Quoted: I tend to think that sex is not just a menu of acts or positions, its supposed to be a mutually enjoyable act of intimacy.

Not to bring evolution into everything, but it DOES flavor everything people beleive.

Often, evolutionists will tell me love is nothing more than an intricate set of chemical reactions.

As such, its no surprise to me an evolutionists would also beelive sex is little more than a menu of personal gratification.

Quoted: No, dude.Marriage PROHIBITS going outside the marriage to spice things up.

Tell that to all the couples who Do go outside the marriage.I was responding to a comment that said you had to go outside the marriage to spice things up.Thats not the case; plenty of couples cure the same olds same olds by talking things out and trying new things that maybe they haven't tried before in years of marriage.

So if my wife said "Gee honey, I'd like to get gang banged by the membership of the local Golds Gym" that I'm supposed to "listen without judgment" in order to save my marriage? Dude, put down the bong.

Well, as they thread starter has shown, thats exactly what some people are into,and more than you realize. I am not saying that YOU have to agree if your wife says that; you should have open enough communication that she is comfortable expressing what she wants or objects to, and you as well to her. The reality is that couples grow at different rates,in different directions and different interests,and the person you married is not the same person who might be across the table from you today 20 or 25 years later. Couples have to be able to communicate to express where their interests are NOW in the relationship; the inability to do so is why you see so many couples splitting up...because they aren't getting what interests them now out of their current relationship.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Anything involving more than 2 guys violates the One Penis Rule! I think you need to re-check your math. One Penis rule defined.  When more than One Penis is involved in a sex act. Violations are as follows: Male,male,female 3 some Any sex act involving 2 males by themselves. Male,Female,Male,Female 4 some....et al. So in this case 2 guys involved means the One Penis Rule was violated.....You sir need to go back to Kindergarten!

You said "anything involving more than 2 guys violates the one penis rule."
You meant "anything involving more than 1 guy violates the one penis rule."
Unless one guy is a unich.

Quoted: Quoted: No, dude.Marriage PROHIBITS going outside the marriage to spice things up. Tell that to all the couples who Do go outside the marriage.I was responding to a comment that said you had to go outside the marriage to spice things up.Thats not the case; plenty of couples cure the same olds same olds by talking things out and trying new things that maybe they haven't tried before in years of marriage.

INSIDE the marriage (which excludes porn) I am OK with most anything. I agree innovation and experimentation - with the above exclusions - is good.

Well, as they thread starter has shown, thats exactly what some people are into,and more than you realize. I am not saying that YOU have to agree if your wife says that; you should have open enough communication that she is comfortable expressing what she wants or objects to, and you as well to her. The reality is that couples grow at different rates,in different directions and different interests,and the person you married is not the same person who might be across the table from you today 20 or 25 years later. Couples have to be able to communicate to express where their interests are NOW in the relationship; the inability to do so is why you see so many couples splitting up...because they aren't getting what interests them now out of their current relationship.

I agree with communication.

But to me, IF EVER the wife (or husband)  communicates a desire to nail someone other than their spouse, the marriage is in serious trouble and "judgment"  could and should happen quick, fast and in a hurry if they have any hope of  saving the marraige.

This has the makings of a good "Tales from the Podunk Patrol"...

Quoted: Communication is good, but up to a point.   Part of the marriage partnership is recognition that there are things you don't ask.  Period.  Your spouse is ENTITLED to listen WITH JUDGEMENT, and to terminate your ass with extreme prejudice if you ask the spouse to do things that cross the line. I tend to think that sex is not just a menu of acts or positions, its supposed to be a mutually enjoyable act of intimacy.   And there are some requests, even those not involving other people, which your partner might RIGHTLY consider degrading or disgusting.   And part of having a successful relationship is knowing when _NOT_ to go there.   Especially in this day and age where everyone pretty much tries things on for size and "kicks the tires" during the dating process, neither partner should expect the other to do things they outright hate just to make the other partner happy just because they're now married.

I don't believe that. There has to be a way for anything to be on the table for dicussion without judgement; once the partner raises objections, then both people have to respect those boundries.No one should do anything they hate to make the other happy; it has to be by mutual agreement.

Years after I moved from my old neighborhood,some old neighbors of ours told us that the couples from four houses all around us-people we thought we knew well-were swinging back then.  I had no idea,but I was also a bit hurt that they didn't ask us-as in *what's wrong with ME?*h.gif

Why do people equate sex with love?  Sex is an act, love is a developing relationship.

Sex is a fun, enjoyable activity - love doesn't need to be part of the equasion. One night stands are only an example of the activity. When a guy tells me they need to be in love with a woman to enjoy the intimacy, I only have one question - WHY??!!!  Who cares about love when you're looking for sex. If you want to marry the person, fine, go ahead and marry them. If you "WANT" to have sex, just go ahead and enjoy it!

Don't quote me any scripture because GOD created sex for mankind and made it an enjoyable activity. Don't quote me about premarital, fornication, sin, whatever crap because men like me don't buy into that mindset. Sex is sex, love is love.

Quoted: Years after I moved from my old neighborhood,some old neighbors of ours told us that the couples from four houses all around us-people we thought we knew well-were swinging back then.  I had no idea,but I was also a bit hurt that they didn't ask us-as in *what's wrong with ME?*

Maybe you made your values clear. Which would be a huge compliment IMO.

Just found out, a couple who is friends of ours were involved in a foursome over the weekend

I hope they were talking about golf.  

Quoted: Quoted: Communication is good, but up to a point.   Part of the marriage partnership is recognition that there are things you don't ask.  Period.  Your spouse is ENTITLED to listen WITH JUDGEMENT, and to terminate your ass with extreme prejudice if you ask the spouse to do things that cross the line. I tend to think that sex is not just a menu of acts or positions, its supposed to be a mutually enjoyable act of intimacy.   And there are some requests, even those not involving other people, which your partner might RIGHTLY consider degrading or disgusting.   And part of having a successful relationship is knowing when _NOT_ to go there.   Especially in this day and age where everyone pretty much tries things on for size and "kicks the tires" during the dating process, neither partner should expect the other to do things they outright hate just to make the other partner happy just because they're now married.       I don't believe that.There has to be a way for anything to be on the table for dicussion without judgement; once the partner raises objections, then both people have to respect those boundries.No one should do anything they hate to make the other happy; it has to be by mutual agreement.

Horseshit moral relativism.

Quoted: Why do people equate sex with love?  Sex is an act, love is a developing relationship. Sex is a fun, enjoyable activity - love doesn't need to be part of the equasion. One night stands are only an example of the activity. When a guy tells me they need to be in love with a woman to enjoy the intimacy, I only have one question - WHY??!!!  Who cares about love when you're looking for sex. If you want to marry the person, fine, go ahead and marry them. If you "WANT" to have sex, just go ahead and enjoy it! Don't quote me any scripture because GOD created sex for mankind and made it an enjoyable activity. Don't quote me about premarital, fornication, sin, whatever crap because men like me don't buy into that mindset. Sex is sex, love is love.

Dude, I think you're posting in the wrong thread.  

The discussion in the last couple of pages has centered on what happens after you have chosen a spouse, walked up the aisle and made some vows before god and man, including the vow to foresake all others.

Hump all ya want as a single feller.

Quoted: There has to be a way for anything to be on the table for dicussion without judgement

Why?

Maybe you should define what you mean by "judgment"

Even so, why does my wife need to let me communicate my sex fantasies with the local high school cheerleader squads of the eight closest high schools?

Why is it NOT SOLELY my responsibility to get rid of such fantasies?

(admittedly I am using hyperbole, but the general point remains)

Quoted:

Just found out, a couple who is friends of ours were involved in a foursome over the weekend



So what?

DON'T EVEN ask what we did for New Years Eve.....

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sounds like she was testing the waters The water is cold around here. (voice from the next urinal) "and deep" (voice from the other side)  These pipes are small too.

Y'all keep your urinal fettishes to yourselves.

That's awsome, don't waste time bragging about it on the internet schedule the next one and join.

Quoted: Quoted: Been there and done that, it is overated imo. Is there anything you won't hump at least once for the 'experience'? ANdy

Andy, you logged into "Arfcom."

Please pay attention.

Quoted: Quoted: I tend to think that sex is not just a menu of acts or positions, its supposed to be a mutually enjoyable act of intimacy.       Not to bring evolution into everything, but it DOES flavor everything people beleive. Often, evolutionists will tell me love is nothing more than an intricate set of chemical reactions. As such, its no surprise to me an evolutionists would also beelive sex is little more than a menu of personal gratification.

You can have sex with anyone at the drop of a hat, but intimacy takes much, much longer.

Quoted: Why? Maybe you should define what you mean by "judgment" Even so, why does my wife need to let me communicate my sex fantasies with the local high school cheerleader squads of the eight closest high schools? Why is it NOT SOLELY my responsibility to get rid of such fantasies? (admittedly I am using hyperbole, but the general point remains)

Everyones different, but I doubt that if you "had" such fantasies that they would just "go away".Besides, there might be some way she could use those fantasies within the relationship, such as dressing up as a cheerleader for you,if that was your thing ( to use your example). Without you talking through that stuff, you aren't going to know what makes each other tick.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I tend to think that sex is not just a menu of acts or positions, its supposed to be a mutually enjoyable act of intimacy.       Not to bring evolution into everything, but it DOES flavor everything people beleive. Often, evolutionists will tell me love is nothing more than an intricate set of chemical reactions. As such, its no surprise to me an evolutionists would also beelive sex is little more than a menu of personal gratification. You can have sex with anyone at the drop of a hat, but intimacy takes much, much longer.

Is that kinda like micro evolution vs. macro evolution?  

The point I am making is the degeneration of our attitudes toward sex seem related to our attitudes toward the nature of man.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Anything involving more than 2 guys violates the One Penis Rule! I think you need to re-check your math. One Penis rule defined.  When more than One Penis is involved in a sex act. Violations are as follows: Male,male,female 3 some Any sex act involving 2 males by themselves. Male,Female,Male,Female 4 some....et al. So in this case 2 guys involved means the One Penis Rule was violated.....You sir need to go back to Kindergarten!

It does say "ANYTHING INVOLVING MORE THAN......."
I think he must have meant the 2 penis rule maybe???
Because he is definatley saying 2 is ok.... 3 is not... IMHO
LMAO

Quoted: In your title you say "Friend of Ours" define Ours.  "Ours" as in you and Mrs Bama-Shooter or "Ours" ARFCOM Member?

Looking for contact info are ya
J/k! Couldnt resist!

Quoted: Couples who go that far for "fun" don't stay together. Chaos is addictive.

I've known several couples who had "open" marriages of one form or another.

One was just pathetic.  Total sham marriage.  They are no longer married.  All it did was put off the inevitable.  The only reason he went along with it was so that he wouldn't be "left out".  That strategy didn't work.  She apparently had more energy than he did.  She used to have some semblance of a supervisory relationship with my wife, and would always use undue influence to get my wife to go clubbing.

One time, she called my cell to ask if I could take her husband to run some errands on a Saturday.  When I stopped in front of their house to pick him up, she came out instead (not wearing much; no bra, either).  He was "busy" (found out later, from him, that he was out of town), so she had to go instead.  I all of a sudden remembered I'd forgotten my "wallet," so we had to run back by my house (my "wallet" was, in actuality, a mini cassette recorder).  It was vital because, after I didn't take the bait, the nutjob later mentioned offhand to my wife that I'd made advances on her.

Another couple *swear* that it is just "a step above" looking/ogling.  They insist their marriage is strong enough so that it's not an issue.  Time shall tell (in that respect, not much different from any marriage/relationship these days, sadly enough).

The other couple, I only know the guy.  His wife is hot (I've only seen pics.... alas, only PG pics ), but a perfectly neutral observer would say that he is the better-looking of the two.  He used to pull all kinds of tail in college.  He says his wife is fine with their extracurricular lifestyle, so long as it's not one-sided.  I have seen him turn down tail the two times I've seen him since we've graduated.  Guess he wants to keep the wife "happy" and into the lifestyle.

I can't say that I understand it, but from a sociological perspective, I'd be lying to say it doesn't interest me.  FWIW, there is a [scholarly] book from the 70's called "Threesome" or something like that.  I read the first few chapters for a report I wrote in college.  Always wanted to finish reading it, but it's out of print.

ETA: Just found the book in my library: "Threesomes : studies in sex, power, and intimacy," by Arno Karlen.  ISBN: 0688065368.

Quoted: Everyones different, but I doubt that if you "had" such fantasies that they would just "go away".Besides, there might be some way she could use those fantasies within the relationship, such as dressing up as a cheerleader for you,if that was your thing ( to use your example). Without you talking through that stuff, you aren't going to know what makes each other tick.

The question is "is it good for the marriage to indulge and play off such fantasies, since at their root, they indulge in the thought that that soimeone other than your wife is giving you pleasure?"

While such fantasies won't just "go away" I DO believe as a man I am in control of my own mind and can CHOOSE to find fantasies that involve my wife playing the starring role in our sex life, starring as "Herself."

Quoted: Quoted: Sounds like she was testing the waters The water is cold around here.

Beware of shrinkage!

Originally Posted By : Quoted: Why? Maybe you should define what you mean by "judgment" Even so, why does my wife need to let me communicate my sex fantasies with the local high school cheerleader squads of the eight closest high schools? Why is it NOT SOLELY my responsibility to get rid of such fantasies? (admittedly I am using hyperbole, but the general point remains) Everyones different, but I doubt that if you "had" such fantasies that they would just "go away".Besides, there might be some way she could use those fantasies within the relationship, such as dressing up as a cheerleader for you,if that was your thing ( to use your example). Without you talking through that stuff, you aren't going to know what makes each other tick.

tc556guy:  Let me ask you something.

Studies show that a LARGE number of women have been sexually assaulted, raped, or some such during their lives.   The studies also show that these women often will NOT disclose this experience to dating partners, and the result is that a lot of husbands don't even know their wife was raped before.

THAT BEING THE CASE, do you really believe that its a good and appropriate thing to lay some sort of twisted "rape" fantasy on the table to your spouse?   To expect it to be seriously considered "without judgement?   Is that a good relationship, or would someone cross a line by telling their wife that?  

Because in my view, it would be way out of line EVEN IF there's no history of rape in the woman's past.   I think my example is an extreme one, but there are some requests that can't even be mentioned without seriously degrading the other partner.   Swinging, and rape role play would be good examples.

I think you err when you take the accolades of good open communication in a marriage and extend them to the point of absurdity.   Good communication also means knowing when to "shut the fuck up."  

Quoted: [The question is "is it good for the marriage to indulge and play off such fantasies, since at their root, they indulge in the thought that that soimeone other than your wife is giving you pleasure?" While such fantasies won't just "go away" I DO believe as a man I am in control of my own mind and can CHOOSE to find fantasies that involve my wife playing the starring role in our sex life, starring as "Herself."

Only the partners inside the relationship can answer what works for them. Everyone is different. Thats why I said everyone has different comfort zones.

I hate golf.

Quoted: Anything involving more than 2 guys violates the One Penis Rule!

Ya gotta explain to me how this works.

More than two guys is a violation of the one penis rule.  
Two guys is not a violation of the one penis rule.
Less than two guys is not a violation of the one penis rule.

So what do you do if you violate the one penis rule, go back 20 yards and drop-kick?

We already may have a Top Ten Thread of the Year!

Slow down guys, the year's only 3 days old...  

What with the funny subject matter, and then XDBACKUPGUN adding his two naughty bits...

Quoted: Quoted: Been there and done that, it is overated imo. Is there anything you won't hump at least once for the 'experience'? ANdy

So, when ya visiting this side of the pond?

Quoted: dammit we asked you not to tell anyone!

I was waiting for that!

Quoted: Quoted: [The question is "is it good for the marriage to indulge and play off such fantasies, since at their root, they indulge in the thought that that soimeone other than your wife is giving you pleasure?" While such fantasies won't just "go away" I DO believe as a man I am in control of my own mind and can CHOOSE to find fantasies that involve my wife playing the starring role in our sex life, starring as "Herself." Only the partners inside the relationship can answer what works for them. Everyone is different. Thats why I said everyone has different comfort zones.

Lemme guess - you don't beelive in absolutes that would require you to change your behavior, do you?

You belive its absolutely wrong for someone to murder you and steal your guns, but any absolutes that would require anything of you, you rationalize (and I use that word very loosely) away.

Quoted: Lemme guess - you don't believe in absolutes that would require you to change your behavior, do you? You belive its absolutely wrong for someone to murder you and steal your guns, but any absolutes that would require anything of you, you rationalize (and I use that word very loosely) away.

Absolutes such as ..what..let me guess..some sort of religious edict against whatever behavior is being discussed? No,I don't believe in that.

I've seen at least a dozen Jerry Springer shows that says the marriage wont work in the long run.

So was it a full blown wife swap or did they just all have sex in the same room?

A LOT of couples define group sex by how many are in the room. Often the only thing that comes close to having sex with the other couple is the wives kissing each other naked.

I could be down for that. I could never get into a wife swap, I don't want some dudes schlong near my wife.

What's the matter with your wife dressing up like a cheerleader?

Quoted: What's the matter with your wife dressing up like a cheerleader?

Its rooted in a lie - that my wife is a cheerleader.

She isn't.

She's a beautiful person and able to stimulate me IN WHO SHE IS - NOT who I fantasize I wish she was.

Its utilizing SOMEONE ELSE NOT MY WIFE to get me stimulated.

Member back in the day when I 'splained to you the REAL beauty of sex was NOT the "what" but the "who."

Telling your wife to dress up as a cheerleader is like telling her to wear a Brittany Spears mask, or some other twisted appraoch. It tells her who she is is NOT good enuf. She has to be something else for you to get a rise.

Its little different than having a "hand maid" get me hard so I can poke my wife.

I'd be willing to wager such a request is near the beginning of every marriage that ends up in trouble.

I've seen at least a dozen Jerry Springer shows that says the marriage wont work in the long run.
(OOPS... MISSED THE QUOTE BUTTON)

 Not sure about that. I think the couple has to have a certain mind set. I have a couple of friends that trade wives for a night or weekend. They have been married for 22 years, and 23 years. They both get along great. They feel that it elliminates the need to have an affair that some get. I really don't think that they'll be getting devorced anytime soon. Two each their own. Not sure if I would feel that comfortable doing it. Wouldn't mind some FFM thing... But, that's not happening either... lol lol lol

Where can I get my G/F a Brittany Spears mask?

Quoted: Where can I get my G/F a Brittany Spears mask?

Not sure, but you just can go ahead and call her the EX if you ask her to wear it.

Quoted: Quoted: What's the matter with your wife dressing up like a cheerleader? Its rooted in a lie - that my wife is a cheerleader.

G-man,no offense, but its clear that you are into  strictly vanilla sex.Thats fine if thats what works for you and your wife; thats where your limits are. It doesn't work for everyone,nor does that mean that those relationships are on the rocks or headed to divorce court. Different things appeal to different people.

Quoted: Quoted: What's the matter with your wife dressing up like a cheerleader? Its rooted in a lie - that my wife is a cheerleader. She isn't. She's a beautiful person and able to stimulate me IN WHO SHE IS - NOT who I fantasize I wish she was. Its utilizing SOMEONE ELSE NOT MY WIFE to get me stimulated. Member back in the day when I 'splained to you the REAL beauty of sex was NOT the "what" but the "who." Telling your wife to dress up as a cheerleader is like telling her to wear a Brittany Spears mask, or some other twisted appraoch. It tells her who she is is NOT good enuf. She has to be something else for you to get a rise. Its little different than having a "hand maid" get me hard so I can poke my wife. I'd be willing to wager such a request is near the beginning of every marriage that ends up in trouble.

Bud, my wife isn't a runway queen for Victoria's Secret but that never stopped me from asking her to wear sexy nighties.

Quoted: G-man,no offense, but its clear that you are into  strictly vanilla sex.Thats fine if thats what works for you and your wife; thats where your limits are. It doesn't work for everyone,nor does that mean that those relationships are on the rocks or headed to divorce court. Different things appeal to different people.

Well, we'd have to define vanilla sex. Like I said, most ANYTHING with my wife (excluding porn) is fair territory.

Again, we get back to the concept of absolutes.

LOTS of things "work" for me, and I'm NOT saying I wouldn't enjoy pr0n, or cheerleader outfits, or threesomes.

Its just NO ONE really "needs" those things. They tell themselves they do, but they don't.

And I'd be willing to bet (actually its sociologically documented) such behavior is a MAJOR indicator in failed marriages. Can SOME survive it? Sure.

Most can't. And that is beyond dispute.

Quoted: Quoted: Just found out, a couple who is friends of ours were involved in a foursome over the weekend So what? DON'T EVEN ask what we did for New Years Eve.....

What did you do for New Year's, Hedonist?

Quoted: Bud, my wife isn't a runway queen for Victoria's Secret but that never stopped me from asking her to wear sexy nighties.

So do I ask my wife to wear that stuff, but that is your wife being your wife.

NOT your wife pretending to be something she isn't, and you getting off on her pretense.

Apples and oranges.

Quoted: So was it a full blown wife swap or did they just all have sex in the same room? A LOT of couples define group sex by how many are in the room. Often the only thing that comes close to having sex with the other couple is the wives kissing each other naked. I could be down for that. I could never get into a wife swap, I don't want some dudes schlong near my wife.

From what I was told it was full swap, swap back and forth etc.

Quoted: Well, we'd have to define vanilla sex. Like I said, most ANYTHING with my wife (excluding porn) is fair territory.

Except for sexy teddys or cheerleader outfits, I take it.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I tend to think that sex is not just a menu of acts or positions, its supposed to be a mutually enjoyable act of intimacy.       Not to bring evolution into everything, but it DOES flavor everything people beleive. Often, evolutionists will tell me love is nothing more than an intricate set of chemical reactions. As such, its no surprise to me an evolutionists would also beelive sex is little more than a menu of personal gratification. You can have sex with anyone at the drop of a hat, but intimacy takes much, much longer. Is that kinda like micro evolution vs. macro evolution?   The point I am making is the degeneration of our attitudes toward sex seem related to our attitudes toward the nature of man.

Garandman, you speak the truth.

-HS