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I would have killed for boots I did not have to shine when I was in and I mean that literally I would have killed for them. I like the ACUs in therory (not paying a seamstress to sew tabs and tape every time you bought a new set and the pockets look useful) but hey what do I know when I got out we were still sporting BDUs.

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Modern warfare rarely includes acting like a ninja.

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acu wont be around for long. the only thing it blends in well with are rocks/gravel. the marines have it right. marpat desert/marpat woodland.  in kuwait we had a really hard time spotting the marines, while the acu " stuck out"...thats the way to go. there is no single camo that will do it all. the best bet would be to just make reversible uniforms. just turn them inside out.
since when does the military/government really give a fuck how much something costs, or how complicated it is? if they were worried about it, every service would have the same uniform..?

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I actually modified my ACU's in Afghanistan buy dropping a bottle of Ritz Tan Color Dye in the wash. It made the Blue's in the ACU turn an Olive shade and the Grey into Tan. It blended very well in the environment. The Battalion XO threatened to give me an Article 15 claiming that I destroyed Government property. They rest of the guys in the unit were pissed because they thought that what I did was innovative and suggested that I pushed my modifications to Washington. I succumbed to pressure from the immediate chain of command and just put my modified ACU's at the bottom of my tuffbox.

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/128/2032/17406.jpg

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Digital Multicam FTW

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn163/3crowns_photos/digitalmulticam.jpg

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I actually modified my ACU's in Afghanistan buy dropping a bottle of Ritz Tan Color Dye in the wash. It made the Blue's in the ACU turn an Olive shade and the Grey into Tan. It blended very well in the environment. The Battalion XO threatened to give me an Article 15 claiming that I destroyed Government property. They rest of the guys in the unit were pissed because they thought that what I did was innovative and suggested that I pushed my modifications to Washington. I succumbed to pressure from the immediate chain of command and just put my modified ACU's at the bottom of my tuffbox.

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/128/2032/17406.jpg

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Man, when I officially made the switch over to the Marine Corps, showed up at OCS, and was issued MARPAT cammies, my first question was: "Ummm...do we get summer weight cammies too, or are those all going to the sand box?"

Them:  The desert ones are summer, the woodland ones are winter!

Me:


I was really shocked.  They really ought to make a summer weight and winter weight, like the old BDUs.


-Ben

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I love the boots, like the pocket pattern, love the low maintenance, would prefer buttons or a zipper over velcro, wish the pattern was a little darker, and wish a few areas would be reinforced. I'm split on the velcro nametape/patch idea; it's convenient, but it's easy to lose nametapes and rank when crawling in the prone.

Side note on the velcro nametape; it provides for great pranks. I'm tempted to have a "shitbag" nametape made and discretely apply to a few cadets' patrol caps whom it applies to.  


It would be great if they issued actual under armor as the undershirt, but I understand that that would be very expensive.

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I personally think the velcro name tapes are pretty useful.  Especially when the douchebag BC goes to Cross Swords for a photo op on first time off VBC, and leaves his shizzle in the mailroom.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/centermass181/motivator2780773.jpg

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Agreed 100%.  That is why the ACUs are way more comfortable than the MARPAT woodlands.  What is the USMC thinking?  It doesn't get hot in a woodland enviroment?  

the MARPAT pants are made of a heavier weight material than the shirt (for both the woodland and dessert). they did a study during development that showed that the pants wore out 3x faster than shirt so they went with a more durable material. Crye uses the same heavy weight material for their Multicam pants

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IIRC, both multicam and a different ACU-color scheme, scored higher than the current ACU-color scheme...snip,,,.

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Agreed 100%.  That is why the ACUs are way more comfortable than the MARPAT woodlands.  What is the USMC thinking?  It doesn't get hot in a woodland enviroment?  

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Agreed 100%.  That is why the ACUs are way more comfortable than the MARPAT woodlands.  What is the USMC thinking?  It doesn't get hot in a woodland enviroment?  

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its not ripstop vs non-ripstop; it's material weight.  the ACU's come in 50/50 NYCO ripstop while the MCCUU is 50/50 NYCO twill (in 2 different weights).  BDU's had a summer weight material that was 100% cotton ripstop  

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I actually modified my ACU's in Afghanistan buy dropping a bottle of Ritz Tan Color Dye in the wash. It made the Blue's in the ACU turn an Olive shade and the Grey into Tan. It blended very well in the environment. The Battalion XO threatened to give me an Article 15 claiming that I destroyed Government property. They rest of the guys in the unit were pissed because they thought that what I did was innovative and suggested that I pushed my modifications to Washington. I succumbed to pressure from the immediate chain of command and just put my modified ACU's at the bottom of my tuffbox.

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/128/2032/17406.jpg

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How much dye did you use? Just pour the full bottle in and wash it through without soap?

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Here's my take.
ACU=Comfy ,Cammo sucks, velcro blows, not durable.
A2CU (Nomex 2 Piece) A.K.A. "Tactical Jammies" Way more comfortable,Cammo still sucks
Cargo pockets not worth a damn, no room to put mags. Dries REAL fast when wet.


Ya Know Its kinda funny we had this big push for a new uniform only after the Chinese Army fielded a uniform that,,surprise, looks just like B.D.U.

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And isn't Velcro a no-no for clandestine operations?  I mean, think about it: you're behind enemy line (with Owen Wilson  ), an enemy patrol is within earshot––you're using hand signals to communicate with other members of you team, and then you realize you need something in your pocket ... a pocket that is secured with a Velcro (or Hook & Loop) closure.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip

Gunfight ensues ...


*Note: it's easier to sew on replacement buttons than it is hook and loop tape.  Especially if you suck at sewing.  

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I think the military should adopt three camo patterns: a universal camo (like Multicam) to be issued to everyone, a dedicated woodland pattern to be issued only in the event of deployment to that type of terrain, and a dedicated desert pattern.

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My hometown is home to a couple air force bases, so I see AF guys in the new ABU all the time. Every opportunity I get, I ask their opinion of the new uniforms.

So far, the results are unanimous: they suck. Every one says they're too heavy and don't breathe at all, some say they're too fragile along the seams, and several dislike the pattern.

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huh... I never realized they were supposed to look that way, I just figured Army clothes fade real fast.

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22 years in the Marine Corps, I never once wore rip stop uniforms.

Too damned flimsy.

Woodlands. (later Marpat)

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so why does ACU some times look pink?
Has anyone else seen this or is it just me?

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Also need a dedicated artic/winter pattern... Probably wouldn't get used much, but when you need it, you need it.

(January 29, 2008 Vancouver, B.C.) The Camouflage design team of Dr. Timothy R. O'Neill and Guy Cramer have had their first jointly developed U.S. Military pattern to be issued: The United States Marine Corps Disruptive Overwhite (Snow Camouflage)

HyperStealth’s President/CEO Guy Cramer and his camouflage design partner Lt. Col. Timothy R. O’Neill Ph.D. (U.S. Army, Ret.) are both under contract to the U.S. military and have been so since 2004. They are working together on a number of programs to develop the United States Military next generation camouflage patterns. These programs are independent of HyperStealth Biotechnology Corp.

O'Neill developed DualTex camouflage for the U.S. Army in the late 70's and early 80's that was the catalyst for recent pixalated patterns, and he is also one of the Patent holders for MARPAT (U.S. Marines Pattern). Cramer, who developed proprietary fractal algorithms to increase camouflage pattern effectiveness, was commissioned by King Abdullah II (Jordan) in 2003 developed the pixalated KA2 pattern for Jordan - which now has seven color schemes and over 750,000 uniforms manufactured for military, police, civil defense and customs officers. Together the team has developed camouflage patterns for other U.S. Government programs and for a number of other countries (to be announced within the next few months).    

The USMC Disruptive Overwhite Uniform Program was overseen by USMC Program Manager Infantry Combat Equipment (PMICE) and the U.S. Army Soldiers System Center (Natick).

The USMC Snow Camouflage was developed by Cramer/O'Neill in 2005. After reviewing most of the worlds different snow camouflage patterns used in both military and hunting, the team developed and simulated over 30 new disruptive snow patterns, determining the top three patterns which were presented to the USMC Scout/Sniper School, Quantico for final selection. The final pattern used a subtle gray fractal/digital disruptive array to improve camouflage effect in identified operational areas and conditions.

The final pattern selected by the Snipers underwent strict simulation studies using rigorous photosimulation methods developed at West point in 2006 at the United States Military Academy (USMA), with results which only equaled the current issue Overwhite (all white) Snow Uniform. The pattern was then revised by Cramer/O'Neill modifying the color, contrast, and size of arrays  to optimize the visual effect and retested at the USMA; Objective photosimulation testing showed that the Disruptive Overwhite pattern equaled and significantly exceeded the previous all white Overwhites for concealment in a series of tests within Snow covered Negative (open areas) and Positive (covered areas) regions. In November 2006 the USMC Disruptive Overwhite parka and trousers and Pack Covers were issued to the Mountain Warfare Training Center and to the Marine Reserve unit at Elmendorf AFB in Alaska for final field evaluations.

Field trials confirmed the previous results and the USMC began to issue the uniform in November 2007 with an initialed Acquisition Objective (AO) of 20,000 uniforms, this supplemented the Initial delivery of 4000 parkas, trousers, and pack covers used for field trials which was completed in December 2006 .

The Disruptive Overwhite Garment weighs no more than 0.65 lbs each and can be self stowed in a 6in. x 9in. pocket. With high tear strength in each direction, the cloth has a water repellent treatment durable to 50 laundering cycles, low air permeability, good drapeability, soft hand for low noise signature when moving, and is opaque to prevent woodland MARPAT undergarment strike through that diminishes the snow camouflage cover.

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The Army has never been that brilliant at this.  That goes for many of its projects.

Too many officers who are clueless and political.

Glad I can retire in a few years.

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It was The Army that LED the movment towards digital camo AND digital uniforms.

Both the USMC and the Canadians came to The Army for this.



It was The Army that LED the trend towards the reversed leather/unpolished boot.

It was proposed in 1983 but went nowhere because they couldn't get all services on board.



But, the Army does fuck up the details, on occasion.

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they might have come to them because of the testing facilities at NATICK but the Army didnt test any 'digital' (pixelated) patterns for uniforms until after CADPAT and MARPAT were fielded

 

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Also need a dedicated artic/winter pattern... Probably wouldn't get used much, but when you need it, you need it.

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Nope.


The Army was working on digital camo as far back as the early 1980s.


They did a test on vehicle digital camo, but they were working on digital uniform camo after that.

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oh, youre talking about Dual-Tex.  it was only tested on vehicles, as you said.

these were the patterns in the running for the ACU (along with multicam):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8a/Track_Pattern.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/26/All_Over_Brush_Pattern.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/03/Shadow_Line_Pattern.JPG


after MARPAT was fielded, these patterns were all dumped and current ACU pattern appeared almost out of nowhere and was never subjected to the kinds of testing that the above patterns were
 

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Adding salt to the dye will darken the color and I've been told, when the cloth has a synthetic component, to add a bottle of isopropyl alcohol to help the dye penetrate the synthetic fibres.  The 50% Nylon in this case.

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http://www.milspecmonkey.com/articles/acu-pic02.jpg

It works because it's digital, and there are no blacks in nature.

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ACU did appear out of nowhere.

Major fuckup all around, when they had solid designs in their hands.



But, the two Marine snipers who came up with the revised uniform concept UNEQUIVOCABLY gave The Army credit for digital uniform camo.  As they stated, the USMC and Canada argued about "the chicken and the egg", but said The Army was "the rooster".

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http://www.milspecmonkey.com/articles/acu-pic02.jpg



It works because it's digital, and there are no blacks in nature.

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well the MARPAT patent says this:

"After extensive laboratory analysis and testing,a variation of the CADPAT pattern, empirically modified by theartisticinterpretation and visual experience of well trained and seasoned MarineCorps Scout Snipers was selected and designated as MARPAT (Marine CorpsPattern.)"

they do mention Dual-Tex research in the Prior Art section of the patent



 

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like the new MARPAT snow camo?

http://i41.tinypic.com/10rv1qx.jpg
 

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http://www.milspecmonkey.com/articles/acu-pic02.jpg

It works because it's digital, and there are no blacks in nature.