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Posted: 5/5/2024 10:44:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Buckner also stressed the importance of firearm storage, noting many of these weapons they encounter with Glock switches are stolen from cars, from homes, or wherever else you may not have it locked away.
So criminals are stealing guns with Glock switches from other criminals. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 10:48:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigfugly: just gonna put this here...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1vqmvx105EThat was more like “a demonstration of our weapon capabilities and our willingness to use them”! Not a good demonstration of their training perhaps. Suppressing fire for LE is more like doing a downed officer/citizen rescue, and punching rounds into something solid that will stop the bullet, since you don’t know where the threat actually is and who else might possibly be there. Examples- foundation walls, headers over the door/window, corners, chimneys, etc. If you know there are no innocents inside, and the guy is shooting at you, and you need to rescue someone, shoot some fucking pyro smoke or CS thru the windows, catch the place on fire, who cares at that point. Shoot into any available spot they might be hiding, make the rescue. But situations are few and far between where you know nobody else is inside… |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 10:50:15 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tc2129: I was part of a task force for a while and did training a class that brought other task force guys from other areas. I wish I could remember where this one guy was from, but he was with some small size Sheriff’s Office attached to a federal task force. He had an issued Glock 18 as well as a full auto 9mm AR that took Glock mags. He had a chest rig that carried I think 4 33 round mags, plus he had a few more pistol mags. I’ve got a select fire SBR that’s agency issued, but I only shoot it semi. I also have an agency issued 870. Was it Lee Weems? |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 10:54:07 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Urimaginaryfrnd: Police don’t use “suppressive fire” they use “aimed controlled fire”. You may wonder what the difference is. Police have a responsibility to aim and control where each shot goes. Thats a semantics game......we call it suppressive fire since that is exactly what it is doing |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 10:55:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NCPatrolAR]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UV18: We have had an approved weapon list for decades. You can take the issued gun or get one on your own that meets the requirements. They even were giving you $500 to buy a gun. That went away and so did most issued handguns and rifles. Shotguns are still assigned per vehicle or person. Only issued rifles I still have are MGs. Size of your agency? Non issued handguns are even more rare in this region (I dont know of a place doing it). |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 10:55:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HCM3156]
[#6]
Originally Posted By mpdphil: Call me stupid, but why would a bad guy with a “glock switch” force departments to re-evaluate what their patrol officers carry? Do LEO’s now all of a sudden need a selectfire option to counter an illegal glock switch? If so, why? I’ve been an urban LEO for over 20 years now and see no reason to re-evaluate what we carry just because of a glock switch. I’ve heard the old “well if the shitheads have ‘em, we should to” argument and when I ask how that would change anything, crickets. As LEO’s, we need to be 100% responsible for every round we fire, suppressing fire is not something civilian LEO’s should have to concern themselves with. I believe if we train officers to actually shoot accurately, you won’t get those news stories that say something to the effect of “officers fire 98 shots at the suspect and strike him twice”. I realize the adrenaline factor (I’ve been directly underfire myself both here as an LEO stateside and in Iraq as an Infantryman), but c’mon! The story Did you read the article that you posted? They’re essentially talking about making sure there is a patrol rifle in every on duty patrol car. Where as right now only about 1/4 of patrol cars on duty have patrol rifles. Not having a patrol rifle in every car in 2024 borders on criminal negligence. No one is talking about select fire options (other than you). If you have the experience you say you have then you should be aware that in addition to holding more rounds, rifles are easier to shoot quickly and accurately than handguns. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 10:59:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Leadlined]
[#7]
The argument for patrol carbines is the Sikh Temple shooting.
 Raw DashCam video from Oak Creek Temple shooting In the above dashcam video, Officer Murphy had his sidearm. Officer Lenda had a patrol carbine. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:02:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kc-coyote: Buckner also stressed the importance of firearm storage, noting many of these weapons they encounter with Glock switches are stolen from cars, from homes, or wherever else you may not have it locked away. So criminals are stealing guns with Glock switches from other criminals. no.........the host guns are stolen |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:05:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: I went to an Armorers course where I was the only one there who wasn't law enforcement in some context. The chief instructor made a pretty good case for agencies issuing integrally suppressed long guns simply because whatever the price of the guns is. Its going to be less than covering the medical bills of some cop who gets his eardrums blown out. As for the SWAT guys being prima donnas and wanting to feel special. That sounds like one of the most narcissistic things I've ever heard in my life and something that could get people killed. Not just cops, but extra special cops being narcissistic? No way. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:07:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Size of your agency? Non issued handguns are even more rare in this region (I dont know of a place doing it). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Originally Posted By UV18: We have had an approved weapon list for decades. You can take the issued gun or get one on your own that meets the requirements. They even were giving you $500 to buy a gun. That went away and so did most issued handguns and rifles. Shotguns are still assigned per vehicle or person. Only issued rifles I still have are MGs. Size of your agency? Non issued handguns are even more rare in this region (I dont know of a place doing it). Policing is regional. Many larger agencies have an issued weapon and then a list of optional personally owned weapons for duty use. NYPD, LAPD, LASD, Chicago PD, all have a limited list of duty gun options. FBI, ICE, DEA and U.S. Marshals, have similar policies. In Houston /Harris County TX, which seems to have the highest incident of bad guys with switches here in Texas, serial killer every uniform LEO I see is running hi -cap mags with mag extensions with one of the gun and three additional extended magazines on the person. Probably about half are now running pistol mounted optics. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:09:49 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Urimaginaryfrnd: Police don’t use “suppressive fire” they use “aimed controlled fire”. You may wonder what the difference is. Police have a responsibility to aim and control where each shot goes. My personal opinion is that at least one out of every three rifles issued should be a bolt action with a LPVO scope probably in .308 there is also value in having some access to a rifle that shoots a large heavy bullet ( 45-70, 458 SOCOM, 44 Mag etc) They are less likely to deflect when shooting through brush or glass. People still believe in "brush busting?" Let's shoot at a suspect that is obscured, what could go wrong? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:10:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crusaderf8u: The article also mentions wanting larger caliber handguns as well, which seems like a 180 flip from the recent trend of forces going to 9mm from larger caliber’s. Seems an odd choice when your justification is Glock switches cause they spray all those bullets, but want handguns with lower capacity. Seemed odd. And personally I prefer 40/10mm/45 myself but 9mm does the job just fine currently but also gives you added capacity. Neither politicians which includes most police management no reporters know anything technical about firearms. Don’t read too much into it. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:12:38 PM EDT
[#13]
All police should have at least an AR in the cruiser.
Certain patrol officers should be carrying MP7s. |
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FM, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:12:48 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Was it Lee Weems? *sideye muppet guy* It seems we may know some of the same people… |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:14:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NCPatrolAR]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HCM3156: Policing is regional. Many larger agencies have an issued weapon and then a list of optional personally owned weapons for duty use. NYPD, LAPD, LASD, Chicago PD, all have a limited list of duty gun options. FBI, ICE, DEA and U.S. Marshals, have similar policies. Thats far different than an agency that doesnt issue handguns and is all privately owned guns. Each of the places you cite issue duty guns unless something has changed |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:17:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Thats far different than an agency that doesnt issue handguns and is all privately owned guns. Each of the places you cite issue duty guns If you need a policy guide, let me know  It was a copy from LAPD that migrated to ending issuing guns. Instead, they sold them all pretty cheap instead We still have a large cache for issuing temporarily or to loan to the morons that buy a 40 because the gun shop told them it was cool and now they can't qualify because they suck. |
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FM, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:18:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: I went to an Armorers course where I was the only one there who wasn't law enforcement in some context. The chief instructor made a pretty good case for agencies issuing integrally suppressed long guns simply because whatever the price of the guns is. Its going to be less than covering the medical bills of some cop who gets his eardrums blown out. As for the SWAT guys being prima donnas and wanting to feel special. That sounds like one of the most narcissistic things I've ever heard in my life and something that could get people killed. We had to wait for a dipshit training sergeant who was also a SWAT team lead to retire before we could get rifles. His basic explanation was patrolman are too stupid to be trusted with any weapon which would defeat the soft armor they wear, therefore he forbade the firearms team to train any non-SWAT officer on any rifle platform. We were allowed Remington 870s only if personally blessed by him to have one. Conversations about plate carriers for non-SWAT officers were also a non-starter. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:18:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: I initially read the caliber thing as a handgun caliber thing, but that could also mean going with more rifles if you think about it. Theres nothing else talking about changing handguns in the article. On rereading the article I believe you’re correct. They just chose their words poorly for what they’re trying to say since technically an AR is a smaller caliber but more powerful as it’s a rifle round. Like the spokesman was trying to sound techie. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:21:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NCPatrolAR]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UV18: If you need a policy guide, let me know Nah; Im actually cool with department issued firearms and think it should be on the agency to provide them; not the individual officer |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:21:33 PM EDT
[#20]
Did the M16A1s from DRMO for free program get stopped?
Gunsmiths were even making M4gereys for free if they kept the parts kits. Cop neighbor had one without an auto sear for his patrol rifle. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:23:13 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By i_tell_you_what: I think mp5sd style guns would be perfect for something like this. MPX if you want better ergos. It would be helpful to know what kind of long gun deployment policies are at play here too. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By i_tell_you_what: Originally Posted By Moon-Watcher: As a former LE range instructor, it gives me chills to think about how the hell we would have taught cops to shoot effectively with submachine pistols. It was tough enough to get them up to speed on AR-15s, and full auto M16s. I think mp5sd style guns would be perfect for something like this. MPX if you want better ergos. It would be helpful to know what kind of long gun deployment policies are at play here too. Have you ever shot anyone or been shot at? Part of the rationale for law-enforcement long guns is not just the ease of use and increased hip potential but the increased power that actual rifle cartridges or shotguns provide. How much first-hand experience do you have with MP5SD’s or with SIG MPX? The MP5 SD Has internal porting to bleed off velocity, turning standard 9 mm ammo, into subsonic, essentially giving you the ballistics of 380 pistol ammunition. My agency currently issues limited numbers of the SIG MPX. It has been a complete s**t show. The AR 15 like manual of arms is great. However, the guns are not anywhere near reliable enough for duty use. With the MCX chambered in a real rifle caliber like 5.56, The gas system has enough pressure to essentially be self cleaning. When you scale the same system down to use 9 mm pistol ammunition at 1/3 the pressure, and you have additional unburnt powder from the less efficient pistol cartridge you have problems in as few as a few hundred rounds. Right now, our MPX will go somewhere between 1000 and 1500 rounds without complete cleaning of the gas system using our duty ammo which is 124 grain +P Gold Dot. If we run them with the SIG supplied suppressors that round count is 500 or less with duty ammo. Our Winchester practice ammo while accurate and reliable is particularly dirty and we’ve had to stop using it in the MPX. While I’m a big fan of suppressors for law enforcement, use integrity suppressed weapons tend to have issues with heat buildup. Trying to conduct a full or half-day training session with an entirely suppressed weapon that is so hot you can’t even hold the hand with gloves on is also a s**t show. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:24:02 PM EDT
[#22]
Can't WAIT for my dept-issue MP-7!!!
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:24:42 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gamma762: They seem to have resources to track down anyone who orders a "fuel filter" or the wrong kind of thread adapter, if they wanted to track these down I'm sure they could do it with existing manpower. They're making a choice to not conduct enforcement against that demographic. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gamma762: Originally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By d16man: And yet they won't address the issue that glock switches are not that important to the AFT. There are so many the only realistic way to address it would be to hire more ATF agents. Let's not go that route. They seem to have resources to track down anyone who orders a "fuel filter" or the wrong kind of thread adapter, if they wanted to track these down I'm sure they could do it with existing manpower. They're making a choice to not conduct enforcement against that demographic. This. X10. No more AFT agents are needed to take care of this Glock switch problem. Crazy idea…maybe have these existing AFT officers quit climbing up honest FFL holders asses and door knocking law abiding gun owners to do inventory fishing expeditions and all their other BS. Maybe they could throw a few of these vibrant blatant violators in jail for 10 years. They (switch boys) literally post vids and pics on instagram and FB. Couldn’t be easier case to crack. The threat of a 10 year vacation has sure kept me from having a few DIAS and other toys. I know for damn sure they wouldn’t hesitate to throw my cracker ass in jail. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:30:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: I went to an Armorers course where I was the only one there who wasn't law enforcement in some context. The chief instructor made a pretty good case for agencies issuing integrally suppressed long guns simply because whatever the price of the guns is. Its going to be less than covering the medical bills of some cop who gets his eardrums blown out. As for the SWAT guys being prima donnas and wanting to feel special. That sounds like one of the most narcissistic things I've ever heard in my life and something that could get people killed. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By i_tell_you_what: Originally Posted By Moon-Watcher: As a former LE range instructor, it gives me chills to think about how the hell we would have taught cops to shoot effectively with submachine pistols. It was tough enough to get them up to speed on AR-15s, and full auto M16s. I think mp5sd style guns would be perfect for something like this. MPX if you want better ergos. It would be helpful to know what kind of long gun deployment policies are at play here too. I went to an Armorers course where I was the only one there who wasn't law enforcement in some context. The chief instructor made a pretty good case for agencies issuing integrally suppressed long guns simply because whatever the price of the guns is. Its going to be less than covering the medical bills of some cop who gets his eardrums blown out. As for the SWAT guys being prima donnas and wanting to feel special. That sounds like one of the most narcissistic things I've ever heard in my life and something that could get people killed. I am a big fan of suppressed long guns (in proper rifle calibers) for law enforcement use. They should not just before SWAT or special snowflakes. HOWEVER, integrity suppressed long guns or long guns with suppressors partially under the hand guard are a NO GO. Even if though likelihood of firing more than a 30 round magazine in an actual incident is extremely low, you have to be able to train with duty weapons. I’ve conducted carbine training for an agency that had a good idea fairy in management buy them integrally suppressed AR 15s from a company called SWS (suppressed weapon systems) without consulting their firearms training staff. Luckily, they allow personally owned rifles, but the officers who attempted to use the agency issued weapons, were literally unable to hold the hand guard after two or three magazines with gloves on. The officers were attempting to fire the rifles by holding onto the sling because the hand guard was so hot. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:32:01 PM EDT
[#25]
In before board LEOs start asking for their own switches...
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:33:12 PM EDT
[#26]
The story spells it out. They don’t have enough patrol rifles and are looking at getting more and checking if their firearms training program needs improvement.
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:33:34 PM EDT
[#27]
That's funny, alot of states that wants to ban semi auto ar 15s say they are not useful for self defense that's why they can be banned? But the police want them for self defense?
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:44:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tac556: It says right in the news article that their rifle deployment ratio is quite low- they only have 100 rifles, and want 300 more. Since every cop should have a rifle in case they need to do actual serious stuff, it makes complete sense to me. Agencies that intentionally handcuff their people are foolish… <—— LE patrol rifle instructor. I think more rifles are reasonable and a better option than any pistol. Does a traffic stop now mean there is a second cop at the car on overwatch? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:44:53 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gamma762: They seem to have resources to track down anyone who orders a "fuel filter" or the wrong kind of thread adapter, if they wanted to track these down I'm sure they could do it with existing manpower. They're making a choice to not conduct enforcement against that demographic. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gamma762: Originally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By d16man: And yet they won't address the issue that glock switches are not that important to the AFT. There are so many the only realistic way to address it would be to hire more ATF agents. Let's not go that route. They seem to have resources to track down anyone who orders a "fuel filter" or the wrong kind of thread adapter, if they wanted to track these down I'm sure they could do it with existing manpower. They're making a choice to not conduct enforcement against that demographic. In the cases you were talking about, “THEY” are usually ICE /HSI, working in conjunction with ATF. Remember the C in ICE stands for customs. The people getting visits over suspicious purchases of fuel filters, and thread adapters. Are those purchasing them from overseas, usually from China. International shipments into the US require customs declarations. It doesn’t really require a tremendous amount of resources to flag purchases of items like do use fuel filters, and purported “airsoft” gun parts (like Glock switches” and then actually go out to the physical address. They are being delivered to. So maybe don’t be a cheap ass, and order your fuel filter from an American company like a good American instead of wish.com or TEMU ? The good news is this sort of thing put a real dent in the shipment of switches from China. The bad news is it has simply resulted in switches being produced here in the US. |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:46:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tveddy: Does a traffic stop now mean there is a second cop at the car on overwatch? Having 2 officers on a stop is a good thing |
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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:52:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Hesperus]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HCM3156: I am a big fan of suppressed long guns (in proper rifle calibers) for law enforcement use. They should not just before SWAT or special snowflakes. HOWEVER, integrity suppressed long guns or long guns with suppressors partially under the hand guard are a NO GO. Even if though likelihood of firing more than a 30 round magazine in an actual incident is extremely low, you have to be able to train with duty weapons. I’ve conducted carbine training for an agency that had a good idea fairy in management buy them integrally suppressed AR 15s from a company called SWS (suppressed weapon systems) without consulting their firearms training staff. Luckily, they allow personally owned rifles, but the officers who attempted to use the agency issued weapons, were literally unable to hold the hand guard after two or three magazines with gloves on. The officers were attempting to fire the rifles by holding onto the sling because the hand guard was so hot. That sounds right. The laws of thermodynamics be a harsh mistress. One of the other things that was talked about in some detail in that aforementioned class were personal anecdotes of people going to training courses with the cheapest ARs that some rural California police department had and how when they got to a certain point. Often around 500 rounds. Said ARs start to fall apart in various ways. There was also a story about a trust fund kid who showed up to a rifle course in Louisiana with a very lightweight AR that had been... allegedly cobbled together at great expense by a local gun shop. It had an aluminum BCG. It did not last long. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 12:00:58 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: The bold part......yes; officers actually do need to know what suppressive fire is and how to make use of it. Reading the article it just looks like they are going to increase the number of patrol rifles within the agency....nothing wrong with that. Above. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 12:08:53 AM EDT
[#33]
Just thinkin outloud, if the violators would be incarcerated for their full sentence when weapons are involved maybe there would not be a reason to have FA firearms carried casually.
Plus the LEO, Peace Officer would have to carry twice the normal ammunition supply. And their backup weapon, what would that become? Practice Practice Practice gets real results. That costs money and time, with medical training for officers to help their own and innocent citizens. But to the beginning, keep the animals in cages, if they choose that road lets show them where it takes them. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 12:22:24 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HRoark87: If I could get taxpayer money to buy new guns I'd come up with a new reason everyday And I agree with this statement and I've never been an LEO and never will. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 12:25:11 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Was it Lee Weems? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Originally Posted By tc2129: I was part of a task force for a while and did training a class that brought other task force guys from other areas. I wish I could remember where this one guy was from, but he was with some small size Sheriff’s Office attached to a federal task force. He had an issued Glock 18 as well as a full auto 9mm AR that took Glock mags. He had a chest rig that carried I think 4 33 round mags, plus he had a few more pistol mags. I’ve got a select fire SBR that’s agency issued, but I only shoot it semi. I also have an agency issued 870. Was it Lee Weems? I have met him as well. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 2:31:35 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: I wish it had been that easy here. I had to pull the records for every gun turned in over a three year period then pull reports on why anything larger than a pistol was turned in. I then had to pull case studies from various agencies, ballistic reports from various places, etc. I had 6-7 binders full of data and still hit brick walls at times. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Originally Posted By rb889: Fluff piece to get more money to buy more rifles. That’s all it is. Full auto glock is not much of a step up over any other handgun, save for engagements at point blank, where mag dumping 15-30 rounds into someone’s chest is viable. I wish it had been that easy here. I had to pull the records for every gun turned in over a three year period then pull reports on why anything larger than a pistol was turned in. I then had to pull case studies from various agencies, ballistic reports from various places, etc. I had 6-7 binders full of data and still hit brick walls at times. That shit sells itself. People shot with rifles stay shot. That’s it. That’s the story. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 2:53:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 21usernamechecksout]
[#37]
Cops will start crying they need select fire rifles because roving gangs with "FA machine guns"
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Posted: 5/6/2024 4:18:52 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 21usernamechecksout: Cops will start crying they need select fire rifles because roving gangs with "FA machine guns" Many agencies already have select fire rifles. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 4:59:24 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cone256: Yep, SWAT guys are always prima Donna's when it comes to being "special". They'd rather their fellow officers be hurt than to properly equip and train them. Absolutely not true at all in my experience. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 5:53:50 AM EDT
[#40]
<————- LE firearms instructor
I keeps dat thang on me! 15 years and over 1000 proactive self initiated arrests, and the only force I’ve ever used aside from jumping on people and wrestling them into handcuffs is pepper spray, ONCE. That being said, I have about six grand invested in my pistol, another six grand in my carbine, and another six grand in my night vision, and probably only one or two in my plate carrier. Officer, safety, common sense, and good tactics are the most valuable tools I bring to work every day, but it would suck if I was the second officer on scene to that shik parking lot shooting video someone posted above, and I had to watch my partner bleed to death while an active shooter stood over his body because I didn’t have the tools available to protect my partner or the Public….  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 12:06:35 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Was it Lee Weems? @NCPatrolAR Haven’t heard that name in a while. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 12:08:23 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Having 2 officers on a stop is a good thing Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Originally Posted By tveddy: Does a traffic stop now mean there is a second cop at the car on overwatch? Having 2 officers on a stop is a good thing Im not arguing against it. Im asking if one stays by the rifle or do we still expect to have 2 officers with pistols and a rifle locked up in a car where its not in reach |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 12:10:36 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tveddy: Im not arguing against it. Im asking if one stays by the rifle or do we still expect to have 2 officers with pistols and a rifle locked up in a car where its not in reach common sense says the latter just like its currently done |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 12:14:21 PM EDT
[#44]
You can't miss fast enough to win. The Glock switch will not replace accurate shooting.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 12:21:42 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: There are so many the only realistic way to address it would be to hire more ATF agents. Let's not go that route. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 12:51:42 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WUPHF: If you read the article, they’re talking about issuing patrol rifles to their cops, something I assumed was just standard practice these days. They’re using the “Glock switch” thing as an excuse to try to shake loose funding from somewhere. Our county sheriff's department has quite a few M4 style rifles with M4-2000 suppressors attached. You would think with the North Hollywood shootout, a lot more departments would have rifles in cars. Maybe more do, but keep them out of sight in trunks. The local department has them in a rack between the front seats. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 12:56:40 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: The bold part......yes; officers actually do need to know what suppressive fire is and how to make use of it. Reading the article it just looks like they are going to increase the number of patrol rifles within the agency....nothing wrong with that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Originally Posted By mpdphil: Call me stupid, but why would a bad guy with a “glock switch” force departments to re-evaluate what their patrol officers carry? Do LEO’s now all of a sudden need a selectfire option to counter an illegal glock switch? If so, why? I’ve been an urban LEO for over 20 years now and see no reason to re-evaluate what we carry just because of a glock switch. I’ve heard the old “well if the shitheads have ‘em, we should to” argument and when I ask how that would change anything, crickets. As LEO’s, we need to be 100% responsible for every round we fire, suppressing fire is not something civilian LEO’s should have to concern themselves with. I believe if we train officers to actually shoot accurately, you won’t get those news stories that say something to the effect of “officers fire 98 shots at the suspect and strike him twice”. I realize the adrenaline factor (I’ve been directly underfire myself both here as an LEO stateside and in Iraq as an Infantryman), but c’mon! The story The bold part......yes; officers actually do need to know what suppressive fire is and how to make use of it. Reading the article it just looks like they are going to increase the number of patrol rifles within the agency....nothing wrong with that.  Suppressive fire??!!!! Cops can barely hit their marks and now you want them to just shoot all willy-nilly?! 
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Posted: 5/6/2024 1:00:04 PM EDT
[#48]
Originally Posted By mpdphil: Do LEO’s now all of a sudden need a selectfire option to counter an illegal glock switch? If so, why? I’ve been an urban LEO for over 20 I’ve heard the old “well if the shitheads have ‘em, we should to” argument and when I ask how that would change anything, crickets. The shitheads don't care about how many bullets they turn loose into the world to hit innocent people or destroy innocent people's property. That's something police agencies have to worry about. It's funny to hear this because police departments are in a hurry to get rid of the shotgun because buckshot and multiple projectiles but there are dipshits actively campaigning to hand minimally trained personnel a weapon that there is ample evidence most of their officers can't shoot, only now giving them the option to miss more and faster with. As LEO’s, we need to be 100% responsible for every round we fire, suppressing fire is not something civilian LEO’s should have to concern themselves with. I believe if we train officers to actually shoot accurately, you won’t get those news stories that say something to the effect of “officers fire 98 shots at the suspect and strike him twice”. I realize the adrenaline factor (I’ve been directly underfire myself both here as an LEO stateside and in Iraq as an Infantryman), but c’mon! Agreed. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 1:00:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lou_Daks]
[#49]
Originally Posted By mpdphil: Call me stupid, but why would a bad guy with a “glock switch” force departments to re-evaluate what their patrol officers carry? Do LEO’s now all of a sudden need a selectfire option to counter an illegal glock switch? If so, why? I’ve been an urban LEO for over 20 years now and see no reason to re-evaluate what we carry just because of a glock switch. I’ve heard the old “well if the shitheads have ‘em, we should to” argument and when I ask how that would change anything, crickets. As LEO’s, we need to be 100% responsible for every round we fire, suppressing fire is not something civilian LEO’s should have to concern themselves with. I believe if we train officers to actually shoot accurately, you won’t get those news stories that say something to the effect of “officers fire 98 shots at the suspect and strike him twice”. I realize the adrenaline factor (I’ve been directly underfire myself both here as an LEO stateside and in Iraq as an Infantryman), but c’mon! The story Handy formula: AR>>>>Glock switch any day and twice on Funday. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 1:01:19 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aimless: They're asking for more patrol rifles. I'd want an AR if I were a police officer. I figured most do have one by this point (even if it's just a barebones LE6920) but reading this thread I'm surprised that's not quite the case. |
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