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User Panel
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WV, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2024 11:07:29 AM EDT
It has been said by atheists that religion was invented by men to keep people in subjection. When this idea is carefully considered, it’s easy to see that they have not thought this through to its logical conclusion. Because if religion was created by men, then we must conclude that morality itself was also the created means for that control; hence the creation of laws.
But if there is no God, then this moral control is pointless in light of our potential death when everything ceases to exist, including our inner man. So why not ignore morality and use every possible means to get out of this life as much as you can? Lie, cheat, steal, etc. to get all you can while you’re alive, for in the end nothing matters. Tomorrow you die and that’s it. Atheists will then fall back on morality and say that it’s wrong to treat others in that manner. Really? What makes the difference in the end where there are no consequences? Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you die! While atheists claim to be free-thinkers, in reality their understanding doesn’t rise above the top of their own heads. Yet they think their understanding is the height of all knowledge. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 11:10:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: medicmandan]
[#1]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 3/11/2024 11:50:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ske714]
[#2]
So, the ONLY reason to be a decent human being is the prospect of damnation?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2024 12:23:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: medicmandan]
[#3]
[Deleted]
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USA
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Posted: 3/11/2024 12:25:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: medicmandan]
[#4]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 3/11/2024 12:27:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: medicmandan]
[#5]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 3/11/2024 12:50:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Please note which forum this is in and keep all replies serious and respectful.
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USA
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:15:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: feudist]
[#7]
Originally Posted By Sanelo: Let's take these one by one. It has been said by atheists that religion was invented by men to keep people in subjection. When this idea is carefully considered, it's easy to see that they have not thought this through to its logical conclusion. Because if religion was created by men, then we must conclude that morality itself was also the created means for that control; hence the creation of laws. Religion goes back into prehistory and exists in some form in all known human cultures. It clearly grew organically, arising from a number of Human psychological needs, superstitions, pattern matching and love of "Just so" stories. It has been used as a cynical control measure, as a way to comfort each other, and as a means of unifying people for altruistic actions...all religions are used for this. Going out on a limb, I'm guessing you're referring to only two of the Abrahamic religions, and only specific parts of them, as your evidence. Are you asserting that prior to ca 2500 BC...there were no laws and no moral codes among the thousands of cultures that had existed on the planet? If so, you are simply incorrect. But if there is no God, then this moral control is pointless in light of our potential death when everything ceases to exist, including our inner man. That's one possibility. "Moral control" has a utilitarian social function apart from your final destination. Self restraint also has obvious benefits for naked self interest. This would seem to be self evident unless one is being deliberately obtuse, or one's entire knowledge of history, humanity, civics and economics is based on solely on some translation of the Bible. The fundamental basis of living with each other isn't naked force, but obligation. These arise from being cared for, with extending and receiving favors, and from the feelings that friendship and solidarity bring against a deeply uncertain future. As populations grew and cultures complexified, this became more abstract and allowed more scope of action. Two brothers and a friend can't build, supply and defend a fort. A hundred people who can count on each other can. A number of forts, with shared supplies and security can defend a huge area from invaders. Now you have a civilization aborning. This brings its own set of problems, but there it is. So why not ignore morality and use every possible means to get out of this life as much as you can? Plenty of people do. They are universally referred to by the term "Criminal" Lie, cheat, steal, etc. to get all you can while you're alive, for in the end nothing matters. Tomorrow you die and that's it. For plenty of people that ensures that "Tomorrow" is in fact when their life ends. In fact, the inability to project a future and restrain themselves from instant gratification is the primary Hallmark of criminal personalities. Atheists will then fall back on morality and say that it's wrong to treat others in that manner. Really? "Morality" has until very recently been based on how far kinship extends in a given culture. Outside the kin circle, everyone else is fair game. The legal concept of Malum in se(Bad in itself) turns out to be a universal across time and culture. There are only a few such crimes-murder, robbery, theft, rape, assault. Malum prohibitum crimes are more time and culture specific, but they share common roots. Public order, the ability to conduct trade, controlling and identifying paternity(sexual mores) are again prevalent in all legal codes. If a state of lawless chaos exists(and it has occurred many times throughout history) the central tendency has been towards organization and the reestablishment of public order. This allows the peace, trade and security that are fundamental human cultural goals. What makes the difference in the end where there are no consequences? Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you die! This tends to be the credo of sociopaths. While atheists claim to be free-thinkers, in reality their understanding doesn't rise above the top of their own heads. Yet they think their understanding is the height of all knowledge. Quite true for many atheists. As well as Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Communists ...IOW, humanity in general. Hardly a world shattering insight. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 1:18:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: laxman09]
[#8]
Most of those things you mentioned have "earthly" consequences (eg prison, loss of rights) that I would prefer to avoid which make life more difficult than it needs to be.
The only afterlife I care about is what impression I left on those around me, specifically my two daughters. I expect nothing once my eyes close for the last time. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 2:28:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By medicmandan: Please note which forum this is in and keep all replies serious and respectful. His entire post is disrespectful. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2024 2:38:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BadRREngineer]
[#10]
Originally Posted By Sanelo: It has been said by atheists that religion was invented by men to keep people in subjection. When this idea is carefully considered, it’s easy to see that they have not thought this through to its logical conclusion. Because if religion was created by men, then we must conclude that morality itself was also the created means for that control; hence the creation of laws. But if there is no God, then this moral control is pointless in light of our potential death when everything ceases to exist, including our inner man. So why not ignore morality and use every possible means to get out of this life as much as you can? Lie, cheat, steal, etc. to get all you can while you’re alive, for in the end nothing matters. Tomorrow you die and that’s it. Atheists will then fall back on morality and say that it’s wrong to treat others in that manner. Really? What makes the difference in the end where there are no consequences? Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you die! While atheists claim to be free-thinkers, in reality their understanding doesn’t rise above the top of their own heads. Yet they think their understanding is the height of all knowledge. There’s a metric fuckton of garbage in the quote above, so I will make this easy for you. Atheism is a position that there is insufficient evidence of any god. It is not a religion, or anything else, it is simply an understanding that there is no evidence. I don’t think Bigfoot exists. That doesn’t mean I have an anti Bigfoot religion, it means I have seen no conclusive evidence. The reason you treat people well without threat of a hell, etc, is because if you don’t, people won’t like you. In fact, they might not only shun you, if you’re an asshole, they just might kill you. Acting in a moral manner leads to societal harmony. Pack animals like wolves and primates do it, and so do we. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2024 2:42:41 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ske714: So, the ONLY reason to be a decent human being is the prospect of damnation? If a person acts decent because of a threat, then that is all it is, an act. Decent people are decent without violent externalities hanging over them. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 2:49:13 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BadRREngineer: If a person acts decent because of a threat, then that is all it is, an act. Decent people are decent without violent externalities hanging over them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BadRREngineer: Originally Posted By ske714: So, the ONLY reason to be a decent human being is the prospect of damnation? If a person acts decent because of a threat, then that is all it is, an act. Decent people are decent without violent externalities hanging over them. Exactly so. But it's sad to think of the world we'd have, without repercussions. I guess we'll find out soon enough, the way things are headed. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 4:42:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Let's wrap this up before someone gets a warning.
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