User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
MN, USA
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Posted: 7/15/2022 12:54:37 AM EDT
[#1]
an odd dynamic. Like some old fucker is plowing a young lady who has a sugar daddy or some other odd dynamic.
wtf is wrong with these people? That cunt and her lawyer goons should both be sued into oblivion. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 12:54:53 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LuckyDucky: You're probably right about that... I spent quite a bit of time today researching negligent entrustment for an appeal I just learned I'm going to be involved in today. That said, I didn't realize this was the cheerleading forum and not a discussion forum. I'll just delete the content of my posts. OP never should have posted this thread anyways. I have no power here, I just wanted to share a different viewpoint. Sounds like you are good at your job. I hope you have a good evening. 
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Posted: 7/15/2022 12:55:53 AM EDT
[#3]
Best wishes and fingers crossed against this obvious bullshit.
I have used ADCO and have dealt with bigbore, and like EVERYONE else who knows him, I know what a quality person he is!
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Posted: 7/15/2022 12:58:46 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jmevans_2: I just read the complaint. What a BS charge! 
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Posted: 7/15/2022 1:04:34 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PreemptiveStrike: This is correct, it would have to have been ordered by the court. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PreemptiveStrike: Originally Posted By Liaztraht: Originally Posted By TaskForce: Originally Posted By KILLERB6: I would like to know how she knew she was a prohibited possessor. I don't think that's something a non-gun person would about themselves. She had been hospitalized for mental health. That's probably something they tell you when you book out. Did she volunteer to go, or was she forced? Pulled this from an AFT pdf A person is "committed to a mental institution" if that person has been formally committed to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority. The term includes a commitment: To a mental institution involuntarily; For mental defectiveness or mental illness; or For other reasons, such as for drug use. The term does not include a person in a mental institution for observation or by voluntary admission. This is correct, it would have to have been ordered by the court.  So high likelihood she was prohibited, unless by "involuntarily" they mean "her family" and not "A lawful authority". These kinds of predatory lawyers tend to stretch the truth. So I still cannot say 100%. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 7/15/2022 1:08:03 AM EDT
[#6]
Why is no one thinking of the ambulance chasers? How are they going to afford their third home without a settlement!!!
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CA, USA
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Posted: 7/15/2022 1:10:32 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ar154all: This is bullshit. Get a GoFundMe. This effects us all. If everyone here coughs up $25, you'll probably be covered Stryker (sp?) still approves these things? |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 1:11:22 AM EDT
[#8]
That's fucking bullshit. What responsibility does ADCO bear for her death when this was obviously not impulsive on her part and she could have killed herself in any number of ways?
If somebody wants to kill themselves, they are GOING to kill themselves. I mean just look at Jeffrey Epstein... |
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USA
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Posted: 7/15/2022 1:11:23 AM EDT
[#9]
Good luck with this.
That’s terrible, and I’ll be pulling for you. Let us know if there is anything we can do to help you fight it. Many arfcommers will know this already, but I can hand on heart say you are one of the best people and ADCO is one of the best companies I have ever dealt with. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 1:24:50 AM EDT
[#10]
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OH, USA
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Posted: 7/15/2022 1:26:17 AM EDT
[#11]
I go back with ADCO pre Steve. I knew the Leo who owned the store prior to Steve. I recall the business negotiations. Steve would focus on tactical sales and his wife would keep the books. A.group of friends helped move the previous owner out so Steve could move in.
I live in Sylvania a mile or two away from his store. I have done buisness with Steve many, many times over many years. This is absolutely horrible and a sickening attack on a good man and his business. Steve is meticulous in following the letter of the law. This is fucking discusting and I will support the man anyway I can. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 7/15/2022 1:38:04 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex_F: Sounds like the guy admitted to making a straw purchase, not sure why ADCO is at fault for that. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 7/15/2022 1:43:47 AM EDT
[#13]
Was just about to send some more business your way. I’ll see if I can round up even more.
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Posted: 7/15/2022 1:48:21 AM EDT
[#14]
Complete bullshit of a situation.
Never had Op's company fix anything for me but if I needed it I'd sure use them. I am in for fiddy should a fund thinger be set up. Should probably move this to team though. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 2:03:21 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ar154all: This is bullshit. Get a GoFundMe. This effects us all. If everyone here coughs up $25, you'll probably be covered Stryker (sp?) still approves these things? I’m 100% in on this one. I’ve never had work done by Adco but have heard nothing but good things about them. Let’s all pitch in & put a stop to this bullshit. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 2:06:43 AM EDT
[#16]
Seems to me that the plaintiffs case relies heavily on the recommendations and suggestions put out by the USSF as if they are laws.
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Posted: 7/15/2022 2:11:06 AM EDT
[#17]
Dang- heard about the case but didn’t realize it was you.
Sue the lying POS who did the straw purchase. Seriously- even if you easily get this suit tossed, it costs you legal fees, stress, etc. Take anything that guy has left. (Probably nothing....) Fucking lawyers. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 2:14:44 AM EDT
[#18]
July 2020, 4th month of pandemic, lockdowns, social upheaval, kids going stir crazy. But somehow a firearms dealer is responsible? If she'd have downed a bottle of tylenol they wouldn't be suing walmart.
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USA
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Posted: 7/15/2022 2:25:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: PeteME]
[#19]
I’m not a lawyer, so take this with multiple grains of salt. Read the whole damn thing. 99% of the document is just saying the same thing over and over again. The only “evidence” is your statements of “in together multiple times before” and “strange dynamic”. My guess is your going to have to explain to the jury ideas about this you had that were other than “straw sale”. Can’t imagine 70 year old guy and 35 year old female are your typical straw sale demographic. Maybe it was a father and daughter who were nervous about buying a gun because they don’t have much experience with firearms? There’s got to be other scenarios that could have fit the scene.
Would think a weak point in their argument is that you knew the truth. How could you have known the truth? You could speculate at best but that’s not “knowing”. Line 8, you intentionally violated multiple firearms laws. Line 83, you knew exactly what was happening. Line 135: “knowingly engaged in an illegal straw sale” Don’t understand societies outrage over adults taking their own lives. I think if you’re over 25, not actively psychotic, and want to end your life you should be able to. People do these law suits for money and also to make themselves believe that their loved one isn’t responsible for their own death when indeed they are. I am sorry for their loss. Maybe she is truly more happy deceased. It’s certainly possible and I hope she is happy now. Not that I wanted her dead. And if she is as bright and talented as the mother says, then eventually she would have gotten the job done even without a gun. And oh, the guy who actually did knowingly commit the crime only got 10 months home confinement, lol during fucking Covid when most were home confined anyway. So much for 10 years and $250,000. Best of luck!!! |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 2:38:15 AM EDT
[#20]
hot garbage
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Posted: 7/15/2022 3:08:32 AM EDT
[#21]
I suggest your attorney hold up a card randomly pulled from a deck by the plaintiff's attorney to show that you are not psychic and couldn't possibly know that the male purchaser intended to give her the firearm. Also would point out that most straw purchases are for guns to be used in crimes and single action .22s don't remotely fit that possibility. Last, she could've purchased a box of helium at a party supply store for filling balloons and piped it into a bag over her head like shown on Hemlock Society videos or gotten a handful of pills, which she may have already had, being a nutjob with prior hospitalization.
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Posted: 7/15/2022 3:14:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: aeroworksxp]
[#22]
What a shit show.
Few things that come to mind after reading all that. Hindsight is 20/20 and it is ridiculous that they expected you to future crime every sale. Always Shut the F up when talking to police. Seems they are hanging you by your words that the couple "had a strange dynamic". Also, is the plaintiff attorney the mother of the suicide girl?  Attached FileGod speed on your defense. I have visited and purchased a few firearms and accessories over the years in your shop. You guys are a vital part of our community. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/15/2022 3:22:47 AM EDT
[#23]
So this is the crux of it.
 Old dude buys a fudd gun while accompanied by someone that could be his granddaughter. So suspicious. I notice they do not elaborate on what circumstances indicate the gun was for her. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/15/2022 3:24:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Scott-S6]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alien: That's fucking bullshit. What responsibility does ADCO bear for her death when this was obviously not impulsive on her part and she could have killed herself in any number of ways? If somebody wants to kill themselves, they are GOING to kill themselves. I mean just look at Jeffrey Epstein... The mother knows that she is at least somewhat responsible and seeks to assuage that by blaming everyone else. If the signs were allegedly so clear to a stranger than why didn't mom know her daughter was suicidal? |
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USA
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Posted: 7/15/2022 3:36:30 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SWOH: Also would point out that most straw purchases are for guns to be used in crimes and single action .22s don't remotely fit that possibility. I'm not an expert here but I wouldn't imagine that 22s are a popular choice for suicide either. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 3:49:56 AM EDT
[#26]
Am I reading this properly? They cut fucking Jerry loose (straw purchaser) but going after the innocent guy working the store?
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Posted: 7/15/2022 4:02:55 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aeroworksxp: Am I reading this properly? They cut fucking Jerry loose (straw purchaser) but going after the innocent guy working the store? If a few posts above is correct, the plaintiff attorney is possibly the chicks mother as well. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 4:12:02 AM EDT
[#28]
Sounds like they're trying to use this case to streghthen red flag laws and set a precedence. Although someone tagging along while someone buys a gun doesn't mean shit.
Due to suicides, all gun ranges around here wont rent a handgun out to a single individual unless they already have a gun with them, or they're not alone (2nd person tagging along to shoot too). The latter makes sense for this particular issue, however it doesnt mean anything in a gun store. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 4:17:11 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Liaztraht: I did miss the part in the complaint where it said "involuntarily hospitalized due to her mental health" on my first skimming. Non-searchable pdf on a phone sucks So high likelihood she was prohibited, unless by "involuntarily" they mean "her family" and not "A lawful authority". These kinds of predatory lawyers tend to stretch the truth. So I still cannot say 100%. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Liaztraht: Originally Posted By PreemptiveStrike: Originally Posted By Liaztraht: Originally Posted By TaskForce: Originally Posted By KILLERB6: I would like to know how she knew she was a prohibited possessor. I don't think that's something a non-gun person would about themselves. She had been hospitalized for mental health. That's probably something they tell you when you book out. Did she volunteer to go, or was she forced? Pulled this from an AFT pdf A person is "committed to a mental institution" if that person has been formally committed to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority. The term includes a commitment: To a mental institution involuntarily; For mental defectiveness or mental illness; or For other reasons, such as for drug use. The term does not include a person in a mental institution for observation or by voluntary admission. This is correct, it would have to have been ordered by the court. So high likelihood she was prohibited, unless by "involuntarily" they mean "her family" and not "A lawful authority". These kinds of predatory lawyers tend to stretch the truth. So I still cannot say 100%. Stood out to me too. It said she had been hospitalized for mental health it didn't specifically say she was involuntary committed. I wondered if she actually was prohibited and if the lawyer was stretching the truth. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 4:21:41 AM EDT
[#30]
wow, thats shitty
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USA
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Posted: 7/15/2022 4:22:39 AM EDT
[#31]
Sounds like their entire case hinges on the fact that the FFL noticed a "strange dynamic" between the two.
"Nope, I don't remember ever seeing them before. I see lots of people every day" probably would have saved you a lot of time and money. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 5:21:47 AM EDT
[#32]
You did the proper procedures,the buyer is to blame,the parents are to blame for the lawsuit, total clusterfuck, the lawyer is a scumbag also. Best of luck hope it gets thrown out.
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Posted: 7/15/2022 5:41:56 AM EDT
[#33]
I would countersue and include the law firm that is bringing this suit.
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USA
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Posted: 7/15/2022 5:45:12 AM EDT
[#34]
Terrible parent can't accept the reality of her own fucked up daughter.
Goes after innocents. Mom should be run out of town. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/15/2022 5:49:15 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By inzane123: I would countersue and include the law firm that is bringing this suit. Cooper and Elliott. Columbus. No northwest Ohio attorney would have touched this piece of shit case. They would have still had to live in the community. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 5:51:44 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Buffecmer: Whoever wrote the complaint should be easy pickings, probably doesn't know which end of the tube a bullet comes out of. The complaint says straw purchases is one of the "main ways" people that aren't able to obtain guns get them. How many "main ways" can there be,? I haven't read a ton of legal stuff but this looks like it was written by either someone who just passed the bar or someone in FJB's condition. Hang in there Steve. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 5:58:04 AM EDT
[#37]
If there's a lesson in there for remembering folks in the FFL setting,it's this... from now on " Yeah, they seemed like real nice folks". Otherwise, " Hmm, doesn't ring any bells but we're kinds busy". Whichever is the more honest answer. Anything you say can and will be used against you, and it's not necessarily always by police or prosecutors.
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USA
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Posted: 7/15/2022 5:58:52 AM EDT
[#38]
Make sure you counter sue her family for attorney's fees.
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Posted: 7/15/2022 6:09:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RABIDFOX50]
[#39]
Best of luck brother. That document has bullshit suit all over it! Speculation and hearsay. Wild accusations at best! Your Jonny Depp to their Amber Turd to put in into perspective! Make sure you counter sue to offset $$ lost!
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PA, USA
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Posted: 7/15/2022 6:09:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: averagedave]
[#40]
Another case made worse by talking to the police, just so lawyers can spend time twisting what was said.
Total BS case. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 7/15/2022 6:18:34 AM EDT
[#41]
Family should be suing the boyfriend and he should be arrested for the straw purchase. I hope you guys win.
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Posted: 7/15/2022 6:19:08 AM EDT
[#42]
Originally Posted By bigbore: I have turned everything over to Insurance, waiting on approval. I'll be retaining a personal attorney Monday. Unfortunately this has the potential to really get expensive. This case could have an impact on all FFLs. EVERYTHING I know about any of this is linked below and is public information. This is some interesting reading all around. Discuss among yourselves, I wont be participating/responding. Complaint Police Report keep this link cold - https://www.bradyunited.org/donor-spotlight/cooper-elliott Good luck. As an aside, the complaint indicates that the 70-year-old was charged for the straw purchase, with no indication that there was any finding of wrongdoing on your part by the prosecuting law enforcement agency. Further down the complaint, Mr. Alto states that you violated criminal laws. I'd argue that he has intentionally lied in his court filing. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 6:20:00 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: I responded to a lot more suicides by hanging than shooting. Nobody thinks of suing the hardware store. Wasn't Sarah Brady a drunk? Or am I thinking of one of the other gun grabbers? |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 6:20:19 AM EDT
[#44]
PLCAA.
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Posted: 7/15/2022 6:28:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1AEGW]
[#45]
Have you reached out to GOA, 2AF, or FPC for help?
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Posted: 7/15/2022 6:29:53 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By duke23433: I am an attorney, I am not your attorney, I would request site staff delete this thread. Yeah, you're prolly right. We should just shut up on this one and keep feet out of mouth. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 6:34:00 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scott-S6: So this is the crux of it. https://i.ibb.co/6nLgBRH/Screenshot-20220715-081948-1.png Old dude buys a fudd gun while accompanied by someone that could be his granddaughter. So suspicious. I notice they do not elaborate on what circumstances indicate the gun was for her. Of course not, they can't. That first bullet is ridiculous, it's as if they are arguing any group of people in a gun store should all have to do a NICS check if any one buy a gun. No effort is made to as much as assert a supposed indicator that he was buying for her, or that she was otherwise ineligible. And, as others noted, the fun involved wasn't even something you would associate with a suicide or even criminal activity. This should, in a just world, get tossed out immediately. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 6:38:43 AM EDT
[#48]
I can attest that ADCO is an amazing company. I have been there many times. This is a bogus attempt to place blame where it does not belong.
*When I worked for a dealer on the other side of town from ADCO I rejected MANY purchases because of the very obvious straw purchase in front of me. I to this day have that small thought in the back of my head I'll be sent a court summons from a firearm sale I made. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 6:44:50 AM EDT
[#49]
Sounds like Paul killed her.
If they really gave a shit about fake purchases they'd go after the people who buy the guns and make examples. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 6:49:25 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama-Shooter: Ya'll are good people. |
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