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Posted: 4/20/2024 3:17:02 PM EDT
Are they really necessary anymore?
I've been kicking around the idea of buying another one, even though I have an Avatar diagonal 2X12 and a Bogner 2X12. I used to have a full stack back in the day, but honestly never really needed that much volume. All I would ever really need is to keep up with a drum kit, and I'm never going to need to worry about playing big venues. Maybe it is a consideration for outdoor gigs? What do you think? |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 3:28:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BWood]
[#1]
Nope.
I still have mine though. Was just in nashville this past week. Not an amp in sight. Modelers direct into pa for every rig i saw. I have played gigs with a Line 6 HX Stomp. I much prefer a 4x12 but soundmen all prefer a modeler. I was going to go the mini head small rig route. Even those are disappearing  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 3:45:12 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BWood: I was going to go the mini head small rig route. Even those are disappearing The only use case I could think of is playing somewhere with a very bad house system. Or you are used to using your rig as a monitor. Even then, it would have to be a pretty big stage for a 2x not to be enough reinforcement for you. Film cameras are dead. I think walls of 4 bys are about there too, even if you have a crew. |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 3:58:52 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 4/20/2024 4:32:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Johnnymenudo]
[#4]
I have not played out in years and do not go to shows often anymore, but from what I can see is a huge shift towards modeling. I think it is just a change in the live music business, and the reality is, they sound quite good and the audience likely does not know the difference. I still like the idea of high volume tube amps pushing air and interacting with the guitar, but it is dying out to some extent. A lof of the big bands still use multiple heads and cabinets since they have the budget and the crew, but oftentimes they are just for staging. I saw Bad Religion a couple of years back and really liked the sound the guy was getting through his Marshalls and multiple cabinet set up, but there was not a microphone on the cabinet. He was using a Kemper.
You will find more vintage Marshall cabinets owned by 50-70 year old guitar players who never play anywhere their basement, than you ever will on stage. ETA to add - I am at that guy. I have 3 half stacks in a wet, dry, wet rig. Truth is, I usually just plug straight into one head. |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 5:30:43 PM EDT
[#5]
I believe every real guitarist should play through at least a half stack once in their life just to experience it.
If I was gigging still though, I would be using a 2x12 combo with a stand to angle it up at me. Simply for the ease of loading in. |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 5:48:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Interesting. Thanks for the replies.
What about outdoors? Festivals, parties and such where you wouldn't expect to find a PA ? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/20/2024 5:49:34 PM EDT
[#7]
I still play through mine.
I’ve got multiple tube heads and various cabinets. Most underground punk and hardcore shows still use them because the house PAs stink. |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 6:30:09 PM EDT
[#8]
I like my Marshall half stack and my Fender Twin but so much more now days I use my Marshall DSL5 or Fender Super Champ XD. I am the epitome of the basement player so I don’t really need the volume. Even if I was performing I think I would just mic one of my practice amps. I watched an interview with Kirk Hammett and he said he has gone all fractal now. Said he did it mainly for consistency since the biased changes on amps at each venue.
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UT, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 12:03:34 AM EDT
[#9]
I don't believe anyone ever NEEDED a 4x12 but if I had the money to waste I would have two full stacks.
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USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 12:17:24 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Johnnymenudo: I saw Bad Religion a couple of years back and really liked the sound the guy was getting through his Marshalls and multiple cabinet set up, but there was not a microphone on the cabinet. He was using a Kemper. Ha! I was just about to post Brian Baker’s rig rundown when I saw your post.  Rig Rundown - Bad Religion |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 12:38:20 AM EDT
[#11]
and then...
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USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 1:33:31 AM EDT
[#12]
1x12s and 2x12s here, although for practice, I go almost exclusively with modelers.
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NY, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:20:25 AM EDT
[#13]
I regret my 4x10 and even my 2x12.1x10 and even 2x10 are, IMO, much more useful.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 9:27:29 AM EDT
[#14]
My son plays a lot of what we used to call underground shows where the PAs are too crappy to rely on for good tone so they need at least 2x12's for guitars, and his 1x15 bass combo does just fine. I've gotten him to where he's just using his bass combo for stage monitoring and his MG30 for everything going to the front. I haven't seen a 4x12 at a show in about 2 years, WackenFest Texas Finals iirc. They were getting great mic'd sound from them but you also had people at the same show using strictly digital. Nili Brosh was sitting in with a band at that show and she was using just a Headrush Pedalboard and you couldn't tell the difference. I haven't seen much Headrush promo from her lately and she's been playing Mesa amps live with 2x12s.
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Posted: 4/21/2024 9:39:13 AM EDT
[#15]
Ive been running combos for years. Dr. z 1x12.
But recently I switched to a solid state head with a little 2x12 cab for the weight aspect. Then added another 2x12 to it. So Ive ended up going back in time and running a stereo rig. One side a 4x12, the other side a combo amp. Mic'd up with two Sennheiser 906's I take up a little more real estate but Im in a gigging jam band, so thank goodness that scene still supports real amps, guitars and good ole improvisation. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 9:56:27 AM EDT
[#16]
I go see a lot of cover bands, and I am seeing almost exclusivly Line6 Helix, and Headrush Prime. I think the big stacks are going by way of the floor monitors. When these bands have to unload, carry in, setup, play, tear dowm, carry out, and load a trailer, they start to see the positive side to less is more. Hell I even sold my Hotrod Deluxe and bought a Positive Grid Spark40. I converted it over to battery power, and I can grab the bag, and a guitar and go practice anywhere I want in seconds.
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Posted: 4/21/2024 10:00:18 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Goostoff: I go see a lot of cover bands, and I am seeing almost exclusivly Line6 Helix, and Headrush Prime. I think the big stacks are going by way of the floor monitors. When these bands have to unload, carry in, setup, play, tear dowm, carry out, and load a trailer, they start to see the positive side to less is more. Hell I even sold my Hotrod Deluxe and bought a Positive Grid Spark40. I converted it over to battery power, and I can grab the bag, and a guitar and go practice anywhere I want in seconds. It just makes good sense. If I were gigging today I surly wouldn't be using my half stack. Now 25 years ago? No way. The technology just wasn't there for the sound in my opinion. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:13:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BWood: Nope. I still have mine though. Was just in nashville this past week. Not an amp in sight. Modelers direct into pa for every rig i saw. I have played gigs with a Line 6 HX Stomp. I much prefer a 4x12 but soundmen all prefer a modeler. I was going to go the mini head small rig route. Even those are disappearing https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56774/IMG_0996_jpeg-3193366.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56774/IMG_0997_jpeg-3193367.JPG I work in downtown Nashville and often see guys pulling Boss Katanas on luggage dolly carts. Most likely they're going into front of house. Not sure if they can use the amp as a monitor when going FoH. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:35:14 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kel: Ha! I was just about to post Brian Baker’s rig rundown when I saw your post.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk7iYQYNmqo Skip to 27:30 about those Kempers.Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kel: Originally Posted By Johnnymenudo: I saw Bad Religion a couple of years back and really liked the sound the guy was getting through his Marshalls and multiple cabinet set up, but there was not a microphone on the cabinet. He was using a Kemper. Ha! I was just about to post Brian Baker’s rig rundown when I saw your post. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk7iYQYNmqo Skip to 27:30 about those Kempers.I saw them last Sunday. Fantastic guitar tone! |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 9:05:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Last week when my buddy and I did the "Grail Tone" comparison, the sound in the room through a 4x12 was inimitable. You just can't fucking fake air moving in a room.
The difference between an emulator and the real thing to anyone who has played both is palpable. But maybe not worth the trouble for the unwashed masses. For most live shows? Just use the cabinet emulation direct to the PA. For recording? Hell fucking yeah. The difference is night and day. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 10:53:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RickFinsta: Last week when my buddy and I did the "Grail Tone" comparison, the sound in the room through a 4x12 was inimitable. You just can't fucking fake air moving in a room. The difference between an emulator and the real thing to anyone who has played both is palpable. But maybe not worth the trouble for the unwashed masses. For most live shows? Just use the cabinet emulation direct to the PA. For recording? Hell fucking yeah. The difference is night and day. While I am not challenging this at all as I have zero recording experience, didn’t allot of guys like Jimmy Page and Eric Clapton record often with 20 or 30 watt VOX and Supro’s? I know Eric Clapton would ofter mic a small amp for performance as well. |
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Posted: 4/22/2024 12:37:51 AM EDT
[#22]
I love 4x12 cabs.
I have 4 4x12 cabs, two Mesa rectifier traditional (one straight, one angled), one Marshall 1960A, and a VHT FB. I have other 2x12 and 1x12 etc cabs, but while more convenient for hauling around, nothing beats plugging a 100 watt head into a 4x12 cab (or WDW into several). My Soldano SLO 100 is my favorite. But my Axe-FX and Line 6 modelers are pretty killer too. |
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Posted: 4/22/2024 11:11:19 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DM1975: While I am not challenging this at all as I have zero recording experience, didn’t allot of guys like Jimmy Page and Eric Clapton record often with 20 or 30 watt VOX and Supro’s? I know Eric Clapton would ofter mic a small amp for performance as well. I'm not trying to say that when a producer wants an open back combo sound that they should use a 4x12, I'm saying that even the best impulse response emulation is not going to sound like the real thing on a recording. They are crazy close but if you have the ability absolutely use the real thing. There is also something about the interaction between a live amp and a guitar that is lost using sims, and I've been using sims since the early days for rehearsals and as a backup for live performances so I'm a big cheerleader for them in general. |
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Posted: 4/22/2024 11:34:52 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RickFinsta: I'm not trying to say that when a producer wants an open back combo sound that they should use a 4x12, I'm saying that even the best impulse response emulation is not going to sound like the real thing on a recording. They are crazy close but if you have the ability absolutely use the real thing. There is also something about the interaction between a live amp and a guitar that is lost using sims, and I've been using sims since the early days for rehearsals and as a backup for live performances so I'm a big cheerleader for them in general. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RickFinsta: Originally Posted By DM1975: While I am not challenging this at all as I have zero recording experience, didn’t allot of guys like Jimmy Page and Eric Clapton record often with 20 or 30 watt VOX and Supro’s? I know Eric Clapton would ofter mic a small amp for performance as well. I'm not trying to say that when a producer wants an open back combo sound that they should use a 4x12, I'm saying that even the best impulse response emulation is not going to sound like the real thing on a recording. They are crazy close but if you have the ability absolutely use the real thing. There is also something about the interaction between a live amp and a guitar that is lost using sims, and I've been using sims since the early days for rehearsals and as a backup for live performances so I'm a big cheerleader for them in general. Cool. Thanks for explaining that. Just playing for myself I never really turn up my amps much. In fact my Twin is so loud that I rarely ever use it. Lots of things about amps and recording that I just have no clue on. My friends that perform have all gone to using small amps or just using the venues PA systems. I do like it when my half stack is turned up and you can feel the air moving though. |
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Posted: 4/22/2024 1:46:00 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DM1975: Cool. Thanks for explaining that. Just playing for myself I never really turn up my amps much. In fact my Twin is so loud that I rarely ever use it. Lots of things about amps and recording that I just have no clue on. My friends that perform have all gone to using small amps or just using the venues PA systems. I do like it when my half stack is turned up and you can feel the air moving though. Wump!  |
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Posted: 4/22/2024 10:16:16 PM EDT
[#26]
I see. I was thinking this would be a " nah, Mike. You don't need one of those " kind of threads. Lol.
Maybe I'll score an inexpensive Carvin cab, refinish it and load it with some kickass speakers as a project. |
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Posted: 4/23/2024 5:32:37 AM EDT
[#27]
I like carvin
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Posted: 4/23/2024 12:20:51 PM EDT
[#28]
I don't have any experience with them, but it seems Carvin makes good stuff!
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Posted: 4/23/2024 1:24:06 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SixSquared: I don't have any experience with them, but it seems Carvin makes good stuff! USED to make good stuff. They closed in early 2018. A victim of their own success. Selling factory direct kept the prices competitive, But really shot them in the foot in terms of exposure. |
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Posted: 4/23/2024 1:33:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By high_order1: and then... https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8409fcff23523f919cbc784e505b9dda-lq https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnQqRGmXMAAuZV8?format=jpg&name=large That is just wrong  .
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UT, USA
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Posted: 4/23/2024 3:08:30 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By just-mike: I see. I was thinking this would be a " nah, Mike. You don't need one of those " kind of threads. Lol. Maybe I'll score an inexpensive Carvin cab, refinish it and load it with some kickass speakers as a project. Carvin makes good shit, I have a 2x12 cabinet that's beat to hell but has some great Carvin speakers in that I will throw in something else one day. I think the reason they don't hold value was their marketing approach. The only way to experience Carvin was to buy one or try a friends. |
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Posted: 4/23/2024 4:48:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By callmestick: Carvin makes good shit, I have a 2x12 cabinet that's beat to hell but has some great Carvin speakers in that I will throw in something else one day. I think the reason they don't hold value was their marketing approach. The only way to experience Carvin was to buy one or try a friends. There was some huge names that used their guitars, and their amps. Carvin PA amps pushed a lot of other people's sound reinforcement, too; I think that's where I first noticed them cutting into Peavey's market share. I appreciated their tone, but I also liked mesa. But I grew up in a world of marshall or die, unless you liked the brit-ish, then it was Vox, or if you were slow hand / everyone else, it was Fender/Peavey. Funny. I can't even remember much of the B team lineup. Now, there's a fuckton of boutique stuff. You can even build your own. Doesn't matter, the modelers stole the heart (but not the soul) of all those sounds to put them in a single knob. Sure some of you can empathize being a kid and chasing tone with some Christmas DOD pedals and a half stack and stillll... not quite there. Now with Kemper, it's like making toast. I gave into the dark side awhile back. I have a Vox battery powered modeler. I used it to go basically busk a couple of times. Kinda made me happy, I wasn't sore and tired from moving shit, but I was also kind of sad; whole generation of people will never know what it's like to hit a chord and knock all the dust out of everything. Digging through teetering piles of amps and beat to shit cabinets at some moldy music store looking for greenbacks. (shrugs) |
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Posted: 4/23/2024 5:09:40 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By high_order1: I think I still have a couple of things. There was some huge names that used their guitars, and their amps. Carvin PA amps pushed a lot of other people's sound reinforcement, too; I think that's where I first noticed them cutting into Peavey's market share. I appreciated their tone, but I also liked mesa. But I grew up in a world of marshall or die, unless you liked the brit-ish, then it was Vox, or if you were slow hand / everyone else, it was Fender/Peavey. Funny. I can't even remember much of the B team lineup. Now, there's a fuckton of boutique stuff. You can even build your own. Doesn't matter, the modelers stole the heart (but not the soul) of all those sounds to put them in a single knob. Sure some of you can empathize being a kid and chasing tone with some Christmas DOD pedals and a half stack and stillll... not quite there. Now with Kemper, it's like making toast. I gave into the dark side awhile back. I have a Vox battery powered modeler. I used it to go basically busk a couple of times. Kinda made me happy, I wasn't sore and tired from moving shit, but I was also kind of sad; whole generation of people will never know what it's like to hit a chord and knock all the dust out of everything. Digging through teetering piles of amps and beat to shit cabinets at some moldy music store looking for greenbacks. (shrugs) Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By high_order1: Originally Posted By callmestick: Carvin makes good shit, I have a 2x12 cabinet that's beat to hell but has some great Carvin speakers in that I will throw in something else one day. I think the reason they don't hold value was their marketing approach. The only way to experience Carvin was to buy one or try a friends. There was some huge names that used their guitars, and their amps. Carvin PA amps pushed a lot of other people's sound reinforcement, too; I think that's where I first noticed them cutting into Peavey's market share. I appreciated their tone, but I also liked mesa. But I grew up in a world of marshall or die, unless you liked the brit-ish, then it was Vox, or if you were slow hand / everyone else, it was Fender/Peavey. Funny. I can't even remember much of the B team lineup. Now, there's a fuckton of boutique stuff. You can even build your own. Doesn't matter, the modelers stole the heart (but not the soul) of all those sounds to put them in a single knob. Sure some of you can empathize being a kid and chasing tone with some Christmas DOD pedals and a half stack and stillll... not quite there. Now with Kemper, it's like making toast. I gave into the dark side awhile back. I have a Vox battery powered modeler. I used it to go basically busk a couple of times. Kinda made me happy, I wasn't sore and tired from moving shit, but I was also kind of sad; whole generation of people will never know what it's like to hit a chord and knock all the dust out of everything. Digging through teetering piles of amps and beat to shit cabinets at some moldy music store looking for greenbacks. (shrugs) As far as Carvin guitars, that is now Kiesel as far as I can tell. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 1:33:23 AM EDT
[#34]
With the recent price drop on Marshall I want to get one of the TV cabinets.
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Posted: 4/25/2024 11:39:00 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DM1975: As far as Carvin guitars, that is now Kiesel as far as I can tell. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carvin_Corporation The guitar division separated into it's own company, renamed "Kiesel" after the founder. The pro audio division remained "Carvin", and went out of business. It looks like they reopened, but with a DRASTICALLY smaller product offering. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 11:54:37 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By just-mike: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carvin_Corporation The guitar division separated into it's own company, renamed "Kiesel" after the founder. The pro audio division remained "Carvin", and went out of business. It looks like they reopened, but with a DRASTICALLY smaller product offering. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By just-mike: Originally Posted By DM1975: As far as Carvin guitars, that is now Kiesel as far as I can tell. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carvin_Corporation The guitar division separated into it's own company, renamed "Kiesel" after the founder. The pro audio division remained "Carvin", and went out of business. It looks like they reopened, but with a DRASTICALLY smaller product offering. For a while it was Kiesel Carvin. It didn’t split till after Kiesel was long dead. Even then they still made Carvin named guitars as well as Kiesel for a while. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 12:24:45 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DM1975: For a while it was Kiesel Carvin. It didn’t split till after Kiesel was long dead. Even then they still made Carvin named guitars as well as Kiesel for a while. I've had a soft spot for them for a long time. I used to love getting their mail catalog and imagining what I would put together. My first Carvin was a hard tail Strat. I also picked up a thru neck 7 string. I still have them both. When they were having their "going out of business sale" I bought a 500w 2x10 bass rig. Not long ago, I added a used 15"cab to it. Got it for next to nothing. Shit's tight. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 12:27:49 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By just-mike: I've had a soft spot for them for a long time. I used to love getting their mail catalog and imagining what I would put together. My first Carvin was a hard tail Strat. I also picked up a thru neck 7 string. I still have them both. When they were having their "going out of business sale" I bought a 500w 2x10 bass rig. Not long ago, I added a used 15"cab to it. Got it for next to nothing. Shit's tight. I always wanted one of their guitars. Never had the chance to get one but I might look around or give a Kiesel a try. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 12:35:23 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LRShooter: With the recent price drop on Marshall I want to get one of the TV cabinets. I had to look it up. For some reason, I was imagining one of those big, heavy 1950's television cabinets with Celestion speakers in it. Lol. |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 11:32:51 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By callmestick: I don't believe anyone ever NEEDED a 4x12 but if I had the money to waste I would have two full stacks. Ever? Dimed 1959s through Greenbacks demanded it. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 1:09:34 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RickFinsta: Last week when my buddy and I did the "Grail Tone" comparison, the sound in the room through a 4x12 was inimitable. You just can't fucking fake air moving in a room. The difference between an emulator and the real thing to anyone who has played both is palpable. But maybe not worth the trouble for the unwashed masses. For most live shows? Just use the cabinet emulation direct to the PA. For recording? Hell fucking yeah. The difference is night and day. Uhh... Maybe not... A lot of the biggest Guitar "legends" use Fractal Audio modelers both for live gigs and recording. Steve Vai, John Mayer, Metallica, Neal Schon, Steve Stevens, Joe Satriani, etc, all use Fractal Audio both for touring and recording. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 3:48:47 PM EDT
[#42]
I sincerely hope I don't live long enough to witness a live concert that has to be interrupted while techs reboot the locked up guitar amps... maybe a big blue screen of death might be a bit metal, but my sentiment remains.
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:49:51 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thejokker: Uhh... Maybe not... A lot of the biggest Guitar "legends" use Fractal Audio modelers both for live gigs and recording. Steve Vai, John Mayer, Metallica, Neal Schon, Steve Stevens, Joe Satriani, etc, all use Fractal Audio both for touring and recording. Cool now ask them what they find more musically inspiring and I know what answer you'll get. Put any of those guys in a room with heads and cabs versus a room with an SKB pedalboard case and some kind of emulator sitting in it, and I know which room is gonna have better music coming out the other side. Again, I've been using modelers for decades; longer than any of those guys, and I'm a big proponent of their use for ease or economy. But you're retarded if you think there is no place for real amplifiers moving real air in modern music. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:50:46 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By high_order1: I sincerely hope I don't live long enough to witness a live concert that has to be interrupted while techs reboot the locked up guitar amps... maybe a big blue screen of death might be a bit metal, but my sentiment remains. LMAO there is a great video of The Warning where the BSOD/Windows crash sound comes through the PA! I will try to find it. |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:06:06 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RickFinsta: LMAO there is a great video of The Warning where the BSOD/Windows crash sound comes through the PA! I will try to find it. Lol |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:28:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By splitbolt: Lol Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By splitbolt: Originally Posted By RickFinsta: LMAO there is a great video of The Warning where the BSOD/Windows crash sound comes through the PA! I will try to find it. Lol I've heard similar since radio stations went to local computing for their program sources, DJ's a few times. Even heard a few click tracks. May have heard a few canned tracks; saw a hidden guitarist once lol Or... lol 'TO CONTINUE USING THIS PLUGIN, PLEASE SWIPE YOUR CREDIT CARD THROUGH YOUR WAH/POS TERMINAL'.... boop ding |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 11:46:50 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RickFinsta: Cool now ask them what they find more musically inspiring and I know what answer you'll get. Put any of those guys in a room with heads and cabs versus a room with an SKB pedalboard case and some kind of emulator sitting in it, and I know which room is gonna have better music coming out the other side. Again, I've been using modelers for decades; longer than any of those guys, and I'm a big proponent of their use for ease or economy. But you're retarded if you think there is no place for real amplifiers moving real air in modern music. Money talks; bullshit walks... I not referring to your opinion merely pointing out that these guys can choose anything they want to play through but when it comes to their livelihood they choose state of the art modeling and speakers. If it was only for performing than you might be correct but they use it to record as well. A tube amp only produces an amplified signal that is passed through to a cabinet. What you hear and feel is the result of the speaker. Send a modeled signal through a big enough cabinet and suitably amplified and you will hear and feel the sound as well. If you were in the same room as some of the greats playing through their modelling rigs you might change your mind... |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 10:47:25 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thejokker: Money talks; bullshit walks... I not referring to your opinion merely pointing out that these guys can choose anything they want to play through but when it comes to their livelihood they choose state of the art modeling and speakers. If it was only for performing than you might be correct but they use it to record as well. A tube amp only produces an amplified signal that is passed through to a cabinet. What you hear and feel is the result of the speaker. Send a modeled signal through a big enough cabinet and suitably amplified and you will hear and feel the sound as well. If you were in the same room as some of the greats playing through their modelling rigs you might change your mind... I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding my position, here. I think that modelers are an economic choice, which is exactly what you are saying. You just seem to think that because those specific players' economic decision(s) brought them to modelers that somehow that is an artistic choice. Since neither of us actually know for sure, let's not turn this into a dick measuring contest and you can go back to your modelers and I'll keep them around as backups (even though in 20+ years of playing shows I can't recall actually having had an amp go down). |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 2:55:23 PM EDT
[#49]
This was from maybe a month or so back. My rig is on the right looking at the photo. I have a 212 on stage. I use a Fractal FM9 to FOH and power amp and cabinet on stage. Hybrid setup which I love. Depending on the venue it could be a 412, 212 or 112. Recently I moved to IEM’s for monitoring.
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Posted: 4/30/2024 3:02:31 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RickFinsta: I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding my position, here. I think that modelers are an economic choice, which is exactly what you are saying. You just seem to think that because those specific players' economic decision(s) brought them to modelers that somehow that is an artistic choice. Since neither of us actually know for sure, let's not turn this into a dick measuring contest and you can go back to your modelers and I'll keep them around as backups (even though in 20+ years of playing shows I can't recall actually having had an amp go down). It's a free country and if you prefer the old fashion way than you are free to indulge yourself. I'm saying it is no longer superior and the very best guitarists seem to agree with me... |
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