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USA
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Posted: 3/17/2024 2:16:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 32ACP]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: What do you expect to be left after 12-13,000 years? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: Originally Posted By 32ACP: “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof….” Carl Sagan I get it. My training is in chemistry. However, with human civilization/cultures and natural disasters of various planetary scale, like plagues, volcanoes & tsunamis, we will not know to provide data until it’s found, which may be never. Examples include The Dead Sea Scrolls, Ötzi, The Rosetta Stone, etc. or, penicillin or thiokol. Assumptions Atlantis was über-advanced are pointless because we have never found any evidence that past human tech is more advanced than current human tech. What do you expect to be left after 12-13,000 years? Ooo! Looky—Top o’ Three & it’s me! Structures of some sort. Pottery, properly prepared & fired is quite durable. Evidence of “advanced metallurgy” mining & processing, since metals are usually from ores in low percents that require processing. Again, there are huge limitations: if a significant natural event literally wiped the culture literally off the surface of earth, we will not know until we find it, like the examples I cited. Laws of Probability often laugh ironically when an unlikely possibility becomes truth. I think it’s the universe reminding humanity to avoid hubris.  |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 2:27:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wizzy: Reminiscent of covid & the vax, there's a pervasive mind-control in the world of science, history, and archaeology to deny any free-thinking or examinations of evidence that contradict official narratives. What was it, 30 years ago that one group found 150,000 year old homo sapien bones and the entire scientific community called them bullshit artists. Now we know they were fucking idiots and who knows what other things were lost because “that’s just not possible in my opinion”. Now we know Homo sapiens and Neanderthals coexisted for thousands of years and even bred together. I think home sapien bones have been dated as far back as 250,000 years at this point. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 2:28:26 PM EDT
[#3]
It's obvious that prehistoric societies existed. It's not hard to imagine that mythology arose after some of those societies collapsed
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USA
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Posted: 3/17/2024 2:31:43 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PanzerOfDoom: Just having a civil discussion on ancient history is fairly extraordinary for GD. It does amaze me that we probably don’t know as much as we actually know. That contemporary experts continue to discount our recent and distant pasts is rather disturbing. Truth! I love when “experts” render an “opinion” that is near-accepted until it’s wrong. The quickest example I can think of while typing was the “cougars/catamounts don’t exist east of the Mississippi…” followed by the dead cougar in CT: https://www.ctpublic.org/news/2022-08-25/wildlife-biologist-breaks-down-mountain-lion-sightings-in-ct Which, of course was followed by “explanations” of why they’re “still right…” “not an eastern cat,” etc, which is often techno-babble and….”it’s too technical for your level of understanding….” Like I said—I am convinced Atlantis was real, “advanced” by comparison to other competitive cultures; but they weren’t as technologically advanced like flying, polymer science, meds/surgery, moving pictures, advanced metallurgy, recorded sounds, etc—maybe, but probably not. Advanced tech/intellectual property is readily sold or appropriated into/by other cultures once trade routes are established. The culture wouldn’t be in total isolation, or the myth wouldn’t have been known by other cultures & recorded. Again, we won’t know until we find it & piece it together, if ever; “chance” is a fickle biotch. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 2:32:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 32ACP: Structures of some sort. Pottery, properly prepared & fired is quite durable. Evidence of “advanced metallurgy” mining & processing, since metals are usually from ores in low percents that require processing. Again, there are huge limitations: if a significant natural event literally wiped the culture literally off the surface of earth, we will not know until we find it, like the examples I cited. Laws of Probability often laugh ironically when an unlikely possibility becomes truth. I think it’s the universe reminding humanity to avoid hubris. Without some coincidence of preservation, there is nothing humans make that wouldn’t decompose in 12,000 years. Add massive flooding to the mix and yeah, the earth got rinsed. I still think the Sahara could tell us a lot if we could scrape away a couple hundred feet of sand. It likely would have been the most populated place on the earth pre-flood. Gobelki Tepe is one of the oldest structures to exist at around 12,000 years old. The only reason we have it is because someone intentionally buried it. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/17/2024 2:32:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 32ACP]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By st0newall: someday.. in the far far future, people will tell tales of a place called florida that sank into the ocean. it wont sink, it will simply be flooded by all the icecaps melting. Yet the Legend of Floridaman will continue…. 
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Posted: 3/17/2024 2:36:07 PM EDT
[#7]
I'm in the " there's probably more we don't know than we do" camp. So I think it's possible the tales were based on a real place. I don't believe that place had flying cars or similar technology.
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LA, USA
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Posted: 3/17/2024 2:37:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Real place, probably in the Mediterranean, probably stomped by some natural disaster and eventually became myth
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Posted: 3/17/2024 2:38:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 32ACP: Structures of some sort. Pottery, properly prepared & fired is quite durable. Evidence of "advanced metallurgy" mining & processing, since metals are usually from ores in low percents that require processing. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 2:47:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Serious Q: It's been claimed here and elsewhere that Atlantis was an "advanced" society. What does "advanced" mean? What did they have? Lasers in the 40W range? Or flying cars like in the Jetsons? Or living in mud huts with just a few less deaths from minor infections?
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Posted: 3/17/2024 2:48:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By motoguy: Historically human population centers have clustered at waters edge. I suspect a lot of what we'd like to find is a couple hundred feet underwater. And then under potential mudslides or debris fields. True, but it doesn't have to be salt water. The Tigris & Euphrates are rivers, and they are the "Cradle of Civilization." |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/17/2024 2:54:21 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lou_Daks: Serious Q: It's been claimed here and elsewhere that Atlantis was an "advanced" society. What does "advanced" mean? What did they have? Lasers in the 40W range? Or flying cars like in the Jetsons? Or living in mud huts with just a few less deaths from minor infections? I think it was advanced all right. By which I mean advanced neolithic, possibly early bronze age civilization with an emphasis on seamanship, navigation and astronomy. (Or astrology, if you prefer). They were able to make long sea voyages and build huge stone structures. Probably understood mathematics very well. No lasers, no flying cars, no giant glowing crystals. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 2:57:50 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lou_Daks: Serious Q: It's been claimed here and elsewhere that Atlantis was an "advanced" society. What does "advanced" mean? What did they have? Lasers in the 40W range? Or flying cars like in the Jetsons? Or living in mud huts with just a few less deaths from minor infections? Who knows, but I can tell you this. The Indus Valley civilization at Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro in India and Pakistan, over 5,000 years ago, had a sewage system, public baths, urban planning, a very modern, egalitarian system of government and extensive trade with most city dwellers being traders and artisans. 5,000 years ago. Then suddenly, about 4,000 years ago, the cities were abandoned and everyone either died or left and all we have are the ruins. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 3:27:19 PM EDT
[#14]
History holds some truly fascinating nuggets. I was always impressed by Xenophon’s descriptions of the ruins of Nineveh and Nimrud, recorded around 401BCE in Anabasis, and literally laughed out loud by Hesiod’s description of gold digging Thot’s in Works and Days(370) from the 8th century BCE.
You can look at Nimrud with google earth and see where ISIS tried to erase history that’s been with us for so long. The first translation of Hesiod I listened to on a podcast was something like, “don’t be fooled by her chattering banter and wiggling behind, she’s only after your granary.” |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 4:11:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dragynn]
[#15]
I think real. Most likely spot IMO is where the Azores are now. Huge earthquake south of there all along the line where the Atlantic plate and the African plate meet, created probably the most massive tsunami in history, which traveled east and wiped out most of North Africa which was probably full of lush vegetation just like the rest of Africa, rolled over it and the Arabian peninsula turning all of it to desert.
The Azores area on the north end are where 3 plates meet, only lightly sideswiped by tsunami but the earthquake ripped it apart and one plate subducted and took most of Atlantis down with it. Seems reasonable and simple as far as explanations go. I don't believe they had any special technology, but were likely a sea-faring people of great skill. Have a look at google maps, you can clearly see the plate lines i'm talking about. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 9:38:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dragynn: I think real. Most likely spot IMO is where the Azores are now. Huge earthquake south of there all along the line where the Atlantic plate and the African plate meet, created probably the most massive tsunami in history, which traveled east and wiped out most of North Africa which was probably full of lush vegetation just like the rest of Africa, rolled over it and the Arabian peninsula turning all of it to desert. The Azores area on the north end are where 3 plates meet, only lightly sideswiped by tsunami but the earthquake ripped it apart and one plate subducted and took most of Atlantis down with it. Seems reasonable and simple as far as explanations go. I don't believe they had any special technology, but were likely a sea-faring people of great skill. Have a look at google maps, you can clearly see the plate lines i'm talking about. That's what I thought as well. And it's possible. But check out BrightInsight on youtube. I think the Richat is more likely now. |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 3/17/2024 9:49:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USMC2111: The ancient flood stories are now believed to be based on the ice dam separating what is now the Black Sea from the Mediterranean giving way at the end of the last Ice Age. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USMC2111: Originally Posted By Kraquine: A perpetual myth much like the flood of Gilgamesh and others concocted during the metal age. The ancient flood stories are now believed to be based on the ice dam separating what is now the Black Sea from the Mediterranean giving way at the end of the last Ice Age. It wasn’t just there, it happened all over the world. The channeled scablands in the north west are another example. The scale of the ice age floods and rapid sea level rise of the end of the ice age make the flood stories of many ancient cultures very believable |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 9:50:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bellows1: Real. I used to think myth until they started finding all of these lost cities around the globe. Somewhere off the coast of Africa probably. There have been some strange things found… |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 9:53:47 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jwliv180: Not bad. The original series was better and McCabe was really irritating. This |
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USA
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Posted: 3/17/2024 9:56:32 PM EDT
[#20]
The esoteric community largely perceives it as myth. It was pushed as real for quite awhile in the 30’s through the early 2000’s in that community as well as the “New Age” fad that was popular in the 90’s. Many publications spoke on it as if it were real.
There are still some holdouts that compare it to a type of “paradise” or “Eden” type place, but the more serious of that community has agreed it’s more myth than anything else. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/17/2024 10:00:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Stories of the Richat structure might well have been part of the stories handed down to Plato. If it existed, the empire of Atlantis might have been on a variety of islands as well as 4 continents. The British empire wasn't limited to one island, for example.
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Posted: 3/17/2024 10:26:40 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lou_Daks: Serious Q: It's been claimed here and elsewhere that Atlantis was an "advanced" society. What does "advanced" mean? What did they have? Lasers in the 40W range? Or flying cars like in the Jetsons? Or living in mud huts with just a few less deaths from minor infections? Forget about what we in the 21st century would consider advanced. That is a big error. Think about advanced to the REST of the ancient world. I am a fan of Graham Hancock. He has sorta/kinda made finding Atlantis his life quest. He is a little out there on a couple things, but he made some very powerful arguments about a wiped-out advanced civilization existing in the ancient world. We are now accepting the fact that a comet/pieces of a comet struck along the North American Ice Sheet, causing a world-wide catastrophe 12,500+- years ago, during the Stone Age. There are a LOT of ancient accounts of catastrophe all over the world, and most of them ALSO mention strangers arriving from the sea, bringing knowledge with them. Knowledge about farming/agriculture, mathematics, astronomy, etc., etc. Remember we're talking about hunter/gatherers here being the norm. ANYTHING would be "advanced" to them. What the hell did they know, other than making skin clothes and whacking animals? Graham Hancock believes, and I tend to agree with him, that there is evidence all over the world that supports an "advanced" Stone Age society. There are many structures that are probably MUCH older than the accepted dates that were probably designed/started/built by these "strangers." |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 11:21:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Wizzy]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By @burnprocess: There have been some strange things found… Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By @burnprocess: Originally Posted By @Bellows1: Real. I used to think myth until they started finding all of these lost cities around the globe. Somewhere off the coast of Africa probably. There have been some strange things found… Elaborate? |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 1:33:35 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wizzy: Elaborate? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wizzy: Originally Posted By @burnprocess: Originally Posted By @Bellows1: Real. I used to think myth until they started finding all of these lost cities around the globe. Somewhere off the coast of Africa probably. There have been some strange things found… Elaborate? Indeed! Some of the things that have been found are quite elaborate. Some of them are simple, though. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 1:45:59 PM EDT
[#25]
Real. I just know it somehow.
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Posted: 3/18/2024 2:30:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wizzy: Elaborate? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wizzy: Originally Posted By @burnprocess: Originally Posted By @Bellows1: Real. I used to think myth until they started finding all of these lost cities around the globe. Somewhere off the coast of Africa probably. There have been some strange things found Elaborate?  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 3:32:41 PM EDT
[#27]
OST for after work
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Posted: 3/18/2024 3:41:17 PM EDT
[#28]
Really existed, but got hyped into myth over thousands of years of telling and retelling.
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Posted: 3/19/2024 9:39:26 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Freiheit338: The London Hammer https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/215362/main-qimg-2708b259b773b705b89dc85911ea7c-3162795.JPG Yeah, that's an interesting one. The mainstream view is the rock somehow concreted itself around the hammer, and the wood carbon-dates to 350 years ago. https://ancient-hebrew.org/ancientman/1002.html |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 5:26:00 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ka-tetof1: The esoteric community largely perceives it as myth. It was pushed as real for quite awhile in the 30’s through the early 2000’s in that community as well as the “New Age” fad that was popular in the 90’s. Many publications spoke on it as if it were real. There are still some holdouts that compare it to a type of “paradise” or “Eden” type place, but the more serious of that community has agreed it’s more myth than anything else. They said the same thing about Troy..Until it was found. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 5:29:34 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lou_Daks: Serious Q: It's been claimed here and elsewhere that Atlantis was an "advanced" society. What does "advanced" mean? What did they have? Lasers in the 40W range? Or flying cars like in the Jetsons? Or living in mud huts with just a few less deaths from minor infections? Any proof that they all got wiped out and that some didn’t flee into space/hide on Earth? |
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