User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 10:50:55 AM EDT
[#1]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 10:51:43 AM EDT
[#2]
Smart choice too - those folks in AL would probably shoot under the garage door at intruders. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 10:55:03 AM EDT
[#3]
nope we'd just shoot through the door. bending down takes effort |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 10:59:48 AM EDT
[#4]
You are absolutely correct....but it is also our right to say "fuck you" to them, and refuse to do ANY business with them. It is our right to inform other like minded people of the way they operate. It is then everyones right to decide to continue to patronize them or to also say "fuck you" These pansies won't sell dummy guns, etc to NYS...because they are banned in NYC. If they are too dumb to figure out NYC is just a tiny corner of the state, and there are a whole lot of people they are screwing because of their brain dead lawyers...well....fuck 'em. They can arbitrarily decide who can and cannot buy their products, and the public can decide if they want to spend their money with them. I say screw 'em, I haven't and will not patronize them....ever. And I tell all my friends too.... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 11:13:34 AM EDT
[#5]
If a company is going to do some weasely, spineless thing like that, I suppose it is their prerogative. However, since they are not getting business from those states anyway, why not put something like this in the catalog:
"Due to storm trooper tactics, we regret that we cannot ship to the socialist gulags of New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Massachusetts, and Commiefornia" I damn well know that I would do that if it were my company, simply because such a statement would be guaranteed to get some shitass lawmaker's panties in a bind. Which would of course lead to some sort of public statement (since such animals can't resist the press) about how their state is a beacon of peace and liberty. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 11:18:27 AM EDT
[#6]
Not necessarily. Here's a quote from a letter sent by SG's customer service:
Funny how so many other vendors don't seem to share those "certain concerns," thus those other vendors will get my business. SG will not get a dime from me. [shrug] |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 11:21:11 AM EDT
[#7]
What bothers me the most is this policy stinks of hypocrisy.
Mr. Olen has made millions of dollars and built a successful business selling army surplus goods, camping equipment, ammo and gun related accessories. Folks have spent their hard earned money at his website which caters to the outdoor type people who seem to be his bread and butter clients. He didn't seem to have any problem taking our money when the times where good. Obvioulsy he doesn't need our money, nor deserve it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 11:45:17 AM EDT
[#8]
My letter..
It has recently come to my attention that you refused to ship legal ammunition to a customer in MD because he was too close to D.C. I will boycott your company and tell all the gun owners I know about your spineless policy. I spend upwards of $100 per month on ammunition and will purchase this and other outdoor gear from vendors who support our right to keep and bear arms. Your gutless cowering to the anti-gun lobby, who desires to eliminate all gun ownership in this country, will cost you any potential business from me and other law abiding gun owners who care about our right to keep and bear arms. Regards XXXXX FL USA |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 12:03:50 PM EDT
[#9]
What "fucked up law" is the reason that they will sell to a resident in Cumberland, MD but not Annapolis, MD? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 12:13:18 PM EDT
[#10]
I think they had a hatchet they couldn't ship to NY. They need to fire drunk cousin Fred as their lawyer.
What lawsuits have arisen from ammo shipped to MD? Sounds like a bullshit line. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 12:27:11 PM EDT
[#11]
Then you are as much a part of the problem as they are, |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 12:34:18 PM EDT
[#12]
CheaperThanDirt has a whole lot less made in China shoes, clothing, and furniture in their catalog.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 1:11:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Oooo, burn. Look, I pick my battles and a firearms retailer protecting itself against being sued out of existance does not rate too highly on my letter-writing list. If I were a firearms retailer, I would not do ANY business with CA, IL, DC, NY, MA, or NJ. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 1:18:06 PM EDT
[#14]
How long before VT joins that list as more city folk move up there? You're not exactly living in Texas. VT'll have MA style gun laws within a generation. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 1:31:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Ya! hit those anti-gun states and politicians where it hurts  .
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 4:42:26 PM EDT
[#16]
And we are talking about Maryland, where it is legal to do order ammo through the mail. MD is not DC and SG made this decision based on distance from DC....nothing else. They could easily draw a thirty mile circle around any major city in this country and do the same thing. The question is, do we as gun owners support a company which is glad to take our money but then discriminates against some gun owners based on zip code? |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 4:52:22 PM EDT
[#17]
Have never ordered from them. Almost have a few times. Definately will never order from them now.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 5:35:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Title edited per suggestion. Thanks everyone that has sent e-mails
I understand it's a company policy and they can do whatever they want, in response, I'm free to not buy from them. Just figured others here that had bought from them would like to know about this. Didn't mean to turn us against each other! |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 5:38:55 PM EDT
[#19]
Then what do you think their real reason is? Why on Earth would they want to abandon a particular market unless the potential repercussions (i.e. lawsuits) scare them away? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 6:27:19 PM EDT
[#20]
I wonder how you would feel if the powers that be decided that you should undergo mandatory annual inspections to be sure your firearms are stored safely, you had to have your name published in the paper annually, have a special marking placed on your home, car and wear an identifying patch when CCWing. We either hang together or we hang seperately. S&W saw the light after nearly going bankrupt, now their business is booming under new ownership. What's to say the gun-owning public can't do the same to SG |
||||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 7:28:22 PM EDT
[#21]
E-mail sent, first DC, then MD, then VA. Get behind it guys, let them know.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 7:35:41 PM EDT
[#22]
TBS, I ask again... WHAT LAWS??? He lives in MD, where buying the ammo is 100% legal! How is he responsible for the BS laws passed in a state that he dosen't even fucking live in, and why should he be penalized for them?!?!?!  Sportmans Guide's policy is pure shit, and you know it. Stop flacking for them simply because it's not your ox that's being gored (yet). 
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 7:55:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Since I started this mess, I'll attempt to summarize the issue as I see it and provide a suggested resolution. I'll cross-post this on the Maryland board where this started. And thanks to all for your comments.
On Tuesday, 1/3, I placed an an online order with Sportsmans Guide (SG) for 1000 rounds of Wolf .223 62gr ammo. Later that morning I received an automated response acknowledging the order. Around noon I received another message: Thank you for your recent order #xxxx with us at The Guide. Unfortunately, the following items are restricted to your billing zip code, therefore we can not ship these items to you: 1000RDS .223 62GR FMJ AMMO. I replied, requesting further info on the restriction, to include, if possible, citation to any applicable federal, state. or local statutes. SG replied Wednesday, 1/4, afternoon: Due to the various state, county and municipal laws that exist, we are not always able to comply with each individual guideline. Not all of the restrictions are based on laws on the books, but could be a company decision based on certain concerns. Things such as whether the state law suits pending involving gun owners, recent court decisions that may effect businesses like ours. Finally it may be that the states laws are so vague that they could be interpreted unfavorably in the event a court action was ever involved, and finally as a public held company, we are obligated to safeguard our stockholder's investments. I have spoken with our products department and they said that the major influence in our decision is that it is located too close to the District of Columbia. We apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause you. I replied Thursday evening, politely requesting a reevaluation of the issue. I haven't received a response. In a response to ARFCOM member TallNorton requesting confirmation of the restriction to the Annapolis zip code, SG also noted: Our lawyers have made a decision to place restrictions to protect our company. There have been too many lawsuits regarding the location, and it was a company decision to protect our investors, employees and stockholders. The problem: SG has chosen to restrict ammo sales to a location based solely on what they percieve as the proximity to the District of Columbia, a jurisdiction with very restrictive gun laws. SG does not restrict ammunition sales to the city of Baltimore, Maryland. I think SG has simply handled the issue poorly, first by conveying a subjective policy through their front-line customer service reps, and then not escalating the issue to management, who could properly analyze the issue and then communicate a coherent policy to their customers. Failing to confront the issue has cost them the loyalty and $$ of at least a few good customers. To SG: Send a letter something like this: Dear Sir: Thank you for your letter regarding our restriction on ammunition sales to the Annapolis, Maryland, area. At Sportsmans Guide we strive to provide the finest products and the best customer service available in the sporting goods business. We base our decision on where to sell firearms and ammunition on a few factors: We have an obligation to adhere to an exhaustive number of local, state, and federal laws applicable to our products, and specifically, laws governing the sale of firearms and ammunition. We also have an obligation to our many employees and shareholders to run a profitable business. In recent years lawsuits in a number of states, including the District of Columbia, have resulted in judgments which have bankrupted or nearly bankrupted the manufacturers and suppliers of firearms. Frankly, it keeps many of us awake at night wondering if we'll be next. While we wish to continue supplying these products to our many customers, we've made the business decision to restrict sales to locations we believe involve a great deal of risk to our business. Unfortunately, as you've noted, the restriction may be broader and involve locations such as Annapolis not originally intended to be included in the restriction to the District of Columbia. From our vantage of St. Paul, Minnesota, its often difficult to determine where to draw the line in areas throughout the United States, but I'm writing to let you know we are reviewing our policies to more finely map our restricted areas. We've updated our warning notice on our ammunition order page to clearly state our current restricted shipping zones and policies. Sincerely, SG What we've got here is failure to communicate. (Cool Hand Luke, Paul Newman, 1967) |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 8:05:28 PM EDT
[#24]
this reminds me of the thread on what a bastard clint mckee is because fulton demanded that his lowers be returned from CA. if you owned SG would you risk having your company financially ruined when the DC attorney general comes after and you have to defend yourself in a 3 year court case? nope, didnt think so. MD and DC both have had a field day passing gun laws and suing gun manufacturers. they may be 2 of the most hostile anti-gun places in this country every bit as bad as CA and MA.
i lived in MD for the first 25yrs of my life. i was sick of MD gun polotics. i was sick of the way the Baltimore welfare crowd and the DC area liberal crowd outweighed us rural conservative types. AWBs, waiting periods, integral locks, ballistic fingerprinting. i got tired of it , SO I MOVED. i dont feel sorry for anyone who posts a thread crying about a company that wont ship them ammo, or wont ship them a lower. if you choose to stay in MD (or CA or MA) you have decided that living there is worth abridgement of your rights. you know you live in an anti gun liberal shithole and yet you choose to stay. someone else will ship you ammo but dont fault SG for protecting their company. BTW, since i moved to GA i can concealed carry, i can mail order ammo, i can buy and transfer posession of high cap mags, i can go to a gunshow and walk out with a handgun and the best part....when i get that handgun home i take the little envelope with the fired casing that says "SUBMIT TO MD STATE POLICE" and throw that fucker in the trash. Maryland sucks, vote with your feet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 8:12:08 PM EDT
[#25]
DvlDog: You're right. Life is a bunch of choices and compromises. But that is what you get when is are many lackadaisical gun owners about anti-gun laws. Those folks never think about it until it affects them personally, and by then it is too late to do anything about it. You've got to do something before the laws hit you personally, otherwise the show is pretty much over.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 8:14:08 PM EDT
[#26]
I choose to stay. And fight. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 8:41:39 PM EDT
[#27]
It seems so. There was no logical reason to not sell me what I wanted. NO RESTRICTIONS on anything exist in my state or city. And to not sell to someone in Nevada? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 8:51:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Fear folks, fear. That is what they anit's and libs are using against us. Fear. Emotion is their tool since they can't use hard facts, they are using fear.
I suppose, someone is sitting somehwere and doing the "What if....." thing. What if, someone who lives "near" DC9 but outside the restricted area), orders ammo or what ever (something banned in DC) and then gives it or ordered it for, a friend in DC. Granted, they broke the law, not the mail order.... BUT knowing lawyers, IF they can trace it to SG or any other mail order place, they'll be sued also EVEN though where it was shipped is legal. I can understand why they are doing it..... though I do not agree. CYA.... that's all it is..... edit- I suppose what people mean by change the law is, to get the restrictions removed off of an area. Sometimes easier said then done. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 9:13:03 PM EDT
[#29]
You'd be suprised. When the socialist congressman has to run a pro-gun campaign, I'd say gun rights are pretty safe. Vermont, as a whole, is more like New Hampshire than it is like Massachusetts. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 10:02:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Hey SportsmansGuide 'Lick me Taint',,,,,,I would advise never doing ANY Business wth the FockkTards,Piss on'em,,,,,Been there Done IT F*ckem!,
 SportsmansGuide GFY! you Taint Licker 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/8/2006 4:07:41 AM EDT
[#31]
The great irony in them not shipping to Anne Arundel County (where Annapolis is located) is that AA County has one of the strongest sets of pro-gun politicians in the state.
The other great irony is that they will ship to other locations in MD, with less pro-gun politicians, that are CLOSER to the DC line than here. The third great irony is that MD has a tough law on local pre-emption....meaning that a locaility has a tough time passing a law that is stricter than state law. Yes, attorney general Joe Curran is a bigoted, anti-gun jerk and would like nothing more than to take all gun owners and put them in a camp somewhere. Perhaps when his son-in-law, Martin O'Malley, is Governor this time next year he will get his wish. But for now, SG is wrong in not shipping a legal product to a legal purchaser based merely on account of his zip code. For the record, I would feel the same if they were doing it to fellow gun owners in any state and I would equally vote with my wallet and spend my money elsewhere. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/8/2006 4:57:39 AM EDT
[#32]
Sounds like SPG is still shitting yellow over the "white van" hysteria of a couple years back.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/8/2006 5:04:39 AM EDT
[#33]
Brillo, If you have strong ties or love the state, I can respect that. But places like Maryland and Kalifornia are GONE. Too far gone. You are banging your head against the wall. I did it for 11 years in Maryland, and finally decided it's time to vote with my feet, and take my talent, skills, labor, taxes and life to a Free(R) State. I'm much happier now. But I didn't have strong ties to Maryland either, I'm not from there. Basically, I think IF YOU CAN, everyone should leave these liberal cesspools. You are kidding yourself if you think you can really change it. You are outnumbered, and the divide is getting worse, not better. Better to starve the beast, and strengthen a state that is more like minded. Sometimes the best way to fight is to beat feet and regroup |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/8/2006 5:24:13 AM EDT
[#34]
Which was caused by Chief Moose and County Executive Duncan refusing to accept the eye witness reports to the contrary. They desperately wanted it to be two white guys in a van rather than what was being reported from people who were there. Bushmaster sells lots of ARs here.....seemingly no problem for them. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/8/2006 6:15:10 AM EDT
[#35]
Fight4yourrights reply got me to thinking.
What would/could a city/town do if every single resident, or a very large majority, decide to just up and move? I know that would never happen but, what if? Are there some kind of laws that would prevent that or would the city just be shit out of luck? I know it's off topic from this thread but I had a brain fart and thought I would ask. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/8/2006 6:26:50 AM EDT
[#36]
Totally agree. I lived in Md from 1973 to early 2005. Was fortunate to get free re-lo with a new job closer to family in Fl. Still miss Md folks and landscape. Unfortunate political climate though. Did you see the teary-eyed jackals come out to Annapolis when the Md "Assault Weapon" ban was being pushed ? Disgraceful, disgusting. Moose and Duncan...  Sad, sad, sad..
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/8/2006 8:22:37 AM EDT
[#37]
I've written them a letter and told them that basically they are no friend of gunowners and/or are too easily cowed by their attorneys.
I asked to be disenrolled from the catalog mailings and indicated I would place no future orders with them. The "Contact" link is on the very bottom of their website. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/8/2006 8:43:49 AM EDT
[#38]
Never used them before... definitely not planning on it now. I prefer to support the dealers and industry partners of this forum any day.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/9/2006 5:16:42 AM EDT
[#39]
OK... here's my conversation with customer service.
Note: I did ask brillo for his zip code to get an accurate response... ========================================= ME: Good day, It has come to my attention that you do not ship .223 ammo to Annapolis, MD due to its proximity to DC. Could you please elaborate on this? If I find that you take it upon yourself to police your customers due to your misunderstanding of world law and events, I will cancel all subscriptions to your magazines and cease purchasing from your organization. ========================================= THEM: Thank you for your e-mail. I checked Baltimore and it was not restricted. Send me the zip code in question and I will check it for you. Any further questions please feel free to contact us again. Thanks for shopping The Guide. ========================================= ME: Zip code: 2xxxx Thank you. ========================================= THEM: Thank you for your e-mail. That zip code is restricted. Sorry we are unable to ship to that area. Any further questions please feel free to contact us again. Thanks for shopping The Guide. Enjoy the Outdoors, Customer Service Linda Marie =============================================== ME: Linda, Thank you for your reply. Please pass this along to your management... From this point forward, I will take your magazines and IMMEDIATELY throw them into the trash. Do NOT cancel my subscription. I plan to allow you to waste your money sending me catalogs that I have no intention to purchase from. I feel that if you take it upon yourself to restrict items based on YOUR fears, I will take my time and MONEY to other vendors that respect the right of firearm owners. Cheaper Than Dirt and Ammoman have ZERO issues sending to the zip code in question and others that I am sure you do not ship to. Therefore, THEY will receive my money from this point forward. ============================================ |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/9/2006 6:05:27 AM EDT
[#40]
I received the "we are afraid of litigation" response from their Customer Service.
The way I see it, it is legal for a MD resident to purchase ammo over the internet and have it shipped to them. It is legal for Sportsmans Guide to ship it to them. The transaction is completely legal. The problem that I have with SG on this one is that if you restrict or prohibit an activity that is not illegal, then you are basically infringing on the liberties of individuals. Its kinda like smoking bans. Smoking is perfectly legal but we are finding more and more cities banning a legal activity. As a business with a responsiblity to its shareholders, SG has every right to do so. But they the responsibility of weighing what those actions will eventually cost their company. Ruger and Smith&Wesson have made some hair-brained decisions in the past and only they can say whether those decisions were worth it. Perhaps SG will get enough negative feedback that they will change this policy. Perhaps they will see no substantial loss in revenue and will continue. As a buyer and a gun owner, it pisses me off to see a company voluntarily cave to the antis. I do appreciate their situation and I guess we'll have to see where it goes |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/9/2006 6:33:39 AM EDT
[#41]
Kind of silly to be having a discussion with a customer service clerk (who may not even be an employee) at SG who has no say in the corporate policy of the company.
Write letters to the CEO, CFO and Marketing VP and tell them because of their policy you will no longer purchase anything from their company. If they get enough negative response to their policy they may reconsider it. President, CEO, and Director: Gregory R. Binkley EVP, Finance and Administration, CFO, Secretary, Treasurer,: Charles B. Lingen EVP, Merchandising, Marketing, and Creative Services: John M. Casler Sportsman Guide Inc 411 Farwell Ave., South St. Paul, MN 55075 |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/9/2006 6:44:47 AM EDT
[#42]
Humph.
Compare their "corporate" stance with Ronnie Barrett's line in the sand. I'm sure Barrett's decision not to do business with the PRK had an impact on his profits, but he stood on principle. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/9/2006 8:48:00 AM EDT
[#43]
My last and final dealings with The Sportman's Guide involved ordering ammo for which they quickly took my order. My receipt said the ammo would ship in two months. That was a fact they conveniently left out in the ad. I cancelled the order right away and haven't been back since. My advice would be to forget your order and get it some place else.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/9/2006 11:11:04 AM EDT
[#44]
Too close to CANADA for me to send my AMERICAN dollars to.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/9/2006 11:17:30 AM EDT
[#45]
 |
||
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
