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Posted: 10/11/2002 2:39:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: [b] some new ones[/b] [img]us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20021011/capt.1034357357.sniper_shootings_vawoo102.jpg[/img] Hey! What's the deal with those police officers wearing camo? WTF do they think they're doing? Are they trying to look like some military wannabes? See!! That's proof that LE is too militaristic!! Whatever happened to our liberties?!!? There's no more separation of the military and the police. We're doomed!! Awk!! The sky is falling!! Awk!! Awk!! Where's my tin-foil, dammit! [;D] |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 2:42:21 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: If these guys tried to stop me, I'd make him a hood ornament. No fucking way I'd stop for someone who looks like a Mexican highway robber. Damn right !! And to all of you mask apologists....why DOES someone wear a mask ?? Why DOES a bank robber or any other criminal wear a mask ?? Why are these guys wearing a mask ?? |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 2:44:27 PM EDT
[#3]
i have two guesses as to why they are wearing masks (up from the one guess i had before seing pics of others without them)
1) want to look like billy badass 2) undercover worker, so don't want to be outed as a cop if somone happens to drive by and see him on the highway in a police jacket |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 2:46:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: Quoted: [b] some new ones[/b] [url]us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20021011/capt.1034357357.sniper_shootings_vawoo102.jpg[/url] Hey! What's the deal with those police officers wearing camo? WTF do they think they're doing? Are they trying to look like some military wannabes? See!! That's proof that LE is too militaristic!! Whatever happened to our liberties?!!? There's no more separation of the military and the police. We're doomed!! Awk!! The sky is falling!! Awk!! Awk!! Where's my tin-foil, dammit! [;D] And people wonder why leo's get bashed. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 2:46:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Well, I dont know.
But what I do know is these guys are out there risking their lives. They very well may have a good reason for wearing the mask. HOWEVER, maybe they just want to feel like a badass. But, given that they are doing something honorable, I will give them the benefit of the doubt, and not jump to conclusions. You guys are very fast to jump to conclusions, and I dont think that is fair. Its just like how politicians try to ruin the 2nd amendment. They jump to conclusions and thats that. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 2:46:51 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Those aren't masks. They're balaclavas. Those are ninja cops. Good thing they are not [b]Mall Ninja Cops![/b] What say? --LS |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 2:46:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Quoted: If these guys tried to stop me, I'd make him a hood ornament. No fucking way I'd stop for someone who looks like a Mexican highway robber. Damn right !! And to all of you mask apologists....why DOES someone wear a mask ?? Why DOES a bank robber or any other criminal wear a mask ?? Why are these guys wearing a mask ?? They wear masks for the same reason you post using a nick... to hide their identity. Not all the cops are wearing them, so there must be a *special* reason. Maybe they're undercover officers and want to avoid being ID'ed by the public they encounter or by being shown on TV? Do ya think? Or would you rather that the police NOT use every available resource to nail this shooter? |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 2:48:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: [b] some new ones[/b] [url]us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20021011/capt.1034357357.sniper_shootings_vawoo102.jpg[/url] Hey! What's the deal with those police officers wearing camo? WTF do they think they're doing? Are they trying to look like some military wannabes? See!! That's proof that LE is too militaristic!! Whatever happened to our liberties?!!? There's no more separation of the military and the police. We're doomed!! Awk!! The sky is falling!! Awk!! Awk!! Where's my tin-foil, dammit! [;D] And people wonder why leo's get bashed. No, I don't wonder at all. You see what you want to see. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 2:49:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:You guys are very fast to jump to conclusions, and I dont think that is fair. Its just like how politicians try to ruin the 2nd amendment. They jump to conclusions and thats that. maybe if this was the first time we've seen faceless enforcers it would be quick judging and jumping to conclusions but the dehumanizing masks have been around for a while maybe they wear them because it psychologically allows them do do things that they would normally consider morally reprehensible? like an executioners hood. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 2:49:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Quoted: Those aren't masks. They're balaclavas. Those are ninja cops. Good thing they are not [b]Mall Ninja Cops![/b] What say? --LS No! If they were, the shooter'd have had his head cut off by now! [:D] |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 2:50:20 PM EDT
[#11]
is it just me, or does this remind anyone else of ISREAL!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Posted: 10/11/2002 2:50:48 PM EDT
[#12]
What immoral things are they doin out there? (that they wouldnt do without a mask)
Are they executing anyone? Dont think so... |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 2:52:54 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: is it just me, or does this remind anyone else of ISREAL!!!!!!!!!!!! Well some of us have been warning about this sort of thing happening here. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 2:53:11 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If these guys tried to stop me, I'd make him a hood ornament. No fucking way I'd stop for someone who looks like a Mexican highway robber. Damn right !! And to all of you mask apologists....why DOES someone wear a mask ?? Why DOES a bank robber or any other criminal wear a mask ?? Why are these guys wearing a mask ?? They wear masks for the same reason you post using a nick... to hide their identity. Not all the cops are wearing them, so there must be a *special* reason. Maybe they're undercover officers and want to avoid being ID'ed by the public they encounter or by being shown on TV? Do ya think? Or would you rather that the police NOT use every available resource to nail this shooter? I don't think there is any reason whatsoever to be wearing masks in that situation. I don't think there is any reason EVER that our PUBLIC SERVANTS who we employ, should need to wear a mask. Sorry, if they need to hide their identity that bad they should'nt be out there in the first place. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 2:54:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: I dunno, but How the heck are you supposed to know they are police officers, in ninja masks and multi colored wind breakers, it would be nice if the cops dressed like cops so you could tell THEM FROM THE SNIPER!!! I think these guys look unprofessional as hell and the masks are absolute B.S. these get ups just reinforce the publics bad perception of militaristic law enforcement wanna-be's I'm not worried that they are carrying long weapons, that's to be expected, but for gods sakes they could lose the Bosnian windbreakers and masks. are you assuming the sniper is not a police officer. if he is, then he probly has a uniform anyway. its not hard to get a uniform in the first place. when i was visiting New York, i went to a station and asked for a patch for my collection and the guy said, "sorry we dont have anymore, but wait, i think i have an extra uniform shirt you can have." so now i have a NYPD, HPD, Calgary Canada, RCMP and DPD shirts. its not hard to get police gear. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 2:54:51 PM EDT
[#16]
wanna have some real fun? get out your camera and walk around town for a while photographing cops.
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Posted: 10/11/2002 2:55:00 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Quoted:You guys are very fast to jump to conclusions, and I dont think that is fair. Its just like how politicians try to ruin the 2nd amendment. They jump to conclusions and thats that. maybe if this was the first time we've seen faceless enforcers it would be quick judging and jumping to conclusions but the dehumanizing masks have been around for a while [red]maybe they wear them because it psychologically allows them do do things that they would normally consider morally reprehensible? like an executioners hood.[/red] Bingo !! |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 2:55:27 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: No! If they were, the shooter'd have had his head cut off by now! [:D] Well yea! But so would everyone else on 395 as well!!! (just kidding visitors... inside joke) --LS |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:00:31 PM EDT
[#19]
I'm gonna jump in here.
Issue A)[b]The cops are in jeans and stuff[/b] Look some of these guys have probably been on shift for a very long time. If they want to be comfortable, let them. All right, dress pants, low quarter dress shoes, etc. don't seem like they'd be all that comfortable for guys who have been running all over creation for long periods of time. Issue B) [b]The cops have masks[/b] No. SOME cops have masks. Not all of them are in masks. This lends credence to that SOME of the cops also do undercover work, and shoving their faces all over the news and the interstate means they wouldn't be able to do that anymore. Leave them alone, they're doing the best they can in shitty conditions. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:00:50 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: Why are cops stopping people in the middle of the street with no probable cause? Why are people cooperating? Stopping every white van on the road shows their utter incompetance and desperation. They're stopping every white van on the road because [i]they have no better lead[/i]. And it beats the hell out of doing nothing. Because they ARE doing nothing! Today's shooting occurred [b]50 yards[/b] from a cop doing a traffic stop! We all know what kind of a report .223 rounds put out from all that powder, tell me how in the hell do you miss something like that?! Quoted: Because, in case you haven't been paying attention, there's a serial killer on the loose who tends to shoot people and then drive away. A white van has been reported at more than one of the shootings, and was reported as being at the scene of the shooting this morning. The police were on the major highways leading away from the scene checking vehicles what matched the description, which created somewhat of a traffic jam. And why are people cooperating? Because everyone with a fucking ounce of brains wants the guy to be caught and understands that if it inconveniences them a little on the drive to work, it's worth it if it leads to an arrest. Explain to me why law-abiding Americans have to give up their 4th Amendment rights of unreasonable search and seizure every time some crisis develops? Explain to me, if I were a driver of a white van on I-95 who knows he didn't do anything wrong, why I should submit to what is an [i]unreasonable search[/i]? Stopping every white van (the most common color of van) is like saying "stop every make that has brown hair". You can't legally get away with it.Want to search a vehicle? Get a warrant! Give up my rights because I happen to drive a same color van that MIGHT be the murderer's? Screw you! What next, interviews with all AR-15 owners??!! |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:00:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Quoted: is it just me, or does this remind anyone else of ISREAL!!!!!!!!!!!! Well some of us have been warning about this sort of thing happening here. ok thats it! all members go up to MD in rented white vans with video cameras to recored what happens to you. and if you feel daring enough take your AR. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:01:25 PM EDT
[#22]
All I can think of is that maybe they are undercover.
Figure alot of people (including drug dealers) will see the pictures of them with their rifles and such. If they have to wear a mask so that they dont get shot on the next drug bust where they pose as a dealer, so be it. Like I said, that scenario is VERY possible. So for now, or until someone proves it, I will give them the benefit of the doubt, and thats all there is to it. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:02:06 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: If these guys tried to stop me, I'd make him a hood ornament. No fucking way I'd stop for someone who looks like a Mexican highway robber. Hmmmm would the mexican highway robber use force to stop you? Id say ... most likely. Would the judge hearing your case about eluding police make you wish you stopped... most definatly. Will the cheap ass court appointed lawyer you get help you get a reduced sentence? Hell no. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:07:10 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Want to search a vehicle? Get a warrant! 'OK, I can do that. Wait right here and I'll call in and get a warrant.' That's legal. Hope your butt don't get sore sittin there on the side of the road. Give up my rights because I happen to drive a same color van that MIGHT be the murderer's? Screw you! What next, interviews with all AR-15 owners??!! Yea, prolly. --LS |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:08:14 PM EDT
[#25]
someone should change the thread to cops wearing masks.
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:09:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Hey Kronagon
You can always just tell them no. All of these people volunteered let the police search their vans. If you didn't want to thats fine. You would just sit at the side of the road untill they got a warrant and then search you. Might take a few hours but it would be legal. There were LOTS of witnesses who saw a white van leave the scene this time, without the plate alas, that and your behavior woud be enough for most judges to issue a warrant. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:11:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Hey, do the cops wearing camo have G36s?
I think they do. Somebody get me a job application. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:12:13 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: KBaker... Regarding 'The Nine Principles...' Good post. When the fvck did [b]that[/b] happen? As to the "undercover cop" idea, yes that might be an answer, but these guys are carrying "tactical" type weapons that I have always associated with SWAT - and I have [i]yet[/i] to hear a plausible reason why SWAT members need to wear ski masks in order to do their jobs. It seems to me to violate rules 2, 7, and 8 for no good reason. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:14:08 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Quoted: Want to search a vehicle? Get a warrant! 'OK, I can do that. Wait right here and I'll call in and get a warrant.' That's legal. Hope your butt don't get sore sittin there on the side of the road. Give up my rights because I happen to drive a same color van that MIGHT be the murderer's? Screw you! What next, interviews with all AR-15 owners??!! Yea, prolly. --LS Fine with me, I'll wait right there for them to get a warrant for no reason. [red]"yea, prolly"[/red] Speak for yourself. If you wish to give up your rights, fine, but don't expect the rest of us to do so just because you think it's ok. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:14:11 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: [red]maybe they wear them because it psychologically allows them do do things that they would normally consider morally reprehensible? like an executioners hood.[/red] Bingo !! This is it, exactly. If you think about it, what DScott is saying dovetails with the above perfectly, though on a lesser scale--though from the tone of his posts, I doubt he'd ever admit it. People say and do things on the net they would never do in real life--the perceived anonymity makes them believe that they can say or get away with anything, because no one knows who they really are. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:14:51 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: that and your behavior woud be enough for most judges to issue a warrant. 'zackly! Now, back to the photos. Yea, are they g36's or ZM's or what? --LS |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:16:52 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Quoted: KBaker... Regarding 'The Nine Principles...' Good post. When the fvck did [b]that[/b] happen? As to the "undercover cop" idea, yes that might be an answer, but these guys are carrying "tactical" type weapons that I have always associated with SWAT - and I have [i]yet[/i] to hear a plausible reason why SWAT members need to wear ski masks in order to do their jobs. It seems to me to violate rules 2, 7, and 8 for no good reason. Well said KBaker. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:17:04 PM EDT
[#33]
I am trying to make out the butt, I think they are either G36s or Sigs
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:18:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: that and your behavior woud be enough for most judges to issue a warrant. huh? them: stop we want to search your van me: not without a warrant them: judge, this man won't let us search without a warrant judge: that's suspicious, here's a warrant don't seem quite right does it? |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:19:15 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: [red]"yea, prolly"[/red] Speak for yourself. If you wish to give up your rights, fine, but don't expect the rest of us to do so just because you think it's ok. I ain't givin up snit. Just hypothesizing that THAT may well be what they try to do next. --LS |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:21:47 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Quoted: that and your behavior woud be enough for most judges to issue a warrant. huh? them: stop we want to search your van me: not without a warrant them: judge, this man won't let us search without a warrant judge: that's suspicious, here's a warrant don't seem quite right does it? Why are you deliberately leaving out the part about the van matching the vheicle seen leaving the scene of a homocide? |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:21:50 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Quoted: that and your behavior woud be enough for most judges to issue a warrant. huh? them: stop we want to search your van me: not without a warrant them: judge, this man won't let us search without a warrant judge: that's suspicious, here's a warrant don't seem quite right does it? Seems just fine.....from a masked LEO's point of view. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:22:36 PM EDT
[#38]
Masks and jeans...Billy Badass is checking your car. Someone needs to ask the Sheriff why they are masked.... a soccer mom with her 8 year old in the car would probably be a little scared.
[b][blue]NAKED[/blue][/b] |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:23:10 PM EDT
[#39]
These guys don't look like cops to me. Might make some of these people getting pulled over mighty upset.
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:24:12 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: that and your behavior woud be enough for most judges to issue a warrant. huh? them: stop we want to search your van me: not without a warrant them: judge, this man won't let us search without a warrant judge: that's suspicious, here's a warrant don't seem quite right does it? Why are you deliberately leaving out the part about the van matching the vheicle seen leaving the scene of a homocide? They also saw a similar van at yesterdays shooting which was a red herring. What makes this sighting of a very common vehicle so credible ?? |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:28:09 PM EDT
[#41]
Look, my only point is...why must they wear these masks in this particular situation ?? A situation where the sheeple are already scared shitless and all this does is increase the tension and fear level above what it should be.
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:28:35 PM EDT
[#42]
Were any of you there?? There were hundreds upon hundreds of LEOs out there, from all imaginable agencies. Some were masked. Do you know anything about undercover work?? There are guys deep in drug rings, gang officers, you name it.
There were hundreds of uniform LEOs and hundreds of clearly marked police vehicles. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:28:58 PM EDT
[#43]
How does a masked officer violate someones civil rights while being surrounded by unmasked officers? You would be able to track them down by going after the officers you could identify.
But it does prevent them from being made on TV and jepardizing their lives in their normal undercover work. And by the way, saying a police officer is going to commit a crime because they wear a mask is no different than the anti-gunners saying your going to commit a crime because you choose to buy a AR-15. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:32:40 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: What immoral things are they doin out there? (that they wouldnt do without a mask) What does morality have to do with LEOs looking like thugs? |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:43:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Quoted: that and your behavior woud be enough for most judges to issue a warrant. 'zackly! Now, back to the photos. Yea, are they g36's or ZM's or what? --LS G36 for certain...... |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:43:22 PM EDT
[#46]
I was not going to respond to this thread as I see it as just another cop bashing thread by people who probably through their own actions have good reasons to fear the police, but I just can't help myself.
I would be glad to let my undercover guys do extra duty in the light of day when the whole country is disarmed and no firearms, knives, clubs, bicycles, or other deadly weapons are in the hands of criminals. Until that happens ( read never) When I need them for extra duties in a crisis they will wear their protective nomex hoods so that I don't have to tell their kids why some doper made them from their picture in the paper while they were helping in a crisis, and smoked them. Man we go alot of Buttheads around here at times. I direct this at no one in particular as those who fit already know who they are and don't need me to remind them. [/rant] |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:44:46 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Why are cops stopping people in the middle of the street with no probable cause? Why are people cooperating? Stopping every white van on the road shows their utter incompetance and desperation. Damn...not another whacko libertarian conspiracy nut! The probable cause for the cops stopping traffic is the death by gunshot of a citizen in Spotsylvania County a short time before this picture was taken. The citizens are cooperating because they want the cops to FIND the perps before the perps kill them or a member of their family! How's that for logic for you? Do you GET IT? Since you are so free with your opinions, why not let us enjoy the fruits of your genius? How would YOU find the terrorist shooter? I'm sure if you have such a hot plan, the Feebs and the cops would be more than happy to accept it. By the look of it, that is I-495 at the Mixing Bowl in Springfield...a VERY busy cloverleaf area about 40 miles north from the scene of the shooting. Given that the witnesses said the perps were last seen heading northbound in I-95 in the direction of this interchange, how would you propose to locate the fleeing van? Again...just how would YOU conduct this investigation? I'll tell you what pal...I AM desperate. I live in Stafford County just about five miles from each of the shootings down here. I AM worried about my family. I AM on the lookout constantly and I AM doing my best not to give a sniper a juicy target. It now appears there are more than one teams working this area in different vehicles, making the law dogs jobs all that much harder. I don't think they are incompetent as stated by you...they are up against a dedicated team of terrorist assassins, who have thought this out VERY well. Cool your jets and don't worry...your civil rights are not in danger. If you want to complain...complain to the fucking killers. THEY are the ones you should be bitching about/at...not the rest of us and the cops. [stick] |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:45:16 PM EDT
[#48]
I agree that it is bad form to have mask wearing LEOs on that particular scene. Too many other cops on the scene and in the area in general to have the few mask wearers scaring the public further.
However, there are some good reasons for the masks: SWAT raids--nomex to protect from fire, CS etc. Undercover--avoids detection. Can't think of any others. They should have left the undercover boys out of the searches here. Unless detectives or coming from off duty, every one of them should be in uniforms. (not BDU's, Camo, Ninja suits etc.) We have and continue to see a fundamental shift in law enforcement's focus. LE used to seek to portray itself as humble civil servants of the community with a protective, responsive mission. Now, LE has become more militaristic looking in outward image which I feel reflects a shift in the paradigm. Now, they are on the offensive; with bigger and badder toys (paid for and perpetuated with drug seizure $ BTW), SWAT teams (with dubious value) for even very small communities, and no-knock raids for every warrant service. What happened to the detective in brown wingtips, a tweed sportcoat and a bad haircut--.38 spcl. on his side? There are numerous examples of departments carrying out no-knocks etc. when all they had to do was wait until the suspect was alone on the street to pick him up. (remember Koresh?) Just another example here of JBT symdrome. Let's all look like Delta Force, they are soooo coool. (Like a bunch of damn 10 year olds). |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:48:05 PM EDT
[#49]
I would think they'd wear reflective vests so they don't get run over.
Regarding the ski masks, they itch. I don't get why they want to look uniform, yet wear civilian clothes. Also, those masks itch. Everyones carrying AR's. Cool. Also, if the shooter was even remotely sharp, he'd trade in his white van for something else. And who's to say this isn't a WOMAN. Bunch of shovenistic bastards, I feel discriminated, I'm gonna sue the sniper for traumatic stress, assuming he/SHE doesn't get waxed by ninja cops. |
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Posted: 10/11/2002 3:51:09 PM EDT
[#50]
[img]http://insanetoysinc.com/Va_3.JPG[/img]
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