Fan, are you basing this on your opinion and emotions or the reality of working with your states laws and judicial system on a daily basis?  Im not badmouthing Greenhorn or his actions in anyway.  I was simply stating how the system tends to work.  If he wants to try to press charges, good luck to him.  I was just trying to warn that its unlikely to procede.

AR15.com member sharkman629 is related to the former president of the Middletown club. IM him and tell him I told you to talk to him about it and he'd probably get you the red carpet.

For the rest of you, the land owner has an arrangement with the club and is also a board member. The officers of the club are elected positions. The club has 320 +/- members who each pay $45 a year in dues + any special event fees.

The land owner submitted his statement during these proceedings and alternately was equally afraid because greenhorn was supposedly brandishing an assault rifle and refused to put it down (supposedly). It's their word against each other's word since nobody else was there (except for greenhorn's brother). No other witnesses. The club agreed to not press charges (so they say) and handle it themselves internally to keep the incident out of the court, and subsequently keep a "black mark" off their record - so they say. Keep in mind the average age of the club member is probably 55 or even older.

It really sucks because it's a nice facility and has so much potential being in a rural area traditionally friendly to all types of gun ownership. But this situation does demonstrate just how narrow of a mentality most gun owners have about firearms and RKBA. The one guy who was the most vocal about greenhorn not being there in person is the big NRA banner waver of the place. When the chips are down, these are NOT going to be the guys who defend freedom's bells and they will let us hang at the end of the rope.

I didn't realize when I rejoined last month that I was going to have such an uphill fight here with these fogies. They used to have full auto days and at one point, the club was really rogue. I do know they ended the full auto days because some neighbor farmer made them fix his roof (claimed the hail of bullets damaged his roof and made it leak). They did have one other incident where 2 .30-06 rounds lodged in the back of a sofa in a neighbor's house. As a result, one range is not used anymore.

Anyway... it's a shitty situation all the way around and while there was probably fault on both sides, greenhorn appears to have gotten the shaft.

"They agreed to not pursue charges against greenhorn if the club handled it on their own. Kind of a railroad job the other way."

wtf? exactly WHAT could greenhorn be "charged" with" please tell me.

greenhorn, move up here to n.e. ohio and i'll get you into as many full auto ranges as you want.

what a complete fucking load of bubba-assed bullshit.

ben, i recommend you resign from that pack of communist back-stabbing bastards asap! they are a disgrace to america and to firearms owners.

this story makes me sick to my stomach.

greenhorn, i hope you can make it up here for the next bulletfest. i'll show you how free americans STILL live.

what horseshit! makes my head reel to know this happened in ohio! what complete fucking morons!

ben,

 can you get me their email or physical address? i want to send these fuckheads you call a "gunclub" a free bulletfest video and a letter giving them a piece of my mind.

 what a bunch of fucking morons.

 disgraceful! obscene! and fucking disgusting!

morons!

OOOhhhhhh!  All those nasty assault weapons!, and in  Kali to boot.  Nice pics 'ug'.  Karl.

[url]http://fsc.izzitso.com[/url]

I don't know what the mailing addy is, I think it's a P.O. Box.

The president is Barb Virag, VP is Harold Steiner. JJ Wikle is the Executive Officer who always discusses legal and political updates at the club meetings. I can probably get you addresses for each if you want them.


EDITED TO ADD:

[i]"The whole of the Bill [of Rights] is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals … It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of." Albert Gallatin of the New York Historical Society, October 7, 1789
--- Albert Gallatin[/i]

Taken from their website.... [:D]

[b]ALL YOUR SHOOTING RANGES ARE BELONG TO US!

YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE MAKE YOUR TIME

FOR GREAT JUSTICE[/b]

Time to go bumb fire

Fuck them and anyone else who doesnt like my AR15

If that motherfucker would have pulled a gun out on me I would have probably lost it. I don't have a very good temper when it comes to threats and it's a good chance that one of us would have ended up shot that day if he wouldn't back down.

Screw the landowner, I'd sue the gun club for allowing this type of activity to occur. Regardless of badge or no badge, nobody has a right to pull a gun on you. The club is creating an unsafe atmosphere by allowing the hot-head land owner to run around pulling his weapon on anyone he feels like. What was he going to do if you tried to leave before the cops showed up? Shoot you? Fuck him too and name him in the lawsuit.

I can't believe that anyone would want to be associated with these fuckwads after this episode.

GH, I'd definately file suit over this, if for no other reason than to put that "black mark" on the club.  You have a witness, he doesn't, it's his word, which sounds shady and he's already been in court for crap like this aginst you and your witness, so I think the odds are on your side, good ol boy county or not.

I'm sorry to hear about these problems but I would like to mention a couple points in defense of the landowner. [:o]

The quoted section describes a couple incidents where bullets left the property and did real damage to sombody else's property. A 30-06 round lodging in the back of someody's sofa certainly fits my definition of unsafe. Suppose that round hit someone?

Also keep in mind that if somebody ever did get hurt either at the range or by a stray bullet the lawyers won't just sue the gun club - they will also sue the landowner. So its in his best interest to try to keep the rounds inside the range.

I was wondering if the gun club has a separate range for full auto / bump firing? Ever been in a lane next to somebody firing full auto who doesn't seem to quite know what they are doing? Kind of scary, isn't it? Lets say some kid shows up with something beefier, like an M14. They start out shooting level but by the time the gun runs dry the muzzle is elevated about 20 degrees or so. Sure its fun, but where did all those rounds go? In somebody's sofa or worse?

I"m not trying to defend all the landowners actions but just trying to point out some of the safety aspects of it. And also if something ever does happen, you can bet the landowner will end up getting sued for something the gun club did on his property. [:)]

I also find the Second Amendment quotes on their site ironic as all get out.

Maybe this could be your basis for "emotional distress", by this time you had several impartial witnesses to your crying.

Do they allow shooting of non-paper targets?  Do they allow bump-firing?

I looked at the range locator on NRA.org, and they're not listed.  Do they have a website?[/quote]

[url]http://www.middletownsc.org/[/url]

You can shoot whatever kind of target you want.  Max. range is 200 yds.  The only thing they frown on, as far as I know, is full auto.

first, what kind of FUCKING MORON lives downrange from a firing line?

second, what kind of moron then complains that bullets are leaving the range?

third, wtf is a gun range for if you can't shoot full auto?

fourth, if the berm is "unsafe" for full auto fire, it sure as hell isn't safe" enough for a fucking remchester...of ANY calibre. jeezus, a .22 rf travels over a mile.

fifth, i don't give a flying fig if the MORON landowner is on the board of trustees or has a gold plated deed to his property, if he threatens folks with his pistol over bump-firing, he is a certifiable FUCKING MORON.

sixth, who was there first, mr. moron and his bullet riddled sofa or the range? if the range was there first, mr. moron is a complete moron for building where he did. if mr. moron's house was there first, the club is/was staffed with FUCKING MORONS for building/operating a range there...with mr. moron located downrange.

seventh, only a fucking moron would think of "pressing charges" against greenhorn! wth kind of morons are members of this, so called, gun club?

i do NOT advocate sueing these morons...just reinforcing their complete fucking moron-ness by flooding them with letters of comendation for their totally moronic behavior.

have one of the club's representative morons post to this thread. i would love to hold a public conversation with them...if they are capable of such!

it's a free country and these morons are free to run their little moron society in any fashion they choose, i guess. but, their idiocy only reinforces my opinion that 90% of the folks on this planet are braindead.

MORONS! this makes me ashamed to be from ohio.

What a POS "gun" club. I would never consider being a member of a shit hole like that. Be glad you are rid of them GHorn. Now you dont have to be part of the stuck up, commie, afraid, discriminating ASShole club. Geeez what a joke.  

except for BENDOVER [;)]

FWIW... I didn't know all of this was going on while I was reupping my membership. I called today to inquire about joining the Middletown Club. It's only 20 mins away from me.

CAPMYBOB... they built the new range facing the direction of the house well after the homeowner was there. The backstop is really high, but morons being morons, someone managed to lob a 30-06 over 3/4 mile and plant it in someone's living room.

I will likely not get any of the existing board members on here. Hell, half of them think a cell phone is from the starship Enterprise.

Yes?? and just what did their reply say??

"Hell, half of them think a cell phone is from the starship Enterprise."

lmao!!!

i here ya, brother.

we are fighting a moron neighbor at tusco. he will be escorted off the range property next time he stops in to bitch. the cops and prosecuter are sick of this fool and his bitching (a 40-something jerk that built his house next to a range...and then started complaining about the noise?!?!?!). everyone ignores him, now...and that pisses him off even more.

the moron that bitched about stray lead at bulletfest also built his house downrange from the firingline long after the range was established.

wth? do these morons think themselves to be bulletproof?

dunno why this club built a range facing a house? bullets do weird things. that was just asking for trouble. but then, that kind of decision making sounds perfectly in synch with the other moronic behavior you and greenhorn described.

again, i am saddened to hear these blithering idiots live in ohio.

i agree, greenhorn is miles ahead to put these belligerant bastards behind him. for his $46, he got a cheap lesson in stupidity.

He never ID himself and detained you with a weapon.

File a civil suit against him for False Arrest. If it was not a "citizens arrest" then his detention of you, with a weapon, was criminal false imprisonment.

If I lived in Ohio I would pay the $45.00 to join this range. Just so I could go bump fire a BetaCmag from my loudest MB equiped AR, in an attempt to give the land owner a stroke.

Screw the letter, I'd go to the next meeting, and DEMAND to adress the members! Bring some good historical 2nd Amendment material with you and SHAME them!
Then I'd resign from the NRA, and join a REAL pro-gun group.

[url]http://www.gunowners.org/index.html#bodlet[/url]

GH im also a young and know what its like man. Me and a friend used to go to this rifle range in norcal, the one in chabot. we never tried anything crazy over there like bump firing. wed shoot 1 shot a little less in a second, and the guy in the bullhorn would start yelling. when i went up to the front counter to apolgize and get more ammo, some guy in line tried to talk down to me. i should of gave him a kleenex and told him to stop crying, instead i just smiled.


mini 14...big fucking deal..

Man with pistol...man with SAR1!

Hmmmm...Sounds like he is the ignorant one.

You are better off not being around those guys!

Just live and learn.

BigDozer66

Fuck gun ranges. Don't you guys have public lands where you can go and have your fun? That's what we use our deserts for. And for off roading.

I sure don't have land to shoot at.  My parents have an acre and a half and our backyard faces a tall woody hill, but it's in a subdivision, and it's not a good place to do any real shooting.  I've fired my SAR-1 a few times into the mud, and fired my shotgun many times (since I don't have to worry about ricochet or bullets falling on something far away), but I don't want to do much shooting there, what with all the neighbors.

Bottom line, FUCK THEM and FUCK that shitty range.  

What a bunch of old women.  "No full auto, no bump firing, no non-paper targets"  Cry baby, CRY!  Pussies!

That old bastard should of damn well told Greenhorn who he was and what he was doing there BEFORE interrogating him.  He could of at least been nice about asking what was up.  

There was no fucking need to call Sheriffs or anyone else.  He should of just taken down Greenhorn's name, aksed him to leave (because you couldn't show your membership--provided of course, the old bastard had the authority to even ask people to leave in the first place) and passed the incident on to the club officers.  Sounds like Greenhorn didn't really give anyone any trouble, so why all the histrionics?

That old c*cks&cker was just waiting to pounce on someone for violating all the stupid rules at that shitty range anyway.  File this incident away and move on with life Greenhorn.  You don't need that hassle.  

Bendover, find a new range.   And if all the ranges in the area are similiar, I feel for you.  

Lumpy,  I'm simply stating what [b]I[/b] would do in his place, and I've acknowleged that what I would do may not be practical.  As for your line about the little old man vs a militia type with an evil assult weapon, thats bullshit.  Yes, the sheeple may buy it, but the justice department isn't [b]supposed to[/b].  They're [b]supposed[/b] to deal with [b]facts[/b] not emotions.

Apparently you deal with the justice system every day, and therefore you're deeming yourself qualified to speak while anyone who doesn't deal with the system every day is not.  Well, I say fuck that attitude, I've repeatedly stated that my post is what I would do, nothing more.

I'm done arguing here, as its pointless.

GH, again, sorry to hear about what happened, it really sucks.

FOTBR out.

Fan,
I think we're on the same page here, just reading it differently.  That line [b]IS[/b] bullshit. Im not saying its right, just thats the way it is.  The justice system is a dog and pony show most of the time.  You start with the prosecution that looks at criminal cases as throwing dice for what makes them look good (read quick wins with minimal work, i.e. plea bargin or not even proceding in the first place), judges that see them self next in the pecking order to God Himself, and the exact same "sheeple" (media spoon-fed non-thinkers) you mentioned will compose probably at a minimum 60% of the jury.  Im not trying to convince Green to NOT do it, Im just trying to prepare him for the good possibility of being disappointed by the system.  Green has every right to pursue this to the fullest extent of the law (within whatever laws OH has covering this).  It doesnt mean that "The System" will, unfortunately.  Even then, if it did go forward, attorneys use the same treachery the media does. I was trying to illustrate that with my "little old man" scenario.  Reality [b]IS[/b] perception in the eyes of a judge or jury.

But its a range with many members...

Lumpy,
 OK, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to say there.  I thought you were saying....oh nevermind, GH got screwed over, we all feel bad for what happened to him and wish things had been different.

FOTBR

I've never been to a supervised range that allowed bump-firing, full auto and such.  Hell, at the Andy Dalton range outside of Springfield, if you shoot two rounds within a couple of seconds, it is grounds for range-privilege revocation.  I still go there because it's close and the other nearby (unsupervised) range is more dangerous than hitchhiking back to Missouri from P.T.'s in East St. Louis at 4:00am.
When I want to have fun with the toys, I am forced to drive an hour to the parent's farm.

It was not nighttime.  I don't know where you got that idea.

Fan,

Im with you brother [beer]

I had the exact same thought.  As the situation was explained, as soon as his revolver came out, my second, loaded mag would have gone in that SAR and he's have been facing a very nervous,  ready to shoot him, person.

I only had one person unholster a gun while questioning me (another land owner who took exception to my hunting on the National Forest bordering his land) about what I was doing, he got a decent look at the chrome lining of my SLR-95MB.  He calmed right down though....


Greenhorn, I think you got screwed, and if I were you , I'd walk away and not get anymore heartburn over it.  You got shanked but no use letting them get any more of your time or mental energy.  Go find yourself a good place to shoot where the people aren't as stupid.

If you want to get in your last jibe, just send the head officer and the land owner a card that says, "after you die of old age in a couple years, I'm going to come bump fire my AR at your club in your honor."  or something and leave it at that.

Too bad you didn't have any Tannerite you could have touched off at the same time....  [:D]

It wouldn't matter if it was a "citizen's arrest" or not.  Private citizen's cannot make arrests based on probable cause.  Greenhorn was [b]in fact[/b] a member of the club and therefore was not trespassing.  Greenhorn not having his membership card on him was a violation of club policy, not a crime.  Also, the AR-15 was [b]in fact[/b] not an automatic weapon, therefore the landowner's detention of him [b]at gunpoint[/b] constituted an unlawful imprisonment and an assault with a deadly weapon.

It's not that important, but several people have said it so I may as well correct it - I was bump-firing with my SAR-1, not my AR-15.  My AR-15 can't be bump-fired.  The trigger is too hard to pull and the recoil is too low because of the muzzle brake.

Good lord, I really must be lucky with my range after reading these posts.

We not only allow full-auto, we have an annual, club sponsored New Year's day machine gun shoot! (and we detonate dynamite for the finale!)  

Bump firing?  Most of the members will instruct you on it.  

Many of our members are ex-military (and several ex-SF, Ranger, SEAL etc.) and definitely LOVE firearms.  

It's just as common to see a family with .22s as it is to see ARs, FALs, M1As, M-96s, .50 BMG Rifles, or various tricked out "precision" rifles.  Not to mention the class II manufacturer who frequents the range with his full-auto Glock conversions, MP-5s and various suppressed weapons!

Last time I was out, no one was there, so I set up a tactical course in front of the "official" firing line (used several plastic barrels as cover, moved between the barrels and shot steel "pigs" at 100 and 200 from various firing positions).  This is not uncommon, and is actually encouraged by the officers, so long as you keep it safe.  We have enough props that you are only limited by your imagination.  

Get out of the city boys and find you a nice shooting area where you can cut loose and really have some fun.  

File a complaint with the local law enforcement. If nothing else, the complaint is put into the record so that the next time this moron brandishes a weapon on someone, the LEO will take it more seriously. BTW, the complaint will cost you nothing but time.

BTW, Greenhorn, I must commend you on the great reserve you displayed by unloading and placing your weapons on the table while the moron is threatening you at gunpoint. I don't think I would do the same. I would probably have left one of the rifles loaded and in my hands after he "asked" for a demonstration at gunpoint.

Finally, I believe that the gun club will want you to be quitely gone for good. This is because they want the range desperately and you have the upper hand, legally. Judging solely on your description of the event and the fact that BenDover has not refuted anything you said, you deserve to be with a better class of gunowners.

Preble County is about as rural as Ohio gets.

The bolt action boys can be mighty snooty sometimes.  The best way to put them in their place is to outshoot them.  I did some seated iron sight shooting at a local "fat boy bolt club" and you should have seen the guys eyes when we went down and looked at targets at 200 yards.  I let the guy next to me shoot my rifle after that and he had a nice smile when he was done...never shot one of those before....nice!

If I were you, I would at least file a complaint with the sheriff against the turd for brandishing a firearm and unlawful imprisonment.  The sheriff was there and knows you did nothing illegal, and if the turd was holding a gun when he got there and you weren't, well...that's even better.

The Andy Dalton range is a nice facility - but was built mainly for sighting in hunting rifles - and it shows.

Where are you in MO?

Springfield.  Familiar with  the area?