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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:01:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do we care about Ukraine when we didn't gaf about Chechnya or any of the other former eastern bloc nations Russia invaded? Imho it's because of the kickback machine that is Ukraine + biolabs we had there. NATO gutted its own military after the Cold War ended. They've sent a decent amount of military aid to Ukraine, leaving their cupboards bare. Russia has been ramping up its military. Once Ukraine is pacified, Putin will move on the Baltics. The same argument applies: a minority Russian ethnic population, 'historic lands.' The only thing stopping them from taking the Baltics is NATO membership. If NATO is sufficiently weak and divided, which appears to be the case, a strengthened Russia can finally destroy NATO. Europe won't be able to muster enough to push them back out. It will be on the US. US troops will come home in boxes if Russia goes after the Baltics. That entire scene can be prevented by denying Putin a win in Ukraine. When you give a bully what they want, they keep taking more until they're made to stop. That's human behavior. Putin's the bully. We can stop him later, when US lives are on the line, or we can stop him now, when zero American blood is at risk. Strategic thinking and secondary or tertiary future effects aren't really a consideration for GD, though. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:03:25 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The time to do that was to sell them before the war as a deterrent. The calculus has changed since then. I do not disagree very much. We should have been piling up the aid in late 2021, but nobody took anything seriously, despite plenty of evidence that the war was inevitable based on Putin's view of the world. We should have gone big early, or stayed out. Going halfway, late, yields failure. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:10:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great question. It’s by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here’s my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5QOn the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America’s global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we’ve always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It’s kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: “You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend  ”. - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin’s carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: “We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? …Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again…”. Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn’t help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate.  Hope it helps. It’s a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. Lol Also, WWII is not one of the hyphenated wars. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:12:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol, don’t start a fight you can’t win fucko! 2023 
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:14:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great question. It’s by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here’s my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5QOn the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America’s global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we’ve always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It’s kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: “You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ”. - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin’s carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: “We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? …Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again…”. Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn’t help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It’s a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why is this topic so polarizing? If one doesn't care and doesn't think we need to be involved, how does that make them a dumb or bad person? Essentially nobody here is going to change what happens, no matter how many insults are insulated or outright hurled. Why the visceral hate for people who don't agree on this topic? One side thinks the other should be banned, when neither is actually changing the war and can't fund it themselves. Great question. It’s by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here’s my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5QOn the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America’s global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we’ve always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It’s kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: “You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ”. - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin’s carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: “We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? …Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again…”. Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn’t help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It’s a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. Whats disturbing is you pretending that it's still 1962 and Russia is still our mortal enemy. It isn't and hasn't been for decades. It may never be our friend, but we have REAL enemies (China, Iran, western leftists) who you are ignoring while trying to throw every penny of treasure and weapon we have fighting someone else's war against an opponent who isn't threatening us. Why do you persist in this? Russia is not a threat to the US, period. The Iranian Houthis are more of a threat to us than Russia is right now. The US is BROKE, we have millions of invaders crossing our border, China is threatening Taiwan and with it our entire technology base, and all you Cold War boomers can think about is jerking off to your fantasies of killing Russians. To hell with it and to hell with Ukraine. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:17:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How is that any different from giving them cash? Do you think arms are free? It's hugely different. Replacing arms puts Americans to work in good paying jobs. While the weapons we sent kill commies. Win-win. Best value for tax expenditures there is. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:18:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What? Have you not seen US foreign policy of the last 30 years? I have seen that the US has no coherent foreign policy of any kind. We are reactionary, which is not a policy. Which is why the world is more dangerous now than anytime in my life. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:20:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great question. It’s by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here’s my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5QOn the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America’s global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we’ve always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It’s kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: “You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ”. - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin’s carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: “We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? …Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again…”. Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn’t help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It’s a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. That is a brilliant and accurate assessment. Bravo! |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:22:29 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When start murdering Ethnic Russians in a region that refuses to be ruled by a Glowie Puppet, use arty on residential areas, using Neo Nazi death squads to rape and murder women and kids that’s called an act of war. I don’t know why so many here are OK with genocide so long as it’s the right ethnic minority with the wrong political views that are being murdered. Also, you’re taking the same stance on the same issue as George Soros, Barack Obama, George W. Bush, and every other neocon Warhawk, Neoliberal imperialist and deep state degenerate, what does that say about you? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Uhm... did I miss the part where Ukraine invaded Russia? When start murdering Ethnic Russians in a region that refuses to be ruled by a Glowie Puppet, use arty on residential areas, using Neo Nazi death squads to rape and murder women and kids that’s called an act of war. I don’t know why so many here are OK with genocide so long as it’s the right ethnic minority with the wrong political views that are being murdered. Also, you’re taking the same stance on the same issue as George Soros, Barack Obama, George W. Bush, and every other neocon Warhawk, Neoliberal imperialist and deep state degenerate, what does that say about you? Since none of that happened until Putin sent Girkin and his forces into Donbass to do it to Ukrainians..your apologetics for fascism speaks volumes about you. You people are lucky the Avila don’t own this site anymore. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:24:52 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whats disturbing is you pretending that it's still 1962 and Russia is still our mortal enemy. It isn't and hasn't been for decades. It may never be our friend, but we have REAL enemies (China, Iran, western leftists) who you are ignoring while trying to throw every penny of treasure and weapon we have fighting someone else's war against an opponent who isn't threatening us. Why do you persist in this? Russia is not a threat to the US, period. The Iranian Houthis are more of a threat to us than Russia is right now. The US is BROKE, we have millions of invaders crossing our border, China is threatening Taiwan and with it our entire technology base, and all you Cold War boomers can think about is jerking off to your fantasies of killing Russians. To hell with it and to hell with Ukraine. If Russia has pledged to oppose US interests and actions anywhere in the world, how are they not an enemy? It's absolutely comical that you cast Iran as a REAL enemy, when Iran would have nothing if not for Russian aid. What makes Iran dangerous is their support from Russia. So the central, critical ally of our REAL enemy is not our enemy?  I'll just accept you haven't paid any attention to anything Russia's leaders have been saying. Not threatening us, LOL.
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:33:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: …You know Britain started WW1. Right? Do you really want to go down this road? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Bunch of fucking Neville Chamberlains up in here …You know Britain started WW1. Right? Do you really want to go down this road? Tell us more……was Gavrilo Princip a MI6 operative, or did they use the Jewish mind-control satellites to make Kaiser Bill issue a blank check to the Austrian-Hungarian Empire? Or was it both? |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:35:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. You get your news from random YouTube nutters. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If Russians didn’t want to get shelled, then they shouldn’t have invaded. They didn’t even try to hide it, but 10 years later, American mouthbreathers are still saying it was home grown separatists. In other news, if you don’t want to get accused of guzzling unfiltered Russian propaganda, don’t walk around broadcasting it https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26532154.amp lol you still believe the media. Lol. You get your news from random YouTube nutters. He probably loves him some “Zoomer Historian” |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:39:20 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have seen that the US has no coherent foreign policy of any kind. We are reactionary, which is not a policy. Which is why the world is more dangerous now than anytime in my life. Our foreign policy flips with the wind with every 2 or 4 as candidates use it as a tool to get elected first and foremost, while our enemies are dictators with 20-30 year plans/power. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:41:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whats disturbing is you pretending that it's still 1962 and Russia is still our mortal enemy. It isn't and hasn't been for decades. It may never be our friend, but we have REAL enemies (China, Iran, western leftists) who you are ignoring while trying to throw every penny of treasure and weapon we have fighting someone else's war against an opponent who isn't threatening us. Why do you persist in this? Russia is not a threat to the US, period. The Iranian Houthis are more of a threat to us than Russia is right now. The US is BROKE, we have millions of invaders crossing our border, China is threatening Taiwan and with it our entire technology base, and all you Cold War boomers can think about is jerking off to your fantasies of killing Russians. To hell with it and to hell with Ukraine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why is this topic so polarizing? If one doesn't care and doesn't think we need to be involved, how does that make them a dumb or bad person? Essentially nobody here is going to change what happens, no matter how many insults are insulated or outright hurled. Why the visceral hate for people who don't agree on this topic? One side thinks the other should be banned, when neither is actually changing the war and can't fund it themselves. Great question. It’s by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here’s my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5QOn the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America’s global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we’ve always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It’s kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: “You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ”. - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin’s carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: “We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? …Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again…”. Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn’t help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It’s a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. Whats disturbing is you pretending that it's still 1962 and Russia is still our mortal enemy. It isn't and hasn't been for decades. It may never be our friend, but we have REAL enemies (China, Iran, western leftists) who you are ignoring while trying to throw every penny of treasure and weapon we have fighting someone else's war against an opponent who isn't threatening us. Why do you persist in this? Russia is not a threat to the US, period. The Iranian Houthis are more of a threat to us than Russia is right now. The US is BROKE, we have millions of invaders crossing our border, China is threatening Taiwan and with it our entire technology base, and all you Cold War boomers can think about is jerking off to your fantasies of killing Russians. To hell with it and to hell with Ukraine. Did you even read it? I covered your concerns In Detail. Yes, we are broke. With Ukraine, or without Ukraine. Yes, we are being over run by illegal immigrants. Abandoning Ukraine will not slow it, or stop it. In fact, a Rational person would deduce that it would ADD ~10,000,000 more desperate immigrants. You are mad at me for pointing out the obvious. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:44:17 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why is this topic so polarizing? If one doesn't care and doesn't think we need to be involved, how does that make them a dumb or bad person? Essentially nobody here is going to change what happens, no matter how many insults are insinuated or outright hurled. Why the visceral hate for people who don't agree on this topic? One side thinks the other should be banned, when neither is actually changing the war and can't fund it themselves. It is odd how polarizing this topic is, especially given most the reasons to oppose Russia and support Ukraine, can be applied to multiple other countries around the world. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:45:12 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is a brilliant and accurate assessment. Bravo! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Great question. It’s by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here’s my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5QOn the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America’s global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we’ve always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It’s kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: “You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ”. - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin’s carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: “We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? …Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again…”. Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn’t help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It’s a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. That is a brilliant and accurate assessment. Bravo! I would be interested to know how many traditional rational conservatives we have left in America. Not necessarily Ukraine supporters, but just Traditional and Rational. Arfcom is probably a bad place to get a sample, for all the reasons I stated. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:48:38 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is odd how polarizing this topic is, especially given most the reasons to oppose Russia and support Ukraine, can be applied to multiple other countries around the world. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why is this topic so polarizing? If one doesn't care and doesn't think we need to be involved, how does that make them a dumb or bad person? Essentially nobody here is going to change what happens, no matter how many insults are insinuated or outright hurled. Why the visceral hate for people who don't agree on this topic? One side thinks the other should be banned, when neither is actually changing the war and can't fund it themselves. It is odd how polarizing this topic is, especially given most the reasons to oppose Russia and support Ukraine, can be applied to multiple other countries around the world. Russia Invaded Ukraine. If they had Invaded Poland, the argument would reside there. If China invaded Australia, same thing. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:50:51 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great question. It’s by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here’s my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5QOn the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America’s global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we’ve always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It’s kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: “You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ”. - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin’s carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: “We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? …Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again…”. Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn’t help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It’s a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why is this topic so polarizing? If one doesn't care and doesn't think we need to be involved, how does that make them a dumb or bad person? Essentially nobody here is going to change what happens, no matter how many insults are insulated or outright hurled. Why the visceral hate for people who don't agree on this topic? One side thinks the other should be banned, when neither is actually changing the war and can't fund it themselves. Great question. It’s by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here’s my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5QOn the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America’s global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we’ve always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It’s kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: “You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ”. - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin’s carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: “We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? …Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again…”. Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn’t help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It’s a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. Helping Ukraine hasn't diminished Russia's nuclear threat. The strategic threat that Russia is to the US, is still the same it was. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:56:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NATO gutted its own military after the Cold War ended. They've sent a decent amount of military aid to Ukraine, leaving their cupboards bare. Russia has been ramping up its military. Once Ukraine is pacified, Putin will move on the Baltics. The same argument applies: a minority Russian ethnic population, 'historic lands.' The only thing stopping them from taking the Baltics is NATO membership. If NATO is sufficiently weak and divided, which appears to be the case, a strengthened Russia can finally destroy NATO. Europe won't be able to muster enough to push them back out. It will be on the US. US troops will come home in boxes if Russia goes after the Baltics. That entire scene can be prevented by denying Putin a win in Ukraine. When you give a bully what they want, they keep taking more until they're made to stop. That's human behavior. Putin's the bully. We can stop him later, when US lives are on the line, or we can stop him now, when zero American blood is at risk. Strategic thinking and secondary or tertiary future effects aren't really a consideration for GD, though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why do we care about Ukraine when we didn't gaf about Chechnya or any of the other former eastern bloc nations Russia invaded? Imho it's because of the kickback machine that is Ukraine + biolabs we had there. NATO gutted its own military after the Cold War ended. They've sent a decent amount of military aid to Ukraine, leaving their cupboards bare. Russia has been ramping up its military. Once Ukraine is pacified, Putin will move on the Baltics. The same argument applies: a minority Russian ethnic population, 'historic lands.' The only thing stopping them from taking the Baltics is NATO membership. If NATO is sufficiently weak and divided, which appears to be the case, a strengthened Russia can finally destroy NATO. Europe won't be able to muster enough to push them back out. It will be on the US. US troops will come home in boxes if Russia goes after the Baltics. That entire scene can be prevented by denying Putin a win in Ukraine. When you give a bully what they want, they keep taking more until they're made to stop. That's human behavior. Putin's the bully. We can stop him later, when US lives are on the line, or we can stop him now, when zero American blood is at risk. Strategic thinking and secondary or tertiary future effects aren't really a consideration for GD, though. NATO is literally predicated on US action. The sole function of Europe has always been meat for the grinder to use up Soviet(now Russian) men and material. They will still serve that purpose, just like Ukraine is right now. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:56:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great question. It's by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here's my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5QOn the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America's global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we've always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It's kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: "You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ". - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin's carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: "We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again ". Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn't help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It's a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why is this topic so polarizing? If one doesn't care and doesn't think we need to be involved, how does that make them a dumb or bad person? Essentially nobody here is going to change what happens, no matter how many insults are insulated or outright hurled. Why the visceral hate for people who don't agree on this topic? One side thinks the other should be banned, when neither is actually changing the war and can't fund it themselves. Great question. It's by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here's my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5QOn the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America's global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we've always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It's kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: "You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ". - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin's carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: "We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again ". Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn't help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It's a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. Yeah guys, like BillofRights says, you're just susceptible to sneaky Russian trolls who have been manipulating you into not supporting WWIII and giving endless tax payer monies to good guy Zelensky. Remember, its "mathematical fact" that American tax payer children's children's children should bare the burden of protecting European countries from the onslaught of Russian aggression. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 2:00:52 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia Invaded Ukraine. If they had Invaded Poland, the argument would reside there. If China invaded Australia, same thing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why is this topic so polarizing? If one doesn't care and doesn't think we need to be involved, how does that make them a dumb or bad person? Essentially nobody here is going to change what happens, no matter how many insults are insinuated or outright hurled. Why the visceral hate for people who don't agree on this topic? One side thinks the other should be banned, when neither is actually changing the war and can't fund it themselves. It is odd how polarizing this topic is, especially given most the reasons to oppose Russia and support Ukraine, can be applied to multiple other countries around the world. Russia Invaded Ukraine. If they had Invaded Poland, the argument would reside there. If China invaded Australia, same thing. If Russia invaded Poland, that's an attack on an actual NATO country. Australia is party to the ANZUS treaty, meaning they are an actual ally via a ratified treaty. Ukraine is neither. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 2:04:40 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah guys, like BillofRights says, you're just susceptible to sneaky Russian trolls who have been manipulating you into not supporting WWIII and giving endless tax payer monies to good guy Zelensky. Remember, its "mathematical fact" that American tax payer children's children's children should bare the burden of protecting European countries from the onslaught of Russian aggression. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why is this topic so polarizing? If one doesn't care and doesn't think we need to be involved, how does that make them a dumb or bad person? Essentially nobody here is going to change what happens, no matter how many insults are insulated or outright hurled. Why the visceral hate for people who don't agree on this topic? One side thinks the other should be banned, when neither is actually changing the war and can't fund it themselves. Great question. It's by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here's my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5QOn the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America's global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we've always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It's kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: "You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ". - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin's carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: "We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again ". Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn't help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It's a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. Yeah guys, like BillofRights says, you're just susceptible to sneaky Russian trolls who have been manipulating you into not supporting WWIII and giving endless tax payer monies to good guy Zelensky. Remember, its "mathematical fact" that American tax payer children's children's children should bare the burden of protecting European countries from the onslaught of Russian aggression. Thank you. Self-identification is always appreciated. The more honest we are, the more we can learn. If you were a knowledgeable American, you would know that our future generations are enslaved to Domestic Spending. Our military expenditures are necessary, but they are small, compared to everything else. We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn’t make a bit of difference to our National debt. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 2:07:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If Russia has pledged to oppose US interests and actions anywhere in the world, how are they not an enemy? It's absolutely comical that you cast Iran as a REAL enemy, when Iran would have nothing if not for aid from democRat administrations. What makes Iran dangerous is their support from democRat administrations. So the central, critical ally of our REAL enemy is not our enemy? I'll just accept you haven't paid any attention to anything Russia's leaders have been saying. Not threatening us, LOL.Trump was right. They were on the ropes. If it wasn't for Barry, they'd be pussycats now. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 2:07:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you even read it? I covered your concerns In Detail. Yes, we are broke. With Ukraine, or without Ukraine. Yes, we are being over run by illegal immigrants. Abandoning Ukraine will not slow it, or stop it. In fact, a Rational person would deduce that it would ADD ~10,000,000 more desperate immigrants. You are mad at me for pointing out the obvious. I guess nobody got the word that Trump's 500 mile wall that he made Mexico pay for has been so great at keeping migrants out. lol |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 2:15:11 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those other countries are free to spend their currency helping all they want. We are broke... It would actually be refreshing to see other countries step up as much as we do. Exactly! Why does it always have to be the US giving away the citizens labor? |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 2:15:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would be interested to know how many traditional rational conservatives we have left in America. Not necessarily Ukraine supporters, but just Traditional and Rational. Arfcom is probably a bad place to get a sample, for all the reasons I stated. This made me wonder....... A traditional conservative would ,imho be anti Russia and pro Ukraine to some extent . That’s fine . Now look at congress and the GOP is as split on the Ukraine issue as we are . The GOPe is about as traditional as it gets . Makes me wonder what their angle is . And after everything that’s happened over the past 8 years , I’m not surprised at all with the rift that has been created by the GOPe . They have shown everyone willing to listen that they have no intentions of doing anything to help America or it’s people . Then when they hammer incessantly about Ukraine , the vast majority of those used to be traditional conservatives rightly think , wtf , this can’t be the whole story, there HAS to be an ulterior motive , since the gov hates us and wants us dead or enslaved to pay third worlders to murder us , why would they “care” about Ukraine being a sovereign and free nation . Two things we are not . I’m a child of the 80s a guy who was stationed in the Fulda gap in the mid 80s . I get immense satisfaction seeing russian tanks exploding . 18 year old me wanted to be at the pointy end of the spear making that happen . Old me realizes that our government is as much our enemy as Russia is . Russia cannot raise my taxes , raid my house , shut off my electricity , end my job . Pedo Joe would revel in doing any or all of those to you , me or anyone else on this board . They are extremely happy that the illegal alien invading horde are raping and killing Americans , it’s why he brought them here . The Russians could nuke us sure, just like swalwell said he would . Personally I see no difference in Russia or pedo Joe as far as who’s my enemy . They both want me dead . If pedo Joe truly wanted Ukraine to win , he would’ve sent them thousands of tanks and jets 3 years ago . |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 2:18:21 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you. Self-identification is always appreciated. The more honest we are, the more we can learn. If you were a knowledgeable American, you would know that our future generations are enslaved to Domestic Spending. Our military expenditures are necessary, but they are small, compared to everything else. We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to our National debt. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why is this topic so polarizing? If one doesn't care and doesn't think we need to be involved, how does that make them a dumb or bad person? Essentially nobody here is going to change what happens, no matter how many insults are insulated or outright hurled. Why the visceral hate for people who don't agree on this topic? One side thinks the other should be banned, when neither is actually changing the war and can't fund it themselves. Great question. It's by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here's my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5QOn the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America's global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we've always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It's kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: "You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ". - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin's carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: "We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again ". Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn't help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It's a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. Yeah guys, like BillofRights says, you're just susceptible to sneaky Russian trolls who have been manipulating you into not supporting WWIII and giving endless tax payer monies to good guy Zelensky. Remember, its "mathematical fact" that American tax payer children's children's children should bare the burden of protecting European countries from the onslaught of Russian aggression. Thank you. Self-identification is always appreciated. The more honest we are, the more we can learn. If you were a knowledgeable American, you would know that our future generations are enslaved to Domestic Spending. Our military expenditures are necessary, but they are small, compared to everything else. We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to our National debt. Ah yes, there it is, I must be a "Russian troll" because I don't support the cult's message.  "We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to our National debt." - You must be using that new math because with normal math, it's clear as day that giving billions of dollars we don't have to a corrupt county such as Ukraine does in fact add to the national debt. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 2:33:07 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This made me wonder....... A traditional conservative would ,imho be anti Russia and pro Ukraine to some extent . That’s fine . Now look at congress and the GOP is as split on the Ukraine issue as we are . The GOPe is about as traditional as it gets . Makes me wonder what their angle is . And after everything that’s happened over the past 8 years , I’m not surprised at all with the rift that has been created by the GOPe . They have shown everyone willing to listen that they have no intentions of doing anything to help America or it’s people . Then when they hammer incessantly about Ukraine , the vast majority of those used to be traditional conservatives rightly think , wtf , this can’t be the whole story, there HAS to be an ulterior motive , since the gov hates us and wants us dead or enslaved to pay third worlders to murder us , why would they “care” about Ukraine being a sovereign and free nation . Two things we are not . I’m a child of the 80s a guy who was stationed in the Fulda gap in the mid 80s . I get immense satisfaction seeing russian tanks exploding . 18 year old me wanted to be at the pointy end of the spear making that happen . Old me realizes that our government is as much our enemy as Russia is . Russia cannot raise my taxes , raid my house , shut off my electricity , end my job . Pedo Joe would revel in doing any or all of those to you , me or anyone else on this board . They are extremely happy that the illegal alien invading horde are raping and killing Americans , it’s why he brought them here . The Russians could nuke us sure, just like swalwell said he would . Personally I see no difference in Russia or pedo Joe as far as who’s my enemy . They both want me dead . If pedo Joe truly wanted Ukraine to win , he would’ve sent them thousands of tanks and jets 3 years ago . Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I would be interested to know how many traditional rational conservatives we have left in America. Not necessarily Ukraine supporters, but just Traditional and Rational. Arfcom is probably a bad place to get a sample, for all the reasons I stated. This made me wonder....... A traditional conservative would ,imho be anti Russia and pro Ukraine to some extent . That’s fine . Now look at congress and the GOP is as split on the Ukraine issue as we are . The GOPe is about as traditional as it gets . Makes me wonder what their angle is . And after everything that’s happened over the past 8 years , I’m not surprised at all with the rift that has been created by the GOPe . They have shown everyone willing to listen that they have no intentions of doing anything to help America or it’s people . Then when they hammer incessantly about Ukraine , the vast majority of those used to be traditional conservatives rightly think , wtf , this can’t be the whole story, there HAS to be an ulterior motive , since the gov hates us and wants us dead or enslaved to pay third worlders to murder us , why would they “care” about Ukraine being a sovereign and free nation . Two things we are not . I’m a child of the 80s a guy who was stationed in the Fulda gap in the mid 80s . I get immense satisfaction seeing russian tanks exploding . 18 year old me wanted to be at the pointy end of the spear making that happen . Old me realizes that our government is as much our enemy as Russia is . Russia cannot raise my taxes , raid my house , shut off my electricity , end my job . Pedo Joe would revel in doing any or all of those to you , me or anyone else on this board . They are extremely happy that the illegal alien invading horde are raping and killing Americans , it’s why he brought them here . The Russians could nuke us sure, just like swalwell said he would . Personally I see no difference in Russia or pedo Joe as far as who’s my enemy . They both want me dead . If pedo Joe truly wanted Ukraine to win , he would’ve sent them thousands of tanks and jets 3 years ago . Biden isn’t in control of anything, but clearly, his handlers didn’t want a win. If your entire paradigm is as you say: “The gov hates us and wants us dead or enslaved to pay third worlders to murder us …” Then there isn’t anywhere to go from there. No insult, but that sounds like total demoralization, there’s Nothing worth caring about. Fwiw, I agree that the Government is killing America as we knew it, but I think it’s less personal, and more about economics. The Powers that be, are not some Demonic conspiracy, but rather a Banking Cartel, that wants to keep the game going no matter what it costs us as a culture. Similar, but different. Democrats probably Want to keep the war going, because the internal disagreements are destroying the Republican party. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 2:35:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Helping Ukraine hasn't diminished Russia's nuclear threat. The strategic threat that Russia is to the US, is still the same it was. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why is this topic so polarizing? If one doesn't care and doesn't think we need to be involved, how does that make them a dumb or bad person? Essentially nobody here is going to change what happens, no matter how many insults are insulated or outright hurled. Why the visceral hate for people who don't agree on this topic? One side thinks the other should be banned, when neither is actually changing the war and can't fund it themselves. Great question. It’s by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here’s my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5QOn the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America’s global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we’ve always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It’s kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: “You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ”. - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin’s carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: “We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? …Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again…”. Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn’t help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It’s a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. Helping Ukraine hasn't diminished Russia's nuclear threat. The strategic threat that Russia is to the US, is still the same it was. I see, it's the "I'm underwater on my house payment so before going bankrupt I may as well buy a new car and what does it matter if I max out my credit cards to help a guy who will NEVER assist me when I'm down in the future." school of thought. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 2:38:50 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah yes, there it is, I must be a "Russian troll" because I don't support the cult's message. "We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to our National debt." - You must be using retard math because with normal math, it's clear as day that giving billions of dollars we don't have to a corrupt county such as Ukraine does in fact add to the national debt. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why is this topic so polarizing? If one doesn't care and doesn't think we need to be involved, how does that make them a dumb or bad person? Essentially nobody here is going to change what happens, no matter how many insults are insulated or outright hurled. Why the visceral hate for people who don't agree on this topic? One side thinks the other should be banned, when neither is actually changing the war and can't fund it themselves. Great question. It's by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here's my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5QOn the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America's global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we've always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It's kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: "You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ". - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin's carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: "We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again ". Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn't help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It's a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. Yeah guys, like BillofRights says, you're just susceptible to sneaky Russian trolls who have been manipulating you into not supporting WWIII and giving endless tax payer monies to good guy Zelensky. Remember, its "mathematical fact" that American tax payer children's children's children should bare the burden of protecting European countries from the onslaught of Russian aggression. Thank you. Self-identification is always appreciated. The more honest we are, the more we can learn. If you were a knowledgeable American, you would know that our future generations are enslaved to Domestic Spending. Our military expenditures are necessary, but they are small, compared to everything else. We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to our National debt. Ah yes, there it is, I must be a "Russian troll" because I don't support the cult's message. "We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to our National debt." - You must be using retard math because with normal math, it's clear as day that giving billions of dollars we don't have to a corrupt county such as Ukraine does in fact add to the national debt. Yes, We Heard you the first time. Relax. Nobody is the slightest bit shocked or surprised. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 2:42:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah yes, there it is, I must be a "Russian troll" because I don't support the cult's message. "We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to our National debt." - You must be using retard math because with normal math, it's clear as day that giving billions of dollars we don't have to a corrupt county such as Ukraine does in fact add to the national debt. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why is this topic so polarizing? If one doesn't care and doesn't think we need to be involved, how does that make them a dumb or bad person? Essentially nobody here is going to change what happens, no matter how many insults are insulated or outright hurled. Why the visceral hate for people who don't agree on this topic? One side thinks the other should be banned, when neither is actually changing the war and can't fund it themselves. Great question. It's by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here's my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5QOn the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America's global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we've always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It's kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: "You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ". - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin's carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: "We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again ". Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn't help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It's a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. Yeah guys, like BillofRights says, you're just susceptible to sneaky Russian trolls who have been manipulating you into not supporting WWIII and giving endless tax payer monies to good guy Zelensky. Remember, its "mathematical fact" that American tax payer children's children's children should bare the burden of protecting European countries from the onslaught of Russian aggression. Thank you. Self-identification is always appreciated. The more honest we are, the more we can learn. If you were a knowledgeable American, you would know that our future generations are enslaved to Domestic Spending. Our military expenditures are necessary, but they are small, compared to everything else. We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to our National debt. Ah yes, there it is, I must be a "Russian troll" because I don't support the cult's message. "We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to our National debt." - You must be using retard math because with normal math, it's clear as day that giving billions of dollars we don't have to a corrupt county such as Ukraine does in fact add to the national debt. Don't forget "not a true conservative (tm)" by the self appointed arbiter of what is rational and conservative--notice that, of course, he paints himself up as being on the moral highground and without blemish or irrationality. He's perfect in his own mind. It's pure narcissism and indicative of deeply seated personal insecurity. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 2:54:33 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't forget "not a true conservative (tm)" by the self appointed arbiter of what is rational and conservative--notice that, of course, he paints himself up as being on the moral highground and without blemish or irrationality. He's perfect in his own mind. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why is this topic so polarizing? If one doesn't care and doesn't think we need to be involved, how does that make them a dumb or bad person? Essentially nobody here is going to change what happens, no matter how many insults are insulated or outright hurled. Why the visceral hate for people who don't agree on this topic? One side thinks the other should be banned, when neither is actually changing the war and can't fund it themselves. Great question. It's by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here's my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5QOn the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America's global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we've always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It's kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: "You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ". - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin's carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: "We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again ". Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn't help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It's a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. Yeah guys, like BillofRights says, you're just susceptible to sneaky Russian trolls who have been manipulating you into not supporting WWIII and giving endless tax payer monies to good guy Zelensky. Remember, its "mathematical fact" that American tax payer children's children's children should bare the burden of protecting European countries from the onslaught of Russian aggression. Thank you. Self-identification is always appreciated. The more honest we are, the more we can learn. If you were a knowledgeable American, you would know that our future generations are enslaved to Domestic Spending. Our military expenditures are necessary, but they are small, compared to everything else. We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to our National debt. Ah yes, there it is, I must be a "Russian troll" because I don't support the cult's message. "We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to our National debt." - You must be using retard math because with normal math, it's clear as day that giving billions of dollars we don't have to a corrupt county such as Ukraine does in fact add to the national debt. Don't forget "not a true conservative (tm)" by the self appointed arbiter of what is rational and conservative--notice that, of course, he paints himself up as being on the moral highground and without blemish or irrationality. He's perfect in his own mind. Yup, saw that. I like the part where he asserts people are being manipulated by sneaky Russian trolls, cause why else would they not think like him! Apparently, it's an "interesting disturbing phenomenon". 
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Posted: 3/11/2024 3:01:58 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, We Heard you the first time. Relax. Nobody is the slightest bit shocked or surprised. Nonsense. No aid has passed the House. The economy is back to pre-Biden levels. National debt gone. Deficit gone. Groceries are affordable again. Biden and Hillary were just led off in handcuffs. Trump is back on the throne. All because no new Ukraine aid. Who would have thought that was the sole thing ailing our economy? |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 3:03:17 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah yes, there it is, I must be a "Russian troll" because I don't support the cult's message. "We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to our National debt." - You must be using that new math because with normal math, it's clear as day that giving billions of dollars we don't have to a corrupt county such as Ukraine does in fact add to the national debt. No new aid has been approved in 3 months, @sketti . Has something changed? Shouldn't the deficit and national debt be under control now? |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 3:08:48 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see, it's the "I'm underwater on my house payment so before going bankrupt I may as well buy a new car and what does it matter if I max out my credit cards to help a guy who will NEVER assist me when I'm down in the future." school of thought. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why is this topic so polarizing? If one doesn't care and doesn't think we need to be involved, how does that make them a dumb or bad person? Essentially nobody here is going to change what happens, no matter how many insults are insulated or outright hurled. Why the visceral hate for people who don't agree on this topic? One side thinks the other should be banned, when neither is actually changing the war and can't fund it themselves. Great question. It’s by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here’s my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5QOn the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America’s global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we’ve always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It’s kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: “You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ”. - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin’s carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: “We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? …Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again…”. Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn’t help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It’s a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. Helping Ukraine hasn't diminished Russia's nuclear threat. The strategic threat that Russia is to the US, is still the same it was. I see, it's the "I'm underwater on my house payment so before going bankrupt I may as well buy a new car and what does it matter if I max out my credit cards to help a guy who will NEVER assist me when I'm down in the future." school of thought. Not sure if that is pointed at me or BoR.  |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 3:09:54 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nonsense. No aid has passed the House. The economy is back to pre-Biden levels. National debt gone. Deficit gone. Groceries are affordable again. Biden and Hillary were just led off in handcuffs. Trump is back on the throne. All because no new Ukraine aid. Who would have thought that was the sole thing ailing our economy? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yes, We Heard you the first time. Relax. Nobody is the slightest bit shocked or surprised. Nonsense. No aid has passed the House. The economy is back to pre-Biden levels. National debt gone. Deficit gone. Groceries are affordable again. Biden and Hillary were just led off in handcuffs. Trump is back on the throne. All because no new Ukraine aid. Who would have thought that was the sole thing ailing our economy? So your position is spending Billions of dollars we don't have on dear leader is some how not contributing to the deficit. I swear, you kids and your new math!
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Posted: 3/11/2024 3:10:46 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Biden isn’t in control of anything, but clearly, his handlers didn’t want a win. If your entire paradigm is as you say: “The gov hates us and wants us dead or enslaved to pay third worlders to murder us …” Then there isn’t anywhere to go from there. No insult, but that sounds like total demoralization, there’s Nothing worth caring about. Fwiw, I agree that the Government is killing America as we knew it, but I think it’s less personal, and more about economics. The Powers that be, are not some Demonic conspiracy, but rather a Banking Cartel, that wants to keep the game going no matter what it costs us as a culture. Similar, but different. Democrats probably Want to keep the war going, because the internal disagreements are destroying the Republican party. And your opinion that it’s strictly or mostly economic is perfectly acceptable to me . As you said, similar . I’m not sure how it’s different though . Enslaved is enslaved . I agree that the pedo isn’t running the show but he is the face , so he agrees with it . Having 50 million criminals invade us isn’t the economic boon that the banking cartel thinks it is , so why do it ? I suppose that printing a few trillion to give to the illegals who then spend it back to the banks is one way of amassing a pile of money . Why not just print it and give it to Americans ? They would get it all back just the same . I think there is a greater amount of sadism in their actions than you . Say I’m wrong and they’re just in it for the $ , they are still just as dangerous to me and mine as the Russians |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 3:17:59 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No new aid has been approved in 3 months, @sketti . Has something changed? Shouldn't the deficit and national debt be under control now? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ah yes, there it is, I must be a "Russian troll" because I don't support the cult's message. "We could abandon all of Europe Today, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to our National debt." - You must be using that new math because with normal math, it's clear as day that giving billions of dollars we don't have to a corrupt county such as Ukraine does in fact add to the national debt. No new aid has been approved in 3 months, @sketti . Has something changed? Shouldn't the deficit and national debt be under control now? Yes, the deficit and national debt should be under control now. The printed billions of stolen tax payer monies given to dear leader doesn't really count because we borrowed it from our children's children's children. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 3:19:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, the deficit and national debt should be under control now. The printed billions of stolen tax payer monies given to dear leader doesn't really count because we borrowed it from our children's children's children. But are they? Not a peep when Trump sent aid to Ukraine or had Americans in Ukraine training Ukrainians? I suspect it was rather quiet on your part. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 3:20:23 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If Russia invaded Poland, that's an attack on an actual NATO country. Australia is party to the ANZUS treaty, meaning they are an actual ally via a ratified treaty. Ukraine is neither. Kuwait was neither also but yet we launched a full scale war to push Saddam out. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 3:28:22 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Kuwait was neither also but yet we launched a full scale war to push Saddam out. Eh... US got paid to fight that war. Total financial cost out of pocket was less than $10 billion. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 3:29:44 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But are they? Not a peep when Trump sent aid to Ukraine or had Americans in Ukraine training Ukrainians? I suspect it was rather quiet on your part. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yes, the deficit and national debt should be under control now. The printed billions of stolen tax payer monies given to dear leader doesn't really count because we borrowed it from our children's children's children. But are they? Not a peep when Trump sent aid to Ukraine or had Americans in Ukraine training Ukrainians? I suspect it was rather quiet on your part. You suspect that, do ya! |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 3:31:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bunch of fucking Neville Chamberlains up in here Yep. Some of these guys would roll over if Canada invaded us. How many here are ignoramuses who dont even know who N. Chamberlin was! lol Nobody has to give a pass to Biden and Zelensky for the bribery going on, but a free nation of civilians weren't looking to be invaded. Though, I wouldn't doubt if Zelensky was made to accept the bribery from Biden with "I'll make you a great offer you can't refuse". |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 3:32:56 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You suspect that, do ya! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yes, the deficit and national debt should be under control now. The printed billions of stolen tax payer monies given to dear leader doesn't really count because we borrowed it from our children's children's children. But are they? Not a peep when Trump sent aid to Ukraine or had Americans in Ukraine training Ukrainians? I suspect it was rather quiet on your part. You suspect that, do ya! It's almost like that they keep forgetting that the Ukraine is not the United States-- that it is not our country. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 3:40:58 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't half that country vote to be a part of Russia?? No more cash. Yes and then their "beloved" government immediately started killing them....you know, we only choose the "bestest" of allies and partners in ever shithole.... |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 3:41:05 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's almost like that they keep forgetting that the Ukraine is not the United States-- that it is not our country. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yes, the deficit and national debt should be under control now. The printed billions of stolen tax payer monies given to dear leader doesn't really count because we borrowed it from our children's children's children. But are they? Not a peep when Trump sent aid to Ukraine or had Americans in Ukraine training Ukrainians? I suspect it was rather quiet on your part. You suspect that, do ya! It's almost like that they keep forgetting that the Ukraine is not the United States-- that it is not our country. Hell, the cult acts like it's our 51st State and throws a tantrum whenever we object to paying their government pensions. It's insane! |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 3:42:58 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Delusional. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Fond memories of the CIA coup to overturn the election in Ukraine. And installed the fruit cake Zelenskyy.  Delusional. uh huh, i guessed u missed the part where fucking bragged about it... or do u just no know how coups and colour revolutions work? |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 3:47:51 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Uhm... did I miss the part where Ukraine invaded Russia? no but i guess u missed the 9 years prior where Ukraine was massacring ethnic Russians in the south and the east and govt leaders were on their national news station calling for the extermination of ethnic russians in their own country... |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 3:50:35 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure if that is pointed at me or BoR. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why is this topic so polarizing? If one doesn't care and doesn't think we need to be involved, how does that make them a dumb or bad person? Essentially nobody here is going to change what happens, no matter how many insults are insulated or outright hurled. Why the visceral hate for people who don't agree on this topic? One side thinks the other should be banned, when neither is actually changing the war and can't fund it themselves. Great question. It’s by far, the most destructive and polarizing issue to hit the Republican party, since WW-II. Here’s my observations, based on reading nearly all the threads. First, There are a handful of actual Russian trolls*. They are easily able manipulate unsuspecting members, because there are a great many people on the Right, who are scared, disenfranchised, anti-government, and burnt out on war. The grievances they have are 100% legitimate and rational. The hatred they have for Biden and company, is righteous and true. Thus, they are highly susceptible to skilled propaganda. Propaganda which has been wielded for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5QOn the other side, you have traditional Reagan Republicans who see America’s global responsibilities as essential to maintaining a measure of order and justice in the world. In addition, maintaining the status-quo of the world is understood to be not only a moral issue, but also an economic necessity. There are other factions of course. - Arfcom has always had a big Libertarian population, who will be dedicated Isolationists by default. - In addition, we’ve always been home to the Prepper/Survivalist types, who are terrified at the prospect of Nuclear Armageddon. - There are two generations now, who never even considered the fact that Russia was still a threat. It’s kinda silly in retrospect, because the prospect of accidental Nuclear annihilation was always there, but we all preferred to ignore it. We see a version of this in almost every thread: “You cold war boomers have gotta get over it, the USSR is gone, Russia is our Friend ”. - There are some who have family ties to Russia, and many more who were taken in by Putin’s carefully crafted image as a strong leader, and defender of traditional Christian Morality. (Which is an obvious and blatant lie of course), but the people co-opted by this fantasy can not let go of it. Their hatred and fear of the NWO, WEF, etc, is just too great. For them to realize that their savior is actually an evil megalomaniac, as bad as Soros with Nukes, would remove all hope. To sum it up; every Conservative minded American is justifiably scared and angry. The Kremlin message is very seductive. It resonates with all of us: “We are your friends! The real enemy is Your Own Government! Why risk everything, for the corrupt and degenerate Ukraine? …Just give us what we want, and all will be right with the world again…”. Essentially, many of us are so desperate to hang onto any shred of hope, that we would happily jettison Ukraine and all of our Allies, in the forlorn hope, that it would magically fix 70 years of deficit spending. The mathematical fact that it wouldn’t help at all, is a concept which is literally too terrible to contemplate. Hope it helps. It’s a phenomenon which has been as interesting, as it is disturbing. Helping Ukraine hasn't diminished Russia's nuclear threat. The strategic threat that Russia is to the US, is still the same it was. I see, it's the "I'm underwater on my house payment so before going bankrupt I may as well buy a new car and what does it matter if I max out my credit cards to help a guy who will NEVER assist me when I'm down in the future." school of thought. Not sure if that is pointed at me or BoR. Neither, really. Just kind of analogous concept I thought of to help me try to understand and rationalize decisions on time invested for this topic. Every second we spend on this topic, we are wasting time we could be using to learn more about stuff in our own lives and improve, especially if you're more than a casual observer of these topics. People get UKR/RUS tunnel vision and don't realize they're being flanked with huge domestic issues coming at them from their own city council and state .gov and aren't writing letters there but instead want to cheer for some war like it is a football game. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 4:02:34 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's almost like that they keep forgetting that the Ukraine is not the United States-- that it is not our country. I get the neutrality thing. But it still doesn't bode well for you to stand there at the gas pump filling your truck while a woman gets thrown to the ground and raped, and all you can say is lol....Fuck her! its not my wife. I can get hurt intervening. She was probably a bimbo anyway. blah, blah, blah." Its nothing to be boastful. Just shut up and say nothing if you won't help. |
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