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Quoted: All of the gays I have known tell me they were different from earliest memory, they didn't suddenly decide at 14-15 years of age to be that way.

Can you admit that there is a difference between "feeling different" and "telling your school that you want to be Prom King"?

Quoted: People learn things about themselves and the world at different times, but on average, I'd have to say that concretely determining your own sexual identity is something that most people don't accomplish until they're well into their late twenties...and even then, it's a toss-up.

Please tell me you're not a school teacher or in any other position where adolescents might take your word as truth.

Apeman is a much better tune.


I think Im sophisticated
cos Im living my life like a good homosapien
But all around me everybodys multiplying
Till theyre walking round like flies man
So Im no better than the animals sitting in their cages
In the zoo man
cos compared to the flowers and the birds and the trees
I am an ape man
I think Im so educated and Im so civilized
cos Im a strict vegetarian
But with the over-population and inflation and starvation
And the crazy politicians
I dont feel safe in this world no more
I dont want to die in a nuclear war
I want to sail away to a distant shore and make like an ape man
Im an ape man, Im an ape ape man
Im an ape man Im a king kong man Im ape ape man
Im an ape man
cos compared to the sun that sits in the sky
Compared to the clouds as they roll by
Compared to the bugs and the spiders and flies
I am an ape man
In mans evolution he has created the cities and
The motor traffic rumble, but give me half a chance
And Id be taking off my clothes and living in the jungle
cos the only time that I feel at ease
Is swinging up and down in a coconut tree
Oh what a life of luxury to be like an ape man
Im an ape, Im an ape ape man, Im an ape man
Im a king kong man, Im a voo-doo man
Im an ape man
I look out my window, but I cant see the sky
cos the air pollution is fogging up my eyes
I want to get out of this city alive
And make like an ape man
Come and love me, be my ape man girl
And we will be so happy in my ape man world
Im an ape man, Im an ape ape man, Im an ape man
Im a king kong man, Im a voo-doo man
Im an ape man
Ill be your tarzan, youll be my jane
Ill keep you warm and youll keep me sane
And well sit in the trees and eat bananas all day
Just like an ape man
Im an ape man, Im an ape ape man, Im an ape man
Im a king kong man, Im a voo-doo man
Im an ape man.
I dont feel safe in this world no more
I dont want to die in a nuclear war
I want to sail away to a distant shore
And make like an ape man.

Quoted: Quoted: All of the gays I have known tell me they were different from earliest memory, they didn't suddenly decide at 14-15 years of age to be that way. Can you admit that there is a difference between "feeling different" and "telling your school that you want to be Prom King"?

Yeah, the last one screams, I WANT ATTENTION.

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Quoted: blah blah bah

Tread, it's okay to be heterosexual. I don't think anyone in this thread is trying to tell you otherwise. If you did a little more asking, and little less accusing, you'd probably find we agree on more than you'd expect.

All the same, I don't think that being as impolite as you can manage about an issue as simple as this is a good way to earn brownie points. Unless you've forgotten, we're both human. I'm trying to treat you like one, so could you do me a favor and manage the same?

Until then, I'm not going to brook actual discussion with you.

Quoted: Quoted: I'm sorry. I've never heard that term...social freedom. Can you define that? It's a slightly abstract term that means something along the lines of "guaranteeing a social environment that is free from elements which could disrupt or degrade one's own social development". In other words, it gives you space to be who you want - without being crowded, or crowding anyone else.

Sounds like hippy psycho-babble to me.


The article says its a native of Mexico, so is it an illegal alien in addition to being a transgendered attention whore?

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Quoted: I WANT ATTENTION.

Yes, and what's wrong with that?

Especially when you're trying to get attention because the minority you belong to is routinely persecuted, murdered, and denied equal rights virtually everywhere?

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Quoted: Sounds like hippy psycho-babble to me.

So? The alternative is genocide.

You take your pick.

Quoted: Quoted: Just as soon as they bring God back into the schools and put the Comandments back on the steps of city hall (or where ever that was they made them remove them from) then I'll bite on that. But you already bit on it. We've already agreed that his gender identity is not an issue in the workplace. As for the God/Commandments issue, that's really something different altogether. I don't see how it has anything to do with this discussion, but I am willing to be enlightened.

Well uh no, I didn't agree his gender had nothing to do with it and neither did the people who fired him.  

I understand why you don't see where any of this ties together if you can't see what the CoMMandments and God have to do with it.

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Quoted: Well uh no, I didn't agree his gender had nothing to do with it and neither did the people who fired him.

Then I am completely confused. You said social issues don't matter/belong in the work place.

Just what IS gender identity, if not a social issue?

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I understand why you don't see where any of this ties together if you can't see what the CoMMandments and God have to do with it.

Trashing my ignorance doesn't make me learn. I'm trying to be forthright and explanatory with you, so could you attempt the same for me?

In other words, if I need to learn - then please teach me.

Quoted: Quoted: blah blah bah Tread, it's okay to be heterosexual. I don't think anyone in this thread is trying to tell you otherwise. If you did a little more asking, and little less accusing, you'd probably find we agree on more than you'd expect. All the same, I don't think that being as impolite as you can manage about an issue as simple as this is a good way to earn brownie points. Unless you've forgotten, we're both human. I'm trying to treat you like one, so could you do me a favor and manage the same? Until then, I'm not going to brook actual discussion with you.

Well gee...then YOU get to continue to make ABSOLUTIST type comments about what YOU feel is right and then refuse to respond to my Criticism of said comments.....hmmmm......

C'mon man, if YOU'VE got the superior argument kick my ass with it!?  You must truley believe your position is right (And sustainable) else....what the helll are you talking about?

Go ahead Bro', beat my ass with your logic.

Quoted: Quoted: I'm sorry. I've never heard that term...social freedom. Can you define that? It's a slightly abstract term that means something along the lines of "guaranteeing a social environment that is free from elements which could disrupt or degrade one's own social development". In other words, it gives you space to be who you want - without being crowded, or crowding anyone else.

Catsclaw......"Social freedom" is a nice pc saying substituted for moral relativism.

Quoted: Quoted: Sounds like hippy psycho-babble to me. So? The alternative is genocide. You take your pick.

If those two are the only choices I'll take genocide, thank you.

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Quoted: Go ahead Bro', beat my ass with your logic.

I don't need to.

Tread, your confrontational nature only serves to make your own life uncomfortable. The cruelest thing I could do is simply let you remain as you are.

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Quoted: If those two are the only choices I'll take genocide, thank you.You're welcome, Adolf.

Quoted: Quoted: Go ahead Bro', beat my ass with your logic. I don't need to. Tread, your confrontational nature only serves to make your own life uncomfortable. The cruelest thing I could do is simply let you remain as you are.

Great, refuse to back-up your position....gee....what a "Brilliant" tactic.  Tell ya what kiddo, you get back to me when YOU decide what your sexual orientation is and we'll start from there...MKAY

Quoted: Great, refuse to back-up your position...

For an Internet argument that I'll forget about by next week? I have no regrets.

Quoted: Quoted: Great, refuse to back-up your position... For an Internet argument that I'll forget about by next week? I have no regrets.

Well, I don't make pronouncements about human sexual developement that i'm not able to back-up with facts....Why do you?

Quoted: Quoted: If those two are the only choices I'll take genocide, thank you. You're welcome, Adolf.

An insult from a troll can be considered a compliment

Quoted: An insult from a troll can be considered a compliment

It isn't an insult; you're advocating the extermination of people who are different than you. Adolf is a perfect comparison.

If you're uncomfortable with being compared to Hitler, then don't adopt similar views.

girl or boy it's still fubar

Quoted: Quoted: An insult from a troll can be considered a compliment It isn't an insult; you're advocating the extermination of people who are different than you. Adolf is a perfect comparison. If you're uncomfortable with being compared to Hitler, then don't adopt similar views.

I would have added a "stay in the closet and keep it to yourself option"

Quoted: This would not have been allowed 10yrs ago. This is really messed up.

Her name should be Helena Handbasket....

Quoted: Quoted: I'm sorry. I've never heard that term...social freedom. Can you define that? It's a slightly abstract term that means something along the lines of "guaranteeing a social environment that is free from elements which could disrupt or degrade one's own social development". In other words, it gives you space to be who you want - without being crowded, or crowding anyone else.

In modern use, "social" is a word that negates the historical and traditional meaning of whatever word follows it.

Example: "Social justice" means stealing from those who rightfully earn and possess property and redistributing it to those who have no legal right to it - the diametric opposite of "justice".

"Security" means preparedness and a lack of worries, whereas "Social Security" is a pyramid scheme that is mathematically impossible to provide for the retirement of an entire nation, and will  naturaly bankrupt and destroy the currency of any nation that tries it.

"Science" is a disciplined and rigorous pursuit of models and theories that conform to and predict events in the real world.  "Social Science" is a term for liberal professors with physics-envy to sound more authoritative and respected.  Political science, history, law, international relations, and social policy are NOT sciences, yet are listed as "social sciences" in many school curricula.

In the context above, freedom means the ability to associate with whomever you choose, and like or dislike anyone for any reason.  "Social freedom" is the enforced acceptance of any person, regardless of mental deviance or perverse abnormality, in any public forum by everyone under threat of punishment or legal action.  Advocates of social freedom claim that employers have no right to hire and fire whomever they choose, but rather must have documented evidence of non-performance before a hired hand may be dismissed, quite the opposite of traditional freedom.

ETA:

A long time ago, Marxists learned that when their ideas where translated into language, the leftist utopia did not sound very good.  So instead of saying injustice we have social justice.  Instead of the insecurity of the welfare state, we have social security.  Instead of a Ministry of Propaganda, we have social sciences departments.  And instead of facing the chains of slavery, we face a world of social freedom.

I'm just an uneducated farmer, but two of the same sex animals together and let one of them try to cornhole the other and you got one hell of a fight on your hands. Fences feeders etc. get tore all to pieces from the ass whippen the cornholer gets.

If this was about one of my students, I'd be fully supportive of his goals.


- BG

Well I see that the ignorance still continues. As someone who has counseled many of those classified under the term of  "transgender" you should drop down on your knees and thank God that you weren't given that burden to carry.

I've seen many a family turn their backs on their own children or family members after learning that they are being treated for this condition. One day the parents loved this child and the next they kicked it to the curb. It is the most egregious thing I've every seen one human do to another.

Many things happen in the womb. Proteins,hormones,enzymes come together guided by DNA to create who we are. Problem is there are times when things just don't happen the way they are supposed too. So you get those who are gay, intersexed, transsexual, Hermaphrodites and the many other variations. I've included some numbers so you can see just how often people are born "different". One thing I want you all to understand is that every day children are born who are intersexed/indeterminate genitals. This child is sometimes abandoned by the parents and sometimes the parents put the child through what is basically sex change surgery. The child is surgically turned into a baby girl. Problem is the Childs gender has yet to express itself and quite often the doctors make mistakes resulting in young children with a body that says one thing and a mind that says another. Be thankful you are not in this boat. Now onto those numbers I promised.




Not XX and not XY one in 1,666 births

Klinefelter (XXY) one in 1,000 births

Androgen insensitivity syndrome one in 13,000 births

Partial androgen insensitivity syndrome one in 130,000 births

Classical congenital adrenal hyperplasia one in 13,000 births

Late onset adrenal hyperplasia one in 66 individuals

Vaginal agenesis one in 6,000 births

Ovotestes one in 83,000 births

Idiopathic (no discernable medical cause) one in 110,000 births

Iatrogenic (caused by medical treatment, for instance progestin administered to pregnant mother) no estimate

5 alpha reductase deficiency no estimate

Mixed gonadal dysgenesis no estimate

Complete gonadal dysgenesis one in 150,000 births

Hypospadias (urethral opening in perineum or along penile shaft) one in 2,000 births

Hypospadias (urethral opening between corona and tip of glans penis) one in 770 births

Total number of people whose bodies differ from standard male or female one in 100 births

Total number of people receiving surgery to “normalize” genital appearance one or two in 1,000 births

Quoted: Now onto those numbers I promised....

Source, please.

Quoted: Quoted: Now onto those numbers I promised.... Source, please.

Dreger, Alice Domurat. 1998. Ambiguous Sex—or Ambivalent Medicine? Ethical Issues in the Treatment of Intersexuality. Hastings Center Report, 28, 3: 24-35.

2 Blackless, Melanie, Anthony Charuvastra, Amanda Derryck, Anne Fausto-Sterling, Karl Lauzanne, and Ellen Lee. 2000. How sexually dimorphic are we? Review and synthesis. American Journal of Human Biology 12:151-166.



Intersexed conditions:
The following is a list of disorders of sex development that sometimes involve intersex anatomy.

   * How do I know if I have an intersex condition?
   * 5-alpha reductase deficiency
   * Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS)
   * Aphallia
   * Clitoromegaly (large clitoris)
   * Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (CAH)
   * gonadal dysgenesis (partial & complete)
   * hypospadias
   * I have a line along the underside of my penis
   * Klinefelter Syndrome
   * micropenis
   * mosaicism involving "sex" chromosomes
   * MRKH (Mullerian agenesis; vaginal agenesis; congenital absence of vagina)
   * ovo-testes (formerly called "true hermaphroditism")
   * Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (PAIS)
   * Progestin Induced Virilization
   * Swyer Syndrome
   * Turner Syndrome

Thanks. Any non-Moonbat sources?

(I'm familiar with Ms. Dreger, as well as the Brown U. piece you cited. Those who aren't should peruse www.alicedreger.com .)

Moonbat? IS this because you have the medical knowledge to refute the numbers or is it just ignorance on your part and you just don't want to accept the medical facts in these cases.

What a sad day it is when perversion is promoted, given accolades, and encouraged.

i'm confused is it a she or a he. if a doctor examined this person what gender would they be?

if it's a girl, explain to me why she has to be prom king?

other than being narcissistic and wanting extra attention and the look at me factor.

silly me i say this because well. prom king (male) prom queen (female) lets say she was voted prom queen, to some teen girls thats a big thing. she would be voted queen, and since people know shes (transgerder, gay, he, she, boy, girl) then she would know people accept her, since they voted for her. why the title of prom king.

if you keep telling someone, your special, your special, your special

you can make some one who is self centered and feels entitled.

as for not knowing what gender most people like till their mid to late 20's

DUDE YOUR BUGGING!

oh an this thread is

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/Arch_Angel_02/gaydar.gif

And here you guys thought being gay was hard to swallow......

Oh and welcome MagicPussyCat..

Quoted: What a sad day it is when perversion is promoted, given accolades, and encouraged.

since when are medical conditions considered perversion

Quoted: Moonbat? IS this because you have the medical knowledge to refute the numbers or is it just ignorance on your part and you just don't want to accept the medical facts in these cases.

You posted these "medical facts," not I. I merely asked that you substantiate them by naming your sources. Asking for sources requires no medical knowledge. Nor does being skeptical when your main source, Ms. Dreger, is widely known as having about as much credibility in matters of research, science, medicine and biology as Sarah Brady has in matters of RKBA, gunsmithing and proper defensive shooting stance.

Quoted: Well I see that the ignorance still continues. ... Many things happen in the womb. Proteins,hormones,enzymes come together guided by DNA to create who we are. Problem is there are times when things just don't happen the way they are supposed too. So you get those who are gay, intersexed, transsexual, Hermaphrodites and the many other variations.

Please tell us exactly which medical condition makes someone homosexual.
If you know, you're the only person on Earth.
Please, do tell.

ETA:  And, with which medical medical condition is this student afflicted?

For some reason, I've got a line from Aldo Nova's Fantasy Life running through my head:

"See the men paint their faces and cry,
Like some girl,
It makes you wonder why."

Man! You guys are slipping. Not one person has said:


"I'd hit it!"

FRESNO, Calif

A native of Jalisco, Mexico

so is she illegal on top of being a freak?

Their are some people who have chromosomal defects which make their sex indeterminate at the time of birth. Those cases are extremely rare, and I doubt that this girls chromosomes are screwed up.

Quoted: Quoted: What a sad day it is when perversion is promoted, given accolades, and encouraged. since when are medical conditions considered perversion

So...what you are saying is that  gay/transgender is indeed a defect?