No doubt. I just know it’s available.

why do you want so bad for it to be that case that someone that serves but doesn't retire, will get healthcare for the remainder of their life?  

And as far a specific wording, IF you can find it, then you are the ONLY person in the world so far that has.  The VA is a huge mystery.

I say again though, why are people suing the VA for benefits that you claim they get automatically?  They should just show that link you put up that says you MAY be eligible for benefits and WAMO!! they get it for the rest of their life, just like that.

Added for your reading pleasure, though it seems you don't do that very well:

The word “may” is an expression of possibility, a permissive choice to act or not, and ordinarily implies some degree of discretion. This contrasts with the word “shall,” which is generally used to indicate a mandatory provision."

If your link said you SHALL receive VA benefits, you would have a point, but it says MAY.

JMHO, but anyone that puts their life on the line for the freedom of strangers that happen to be citizens of the same country they love deserve free Healthcare for life. It's a far more valuable use of taxpayers money than choking people that want to kill us on surf and turf meals followed by old wine.

WRONG, it simply means you can apply for VA, there is zero guarantee.  Like I keep saying over and over and over, you must have a service connected injury or diagnosis

This means if you went to basic and didn't finish, you cannot even apply.  But exemptions are made if you got some type of injury at basic training.

 

This is part of your problem, you have already made up your mind.  The other part is, you don't understand the English language. May vs Shall

Yall do realize that the VA does file on insurance?

As a nurse that now works in the VA system but had over 12 years outside of it….Mental health resources and substance abuse treatment in my area are far better than the outside community.  If you need/want admission for either, it always happens.

My dad served 2 years in the Navy (IIRC) as an airdale working on planes during the Vietnam war years. He's probably cost the taxpayers over 2 million alone in the past few years due to his refusal to take care of himself and the knowledge that the VA will pickup all of his medical costs.

There are a lot of men that have done exactly what I've done and some have done a hell of a lot more….and given more.  Regardless, it was job that I did , that's all.

That job requires certain abilities and skills. It also requires a certain psychological profile that's been well documented.  That particular psychological profile doesn't lend itself to documentation through the sick call process, for "routine" injuries. This fact, that guys in my line of work don't use sick call, is well known to both DoD and the medical community.  Again, if you want guys who are psychologically conditioned to perform high risk tasks you're going to have to expect that they won't document injuries, primarily out of concern that they'll get pulled from the game.  To ignore this fact and just state "all you have to do is document everything" speaks to someone that has no idea of the work and the people that do it.

Combat related severe injuries or those injuries requiring definitive care are a different matter and are documented but that's not really the issue at hand.

The issue are those injuries sustained through routine activities, both combat and training, that are both clinical as well as sub clinical but well known to the medical community to cause lasting and permanent damage. In particular is TBI from exposure to concussive blast waves.   This can include close proximity small arms fire, particularly in enclosed structures, explosives, etc…and so on… the point here isn't "if" the operator sustained TBI. He most certainly did and this is well known by the VA and VBA.  These injuries are cumulative, permanent and lead to significant medical conditions to include risk of suicide, early onset of dementia, Parkinson's and other conditions.

As I mentioned earlier SOCOM now has a process, Care Coalition, that when an Operator retires their career is documented with a cover letter that states this individual was exposed to X amount of blast waves form these sources. Regardless of the guy's med jacket the VA get's TOLD that this guy has TBI.

My tenure was before this process so I had to go back and document certain activities. I have no issue with that and in retrospect should I have documented everything while on active duty as you suggest? Fuck no I wouldn't have. You know why? Because I might have been pulled from the line up and out of the game. So I'm not bitching about having to provide documentation later in life.

What I am bitching about is being lied to by the VBA. I'm bitching about them "losing" my exams so they could deny my injuries and then finding them once threatened with a bonafide lawsuit. I'm bitching about it taking a congressional inquiry to fix my stuff.  I'm bitching about zero accountability at the VBA, and so on…

So before you look at all of this intellectually and find solutions never forget Agent Orange and how that's a baseline of the VA and how it treats vets.

Monsanto stated to the DoD in the late 1950's that Agent Orange causes cancer. Not that it might but that it DOES cause cancer. The VA knew this a few years later in the mid 1960's. Nonetheless this was all covered up and the result was that 10's of 1000's of men died horrible deaths with no support from the VA. The VA waited until the patient load was "manageable" and then came out and told everyone "we're here for the Vet" and certainly you can get treatment for Agent Orange exposure. That was after 95% of the patients were dead.  This isn't my opinion but has all come out in congressional testimony about 15 years ago and guess what? NO ONE was held accountable. Imagine that.


Finally, I'll mention a little anecdote ref the VA and their support to the Vet.  Two good friends of mine were dating. She was a former Combat Engineer officer with 2 tours and he a Marine HUMINT operator with Fallujah time. You guys that were there will know what that means, especially for a long hair working in the city. One morning he decides to get up and put a .45 slug through his mouth. After the dust settles she, a very sharp gal, decides to join the VA to try and fix the system that fucked him and many of us.

She worked out HQ in a SES billet and lasted about a year…when I asked why she left the job she simply stated that it's unfixable.  That it's so bloated with lifetime bureaucrats that it's not possible to fix….that making change to assist vets is way down on the priority list….and she was a deputy director.  So when someone tells me that they work for the VA and that they try to help I think perhaps at their level they're telling the truth but the whole story is much different.  

That being the case I operate under the premise that the VA wants us dead and off their rolls.  They are not your friend. In fact they are the fucking enemy. Act accordingly.

So at least by the early to mid 90s it was part of the recruitment pitch.  
In 2000 I was enrolled in VA healthcare, with zero disability rating, after a 4 year enlistment.
Anyone have an earlier date?

That would be correct.

I was like-
Hey, I grew up around a ton of vets,
Spent decades in, live around a bunch of retirees and vets-
And specifically without going into service connected, legit 100%, etc.
Have found out in the past few years like there is an entire subculture/movement/industry or whatever where people expect full medical coverage with no other insurance, etc. for being a vet for normal, everyday life, nothing to do with service stuff.
Most of us in my circle of vets and retirees had no idea this was a thing.
When did this happen?

And it became-
You hate vets
You suck
You didn’t have the balls to serve
We shouldn’t waste money one A,B,C,…
Vets should be covered etc.etc.

With like 87% of stuff said I agree with but not what I was talking about.  12.13% stuff I’m not sure WTF is going on-
And 0.87% what I was asking about.

Which branch did you serve in and for how long?  I am curious why you seem put off by the VA, were you denied services?  There are different ways to approach them if you have been turned away.

First off, I am your biggest advocate and if there was something I could do to help you, I would.

Once upon a time (20 years ago) we were running a PFT and I had a pneumothorax (collapsed lung).  I finished the three mile run out of stubbornness but then went to medical which led me to the base hospital then the naval hospital then the VA years later and BTW, deployed twice after this episode.  So yes, I ran three miles on one lung which was both bragging rights to my boss and colleagues but would have killed me if I didn't seek care and treatment.  In relation to this conversation, I did not receive an award or medal for running while injured; many probably thought, "Hey stupid, quit running then!"

There's obviously a disconnect in our perspectives which we aren't going to agree on.  I'm sorry that you think the VA is the enemy.

Are the patient outcomes better or the same as the private sector? The metrics of Obamacare have proven that access to care doesn't have any guaranteed impact on patient outcomes.

For any veterans out there or if you know of any that need an advocate, here are some resources:

Disabled American Veterans
https://www.dav.org/

American Veterans
https://www.amvets.org/

They can't help if you don't ask.

The system is broken to the point that the dude that sat in a missile silo now is service connected for hemorrhoids, carpal tunnel, sleep apnea and copd. That’s how you get those folks to 100%.

My VSO is a wiz at getting things service connected. Meanwhile, did 20 years ankle surges, shoulder surgeries, broken bones 3 tours in Iraq yada yada and I’m at 60 and feel like I’m 80 years old.

Sounds like you are under rated

Somehow, I managed to find the VA web site and post a link in 8.7 seconds, despite never having dealt with them.  A feat which you have been unable to do for some odd reason.  The web site says what it says - 24 months of continuous service.

Perhaps you can post details of your disallowed claim.  That might make it easier to suss out your problem.  Or maybe you'd rather complain in GD.  You wouldn't be the first.

I have not been in the .mil, but I found their web site in 8.7 seconds and it says what it says - 24 months continuous service to be eligible.

I do not know what level of coverage 24 months gets you.  I do not know if there are various levels of coverage based on time served, or injuries.

I linked the web site, and posted several direct quotes from it.

You have done a good deed - a mitzvah - today.  I hope the vets take advantage of it.

Please please please also go to the VA web site that I posted earlier.  READ IT.  It's a good place to start.

Good luck and God speed to our vets.

LOL prove that it's not sustainable.

I want a source besides your anus

Well, it's sustainable as long as the govt. can raise my taxes and print money to pay for it.  But that's not the normal definition of sustainable.

Providing lifetime medical coverage to every vet who serves 24 months is not sustainable, under the normally-accepted definition of the word.

Pretty much mirrors my career.  
If there happens to be no VA beds available and a veteran has to be referred out to the community, it can get ugly.  The vast majority of our patients prefer VA care and many will fight to remain in a VA facility.

Your reading comprehension is lacking. You didn't read and understand the exemptions in the site you posted. I can tell you weren't in the military, because your understanding of the subject is nonexistent.

People have already mentioned how VA math works for total disability, so I won’t mention that.

Another oddity of the system is stuff you think would add up to a lot, like foot blown off, broken arm on a jump, shot in arm with fracture, etc. get much lower numbers,
While subjective stuff that just has to say the right thing, be it migraines or whatever,
And normal medical stuff that happens to people as they age, get higher numbers than you would guess.

I’m familiar with the process. My retirement gig is volunteering helping vets with their claims.

When people are under rated it’s usually because they were granted service connection initially, but at a low percentage and have not asked for an increase as the condition worsened. Or they have not filed for presumptive conditions that they currently suffer from. Or they overlooked secondary conditions caused by their other service-connected conditions. As well as just being unaware of conditions that can be service connected. Scars being an example of a commonly overlooked claim

And I'm sorry that you don't seem to realize just how malicious the VA is.

Sorry you have had malicious experiences.
I think the ratings are skewed towards bullshit vs legit stuff.
I think the fact that is has 2X the % AA employees are as in the population and accepts non accredited distance learning degrees as legit for GS scale, etc. Creates some issues with efficiency, competence, etc.
I think the pay cap precludes many legit, good quality physicians.
I think it is the epitome of Pornelle’s Iron Law of Bureaucracy.
I think it is abused to the detriment of legit participants.

I would hope, but can’t say for sure about malicious intent on purpose.

Pournelle, not Pornelle

181,361 Cold War Veterans get fucked.
clear tinnitus, with medic drawn diagram of hole in ear drum on the official medical report and get told.... "Not service related."

To be clear, for the most part I'm not referring to the rank and file VA employee to include their medical staff.  I generally don't see them as malicious. More so my impression of the medical staff, in particular the Docs at the larger facilities, is that they are uncaring physicians who have abdicated their Hippocratic Oath and have allowed themselves to participate in a system to ultimately results in harm. They, along with other staff members,  support a system that's driven by policies that ultimately results in a malicious environment that provides marginal health care at best to Veterans.

Do they intend to do harm?  Difficult to say though I would like to think no, they don't. Their's are knowingly committing crimes of omission in patient care.  

Another anecdote….A good friend, former CDR now dead to suicide, was being evaluated for some type of disability condition. He's getting a work-up done and the tech asks him when his last heart attack was. My buddy was WTF, I've never had a heart attack? The tech goes "well dude, you're at about 40% cardiac output".   I don't remember the specifics but essentially the Doc doing his tests had known for about 2 years that he had a very serious heart condition. She never said a word.

Long story short is that he brought attorneys in, got civilian docs involved and began the process of taking legal action against not only the VA but also that specific doc. Turns out that by VA policy she wasn't allowed to tell him about his heart condition because this was a disability exam for another condition.  

She purposefully hid this information from him because, as she explained, this was VA policy as the concern was the Vet might also claim the newly discovered condition as a disability. Hence she was only allowed to discuss with him those aspects of the exams that pertained to the specific condition he claimed and nothing else.

Imagine that. A physician, someone who swore an oath to do no harm, denying a patient critical information that might cause his death if left untreated…..but that's the VA. They want you dead.

The above is just one of may a dozen examples that I'm aware. They did the same to me….they did the same to Agent Orange dudes. The same for the Gulf war syndrome guys….until they got got caught…..etc…

So yeah, are there good people at the VA/VBA? Sure there are but the ground truth is that the system is broke. As I mentioned earlier with the friend that was a SES at HQ VA…..it's unfixable in its current state. At the macro level it's a bloated corrupt GOV program.

That’s horrible.

And why that stuff is supposed to have been separated.

I’ll be happy if someone more specifically knowledgable chimes in-
But my understanding is VA does healthcare,
And at one time also did  the disability, rating, etc. exams.

And those kind of exams could not specifically discuss certain things with the patient, were being done by the entity that paid the ratings, etc. so at some point those type of exams were taken out of being done by VA providers.

I don’t know when this occurred.  I do know that 11 years or so ago when I was getting ready to retire, I have a picture somewhere taken for a joke, of about two inches of medical records and 1/4 inch of dental, that they make a copy of and send to the VA.

I received a handful of appointments to go to that were some kind of contracted specialist reviewers outside of the VA/mil.

Now, in all honesty everything that had a CT, MRI, surgery, etc. was very quickly approved and rated.
I can’t say the VA dragged stuff out, didn’t recognize it, etc.

The percentages are suspect in my opinion.  If some single term scammer getting chaptered out says they had a gazillion LOCs, has a normal MRI, but claims they have a ton of headaches, can’t work, etc. they can get a high rating.
But, you can be pushing 30 years with a handful of documented LOCs, blast exposures, TBIs, legit evidence of calcified micro bleeds all over MRI, - but functionally working in a significant role- so, since you function-0%.

I hadn’t meat this thread to be a debate/argument over the money we waste on non-citizens, parasite citizens, etc. Vs vets, or the VA rating system, or scam 100%ers, etc.

It was more of a
“Holy shit, people think one enlistment means full primary care and care for every normal life accident and illness that had nothing to do with service for life now, when did that become a thing.  It’s not even a thing for retirees. Have you guys heard of this?”

But it morphed into much more.

Also just found out there is a subset of military retirees who think they should go to the VA, and don’t understand they can just go to a .mil ER.

How do I fix that?

Read the rating criteria for your already service connected conditions. If you think you meet the higher rating file for an increase. CCK law has good breakdowns.

File for any secondary conditions caused by your already service connected conditions.

File for any presumption conditions you suffer from if you meet the date of service and location of service requirements; agent Orange, gulf war, southwest Asia service, PACT act.

File for any health conditions you currently suffer from and let the VA decide if they were caused by service.

I’ve known lots of guys in the military.

It’s just a cross section of the general public.  Lots of good dudes.  Many from lower socioeconomic classes.

Some shitbirds.

But very few deserve continual praise, support and adoration for the rest of their life because they spent a few years serving their nation.  It’s just a job for the vast majority.

My stepbrother is in that system right now I believe in your area. It’s his second round there as he relapsed. I hope it sticks this time as he’s a good guy but has some demons I guess.

There is plenty of benefit to taxpayers. Because it means that other taxpayers did their fighting for them.

VA is part of the overall cost of maintaining a standing military, and related to the success of our "all volunteer" military.

What has really happened is the Internet has made many of the VA's opaque policies a little easier to navigate. And yes, VA claims can also be total BS, for example, "sleep apnea" being a service connected disability that was at one point paying out at 60% disability and for which Air Force members were getting prescribed CPAPs in droves and then separating. But that is just BS bureaucracy. The VA is providing an essential service.

Sleep apnea is a real condition. If diagnosed during active duty it is service connected like any other condition diagnosed in service.

Sleep apnea with a CPAP is a 50% rating.

Yep. I got diagnosed with it while active duty when I was trying to solve emotional issues that were causing stress at home. Through multiple diagnostic and counseling programs, they discovered severe sleep apnea with me and issued me a CPAP. It completely solved most of my issues as apparently, I hadn't reached REM sleep in nearly a decade.

50% for the Sleep Apnea with CPAP is what they rated me at.

Closest mil ER is over three hours away, VA is 45 mins.

You think we put our lives on the line for freedom? If I'm gonna get my balls blown off for a word

They really don't though unless you have a rating above a certain percent. My brother did 5 years and has nothing, I did 10 and have a rating, my dad had nothing, a good question might be what % of veterans have a rating that provides them the VA healthcare coverage and of that how many utilize it? Its defiantly not even close to 100%.

That’s not what I meant.

I mean they made it 20 years in the military, retired, and didn’t know they could go to one.