This discussion appears to be going the way of many like it and turning into a shouting match. Sigh...

Personally, I have learned that there are rational reasons that police are trained to point their weapons instead of just hold them at low ready. That quarter or half second just might save your life.

I'm still not comfortable with it, however, and don't expect I'll ever be. This old dog isn't likely to learn that new trick.

If I lived in a world where I knew that every cop was was a good guy who kept in good training, I might be able to accept it. In the real world, the double standard doesn't sit well with me.

But I can complain until I'm blue in the face. Cops will still do what cops do.

Until the "papieren bitte" roadblocks become an every day occurrence, which, IMHO, is not far away, most days my only interaction with cops is to see a couple of state police cars helping or hassling other motorists. If it stayed that way for my remaining 30 years on the planet, it would suit me just fine.

Good, you shouldn't be.

Neither should the general public.

Neither should individual LEO's.

Neither should LEA's.

But that doesn't mean that under certain circumstnaces this drastic act isn't justified or apropriate.

Lot of guessing here..

I guess you had alot of time on your hands to actually go out in the middle of all the chaos during the sniper incident

Actually go out?  I guess I should have stayed home and cowered in my home,  but my family likes to eat, so I was out WORKING, same as every day.. for a couple days there, you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a white box truck with a swarm of police around it. By the way, calling him a sniper just demeans folks who are REAL snipers..

and watch with a pair of binoculars to see which cops had their fingers on the trigger.

Well, I do keep binocs in the truck, but I didn't really need them to see the cops 30 feet from my vehicle, pointing guns at a guy who was showing his hands and being cooperative.

I guess you were standing directly behind the officer to see where his weapon was pointed and you were not looking from and angle and were able to determine that he was muzzling another officer?

Well, I was sitting, but you got the rest of it right.

Wow you must have eagle like vision.

 No, but I am looking into laser surgery :-)
 
I am tired of civilians who receive some type of shooting training,

I have been shooting since I was a kid, and have taken instruction from some of the same instructors you guys do. I shoot more ammo than most of you, more often. Who is more likely to strive to be better?  The guy who shoots "X" number of times per year, cuz he has to,  or the guy who shoots EVERY WEEK, because he LIKES TO?  I have shot next to lots of cops at local ranges, sometimes when they qualify, put up the same targets, run THEIR drills with them, and shoot as well or better than most. While most shot acceptably, I have never witnessed these alleged Jedi- like skills that supposedly allow them to throw the rules out the window.

and then come on to this message board and monday morning quarterback us on how we should do our jobs.

Look, if you feel threatened, by all means,  use whatever force is neccesary, my only point is that NOBODY deserves to be looking down the barrel of a gun, for doing nothing wrong, other than being unlucky enough to be driving a white box truck...

Join the Police Dept yourself and you can go through the Police Academy and go through over 80+ hours of firearms instruction.  Then you might get a jist of what it is about.[/quote]

I have more than that under my belt, at my own expense. I think I at least have a jist.

When you point a gun at someone, with no good reason, you have threatened deadly force against someone without justification, and at that point the law is not on your side any more. Food for thought.

I would have mine out if i wasn't sure if they were armed or not, but i wouldn't aim it at them! I can react and aquire a target fast enough from shooting competition IDPA, but i do know the local police have a policy agaisnt having your weapon out of the holster unless danger of death or injury is imminent, I'm an Elected official so my "policies" are up to me!

I am also light years ahead of the local Police in weapons handling and accuracy, due to IDPA and IPSC type shooting matches, they just see their guns as equipment and a nuisance they have to qualify once a year with!

Fireguy3: "local Police... ...just see their guns as equipment and a nuisance they have to qualify once a year with!"

Am I correct to assume by your statement that you think ALL local police are that way?

I guess that's fair since I think ALL elected officials are crooks.
CR

BillStClair, I commend you for your last post, I am very pleased that you have an open mind to understand it is not a perfect world.  As a LEO, I would like to never have to point my weapons at an individual, but the world dictates otherwise.  My goal was not, nor do I think it was of any LEO here to change your mind.  We were only giving our view point on how we must act in order to go home very night to our families.  You are right, becoming a shouting match, but until now, I think was very productive to those who had an open mind.  Also gave me some insight into what the individuals who I am pointing my firearm at are thinking. To all, understand we as LEO do not do it just because we can, we have been shown, and trained, more than the normal citizen that you cannot outdraw anyone and you cannot react and win a gunfight.  AS for Fireguy3 last statement about how fast he is, I guarantee you if he is not expecting the shot, I will hit him with 2 shots before he can react, even if he is at low ready.  If he is coming from the holster, he is dead! Action ALWAYS beats reaction