Quoted: Quoted: Disclaimer: I in no way shape or form support racism. This is not meant as a "mexican" bash thread. It is only my misguided opinion on a certian subject. ANd you all know my opinions aren't suppoeted by anyone and are completely fucked up.  Mods: If this thread is or gets over the lines, move it to the pit or lock/delete it.                                                             -FOX- It's sad that white people need to put these kinds of disclaimers on what they write or say, before they even say it. Oh well, you're still a racist.

How do you know he's white?
I've heard people of every color saying the same thing. 99% of Americans (of all colors) say they hate it when people don't sprechen sie english.

I do not mind business or commercials that are geared towards a percentage of the population, especially as large as it is......that's just smart marketing to go after a demographic that grows even larger every day......and pays mostly in cash.  But for government to go out of its way to change signage, force business to change signage, is wrong as far as I'm concerned. I understand all the pro's and con's of the "English as the national language" debate, and I think the pro's outweigh the con's.  We are likely a few years away from many people putting it on the ballot, but by then the people that would be interested in making it happen would be in the minority.........so start learning spanish my friend.......

Quoted: Quoted: Snip I useally don't do my homework at home. Start with spelling

FOX-  Do yourself a favor and PROOFREAD and EDIT your posts.  People won't rag on you so much.

BTW, how's trash and singleshot doing?  Tell 'em I said hello.

Quoted: Earlier this year Comcast (a local cable company) started showing one of their commercials in spanish. I started screaming at the TV "Speak American!!!!" but no one heard me. About one month later, I had my cable turned off. I would probably be a lot more stressed if I had to watch the idiots on TV. BTW, There's a street here in the Atlanta area that looks like a foreign country, and it's been like that for years. Almost all of the signs are in another language. That should be against the law. Scott

The one that really gets to me is the army national guard is advertising in spanish on the radio!!!!  During Rush and Sean Hannity...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Snip I useally don't do my homework at home. Start with spelling FOX-  Do yourself a favor and PROOFREAD and EDIT your posts.  People won't rag on you so much. BTW, how's trash and singleshot doing?  Tell 'em I said hello.

TZ is fishing with Pop and SS is working on his car, I'll be sure to tell them.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Snip I useally don't do my homework at home. Start with spelling FOX-  Do yourself a favor and PROOFREAD and EDIT your posts.  People won't rag on you so much. BTW, how's trash and singleshot doing?  Tell 'em I said hello.

And maybe use one of these....www.iespell.com/

I do....and it almost keeps me from looking as stupid as I am.  

Uh, you were buying a part for a TORINO.  Or is that Italian?

I went to Burger King this week.  The cashier (who was some sort of Asian, not Mexican) couldn't take my order or the order of the dude ahead of me correctly.  He just didn't speak enough English to do it.  Very annoying.

No habla el ranto

Bleh, you should try it down here in California.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I almost can't believe I'm saying it, but I agree with FOX- 100% on this one. I just gotta ask... Are you still 13? Two years later? 14 1/2.

Your that young?
Wow, I thought you had to be at least 14 9/16ths

Don't like it? Then move somewhere else where everyone speaks english. Last time I checked this was the land of the free and people can do what they want and speak whatever language they want.


Or maybe we should cater society to YOUR needs.

Quoted: I went to Burger King this week.  The cashier (who was some sort of Asian, not Mexican) couldn't take my order or the order of the dude ahead of me correctly.  He just didn't speak enough English to do it.  Very annoying.

That sucks, I went to a Burger King here in NH a while back.

I was in a hurry and didn't check the order.....I get home....two burgers, large fry, coke.....looks OK.

I realize my first hamburger seemed a little light....lifted the top bun...no burger inside, condiments, pickles but no burger.....same with the other Bunburger......

A quick phone call to Burgerking....The Manager was very apologetic and said they would make it right....Ok, I said, but I still want to know what sort of an idiot puts pickles, mustard and ketchup in an empty bun....The manager lowered her voice and told me the employment office had placed a Somali girl with them, she didn't know a word of english and they had been unable teach her even the most simple task....the girl was on her way out I was told.

It seems that our Democrat Mayor has signed us up for a federal refugee resettlement program...so Manchester NH. has several thousand new residents just off the boat from africa, who have no skills, no english, and have no idea what 15 degree below zero feels like.  I feel bad for these poor people, but I will feel even worst when we get our new tax bill.

Aye caramba!!! Que bola de pinche maricones putos tenemos aqui esta noche!!!........

Dont worry, if there is a problem the government will take care of it.

Quoted: Apparantely you've never been to a border state. Everything is in Spanish/English (in that order usually).

and Walmart parking lots make you feel like your in mexco do to all the mexico plates.

Quoted: Don't like it? Then move somewhere else where everyone speaks english. Last time I checked this was the land of the free and people can do what they want and speak whatever language they want. Or maybe we should cater society to YOUR needs.

The United States is my native country...

When I go into a store in the States, I expect to speak ENGLISH....

No Hablemo Engles..... No get my dinero,,,comprende?

If you plan to live in the States permanently, have the common courtesy to learn the local language.



If I wanted to live in Mexico, I would learn some Spanish...

Same here, as I am learning some Korean to communicate with the locals better...

Well, korea and mexico don't have a history of being a open and democratic society that welcomes all.

I find it ridiculous that we have some survivalists here who are completely prepared for TEOTWAWKI or when the SHTF, but social change freaks you out? Sorry, unless you have a great (legal) idea for stopping illegal immigrants the government hasn't thought of then you'll just have to adapt to the change our society is going through. If you don't like it, too bad, because pretty soon this country is going to be native to many american born mexicans.

Like I said, if you want to live in a place where there are no spanish speakers, you'll have to move to an area of the US that isn't a big target for immigration... and that area is getting smaller and smaller.

Me? I say, learn spanish por favor. I worked for a human resources company that was working with two hardcore republicans running the day and night labor shift at a CD replication factory (Microsoft and sattelite corp. stuff). When I first came, they wanted me to get more english speakers. I complied, and got some more english speakers to work for them, because I don't speak Espanol myself. The english speakers unfortuantely, were unreliable, whinier, lazier and unwilling to work the conditions (which were all legal) for long. Truth is, what Mexico's president said about mexicans willing to work jobs that "even blacks" aren't willing to do is true...

After that, I changed my stance on illegal immigrants. I still got effing pissed when one without insurance hit my beloved car!!! haha

Edit: Said repubs were right of the right of the right. But after the summer, they came to realize that their mexican workforce was much more reliable, dependable, and valuable... even though they didn't speak english, :)

Quoted: Well, korea and mexico don't have a history of being a open and democratic society that welcomes all. I find it ridiculous that we have some survivalists here who are completely prepared for TEOTWAWKI or when the SHTF, but social change freaks you out? Sorry, unless you have a great (legal) idea for stopping illegal immigrants the government hasn't thought of then you'll just have to adapt to the change our society is going through. If you don't like it, too bad, because pretty soon this country is going to be native to many american born mexicans. Like I said, if you want to live in a place where there are no spanish speakers, you'll have to move to an area of the US that isn't a big target for immigration... and that area is getting smaller and smaller. Me? I say, learn spanish por favor. I worked for a human resources company that was working with two hardcore republicans running the day and night labor shift at a CD replication factory (Microsoft and sattelite corp. stuff). When I first came, they wanted me to get more english speakers. I complied, and got some more english speakers to work for them, because I don't speak Espanol myself. The english speakers unfortuantely, were unreliable, whinier, lazier and unwilling to work the conditions (which were all legal) for long. Truth is, what Mexico's president said about mexicans willing to work jobs that "even blacks" aren't willing to do is true... After that, I changed my stance on illegal immigrants. I still got effing pissed when one without insurance hit my beloved car!!! haha Edit: Said repubs were right of the right of the right. But after the summer, they came to realize that their mexican workforce was much more reliable, dependable, and valuable... even though they didn't speak english, :)

There are no areas untouched.

I live in NH, our spanish speaking community is sufficiently large that retailers are having to hire spanish speakers to deal with them. Whats wrong with this? These spanish speaking employees often speak little or no english, and are functionally illiterate, which greatly limits their value as employees. I went into an Advance Auto Parts store recently, to get a new alternator, the counter girl did not understand english and summoned a young man to help me, he spoke limited english, but was not able to look up my part on their system, it not being in spanish. The non-spanish store manager finally came out front and took over.

I once worked retail myself, and I can tell you having such employees on staff who are so limited, is like dragging an anchor.

And we have Somalis, Russians, Arabs, Pakistanis, in sizable numbers, fortunately these people quickly learn english, they have no choice, there are no "crutches" for these people. There are no Russian, Somali, Arab speakers working in stores and gov offices, its sink or swim for them.

Its amazing how fast people learn english when they have to. That young Somali girl I mentioned in a previous post, I bet she speaks english by now. She has no choice.

There are two languages spoken here in Korea...

Korean and English...

Knowing english will get you around... but it is polite to learn the Korean language and customs.

English is probably one of the most valuable languages to know.. as it is an international language.

Spanish is a little known language in this part of the world....

Uh....  getting my soap box out....

I work construction.   By in large these very folks you scorn have built most evertything around here.   These are the people working the jobs most 'gringos' (like myself) won't take.   By inlarge most of them are hard working folk... the classic American immigrant.

There is a problem with immigrant workers, but it is not the workers.   The problem is flawed immigration system/laws and a pourus but dangerous border.   If forces them to buy cars but never get a drivers license, register their vehicles or insure them.  They sweat all day to earn tons of cash but never can buy their own home or open a bank account (cause their 'papers' are good enogh to fill out an I-9 but not good enough for the DMV or banks).   So they get robbed by low life scum that know that (usually 'whites' or other 'hyphenated' americans).    So they are then forced to buy guns illegally to protect themselves (hell if they call the cops they could get deported).  Its messed up, and I believe Bush's plan is a hell of a lot better than the cluster we got going on now.  

If you don't believe me, come on down to Florida, work all day with me on a roof with my mexicans for about a month.    After you see how hard these guys are then I'll give your opinion a bit of credit.   But until you walk in their shoes its all just hot air.

[/soap box]

ETA:   My business partner came over as an illegal.   Married a women with papers and is a grand contributor to society, and Speaks English.   After 13 years in the millitary, I couldn't think of a better guy to have in a fighting hole with me.

Quoted: Uh....  getting my soap box out.... I work construction.   By in large these very folks you scorn have built most everything around here.   These are the people working the jobs most 'gringos' (like myself) won't take.   By inlarge most of them are hard working folk... the classic American immigrant. There is a problem with immigrant workers, but it is not the workers.   The problem is flawed immigration system/laws and a porous but dangerous border.   If forces them to buy cars but never get a drivers license, register their vehicles or insure them.  They sweat all day to earn tons of cash but never can buy their own home or open a bank account (cause their 'papers' are good enough to fill out an I-9 but not good enough for the DMV or banks).   So they get robbed by low life scum that know that (usually 'whites' or other 'hyphenated' Americans).    So they are then forced to buy guns illegally to protect themselves (hell if they call the cops they could get deported).  Its messed up, and I believe Bush's plan is a hell of a lot better than the cluster we got going on now.   If you don't believe me, come on down to Florida, work all day with me on a roof with my Mexicans for about a month.    After you see how hard these guys are then I'll give your opinion a bit of credit.   But until you walk in their shoes its all just hot air. [/soap box]

If you're referring to illegals....then...

...To walk in their shoes I would have to illegally sneak in to a foreign country, drive down the labor market by accepting wages no legal resident can live on and get pissed off when they treat me for being a criminal for having committed a crime.

There is no question that many, if not most of these people are just as you say, good hard working folks. But they have, by coming here as they did, created the very situation that makes life difficult for them.

And as for being "Classic American Immigrants", my family immigrated to America legally, worked in textile mills, some of them died in those hell holes. My grandmother lost several fingers in a mill when she was a young girl, my grandfather shoveled coal 15 hours a day, six days a week to keep the boilers running in a mill. And they were the 2nd generation to do so. There was no welfare, no dental plans, no free clinics to go to if your kid gets sick. My immigrant family worked for three generations, clawing their way up from poverty, serving in every war, some dieing for this country.  

All this so that I and my family can live as we do.

They are the "Classic American Immigrants" it is they and many millions like them that built this country.

The real issue is'nt about immigration,it's PIE! Some of the most gorgeous women in the world are Latinas.How can you possibly expect to get some of that high quality poontang if you can't hold a decent conversation in spanish? I'm not talking about prostitutes. Learn spanish=PIE.

Quoted: If you're referring to illegals....then... ...To walk in their shoes I would have to illegally sneak in to a foreign country, drive down the labor market by accepting wages no legal resident can live on and get pissed off when they treat me for being a criminal for having committed a crime.

Again, walk a while in their shoes.   I felt exactly the same as you about 1 year ago.

But you are wrong on the wages... they get paid well.. my workers make around $150-$300 a day!  They all provide me with the proper papers though... fill out w-2's and I-9's

They do work that no body else would do...   Ie get up on a hot roof all day and work all day.    They show up and work hard.  I haven't found a gringo willing to do it.

As for the rest of your quote below... if you rid of the illegals working here with fake papers, you'd kill social security in less than 7 years, loose about 15% of your federal tax revenue... etc  They pay in but don't collect anything near what they pay in.

There is no question that many, if not most of these people are just as you say, good hard working folks. But they have, by coming here as they did, created the very situation that makes life difficult for them.

They didn't create it, but answered the call.   You may not feel that way, but they came to the land of opportunity, but the land won't give them the chance to get a legal status.

I'm starting the process right now to leagally immigrate a fella who is great at construction, but I know is an Illegal so I won't hire him if he crosses illegally.    Trust me the system is broke... its the systems fault.  Only you and I can change the system.

And its pretty simple...  give them a legal alternative...  non imigrant worker status, then build a wall along the border.   problem solved.  (thats pretty much the bush administrations plan)

Don't blame the pawns in this.   Fix the system.

As for your classic immigrants...  vs the illegal mexican....  the only difference is that yours (and mine) had a system that legally allowed them to come and get their fingers chopped off...  the country today is still being built on the backs of immigrants.... whether they got papers or not.

I've said my peace.  

Top_Prop.. OUT

And as for being "Classic American Immigrants", my family immigrated to America legally, worked in textile mills, some of them died in those hell holes. My grandmother lost several fingers in a mill when she was a young girl, my grandfather shoveled coal 15 hours a day, six days a week to keep the boilers running in a mill. And they were the 2nd generation to do so. There was no welfare, no dental plans, no free clinics to go to if your kid gets sick. My immigrant family worked for three generations, clawing their way up from poverty, serving in every war, some dieing for this country.   All this so that I and my family can live as we do. They are the "Classic American Immigrants" it is they and many millions like them that built this country.

I believe strongly in personal responsibility, and if someone breaks the law to come here, they made a choice, the "difficulty's" created are the result of that choice.

As for them wanting a better life, God only knows how many people would like to come here and have a better life.

What ever their legal status, they should speak english if they intend to live here, by not learning english they are hurting both themselves and our society in general.

I've met many immigrants from the mid east, far east, Russia, even Canadians....who manage to learn english in a remarkably short time. (Well, maybe not the Canadians)

We just make it easier for spanish speaking peoples, to live here without learning english.

Which is why my ATM machine communicates in spanish unless I push a button to select english.

I just started teaching at a high school.  Half of my first period class can't speak English at all.  Why do they come to school at all, if they are just going to look at their teachers like they have 3 heads?

My supervisor said to get a Spanish-English dictionary (my $), and "Do the best you can"  Even when I translate things, they still look at me like I have three heads because that way they don't have to do the work.  Smart kids.

Eventhough it has no effect, I am still supposed to spend the extra hour figuring out how to translate my entire lesson to accommodate these kids.

Frustrating, dosen't begin to describe

Quoted: Quoted: You should move to Northern Mexico Southern California. NC has way too many as it is.

Amen brother. ALL the Car Parts stores and Home Improvement / Hardware store around here (NC) have the dual language signage. Along with any state agency or paperwork.

We used to laugh at the Canadians with their twin languages/signage up in Montreal/Quebec. Doesn't seem so funny now does it?