Goddamn roads are FILLED with HD's.  No wonder they are starting not to be able to push more of them out the door.

Just got back from SoCal tonight (drove the Xterra).  99% of the bikes I saw from here to there and back again were HD's.  I counted only a few BMW's a KLR or two a few GoldWings and the expected sportbikes around the urban areas.

The market is well beyond saturated with Hardlys.  I honestly can't see how they keep selling the numbers that they do.

Quoted: I also have met a lot of good people and made friends with other Harley and non-Harley riders. I haven't seen a "lifestyle" of any sorts.

Sorry to say, but most of those 'good people' you're referring to, if you met them at any type of primarily Harley Davidson event, wouldn't bother talking to you if you weren't on a harley.

It's a 'lifestyle' of exclusiveness and elitism.  That said, there are always hard core, no helmet, scraggly, harley riding 'real' bikers that throw me the biggest friendliest, 'hoy brother' wave when passing on opposite sides of the road.  I'm on a Kawasaki ZZR1200 in full helmet and gear.  Some clearly get it.

My Harley is 23 yrs old and still scootin' along smartly. I have no concern for the opinions of others. I ride my Harley because I love my Harley and for no other reason. I don't care if you or anybody else looks at me or my ride. I don't care if you or anybody else gets their panties in a wad because of my drag pipes. Just bear with me a few and I will be gone d'rectly.

ETA: If I see you out on two wheels, I will wave with sincere enthusiasm. Even if you don't.

Quoted: My Harley is 23 yrs old and still scootin' along smartly. I have no concern for the opinions of others. I ride my Harley because I love my Harley and for no other reason. I don't care if you or anybody else looks at me or my ride. I don't care if you or anybody else gets their panties in a wad because of my drag pipes. Just bear with me a few and I will be gone d'rectly. ETA: If I see you out on two wheels, I will wave with sincere enthusiasm. Even if you don't.

Same here I have a Made in America Honda 1995 1100,shadow ace 12 years old and still rumbling down the road.  People look at it and ask if it's a Harley and I say no sir it's an ACE!

I read reviews of the ACE 1100 and most Harley Mag reviewers were pissed off because Honda had damn near cloned a harley!

Except it needed more brake and low end was not to tractor rating.

I say bull 67 cubic inches and 66 ft lbs tork is enough for a cruiser!  50+ horse power is enough.

But did I mention my Honda Was Made in the USA?

I wave low down side to Vespas riding down the road!

Bob

Quoted: Quoted: I also have met a lot of good people and made friends with other Harley and non-Harley riders. I haven't seen a "lifestyle" of any sorts. Sorry to say, but most of those 'good people' you're referring to, if you met them at any type of primarily Harley Davidson event, wouldn't bother talking to you if you weren't on a harley. It's a 'lifestyle' of exclusiveness and elitism.  That said, there are always hard core, no helmet, scraggly, harley riding 'real' bikers that throw me the biggest friendliest, 'hoy brother' wave when passing on opposite sides of the road.  I'm on a Kawasaki ZZR1200 in full helmet and gear.  Some clearly get it.

The man speaks the truth.  I ride a BMW R1200GS, I won't wave to lowly Jap bikes or HD wannabe's either..........Just kidding, I wave to all sportbike and metric cruiser guys, they wave back.  HD guys are assholes.

... three words: Saturation

Quoted: Quoted: As others have stated the Motorcycle fad has ended and the market is totally saturated with barly used bikes for sale. fad hasn't gone away, but the money people used to buy them(credit, home equity) has...

Bingo....People can't use thier house as a ATM machine anymore. I think you will find its not just HD's ether, talk to people who sell boats, ATV's Jet Ski's, they are all down in sales.
Talking money out of your house to buy toys, was never the smartest move anyway. Its gonna be tough on the generation just coming of age, who grew up thinking they are entitled to a Quad, Jet Ski, Harley, and a Hummer, just because they make $15.00 an hr. Reality is a bitch.

Quoted: HD guys are assholes.

Seriously does this suprise anyone?  The huge burst in sales and popularity was a fad. Soon it will be back to just the diehard guys.

HD Really needs to expand a bit and while keeping the tradition stuff develope stuff that is going to penetrate other market segments.

I'd Rather have a Can-Am Spyder...

I live where they have Street Vibrations this week,,,,,,Circus in Motion

I bought a 2006 Harley Davidson 1200 Sportster to save me gas $$$ from driving this:


every day. My Sporty is my daily driver er I mean rider! I put over 15,000 miles on it in the year I have owned it. It is my 1st bike and I love to ride rain or shine and road all last winter even in the snow if I had to.

I did not buy it for a status symbol. I bought it because it it simply the best built bike on the road. I did months of research on every brand before I bought it. Every thing on the bike is ROCK SOLID! No tank wobble and the fenders are strong enough that you can pick up the front and back end without the fenders bending....try that witha jap bike it will break long before you lift even 1/4 the bikes weight.
The fit and finish is near perfect. Everything about the bike screams quality and I have had ZERO warranty claims....not one single problem in 15,000 miles.


Edit to add it saves me about $200 a month in gas money.

Quoted: HD guys are assholes.

Some are assholes like you get with any group. Don't sling us all in there! I wave to any and all bikers and even Vespa riders. I ride a 1200 Sprtster and I'm not an asshole.

Edit for spelling

All show, no go. They are modern antiques, although quite beautiful in appearance, they are way outpriced for machines generating in the 60 hp class. If you want anything more out of them, you have to dump huge amounts of money into them. There are way better performing bikes out there for half the price

I could never figure out why a T-shirt manufacturer got into the motorcycle biz anyway


Harley-Davidsheep slogan is "I got one 'cause it's what all my friends told me to get"

Quoted: Quoted: HD guys are assholes. Some are assholes like you get with any group. Don't sling us all in there! I wave to any and all bikers and even Vespa riders. I ride a 1200 Sprtster and I'm not an asshole. Edit for spelling

Actually I thought it was funny since I ride a BMW, who's riders are notorious for being assholes.

Well when you charge $15000 to $30000 for a bike, who can afford one!!!

I like HD's but, I'll never be able to own one.

Quoted: Quoted: If I had $20,000 I would certainly buy a metric bike, an old vette, a wide screen TV and a new computer before blowing the whole wad on an over priced status symbol. Oh wait! then I couldnt live the "Harley Lifestyle"  could I? what lifestyle? I ride a Harley. I bought a Harley because I like the bikes and the history behind them. Plus, they're GOOD bikes contrary to what others say. I also have met a lot of good people and made friends with other Harley and non-Harley riders. I haven't seen a "lifestyle" of any sorts.

WHAT HISTORY???? When Harley first came out, they were junk!!!! They weren't reliable at all, and no one wanted them!!!


They almost went under! What kind of history is that? A history of making junk?

Quoted: WHAT HISTORY???? When Harley first came out, they were junk!!!! They weren't reliable at all, and no one wanted them!!!

When Harley first came out, it dominated racing in the US. They served in WW1 and WW2. Or maybe you didn't realize they came out before WW1, and not in the early 1970's.

I wish harley would come out with a replica board track racer...

Quoted: Quoted: WHAT HISTORY???? When Harley first came out, they were junk!!!! They weren't reliable at all, and no one wanted them!!! When Harley first came out, it dominated racing in the US. They served in WW1 and WW2.

And the best HD made during WW2 was........A BMW!!!!

Quoted: As others have stated the Motorcycle fad has ended and the market is totally saturated with barly used bikes for sale.

No, the harley fad is cooling off because high dollar loans are harder now for blue collar shmucks to get. Harley-Davidson was built on a business model where Average Working Men got a loan the size normally reserved for boats that upper class people can afford. Joe Blow can afford a $600 a month bike payment when his job in the steel mill offers overtime, but when this slow down he's not as likely to walk into a bank and say "can you give me $36,000 so I can go buy me a new harley?"

Doesn't help Harley much that their marketing and limiting of production to keep prices inflated allowed the Metric cruisers to achieve acceptance (and market share!) to more and more people.

Wouldn't it be sweet if OCC was the death of Harley Davidson?

The Honda, Yamaha etc. Harley clones are finally a competitive choice at a lower cost, and taking sales away from Harley.

Quoted: I like the looks and the sound of Harleys, but when I get my first bike (late bloomer, I'm 38) it'll be either a Gold Wing or a big displacement dual sport.

Hey late bloomer.  

When you are ready, buy yourself a cruiser that is about 5 years old.  Ride it for about a year and a half.  Then buy yourself a wing.  You will be glad you did.  

A wing is a terrible bike to learn on.  I have one.  They are incredibly heavy.

Quoted: H-D is suffering some of the pains the automotive companies felt a few years back, the creeping EPA requirements.  It is causing a limit to the air-cooled engine designs and forcing them to go to water cooled in the near future.

Where did you pull these facts from? Do you see BMW sales decreasing or increasing? Oh, thats right, increasing. And guess what, AIR cooled engines are a major player in their line.

Quoted: Quoted: I like the looks and the sound of Harleys, but when I get my first bike (late bloomer, I'm 38) it'll be either a Gold Wing or a big displacement dual sport. Hey late bloomer.   When you are ready, buy yourself a cruiser that is about 5 years old.  Ride it for about a year and a half.  Then buy yourself a wing.  You will be glad you did.   A wing is a terrible bike to learn on.  I have one.  They are incredibly heavy.

Or... Get both!!  Get a cruiser with a goldwing engine in it!



BTW, my Honda Valkyrie has enough domestic content in it that it has "Made in the USA" stamped on the engine block... I confuse a lot of HD guys with that.

Quoted: Quoted: I also have met a lot of good people and made friends with other Harley and non-Harley riders. I haven't seen a "lifestyle" of any sorts. Sorry to say, but most of those 'good people' you're referring to, if you met them at any type of primarily Harley Davidson event, wouldn't bother talking to you if you weren't on a harley. It's a 'lifestyle' of exclusiveness and elitism.  That said, there are always hard core, no helmet, scraggly, harley riding 'real' bikers that throw me the biggest friendliest, 'hoy brother' wave when passing on opposite sides of the road.  I'm on a Kawasaki ZZR1200 in full helmet and gear.  Some clearly get it.

BINGO!!!  In my yuppified area I was out the other day and my bro was on his Ducati Hypermotard and there were 4 or 5 other bikes out, opposite direction, all H-D maybe one Star, he waved, no one waved back.  

"you are not riding a cruiser so why should I wave at you"  was the message.

Not surprised.  

Pick up a Cycle Trader.  

At least around here, the HD section is about 5 times larger than any single metric bike section, and probably bigger than all of them combined.  

I think the market is saturated.  

I mean, how many overweight, underpowered, ill-handling, chromed-out buckets of bolts can the market support?  

The classifieds here are jammed with low mileage Harleys, the owner's are asking ridiculously high prices for them and wonder why they won't sell, you see the same bikes in the paper now that were for sale 6 months ago.

The JD Power Motorcycle survey gave Harley the lowest ratings in quality of all the major brands sold in the US.  Harley is well known to have some of the best paint and chrome available, but the reliability of the engines and transmissions leave a lot to be desired.

www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/motorcycles

a story from my archives....

As I approached the I-20 merge into I-55south I
noticed a Harley merging in alongside me in the next
lane. I gave him the 2-finger wave of friendliness but
wasn't sure if he returned it, and so I just assumed
he had. (some Harley owners refuse to recognize Hondas
so you never know) Anyways, this was rush hour traffic
after work so I really never thought I'd be getting
into some kind of crazy race with the guy. But I
did... heh heh...

I was trolling along at about 65mph in the left lane.
Harley Guy (HG) changes into my lane and is riding
just behind me. I'm thinking "no big deal" and just
keeping up with traffic, when SUDDENLY HG DECIDES TO
PASS ME LIKE A BAT OUTA HELL!!! I take this
(naturally) as a challenge. It was the equivelant of
him saying "get outa my way you slow riding Honda! -
to me at least. So of course my blood quickens and I
slide in behind him and catch up quickly (as in VERY
quickly). In fact I catch up so fast I can't help but
pass him even though I'm slowing down for traffic when
I do. At that point, I get a better look at the dude.
Open-face helmet with no wind screen, heavy bearded
and long curley hair coming from under the helmet. I
see him get quite agitated as he realizes that I have
accepted his "challenge". He passes me and I quickly
pass him again by passing the car in front of us on
the shoulder. He apparently follows suit as I see him
still behind me in my rearview straining to keep his
head on straight with the (now) 100+mph wind battering
him.

(some explanation may be in order here. my CBR is made
for racing and puts the rider in a forward bent
position for aerodynamic efficiency.. a harley puts
the rider straight up into the wind. so at 100 mph I'm
comfy while he is about to get his helmet blown off)

I get more pissed seeing him coming up behind me and
so decide to take it up another notch. With the heavy
traffic the only way to pass is either on the shoulder
or between cars. I decide on the later option and
split traffic in front of us. Stupid? Probably, but it
worked. I see in my rearview that he is unwilling to
attempt that manuever and so he slowly fades into the
distance. I'm mainly looking for blue lights as I
wonder how the hell this idiot thought he was going to
beat a racing bike on a cruiser anyway. But thankfully
no blue lights and I make it unharrassed.

I was a little let down that it ended so tamely, but
what the heck. I'd have rather have had a nice
straight stretch to play with the guy for awhile.
Maybe next time...


:-)

Quoted: BINGO!!!  In my yuppified area I was out the other day and my bro was on his Ducati Hypermotard and there were 4 or 5 other bikes out, opposite direction, all H-D maybe one Star, he waved, no one waved back.   "you are not riding a cruiser so why should I wave at you"  was the message.

No, you're dead wrong.  The message wasn't "no cruiser, no wave".  The message was, "I'm afraid to take my hand off the bars."

Quoted: The classifieds here are jammed with low mileage Harleys, the owner's are asking ridiculously high prices for them and wonder why they won't sell, you see the same bikes in the paper now that were for sale 6 months ago.

I'm guessing that they will sit on them - convinced of some conspiracy and feeling somehow wronged.

The few people I know with Harkeys have a boatload of money tied up in them - a significant percentage of which is aftermarket mods.

Quoted: I Edit to add it saves me about $200 a month in gas money.

It doesn't make much sense to buy an 8000 machine to maintain, insure, purchase tires (at great expense), and give up the interest/gain on the investment potential to save a whopping 200 dollars a month.

You know that, don't you?

Quoted: Quoted: HD guys are assholes. Some are assholes like you get with any group. Don't sling us all in there! I wave to any and all bikers and even Vespa riders. I ride a 1200 Sprtster and I'm not an asshole. Edit for spelling

Doesn't it irritate you when big twin riders won't wave back?

Quoted: Quoted: BINGO!!!  In my yuppified area I was out the other day and my bro was on his Ducati Hypermotard and there were 4 or 5 other bikes out, opposite direction, all H-D maybe one Star, he waved, no one waved back.   "you are not riding a cruiser so why should I wave at you"  was the message. No, you're dead wrong.  The message wasn't "no cruiser, no wave".  The message was, "I'm afraid to take my hand off the bars."

Is them the same boys that still have their feets on the ground at 35mph after leaving a stop...?

Harley, lifestyle, noisey, overpriced, stuck-up, ramblings again. I don't know if it would be to great to be this target or complete hell at times. Most of these posts are BS, sorry guys, you know who you are.

Tell me if I got this right....

Our economy is in the middle of taking a real nice shit.
People are being very selective in their big-ticket purchases.
Even small ticket items are being eliminated by many (retailers are not looking forward to this x-mas season).
Other big ticket guys (ford, chrysler, list goes on) are just hemorrhaging losses.
Harley & co sees sales drop off a few percent, cuts production and overhead  a couple percent (I'm being too generous) to stay profitable.
People think there is some kind of mystique behind the brand.

Anyone that bought a Harley on credit 5 years ago and took the same in cash, bought HD stock, would have a free bike today. I'd also bet I'll be able to post the same in 5 years. Try that with your SUV. I'm surprised HD marketing hasn't come up with "free motorcycles".

If you didn't guess, I own a HD, havn't driven my car much for 5 years, am happy as a lark saving AND making all kinds of dough and wave at everyone with a big-assed grin - all the time.

It's called smart business. Watch and learn, no mystery here folks.

Quoted: I saw the MSRP on these and lost ALL interest in the motorcycle I wanted.

That's what you are missing-Harley doesn't sell motorcycles. They sell Harleys. If you can separate the two it makes things a little clearer.

Quoted: Quoted: The message was, "I'm afraid to take my hand off the bars." Is them the same boys that still have their feets on the ground at 35mph after leaving a stop...?

Yep.  And they duck walk for 20 yards, stick out a leg when cornering, etc...  

I have been reading this thread with some amusement. Some of you guys are REALLY in the dark ages when it comes to H-D.

I own a after market motorcycle shop where we service Harleys exclusively.

Here's a tip.....Harleys built since 1984 do not leak oil. If it does SOMETHING is wrong.

Jap bikes are NOT cheaper than Harleys, just go to buy parts for your jap bike, they cost as much or more than Harley parts.

I have NO USE for the Motor Company.  they have long ago forgotten who kept them in operation during the rough times when the quality was so bad they could hardly give them away (AMF)

Yup, it costs a lot of money to make your Harley fast. If you want to go fast you DO NOT use any of Harley's screamin eagle crap.

A lot of H-D parts are made in places outside of this country. I see Genuine parts come into my shop from a lot of countries (sad but true)

You say you can't afford a Harley cause they cost too much. I say bullshit. It is a matter of Prioritys. Have you priced a Beemer or Gold Wing lately?

I wave at just about every rider I meet on the road. Some wave back, some do not.
That in itself proves nothing.

I cater to the RUBS and YUPPIE types every day.  some of them, not all, are really good people.

Some of the "hardcore" riders are assholes too.

I ride a Harley because I like it. Not because it is the cool thing to do.

I hope the value of used Harleys drops because then I can buy more of them.

I could go on but I gotta go to work.

'99 ROAD KING 106 H.P.
'04 ELECTRA GLIDE stock
'68 SERVI-CAR stock
'07 STREET BOB wifes bike
'95 SPORTSTER wifes bike
'97 DYNA SUPER GLIDE son's ride
'08 STREET BOB other son's ride
'76 SUPER GLIDE restored- for sale
'07 custom bobber rigid for sale

Quoted: Isn't there a boatload of profit in Harleys?  The last time I saw prices I was surprised that they were as expensive as they were.

There's a boatload of union beneifits and inflated wages in them.  Everytime the union demands more, do you think the company pays it?  Nope.  Those costs are passed on to the consumer.

With technology (and styling) advancing in other companies, the biggest reason to choose a Harley is so you can say, "I have a Harley."

Ditto for the huge assortment of Harley branded misc. merchandise in the lavish dealerships.

I read somewhere that they actually make more $$$ from merchandise than motorcycles.  People are paying big bucks to advertise for them by wearing clothing with the logo.

I'm almost ashamed to admit I own a Harley t-shirt.  

Somebody gave it to my Dad after he got rid of his HDs.  He gave it to me and I like it because it's one of the few non-gun t-shirts I have.  

I have zero interest in owning a HD bike, but I do wear the shirt when I want to blend in with the sheeple.