The Vette thread brought this idea back to me, it occurred to me when I was looking at some Bronco pricing when they came out.   I should note, I'm not in the market right now, I drive my cars until the wheels fall off, and I've still got probably another 100k miles before I have to get rid of my '13 MDX. '06 Pilot before that, '96 volvo 960 wagon before that.  

But, I don't like the current government mandated bloat items, I'm not sold on direct injected engines, I don't want electronic shocks or a TV in my dashboard; I could live with all of that I suppose, but pricing has gotten insane. Let's look at the new versions of what I've owned, so '25 MDX, Pilot, and V60 - prices range from $39,900 to $74,695 averaging at $57,385. These are nice cars, but not spectacularly luxurious or boasting crazy performance.


So riddle me this. For the same money, why not buy a classic? Or a middle of the road older something and just parts swap/restore it for ages? 60's Mustangs, Fairlanes, Galaxies, and inferior GM and Chevy products can be had for <20k in good shape, and 40k buys a lot of crate engines and restoration.  On a slightly more practical note, that same 40k would keep an early 90s Bronco on the road for a lot of years I'd think.

I've never bought a cool old car because they've never made good financial sense as a daily driver, but they're not being inflated at the same rates as new production cars... so...

Am I out of my mind?

All depends on you.  Your commute, how much you drive/travel, etc.

If my commute wasn't as long as it is I'd have a very different DD.

One issue is that older (like 1970's and older) vehicle engines run shitty on ethanol gas. So unless you put an newer crate engine it'll run like shit, not want to stop running half the time, get shitty gas mileage and the ethanol may even ruin what's left of the fuel system components.

Other than that, I love older classic vehicles for other reasons.

I have a hour and ten minute travel to and from. I just keep the 2014 Corolla running with 200000 miles right now. Just can’t justify spending that kind of money to put a bunch of miles on and have another payment.

I don't think a classic is smart because of the attention you'll eventually get tired of everyday.
I do agree something older and rebuilt or ls swapped is looking better to me.

The cons I see are not getting the real value from your insurance if you have an accident.
Trying to find something rust free means going to Arizona or something.

I've got a prius I plan to take to 300k.


Car prices are retarded, and the prius does everything I need.

Even big enough to sleep in if you fold the rear seats down. That and the hybrid running the AC off the battery and cycling the engine automatically when needed.

Very useful for when Bidenflation makes rent unaffordable. I'll get to be one of those high class homeless, thumbing my nose at the rabble in tents.

If you're looking at classics keep in mind the ride quality and braking isn't the same as a modern vehicle.  Fuel milage isn't good either.  The only way to overcome that is with a modern driveline and chassis and those aren't cheap.

If the old ride doesn't bother you, try to find someone selling theirs already done good enough for you, you will save money in the long run even if you have to fix some things.

I've had customers put a brand new from Mercedes and BMW engines in their 2000s era Euros because they loved the car and couldn't replace it with something newer for anywhere close to the cost.  I don't know that I would personally drop $10K on a new motor in an old Benz but I understood their point.

Older vehicles are best owned by people who know their way around cars, as they tend to need things, and it adds up quick if you have to pay someone else to do those things.

Beyond that, there is the question of whether or not you wish to spend your time doing those things.

Agree 100% on the unappealing bloat and odd styling that seems to be the norm on new vehicles.

Having restored and daily driven a 66 Mustang... Nothing about them is even as remotely comfortable as your MDX.

Overall vehicle quality is SO much better modern vehicles than the classics.

If you're  going to spend money keeping a vehicles running, just spend it on your current vehicle.

One of my best friends has a Honda Civic he used only for commuting to work for thirty years. It had 450,000 miles on it when the odometer went out (never fixed it).  He drove it for six or seven years after that so he estimates the mileage is actually over 600,000.  He just did regular maintenance on it. All of us who know him are in awe of that car.

That is my plan.  1998 Dodge Quadcab bought new and a 2004 Lariat F150 I inherited from my deceased son.  I've been disabled since 2018.  Dodge has 145k and the F150 just clicked 100k last week.  I now drive less than 4k miles each year split evenly between the 2.  At 63 and in pretty bad shape they should easily last me until I die and both are still amazingly clean trucks for their age.  My wife drives a 2018 Escape that was her company car and bought it for pennies from the leasing company recently.  She now gets a big car allowance instead of having a leased vehicle and she's putting that back to put down on her next new vehicle and will buy something when this 150k mile Escape bites the bullet.  I have been amazed the Escape has never had a single issue all these years except for going in to take care of some recall fixes.

This is certainly a good point. I took the Pilot to 220k and was about to do a bunch of work on it. I basically sold a stack of parts that came with a free car. The wiring had started to go funky, and I didn't want to fool with that, but the next guy did - it's over 300k on the original engine and trans and still driving around town. But the J35/J37 is ubiquitous enough and I know my way around the engine and platform after working on them for 16 years.

I would 'downgrade' back to an older Pilot if I go that route though, the low tension rings on the MDX are an issue for oil consumption, as is its shitty mileage on premium gas.

I wouldn't daily drive an older (pre 2000) vehicle. Modern safety features are too important.

is it possible yes. but a few factors to consider.
safety
newer cars are safer.
I have an old 65 convertible I like to drive in on nice weekends. but there are pictures of that same body being t-boned or grazed by newer cars where it walked into the driver compartment and hurt the driver pretty badly. those are not about how well you drive, but how poorly those people that drive around you.
the more of those I see, the less I want to drive it cross country like I originally intended. I mostly tool around town within 5 miles or so.

cost to maintain
if you can wrench yourself then this isn't as big a deal.
but if you need someone to wrench on your cars, then this becomes a problem.
parts and knowledge
as the world moves on, parts do become an issue.
especially for less popular models of old cars.
critical parts become unobtainium due to changes in the world.
tires are the first thing that are an issue. 14 and 15 inch wheels were the norm then. it is hard to find 15 and 14 inch tires now that are appropriate sized for older cars.
knowledge becomes an issue
pre 74 mopars have left handed lugs on the drivers side.
when was the last time you saw that?
tuning a carb?

you can upgrade all these things to modern equivelants but that just adds to the original bottom line cost.
I did a lot of modernization on the cheap
efi, 4 wheel disc brakes, a/c, radio etc..
efi alone now would run 2k on the cheap end, 4k on the mid and high end forget about it.
that isn't even bucking for more power, just better drivability and not having to rebuild a carb periodically due to ethanol.
which brings up basically resto mods.
but at that point you are paying quite a bit.
my car is a 15k car on a good day.
I could drop a modern drive train in it, from say a charger.
it would be about 14k when done for just the parts.
doesn't count cutting and welding, or routing the wiring etc..
but it would run like a modern car. without all the other stuff.

finally I would say comfort and ride.
sorry to say, rack and pinion is better steering than a gear box.
seats are more comfortable now than in the past.
ride is better now than before too.
while I enjoy driving my old car, and I drove one as a daily for many years, it isn't as nice as a newer car.
not as comfortable, not as quick to stop.

I am with you, I don't need all the bells and whistles.
I have contemplated going to find an old crown vic, 2008 or so and fixing that up to drive around instead.
or an old m-body chrysler.

I guess you also have to consider reliablity.
if it breaks down, then what? our neighbors drive older cars, but always have a spare in case.
they keep an old avalon around if they need a car because one of their newer ones, breaks down.

My opinion.... the best mix of technology, reliability, and durability was for vehicles built between 2005 and 2015. Buy one (or a few) in that time frame and keep them for as long as possible.

Accountant

My wife has a '16 MDX... And we've had zero oil consumption, and it most assuredly does not require premium.  Ymmv

I've gone back and forth from a new vehicle to old a couple times.  Although not as old as you are talking.  

I'm a truck guy so IMO the sweet spot is the early/mid 00's GM trucks.  They have their issues but parts are readily available and should be for quite some time.  They also have most of the comforts and features that make driving pleasurable and are reasonably safe.  

Hard to find good condition ones and when you do they tend to be quite a bit of money.

My newest purchase is a 13 Camry with 195k, just did the vvt-I intake cam sprocket and chain guides. It needs a torque converter also but will do that later.

My other is 02 accord with 216k and 06 Silverado 1500 with 126k.

Unless I come into a pile of money like a scratch off hit, I will not be buying anything new.

I will agree with the others on owning older vehicles, you need to be mechanically inclined and know how to maintain them. I’m fortunate to have that and a shop.

That's pretty much my plan.

I've got a pile of parts to start rebuilding my '97 ECSB Sierra. Retro-fitting LS/LT ecm, electronics ,and ignition components to the original L31 engine, along with some other drivetrain work. Gutting the interior to completely rebuild it. Haven't decided if I'm going to keep the ABS yet, but the airbags are definitely going away.

While that's ongoing, my other two DD's are a '98 Dodge Ram RCLB and an '07 JK Wrangler. Pretty much the last vehicles I will own, because I absolutely loathe all the nanny crap and Vegas bright interiors.

Currently doing an LQ9/6L80 swap in a 2006 Nissan Exterra. best of both- fuck ton of parts, drivetrain wise, along with insane longevity of said.
Ancient ass jeeps because I might need something more reliable than a Nissan...

Thats about how I feel as well.  I'm kinda looking for something from that era now to use as a DD.

You're not wrong in a lot of respects, so long as you pick something with lots of aftermarket and OEM support, BUT, even that is changing. Son had an '04 Lincoln Town Car, which was Ford's ubiquitous Panther platform for his 1st project car (totaled by a young female driver who failed to yield ROW driving an Expedition) and I was very surprised that some of the more common electronics - driver's door module for example - were no longer available. That DDM controls your seats, power locks, power trunk release, anti-theft, remote mirrors, and probably something else I'm forgetting. Even basic Crown Vic Police Interceptors have a DDM. Right now, you can buy those DDMs in a junkyard for <$20 each and neckbeard them on eBay for $100 or more, but that supply will dry up. Ditto the not very high tech electronic climate control dash module. All that to say, we were starting to see parts availability issues with a 20 YO car that was VERY common, I suspect things could be a lot worse with a less common car.

Then there's safety. Vehicle safety, especially crash survivability, has made quantum leaps since the 1980's. I would not drive anything as a DD designed prior to 1990 simply because crash structure got so much better. Then there's things like ABS and vehicle stability controls, which you never realize are there until you REALLY need them. It's not your driving you should worry about, as my son found out, it's the other idiot. He was just motoring along in his lane, clear sunny day, 35 MPH, when this chick just decides to gun it from a parking lot through an opening in traffic and t-boned him. Another old friend was riding shotgun in a '73 Camaro in a slow cruise situation outside a car show, and was t-boned by some old lady who ran a red light. That was 1-2 years prior to side intrusion beams in the doors being mandated, and it messed him up for life. If that car had those beams, he likely would have walked with bruises and scratches. So you need modern safety.

I'm rebuilding our old 1982 Suburban to be a new family vehicle.  Our little family is about to grow to 5 within a week.

There are a lot of minor things to be fixed.  But some of them take forever.

I should do a build thread at some point.

I disagree with this.  I have a driveway/yard/garage full of old trucks and muscle cars.  The original motors are still running strong on the cheapest 87 octane, with 10% ethanol gas.  I rebuilt a 351C last year.  When you have them apart, its standard practice to put it hardened valve seats for the unleaded gas.  There are also aftermarket heads that come with valve seats.  But that stuff is not required.  I have a 1969 t-bird with the original 429 and cast iron heads.  It hasn't had the valve seats replaced and runs just fine on today's gas.  I have at least 3 old cars with 350 and larger engines that get over 17MPG around town, running on holley and edelbrock 4 barrel carbs and mechanical fuel pumps, and have no overdrive.  And I do not have any parts or seals magically going bad because the current boogieman ethanol gas.

There are some convenience issues having to do with the ethanol gas evaporating.  It evaporates faster than old gas.  So if you aren't driving the cars every day, the gas in the carb can evaporate out which means you have to crank it longer to get it to start.  If you care about that, it is easily solved with an electric fuel pump.

Since OP is talking about maintaining an older vehicle for a daily driver, I expect that swapping to an electric fuel pump or even an aftermarket EFI setup is not out of the question.


I will say that if you want to keep driving and maintain it cheap, then pick something thats still very popular.  You can buy body and interior parts for mustangs and square body trucks easily.  You cannot find those same body parts for 87% of the less popular old cars.  And pick a popular motor.  For ford, a windsor based motor (289, 302, 351w) are waaaaay better supported in the aftermarket than a cleaveland or anything else.  Hell, even the venerable chevy 350 is getting harder to find parts and tools for locally.  Not one store within 80 miles of me carried an oil pump primer for a chevy anymore.  That has to be mail ordered.  As the world went to LS swapping everything, stores stopped carrying parts and tools for small block chevies.

I am going with this plan.

The only issue you may run into is that if the components were not made in super high volume then getting spares could become an issue.

Agree that new vehicles are super-expensive and have a lot of features (like tracking/spying) that are unwanted.  An older vehicle, like 10-15 years old might make sense if you can DIY most or the repairs and maintenance.  Does OP have a lot of rust issues in his area?  There's also a lot of stuff that just wears out, like all the rubber hoses, belts, boots, etc.

I don't want a laptop on the dash either.
New cars can be had for about 40k or less that are fun to drive.
The new Ecoboost is quicker than older (late 80's /90's) Mustang 5.0
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I've been considering an older sportscar to fix up and maintain, as part of weighing whether I want to buy a new truck or not, but it wouldn't be my primary vehicle. Another possibility could be a not-so-old but very reliable toyota or honda, but what fun would that be.

I live by myself semi-rural, so need a reliable vehicle. I figure I could get there with a 2nd vehicle, but I have lots of projects on my list already, so...

I've been influenced lately by a few guys I bike with that are getting new cars, one just got a Porsche and another is talking like he'll get one, too. THen you guys start throwing out Corvette threads.

I think you won't be happy but I would say something from 2000-2010. Newish. Some electronics but not alot. Somewhat easy to fix. Reliable.

You won't be happy because it won't have the little things such as bluetooth or memory seats etc.

I drive a 2006 Toyota Tundra with 94xxx miles.

Was maintained and driven very little when I bought it 4 years ago with 44k on the clock. It isn't cheap to fix because good mechanics are hard to find and they are not cheap. It cost about $200 a month yearly to keep it maintained.

This but i would stretch it to '96-~2015ish depending on make/model/mileage. Plenty of simple EFI cars with decent safety and not a lot of widgets to balance simplicity, safety, and reliability.

Things rust to easily where I live. The people I know that hold on to vehicles for a long time usually have their nice vehicles and their winter beaters. The winter beaters usually get replaced after 4 or 5 years.

I think the mid 2000s are the sweet spot for good vehicles. Still simple engine and drivetrain wise, good economy and power, and pretty safe.

Miata's are fantastic little cars too.

I agree most of with this.  There's some simple things you can do to help update them.  In my old cars, the first thing I do is swap them over to modern 3pt seat belts.  And if they aren't equipped with it, power disc brakes.  Old cars do not protect you nearly as good as modern ones.  

And aftermarket EFI/computer systems are supporting traction control now.  You can retrofit your car with wheel speed sensors and the computer will give you some level of traction control.

Regarding the ABS, there are some old cars with it.  My 1969 t-bird, IIRC, was the first car to come with ABS from the factory.  So they were at least an available option on some cars as far back as that.

That's correct, in 2014 they went from a 3.7L at 300 HP to a 3.5L Direct Injected engine at 290 HP.  Direct injection is more efficient, so it's makes almost the same power from a smaller displacement and you get better mileage than I do, but direct injection has its own issues. That was something I considered when I bought mine.

I also chose the 'base' package to avoid electronic shocks, which I was very thankful for when I replaced those last week

I did that a couple years back; bought a 10 year old Subaru Outback that didn't have the headgasket issues and was relatively a tank. After two years I started spending more on it for repairs than a newer financed car would have cost annually. Plus rust started to really cause issues.

I think the sweet spot for used cars is something like 5-7 years old now, especially if you're in areas with snow. 2015 cars are hitting 10 years old now. No thanks.

No.  I call it the Cubanization of American cars.  Various mandates, taxes, and declining real wages cause the consumer average fleet age to increase somewhat like the extreme situation in Cuba.  You'll have old cars and be happy.

I work from home and have for ~20 years now, but my "daily driver" is 12 years old.  I've never in my life purchased a new car, nor do I think I would, despite being able to do so.  Maybe in 30 years when I retire.

My wife's car is also about 12 years old.  We bought both with around 100K miles on them, and we drive them until major things fail on them that become more costly to repair than the value.  That typically happens around 220K-240K miles.  We maintain them well, and pick them well.  One factor that has rarely done me wrong is that if the vehicle's interior looks really nice after 100K miles (no tears in seats, everything works, etc), 99.9% chance that they also took care of the rest of the car pretty well.

We've generally stuck with Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes - and even the latter two have worked out.  Keeping them running is very inexpensive, especially compared to a newer car, or car with monthly payments.  More-so if you do your own minor work like oil changes, brakes, etc.

My wife has a 3.7vtec MDX.  When she got it, I looked them up.  The oil consumption was apparently only an issue for some of the production years.  I seem to remember it being honda changing piston ring types that was the difference.  Ours is not within that year range, and does not burn oil.

Covid supply chain issues really fucked the used car market too. ~$5k cars are now ~$10k unless you get really lucky. The inflation of the last couple years obviously didn't help there either.

It's fun to romanticize about, but it makes no sense in practice.

Most vehicles built before 1990 had 5 digit odometers for a reason. Breaking 100k was a big deal, and just about everything was done by then. Today, people will spend $20k on a 100k mile vehicle and expect it to run to 250k+.

Safety is also a huge deal. Crash structures have improved tremendously in the last 25 years or so, and if you go too far back into the 20th century, you lose really fundamental things like head rests.

Rust is a problem for about half of the country.

Parts are also an issue. The older a vehicle is, the harder it is to find things, especially model specific parts like glass that isn't shared across a whole family.

My local car dealer called me up the other day, asked how my pickup (they sold me) was running...asked if I had seen the new truck lineup

I laughed and told him the only person I intended to be talking to was a parts department when it comes time to replace the engine

Back when I was really poor, I got out of the cycle of being in debt over new or leased vehicles.  I bought a truck with capabilities I needed, put in a new engine, fixed all the things, and used it for over a decade.  Only a transmission shop ever touched this truck when the guts stripped the lugs out of the TH400.  

You have to be handy.  

You'll have better luck restomodding a truck.

I don't think there's a LMC catalog for Fairlanes

I wish my wife liked the Mazda, I would buy her one today.

To be honest, if you got out and grab a 2012 pathfinder V8 4WD, 2014 X-Terra, FJ, or 4 Runner or GX with less than 100K on it-
You probably with regular maintenance do just fine for another decade/100K or more.

That’s kind of a sweet spot all the other crap.

But classic?
For a nice day to work or a weekend drive?
Sure.
For your daily?
God no.
I spent a dozen years with four vintage cars and am down to two.  For space, time, etc. Reasons.

Even if you do something like update the dizzy to HEI/pertronix inners, you still have a carb.  Let’s say you address that and update to FI.  

Your seat, gauges, safety, handling, everything are using 50 year old stuff. Or rebuilds or reproductions.  It’s just a huge pain in the ass.  Let alone handling, brakes, etc.

Something is always needing to be replaced, breaking down, etc.

sounds more like a tuning issue. I have a boat with an older carb 350 and it runs fine. Had a sandrail with a built vw 2275 also no issues.

Know others with older engines and don’t have any problems. Now the fuel system yes it can cause quicker wear but just change fuel lines or go to hard lines as much as you can which is better anyways.

As for older cars I have an 04 2500hd gasser. Has 264k and runs smooth still loooks good. I have had to do typical wear and tear items radiator,couple sensors,exhaust manifold and new ac. All items I did myself. Now I don’t drive it as much but had to use as primary for last three years.

Recently bought Mitsubishi Lancer it’s a 2002 from my son it has 225k now but he replaced a lot of stuff he’s the type who fixes any lol thing so suspension water pump timing belt struts ac have all been replaced. I use it as a commuter for Phx to so cal twice a month. 2800 for it and I’ll
Just put miles on that 32-35 mpg

Trucks, especially older ones, have overbuilt frames.  That helps a bit when considering frames rusting out up north.
And trucks can be much simpler.  Less doors, no headliner, basic, stripped down interior.  There is literally less parts in them to wear out.

The big cons would be worse fuel economy and less passenger room as compared to a car.

You can buy a nice older classic with less than 100,000 mi that just needs some simple mechanical work (like power steering pump, radiator, window and door rubber seal, common on some older cars that have been in storage) for less than $25000 if you buy the version that is not a "muscle" car.  Example, Skylark 2 dr sport coupe with same engine as GS will be much cheaper.

The downside is if you live in an area that gets ice or snow.  Very poor traction (slip differential) and lots of rust if you drive over an area that is salted.  
You need to get a car made at least in the late 1980's to get the sheet metal that is rust resistant, to use on a daily basis in an area with ice or snow, and front wheel drive or limited slip rear differential.