User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 6:04:59 AM EDT
[#1]
I love how cavalier we are when it comes to advocating death to people we don't like then abortion pops up and people go EVERY LIFE IS PRECIOUS. This place is great.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 6:06:39 AM EDT
[#2]
Not me, dude. Check my post at the bottom of page 2. Let them do it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 6:08:34 AM EDT
[#3]
n/m, i see this has been covered sufficiently.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 6:12:55 AM EDT
[#4]
I think it's obvious far too few abortions are performed in this country.
I say let any woman who wants one get one and give a discount for repeat customers. Doctors should be allowed to perform abortions from neighborhood triage stations out of the back of abortion-mobiles. I don't want idiots and losers being forced to have any more children than those already voluntarily brought into the world. Outlawing abortion will hasten the sinking of the country. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 6:17:43 AM EDT
[#5]
Just to stir the shit a little... As far as I know, abortionists are not regularly drug out and killed while their places of business are burned either. This has happened, what, like once or twice? The Federal Government has probably burned down more buildings then abortion protesters. Of course, most abortion supporters are Liberals who feel obligated to make people think that they are constantly under threat of oppression and death, so they constantly hype a one-time event until you would think that it's a daily event. Meanwhile, the only people under actual oppression are whoever the Liberals hate. Arguably, the "fetus" isn't really capable of living on it's own until it's like 10-15 years old or so. Certainly a newborn baby is completely helpless. So, should the mother be able to kill the kid for any reason she feels like until he's at least 5 or 10 years old? I don't have the answers to it all, but it certainly isn't as simple as "just get out of the way, you idiots!" Incidentally, as far at there being too many kids in the world, there may be too many kids being born to impoverished third-world families, but well-off first-world families are arguably having too few kids. I've seen studies that if current demographic trends continue in Europe, the Europeans will be a minority in their own countries in 50 years or so. I've also seen studies suggesting that Liberals are aborting themselves out of the majority in the country. There's something to think about. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 6:18:46 AM EDT
[#6]
I fully agree. I don't believe in killing the innocent anymore than anyone else..however...a clump of cells does not make a person any more than an egg is a chicken. Want to remove a clump of cells? Go for it. Want to remove a late term CHILD? No. The religious seem to feel a "child" is created the moment the egg meets the sperm. I disagree. It can BECOME a child...it can BECOME a human....but it is NOT a child, nor is it a human. It's a clump of cells. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 6:20:39 AM EDT
[#7]
Same punishment as for regular murder/ infanticide.
Right now we all get shocked and horrified if a woman drowns her 1 year old. However,if she kills her kid in utero at 7 months, it's just a choice,and we applaud it. I wouldn't add any other laws,besides clarifying that a fetus is a child at a given point. Everything else falls into place after that. As to the folks who think capital punishment for abortion is ironic...why? It's no more ironic than capital punishment for a murderer of an infant or a grown person. Don't confuse the "pro-life" position as "pro-every life". Most of us are "pro-innocent life". Otherwise,why the heck would any of us be on a gun board dedicated to talking about killing others in self defense? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 6:46:25 AM EDT
[#8]
Well put. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 6:48:47 AM EDT
[#9]
Just curious, at what point do you believe this "clump of cells" becomes a human/child and why. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 7:04:57 AM EDT
[#10]
What would the punishment be in Texas?
How about Missouri? Wyoming? The LEGAL issue of abortion is a STATES RIGHTS issue. If Roe vs. Wade is ever overturned then abortion law would be detertmined AS IT SHOULD BE by the states. The same rules that apply to GAY MARRIAGE OR CIVIL UNIONS would apply to abortion: Illegal in Texas, legal in Massachussettes. Let the people vote. Liberal communities/states will ALWAYS have abortion, likewise conservatives are just asking for the right to determine what should and shouldn't be illegal in THEIR STATES. Punishment? The punishment should be exactly the same as if I shipped a legal, hi-cap mag from Texas to California, where it would be illegal. Its illegal, but California can't/won't enforce it in Texas (if they ever even found out). When people will cross state lines for abortions there will be NO punishment. Will a Texas officer fly to New York to arrest an M.D. who performed an abortion on a Texas resident? NO. Since people would have easy access to cross state lines for abortions (even continuing states like TX,OK,KA would be a max of 10-12 hours driving) it will drive local demand for abortions down. Prosecuting at the local level will be rare. In those instances its up to the legislature. I believe its murder, but I stress that FEW PROSECUTIONS WILL EVER BE MADE. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 7:12:02 AM EDT
[#11]
nm(these threads are a waste anyway)
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 7:14:59 AM EDT
[#12]
Interesting. I've heard that the lower crime rates accross the nation can be credited to Roe Vs Wade. A lot of those babies would have been born in poverty and poverty breeds crime. A terrible way to fight crime, but you have to give credit where credit is due. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 7:16:12 AM EDT
[#13]
I understand that some people are "selfish" in willing to discard the life of an unborn child for their own convenience, but what about......RAPE VICTIMS?! Something tells me if your wife/sister/daughter/niece were raped and didn't want the child, You'd be singing a different tune. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 7:18:32 AM EDT
[#14]
I'm assuming you read yesterday's Symposium on National Review Online. The consensus was that women shouldn't be punished at all, as they weren't punished prior to Roe. It is doctors who perform it for a living who should be punished.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 7:20:59 AM EDT
[#15]
First, I don't have a wife, I have a husband. Second, Rodent was talking about illegal, aka "for convenience", abortions. Very few advocate outlawing abortions in the cases of rape/incest/life of mother situations. FWIW if it were my daughter, she wouldn't have to worry about it because she'd have shot the rapist. I'm raising her right.  |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 7:23:44 AM EDT
[#16]
+1 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 7:29:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Before abortion was legal, plenty were performed in hospital operating rooms under the guise of being a D&C.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 7:36:57 AM EDT
[#18]
Sorry, Bubbles, I meant to pose that statement to our Male ARFCOMers. However, your point is valid and well taken. +1 on training your daughter. |
||||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 7:46:42 AM EDT
[#19]
At what point does that "clump of cells" become a baby Enlighten us in your expert medical oppinion... It either is or it ain't. A baby is a baby. You can't put a specific date/time on when the "clump of cells" becomes a baby and you know it. Either way, my basic problem with Abortion is that it punishes the baby for the actions of the mother/father. It is not the fault of the baby that mommy got pregnant and yet it is the baby that dies violently as a result. We shouldn't be killing the baby for the actions of the mother. That just ain't right. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 7:48:34 AM EDT
[#20]
6 months - 1 year in prison.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 7:50:43 AM EDT
[#21]
Agreed. I personally believe that the second the sperm joins with the egg, that's a life right there. Naturally it may have something to do with my religious...ness (religiosity?  ) but that's what I think.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 7:53:11 AM EDT
[#22]
Guilty, your honor. 
|
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 7:55:30 AM EDT
[#23]
let me just add that the "pro life" and "pro choice" labels are silly.
I am very anti murder of any form, I have no problem with killing however. Abortion is in effect the worst form of murder: It is premeditated always It is done for selfish reasons always It is never done for the health of the mother* It is done against the most defenseless of victims It boggles my mind how people can justify it because they can't see the baby being murdered * there are some sitautions where you have to opt for the early delivery of a baby or an emergency c-section to safe a life, where the odds for the baby are not good, but you are not intentionly murdering a babay |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:03:43 AM EDT
[#24]
Are the one third of all fetuses that naturally abort also murder in your mind? if not, why not? I am personally boggled by the people who think a few cells constiutute a viable person. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:04:20 AM EDT
[#25]
Deadly pro-abortion violence has been reported at least since 1965 and is escalating rapidly, with an incredible 269 homicides and other killings committed in just the last six years (since 2000). 2005 was the bloodiest year, with pro-abortionists murdering 77 people, including 28 pregnant women (and their 28 wanted preborn babies), two baby boys, one little boy and five little girls, four men and two women, and seven other wanted preborn babies. The pro-abortionists almost matched this bloody slaughter in 2002, with 58 deaths, and in 2003, with 53 deaths. In fact, pro-abortionists have averaged more murders per year since 1967 (that’s 39 years in a row) than so-called “pro-lifers” have in the history of the entire conflict over abortion! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:05:28 AM EDT
[#26]
As a cop you don't know the difference between a natural death and a death caused by human action? 
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:06:05 AM EDT
[#27]
Wow, what a pathetic piece of opinion. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:07:45 AM EDT
[#28]
Holy lame strawman Is homicide different than death by illness...... lame and pathetic I enjoy conversing with you other topics and quite frankly you are smarter than that to compare events that happen vs events that are planned and occur with the knowledge that death of "the clump of cells" will occur |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:08:50 AM EDT
[#29]
-1  That makes absolutely no fucking sense. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:10:12 AM EDT
[#30]
Sterilization.
She had a chance to reproduce, she chose to kill her baby instead. Why would society let her kill again when she obviously doesn't want children? You don't even have to make abortion a crime. Just make it mandatory that any woman choosing to have an abortion must be sterilized. I think it makes perfect sense. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:11:35 AM EDT
[#31]
Its not a strawman. How exactly is one event any different than the other? The religious types would have you believe that at the moment of conception the cells get a "soul", and thats the basis for much of their abortion opposition......given that a third of those fertilized cells self-abort without any say-so from us, thats a lot of weasted 'souls". So, once again, how is one any different than the other? Do you really see a few cells a couple of weeks old to be a "person"? Because I don't. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:11:38 AM EDT
[#32]
I imagine that the penalties would all be targeted at the practitioner, not the patient.
I didn't vote in the poll, because it'll never happen. Ziti is correct - the Dems should be anti-abortion, they are killing off future Dems. By the same logic, the GOP won't ever outlaw it. They'll talk big and milk it for as much political capitol as they can, but they'll never actually outlaw it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:11:40 AM EDT
[#33]
They should get the same punishment that the men should get who walk away from the impregnated female.  Sorry...but it took 2 to make it. If one can easily walk away, why shouldn't the other? The reason we have legal abortions is because (you excluded, Rodent) many men do not live up to their financial (never mind emotional) responsibilities as a father. Until the day comes that we have no more "deadbeat dads" and there are no more "welfare children," I think abortion will remain legal, regardless of the moral implications. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:13:49 AM EDT
[#34]
Why? What if the father didn't want her to have an abortion, but she chose to have one anyway? What if the father didn't even know that the woman was pregnant because the woman decided to have an abortion without telling him? That happens alot. More often than most of the other circumstances. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:14:16 AM EDT
[#35]
Thread is TLDR.
In my opinion, the whole uproar over abortion is because of a difference in peoples stances on when something is declared human. In the event abortion is made a crime, it will probably be because the stance that humanity begins at conception has won out. Thus the logical answer is that abortion would be considered the murder of a rather tiny human being, and would carry with it penalties similar to first degree murder. Abortion being somewhat premeditated, and all. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:15:34 AM EDT
[#36]
+1 Some folks just don't get it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:15:51 AM EDT
[#37]
tc, come on The basis for all crimes against the person INTENT and ACTIONS that result in death vs illness |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:19:17 AM EDT
[#38]
First, "Religious" people do not have the monopoly on valuing human life. What do illness and the intentional murdering of a unborn child have to do with one another? Just what the hell are you trying to say? |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:21:20 AM EDT
[#39]
Bull! The responsibility to prevent an unwanted pregnancy rest upon BOTH their shoulders. Also, the fact is that the ONLY 100% foolproof method of BC is abstinence. That means that if you bed a woman, even if you are using BC, know that particular 30 minutes of sex could lead to a lifetime committment. If you are unwilling to accept that possibility, then don't have sex. Considering how many "I've banged more women than Wilt Chamberlin," posts I've read Yes, sex is fun...but irresponsible sex should not be rewarded. To either gender. I don't believe in abortion as a method of birth control. I don't. But I also don't believe men should be allowed to walk away scot free, either. Abortion merely levels the playing field. If anyone has a better way to do that, I'm sure society would embrace it. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:23:09 AM EDT
[#40]
And a woman who allows a man to impregnate her bears no responsibility.? Ultimately, she bears all responsibility. Do not want a child, do not open your legs. This world was not created with complete fairness in mind. A man and a woman have distinct roles in life. Simple fact of life. Even your "intellectual' mind cannot get beyond that. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:39:11 AM EDT
[#41]
Not really. I only tolerate the two I have because I have to. In other news...I now understand your TRUE motive for posting in this thread...and it ain't gonna work.  |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:42:49 AM EDT
[#42]
Yup, won't be baited into an argument over abortion by an "innocent" poll or question. Nice try Rodent
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:44:06 AM EDT
[#43]
Just being socially responsible. If your lubricated buttocks saves just ONE CHILD it will all have been worth it. I have a dream.
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:52:01 AM EDT
[#44]
See my post on the previous page. Liberals will ALWAYS have access to abortion. Just like alcoholics had access to booze during prohibition. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:52:49 AM EDT
[#45]
So because a crime is hard to prosecute,we should not make it a crime? That's very odd reasoning. That's like saying we should just make murder legal because so many people are getting killed anyway. Hey,we wouldn't want people to be murdering folks in back alleys or anything,so lets just keep it out in the open! You ban things so you can prosecute the people that do it because the behavior itself is considered evil. Murder laws aren't there to save lives,they're there to allow a civilized means to take murderers off the streets/out of the world. As a participant in a gun forum,you should know better than to assert that just passing a law would "prevent crime". |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:55:28 AM EDT
[#46]
Very wise, I totally agree. Oh, wait, you were trying to be witty...... sorry, missed that. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:59:08 AM EDT
[#47]
Don't like robberies or murders ? Don't get robbed or murdered then. You are forgeting about the innocent baby through no choice of his/her own, brutally murdered. I'm not sure how the woman should be punished. Its a tough call, on one hand it should have a penalty, on the other I'm not sure they should have their whole lives ruined for it. I can see how it would be easy for a woman to get pressured into it. The doctor that did the abortion though, execute him after a fair trial. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:59:29 AM EDT
[#48]
By your logic then, men should have veto power in the decision of an abortion. After all, it was a consensual act that both bear responsibility for the creation of the child. Custody decisions should also never favor the woman like they currently are. I hardly doubt you would want to "man up" to that. You might believe we live in a country where there are no legal distinctions between the sexes, but you would be wrong. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 9:00:12 AM EDT
[#49]
I kinda see where you are coming from about the woman, but what about the baby ? He/she doesn't get any choice. If you don't want to get pregnant, don't have sex. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2007 9:01:42 AM EDT
[#50]
Let the states who make it illegal decide.
I just don't want it thought as a constitutional right. And, fuck it. You want to call it murder, well man up and put the abortionist and the woman on trial as such. I would be happy with irreversible sterilzation for both the woman and the person performing the abortion. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
)