Boeing, NASA target first crewed flight of Starliner. 5 June. 10:52 AM EDT - Page 4

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Boeing, NASA target first crewed flight of Starliner. 5 June. 10:52 AM EDT (Page 4 of 9)

DarkGray

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Posted: 5/1/2024 9:24:35 AM EDT

[#1]

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Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
When the first crewed Dragon flew, a crewed Starliner was still years away.

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Ok? It still doesn't change that starliner has hardware on the pad and crewed dreamchaser is still vapor ware.
Are you really advocating cancelling starliner right now?
I would be just fine if starliner only flies every few years as nothing more than a backup crew option until starship is man rated.
Ditching starliner now would mean the only crew alternative would again be soyuz which I'm sure the Russians would be happy to take full advantage of.

AmericanPeople

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Posted: 5/1/2024 12:43:12 PM EDT

[#2]

Quote History

Originally Posted By DarkGray:

Ok? It still doesn't change that starliner has hardware on the pad and crewed dreamchaser is still vapor ware.
Are you really advocating cancelling starliner right now?
I would be just fine if starliner only flies every few years as nothing more than a backup crew option until starship is man rated.
Ditching starliner now would mean the only crew alternative would again be soyuz which I'm sure the Russians would be happy to take full advantage of.

View Quote

Is the plan to develop a crewed Dream Chaser? I am skeptical that Starship will be man-rated.

ArmyInfantryVet Joined Nov 2005 Posts 86238 EE 100% (4) MI, USA	Posted: 5/1/2024 12:45:18 PM EDT [#3] I'm not getting inside a capsule built by Boeing.

Hesperus

We will softly slip away.

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Posted: 5/1/2024 12:49:03 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Originally Posted By AmericanPeople:
Is the plan to develop a crewed Dream Chaser? I am skeptical that Starship will be man-rated.

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Starship will be man rated. As a lunar lander at first, per their NASA contract. If they fly it a third as often as they intend to they will work out any bugs fairly quickly.

SNC seem to be waffling back and forth on a crewed Dream Chaser. Probably waiting until there is a market for such a thing. I would guess they want to do it but at the moment its a bigger expense than what the company can justify. If Starliner fails spectacularly and those contracts are cancelled it will probably provide a major incentive for a manned Dream Chaser.

It’s… probably not as bad as you think it is.

1Andy2

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Posted: 5/1/2024 2:46:44 PM EDT

[Last Edit: 1Andy2] [#5]

Quote History

Originally Posted By Hesperus:

Starship will be man rated. As a lunar lander at first, per their NASA contract. If they fly it a third as often as they intend to they will work out any bugs fairly quickly.

SNC seem to be waffling back and forth on a crewed Dream Chaser. Probably waiting until there is a market for such a thing. I would guess they want to do it but at the moment its a bigger expense than what the company can justify. If Starliner fails spectacularly and those contracts are cancelled it will probably provide a major incentive for a manned Dream Chaser.

View Quote

Dreamchaser was planned for crew from the start. It's only been developed as an unmanned cargo runner because that's what NASA paid for.

If it works out as a cargo runner, it makes no sense not to make a crewed version. The ability to land on a runway is an even bigger advantage for crew than it is an empty ship or one with trash or science experiments.

Starliner isn't at risk of failing spectacularly. It already has. I suspect that NASA is already pinning hopes on Dreamchaser as a replacement for it. Starliner hasn't killed anyone...yet. But the program has been a complete shitshow.

Never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. - Adm James Stockdale

ArmyInfantryVet

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Posted: 5/1/2024 2:53:29 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Dreamchaser was planned for crew from the start. It's only been developed as an unmanned cargo runner because that's what NASA paid for.

If it works out as a cargo runner, it makes no sense not to make a crewed version. The ability to land on a runway is an even bigger advantage for crew than it is an empty ship or one with trash or science experiments.

Starliner isn't at risk of failing spectacularly. It already has. I suspect that NASA is already pinning hopes on Dreamchaser as a replacement for it. Starliner hasn't killed anyone...yet. But the program has been a complete shitshow.

View Quote

Just looked up what Dreamcatcher is. It looks like that emergency shuttle they were going to permanently station on the ISS in case of the crew needing to quickly abandon the ISS.

1Andy2 Member Joined Jul 2004 Posts 113593 EE 100% (71) TX, USA	Posted: 5/1/2024 3:00:59 PM EDT [#7] Quote History Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Just looked up what Dreamcatcher is. It looks like that emergency shuttle they were going to permanently station on the ISS in case of the crew needing to quickly abandon the ISS. View Quote It honestly looks alot like what the shuttle should have been from the very start
	Never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. - Adm James Stockdale

Hesperus We will softly slip away. Joined Jan 2014 Posts 34485 EE 100% (6) ID, USA	Posted: 5/1/2024 3:04:11 PM EDT [#8] Quote History Originally Posted By 1Andy2: It honestly looks alot like what the shuttle should have been from the very start View Quote Something designed to go back and forth between a space station and not something built to snatch Soviet spy satellites and put large American spy satellites in orbit?
	It’s… probably not as bad as you think it is.

1Andy2 Member Joined Jul 2004 Posts 113595 EE 100% (71) TX, USA	Posted: 5/1/2024 3:09:52 PM EDT [#9] Quote History Originally Posted By Hesperus: Something designed to go back and forth between a space station and not something built to snatch Soviet spy satellites and put large American spy satellites in orbit? View Quote I'd like to believe that as an explanation for it.
	Never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. - Adm James Stockdale

Imzadi

Joined Jan 2018
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EE 100% (1)

AZ, USA

Posted: 5/1/2024 3:18:06 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

I'd like to believe that as an explanation for it.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By Hesperus:

Something designed to go back and forth between a space station and not something built to snatch Soviet spy satellites and put large American spy satellites in orbit?

I'd like to believe that as an explanation for it.

The Most Important Space Shuttle Mission Never Happened

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q2i0eu35aY

DubyaB Member Joined Mar 2019 Posts 14470 EE 100% (2) WA, USA	Posted: 5/1/2024 3:19:15 PM EDT [#11] Quote History Originally Posted By Hesperus: Good luck with that. They are going to need it. Glad I'm not taking that ride. View Quote Not the first one. Buy I'd take the 4th
	"There's an inner idiot in us just waiting to climb out and romp about in unabashed stupidity, but most people retain just enough wit to keep the idiot bottled up."

mikeyb76 Joined Mar 2024 Posts 190 EE 0% (0) UT, USA	Posted: 5/1/2024 4:51:34 PM EDT [#12] Has the "Butch Cassidy & The Suni[Dance] Kid" joke been made already? The fall will definitely kill them.

AmericanPeople Member Joined Dec 2012 Posts 59822 EE 0% (0) CO, USA	Posted: 5/2/2024 11:11:46 AM EDT [#13] Weather 90% GO for Monday's launch The forecast from Launch Weather Officer Brian Belson of the Space Force's 45th Weather Squadron indicates a 90 percent chance of acceptable conditions for Monday's 10:34 p.m. EDT (0234 UTC) launch of Atlas V and Boeing's Starliner.

AmericanPeople Member Joined Dec 2012 Posts 59834 EE 0% (0) CO, USA	Posted: 5/3/2024 10:49:33 AM EDT [#14] Atlas V Starliner CFT Mission Profile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYy3uZA-y8

Mal_means_bad Member Joined Oct 2008 Posts 29942 EE 0% (0) IN, USA	Posted: 5/3/2024 11:07:23 AM EDT [#15] In other news, OIG report on uncrewed Orion capsule test reveals heat shield failure worse than previously revealed by NASA, burnthrough caused some damage to the capsule Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File

RattleCanAR A Grendel's Love is different from a 5.56's Love Joined Nov 2010 Posts 37313 EE 100% (1) SC, USA	Posted: 5/3/2024 11:26:35 AM EDT [#16] I hope all the nuts and bolts are in it.
	Leave me alone. I’m a libertarian. CW vet x7, give away a kidney to a loved one if they need it.

RattleCanAR

A Grendel's Love is different from a 5.56's Love

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Posted: 5/3/2024 12:34:49 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
In other news, OIG report on uncrewed Orion capsule test reveals heat shield failure worse than previously revealed by NASA, burnthrough caused some damage to the capsule

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/172926/6984D37F-4C47-4ACE-80AC-623581C04049_jpe-3204399.JPG

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/172926/D888D863-86B8-488F-B7EF-F6968FFFDE84_jpe-3204400.JPG

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/172926/303D8F0B-2BEE-462F-852B-4B8F4DF06C7D_jpe-3204402.JPG

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/172926/D0C1876F-11A6-4C91-8A37-B5CA32E25A58_jpe-3204405.JPG

View Quote

No way I would ride in that thing.

Leave me alone. I’m a libertarian. CW vet x7, give away a kidney to a loved one if they need it.

Chokey Member Joined Oct 2001 Posts 94383 EE 0% (0) OH, USA	Posted: 5/3/2024 6:03:05 PM EDT [#18] The Launch Readiness Review has been successfully completed. We are not working any issues. Pgo is 95% for weather. Let’s go to space. #Starliner Tory Bruno (@torybruno) May 3, 2024

AmericanPeople Member Joined Dec 2012 Posts 59843 EE 0% (0) CO, USA	Posted: 5/3/2024 8:08:56 PM EDT [#19] If that separation bolt is subject to the high heat of re-entry, how should it look?

AmericanPeople Member Joined Dec 2012 Posts 59847 EE 0% (0) CO, USA	Posted: 5/3/2024 10:37:00 PM EDT [#20] NASA’s Boeing Starliner Crew Flight Test Prelaunch News Conference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY9H_eP6oEg

cavedog Old Foole Joined Jul 2010 Posts 36200 EE 0% (0) FL, USA	Posted: 5/3/2024 10:37:15 PM EDT [#21] Those poor people.
	"It is a political convention. The criminals will be on the inside." -ParityError

Cobalt135

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Posted: 5/4/2024 12:39:04 AM EDT

[Last Edit: Cobalt135] [#22]

Quote History

Originally Posted By cavedog:
Those poor people.

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The Atlas V rocket has 99 launches with success and no failures since 2002 so the Atlas V stage will likely be no issue. Starliner is what is in question here. Other than the environmental control systems (climate control and 02 system) I guess death would be quick and painless if an issue happens between launch and docking with ISS.

The claimed free flight duration of Starliner is 60 hours. So if it could not dock due to issues I would think that is the max time to re-enter and return crew safe. If the maneuvering system is working as designed. (which it didn't on it's first flight).

If they make it to ISS and dock (24 hour journey), but find issues while on station that keep them from making safe return in Starliner then any or even all crew aboard ISS could ride the Dragon and Soyuz back down to Earth if needed depending on how severe the issue was.

If after nearly a week docked to ISS testing and the test crew board Starliner then undock and return to land (6 hours minimum from undock to first re-entry window) and there is an issue with environmental control or navigation/thrusters/de-orbit burns then we could witness another Columbia like accident.

Landing zones are not splashdown in the ocean but: White Sands Missile Range, New Mexico; Willcox, Arizona; Dugway Proving Ground, Utah. And Edwards Air Force Base as a contingency.

AmericanPeople

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Posted: 5/4/2024 12:05:46 PM EDT

[#23]

On the pad!

Our Atlas V rocket has arrived at its Cape Canaveral pad to launch two astronauts Monday night on Boeing's Crew Flight Test in NASA's Commercial Crew Program. Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams, both retired Navy captains, space shuttle fliers and past long-duration residents aboard the International Space Station, will test the Starliner spacecraft in preparation for regular crew rotation missions to the station beginning next year.

Interesting that there are three landing sites.

AmericanPeople Member Joined Dec 2012 Posts 59865 EE 0% (0) CO, USA	Posted: 5/5/2024 9:43:37 AM EDT [#24] May 04 15:24. Rollout day concludes The joint ULA, Boeing and NASA team is wrapping up the planned activities for rollout day and the Atlas V rocket is being powered down for the night. The next event will be starting the launch countdown Monday morning.

Kharn

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Posted: 5/5/2024 9:56:13 AM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Originally Posted By AmericanPeople:
May 04 15:24. Rollout day concludes

The joint ULA, Boeing and NASA team is wrapping up the planned activities for rollout day and the Atlas V rocket is being powered down for the night. The next event will be starting the launch countdown Monday morning.

https://img.24live.co/event/3520105635873268419/20240504212430_668430.jpeg

View Quote

That's the vibe you get when you haven't unlocked unlimited parts count in Kerbal Space Program.

Kharn

Dagger41 Member Joined Sep 2011 Posts 61434 EE 0% (0) FL, USA	Posted: 5/5/2024 9:57:49 AM EDT [#26] Launch forecast is 90% go for weather. So far all systems are go with the rocket/payload.
	It's a strange, strange world we live in, Master Jack

Chokey Member Joined Oct 2001 Posts 94400 EE 0% (0) OH, USA	Posted: 5/5/2024 10:55:18 AM EDT [#27]

FALex

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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:25:38 AM EDT

[Last Edit: FALex] [#28]

Teacher, I have a question! This video shows us a hypersonic sled travelling at 6600mph. According to NASA, rockets needs to be rolling out at almost 25000mph to escape earth's atmosphere. This equates to roughly 4 miles per second.

Why can I not see the sled, even when they slow the frame rate down? It is moving 4x slower than the usual rockets we see, and we can see them for quite an extended period of time.

Hypersonic Sled Travels at 6,599 mph - Secret Test Site

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yos4oz_d0c0

dorobuta

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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:40:04 AM EDT

[Last Edit: dorobuta] [#29]

Quote History

Originally Posted By FALex:
Teacher, I have a question! This video shows us a hypersonic sled travelling at 6600mph. According to NASA, rockets needs to be rolling out at almost 25000mph to escape earth's atmosphere. This equates to roughly 4 miles per second.

Why can I not see the sled, even when they slow the frame rate down? It is moving 4x slower than the usual rockets we see, and we can see them for quite an extended period of time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yos4oz_d0c0

View Quote

Because the rockets are accelerating, and don’t reach escape velocity until well into the launch. They are moving relatively slowly because they’re heavy and it takes time to accelerate to speed.

If you can't take the high road, occupy the high ground.

Dagger41 Member Joined Sep 2011 Posts 61436 EE 0% (0) FL, USA	Posted: 5/5/2024 11:40:30 AM EDT [#30] 17,500 mph for LEO.
	It's a strange, strange world we live in, Master Jack

DarkGray

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Posted: 5/5/2024 11:50:23 AM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Originally Posted By FALex:
Teacher, I have a question! This video shows us a hypersonic sled travelling at 6600mph. According to NASA, rockets needs to be rolling out at almost 25000mph to escape earth's atmosphere. This equates to roughly 4 miles per second.

Why can I not see the sled, even when they slow the frame rate down? It is moving 4x slower than the usual rockets we see, and we can see them for quite an extended period of time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yos4oz_d0c0

View Quote

You ever been to an airshow with the blue angels or thunderbirds?
It's the same reason you only see the solo jet for a moment when it does it's surprise pass, yet you can watch a faster moving airliner fly across the sky dispersing chem trails for hundreds of miles.

Hesperus We will softly slip away. Joined Jan 2014 Posts 34527 EE 100% (6) ID, USA	Posted: 5/5/2024 2:31:32 PM EDT [#32] Kinda feels like they are tempting fate with this news segment. Boeing Starliner set for launch taking 2 astronauts into space https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lS-b5x2h1U I suppose we will all find out soon enough.
	It’s… probably not as bad as you think it is.

AmericanPeople Member Joined Dec 2012 Posts 59868 EE 0% (0) CO, USA	Posted: 5/5/2024 2:39:11 PM EDT [#33] Quote History Originally Posted By Hesperus: Kinda feels like they are tempting fate with this news segment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lS-b5x2h1U I suppose we will all find out soon enough. View Quote I spent a lot of time at the Fernbank observatory many years ago.

AmericanPeople Member Joined Dec 2012 Posts 59869 EE 0% (0) CO, USA	Posted: 5/5/2024 10:26:14 PM EDT [#34]

Merlin

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Posted: 5/6/2024 8:38:43 AM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Originally Posted By AmericanPeople:
May 04 15:24. Rollout day concludes

The joint ULA, Boeing and NASA team is wrapping up the planned activities for rollout day and the Atlas V rocket is being powered down for the night. The next event will be starting the launch countdown Monday morning.

https://img.24live.co/event/3520105635873268419/20240504212430_668430.jpeg

View Quote

Anyone know the launch pad number?

I'm not Retired, I'm a Professional Grandpa!

atavistic Joined Jun 2006 Posts 11420 EE 0% (0) SC, USA	Posted: 5/6/2024 8:51:10 AM EDT [#36] When is the memorial service?

RiverSwine45 Member Joined Nov 2008 Posts 3585 EE 0% (0) FL, USA	Posted: 5/6/2024 8:54:06 AM EDT [#37] Quote History Originally Posted By Merlin: Anyone know the launch pad number? View Quote SLC-41

Merlin Member Joined Feb 2001 Posts 40417 EE 100% (4) TN, USA	Posted: 5/6/2024 8:59:46 AM EDT [#38] Quote History Originally Posted By RiverSwine45: SLC-41 View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quote History Originally Posted By RiverSwine45: Originally Posted By Merlin: Anyone know the launch pad number? SLC-41 Thanks! Off to GE.
	I'm not Retired, I'm a Professional Grandpa!

Utahshooting Joined Aug 2020 Posts 2778 EE 100% (4) UT, USA	Posted: 5/6/2024 1:10:13 PM EDT [Last Edit: Utahshooting] [#39] Did it launch? ETA- Looks like it doesn't light off till 10:30 EDT

Chokey

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Posted: 5/6/2024 1:57:27 PM EDT

[#40]

Here's my deep dive into why Starliner is seven years late.https://t.co/W9EMS73Zhf
Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) May 6, 2024

https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/05/the-surprise-is-not-that-boeing-lost-commercial-crew-but-that-it-finished-at-all/

Although Boeing got $4.2 billion to develop an astronaut capsule and SpaceX only got $2.6 billion, SpaceX finished 4 years sooner.

Note, the crew capsule design of Dragon 2 has almost nothing in common with Dragon 1.

Too many non-technical managers at Boeing. https://t.co/bTXWAfxfrh
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) May 6, 2024

Chokey Member Joined Oct 2001 Posts 94409 EE 0% (0) OH, USA	Posted: 5/6/2024 6:30:12 PM EDT [#41] NASA’s Boeing Starliner Crew Flight Test Launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb3qcR2tUQs

Chokey Member Joined Oct 2001 Posts 94410 EE 0% (0) OH, USA	Posted: 5/6/2024 6:31:14 PM EDT [#42] ULA Atlas V Launches Starliner Crew Flight Test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI1u80rw5LY

Cpt_Kirks pull my finger Joined Oct 2004 Posts 54426 EE 100% (1) AL, USA	Posted: 5/6/2024 6:38:30 PM EDT [#43] Didn't it come out over the weekend that the last orbital flight of the Starliner nearly burnt up during re-entry? The heat shield pretty much came apart.
	"Everything woke turns to shit" - Donald J. Trump FUCK JOE BIDEN!

California_Kid Something something of the something Joined Jan 2001 Posts 81489 EE 0% (0) CA, USA	Posted: 5/6/2024 6:39:33 PM EDT [#44] Butch Wilmore's first name is appropriate.
	Everywhere we go, we are surrounded by people who stumble through life dependent upon the vigilance and/or kindness of others. - Zardoz

Combat_Leader Joined Dec 2006 Posts 1207 EE 100% (1) WA, USA	Posted: 5/6/2024 6:42:15 PM EDT [#45] Quote History Originally Posted By Cpt_Kirks: Didn't it come out over the weekend that the last orbital flight of the Starliner nearly burnt up during re-entry? The heat shield pretty much came apart. View Quote That is Orion, the nasa capsule for the Artemis program.

Chokey Member Joined Oct 2001 Posts 94412 EE 0% (0) OH, USA	Posted: 5/6/2024 6:42:22 PM EDT [#46] Quote History Originally Posted By Cpt_Kirks: Didn't it come out over the weekend that the last orbital flight of the Starliner nearly burnt up during re-entry? The heat shield pretty much came apart. View Quote you could scroll up to find out.

AmericanPeople Member Joined Dec 2012 Posts 59873 EE 0% (0) CO, USA	Posted: 5/6/2024 7:04:52 PM EDT [#47] Quote History Originally Posted By Utahshooting: Did it launch? ETA- Looks like it doesn't light off till 10:30 EDT View Quote See page 1, post 1

AmericanPeople Member Joined Dec 2012 Posts 59874 EE 0% (0) CO, USA	Posted: 5/6/2024 7:05:15 PM EDT [#48] Quote History Originally Posted By Cpt_Kirks: Didn't it come out over the weekend that the last orbital flight of the Starliner nearly burnt up during re-entry? The heat shield pretty much came apart. View Quote See post 15 above.

Hesperus We will softly slip away. Joined Jan 2014 Posts 34557 EE 100% (6) ID, USA	Posted: 5/6/2024 7:40:06 PM EDT [#49] Looks like the crew is about to board. Feeling a bit more serious...
	It’s… probably not as bad as you think it is.

TLWrench

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Posted: 5/6/2024 7:58:49 PM EDT

[Last Edit: TLWrench] [#50]

Here's the NASA-TV stream on YouTube. They have viewers' comments along the side for the livestream which might be even more entertaining than the launch attempt itself. I don't know how long NASA will allow the unwashed masses to do running commentary during their launch livestreams, might as well enjoy it while we can...

NASA’s Boeing Starliner Crew Flight Test Launch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb3qcR2tUQs

Boeing, NASA target first crewed flight of Starliner. 5 June. 10:52 AM EDT (Page 4 of 9)

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