User Panel
User Panel
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 2:21:03 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WildBoar: What about people with bppv where certain head movements can cause that. Probable cause is about the totality of circumstances, not just one symptom of impairment. If they failed HGN with no other signs of impairment I wouldn't arrest them, especially if they had a medical explanation for it that checked out. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 3:00:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WildBoar: What about people with bppv where certain head movements can cause that. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 4:24:39 PM EDT
[#3]
Cop sure is a Dickhead.
What an asshole-He's the reason some people hate cops. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 4:39:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 103: Refusing to participate in fields has no separate legal penalty or consequence. Refusing to provide breath samples (or urine or blood as the situation demands) in a DUI** will result in varying levels legal penalty or consequence*. You cannot demand a blood test instead of a breath test. Agreeing to breath testing has no legal relationship to FSEs (other than as potential evidence of consciousness of guilt). To be clear on this point--a breath test can only be validly requested if PC exists for a DUI arrest prior to the request. That means most counties do breath tests in the jail as part of intake. FHP still has intoxylizers in some cars, but that still requires PC. The practical result of this is that the person is already under arrest for DUI prior to providing a breath sample. PBTs are only valid for determining underage drinking. I hope this makes sense. I am happy to clarify. *DL penalties are administrative the first time. That means a one year DL suspension eligible for hardship and subject to legal challenge in the form of an administrative review hearing. If a person has a prior refusal from a previous DUI arrest and refuses to blow, they are subject to an 18 month administrative DL suspension and can be charged with a misdemeanor of "prior refusal" along with the DUI. **BUI carries no direct DL-related penalty. But it does count towards stacking of penalties for any possible future DUI and the prior refusal law. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 103: Originally Posted By C-4: @103 Just to clarify: In FL (and presumably NH), you can refuse a FSE without consequences for that itself, but you cannot refuse a breath test or blood test? And you cannot demand a blood test instead of the breath test? So as long as you agree to breath testing, you can refuse the FSE? ETA: The clarification is the difference between refusing to do a FSE/SFST/FST vs demanding a blood test instead of a breath test. Refusing to provide breath samples (or urine or blood as the situation demands) in a DUI** will result in varying levels legal penalty or consequence*. You cannot demand a blood test instead of a breath test. Agreeing to breath testing has no legal relationship to FSEs (other than as potential evidence of consciousness of guilt). To be clear on this point--a breath test can only be validly requested if PC exists for a DUI arrest prior to the request. That means most counties do breath tests in the jail as part of intake. FHP still has intoxylizers in some cars, but that still requires PC. The practical result of this is that the person is already under arrest for DUI prior to providing a breath sample. PBTs are only valid for determining underage drinking. I hope this makes sense. I am happy to clarify. *DL penalties are administrative the first time. That means a one year DL suspension eligible for hardship and subject to legal challenge in the form of an administrative review hearing. If a person has a prior refusal from a previous DUI arrest and refuses to blow, they are subject to an 18 month administrative DL suspension and can be charged with a misdemeanor of "prior refusal" along with the DUI. **BUI carries no direct DL-related penalty. But it does count towards stacking of penalties for any possible future DUI and the prior refusal law. Awesome @103 That clarifies it. I would have no problem with a breath/blood/urine test, although at that point, from how you explain it, I would already be under arrest. I examine a lot of patients and do daily neuro exams and I think there is too much variability in results for a FSE to help me get out of a situation. I would refuse an FSE, then agree to/cooperate with a breath/blood/urine test after a cooperative arrest. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 4:53:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gilly: In my state, 0.08 BAC is prima facie evidence of impairment. That said, the only was I was putting you in front of an Intoxylizer was after an arrest. Arrests are made based upon probable cause of impairment. Performance of FSEs are a large part of building that PC, but arrests can be made without FSEs based on objective signs of impairment, presence of alcoholic beverages in the vehicle, or unsolicited admissions. If I arrested someone for DUI based on clear signs of impairment and they blew 0.00, I requested a urine sample to prove drug impairment. Even if they refused to blow or pee in a cup, the arrest stood based on my observations of impairment. I don't know anything about writing warrants for blood in DUI cases. We also didn't use PBT devices, and I was happy about. Used improperly, PBTs are a crutch and will ruin a DUI case. In my non-expert opinion, the Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus test is the best FSE out there. The eyes don't lie, and it can be performed on anyone that can keep their eyes open and track a stimulus with their eyes. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gilly: Originally Posted By Jason280: I'm genuinely curious, how does that work? Would blowing "0" remove any probable cause for bloodwork? In my state, 0.08 BAC is prima facie evidence of impairment. That said, the only was I was putting you in front of an Intoxylizer was after an arrest. Arrests are made based upon probable cause of impairment. Performance of FSEs are a large part of building that PC, but arrests can be made without FSEs based on objective signs of impairment, presence of alcoholic beverages in the vehicle, or unsolicited admissions. If I arrested someone for DUI based on clear signs of impairment and they blew 0.00, I requested a urine sample to prove drug impairment. Even if they refused to blow or pee in a cup, the arrest stood based on my observations of impairment. I don't know anything about writing warrants for blood in DUI cases. We also didn't use PBT devices, and I was happy about. Used improperly, PBTs are a crutch and will ruin a DUI case. In my non-expert opinion, the Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus test is the best FSE out there. The eyes don't lie, and it can be performed on anyone that can keep their eyes open and track a stimulus with their eyes. I do neuro exams on people daily. Nystagmus is not uncommon in people who are not intoxicated. What you have to contend with is selection bias. You are selecting people for the test that you suspect based on other signs to be intoxicated. As long as it’s used in conjunction with other findings, then it’s helpful but not as a stand-alone. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19737889/#:~:text=Purpose%3A%20Physiologic%20gaze%2Devoked%20nystagmus,officers%20to%20determine%20alcohol%20intoxication. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 5:08:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Should have asked the cop to perform it so you could make sure you understood.
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Posted: 4/19/2024 5:47:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WildBoar]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 103: "Head movements" do not cause nystagmus. There is such a thing as natural nystagmus, however. I am not sure what it's called but when I found out I had it they could tell by my eyes nystagmus. Always worried that would get me a DUI. Even though I never drink and drive. I assumed it was head movements because it can trigger my bppv but ai guess the eye thing doesn't matter. I am also afraid to tell a cop because they will think it's a bullshit excuse and assume more guilt. If I ever get suspected of DWI I am refusing the test and will just have them blow me or do a blood draw at the station. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 7:16:19 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WildBoar: I am not sure what it's called but when I found out I had it they could tell by my eyes nystagmus. Always worried that would get me a DUI. Even though I never drink and drive. I assumed it was head movements because it can trigger my bppv but ai guess the eye thing doesn't matter. I am also afraid to tell a cop because they will think it's a bullshit excuse and assume more guilt. If I ever get suspected of DWI I am refusing the test and will just have them blow me or do a blood draw at the station. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 7:22:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pinpoint6: LOL, take me in and blow me. I’m not doing any of that. 
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Posted: 4/19/2024 8:07:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Hell Officer, I couldn't do that if I was sob....ooops.
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Posted: 4/19/2024 8:20:29 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Creatyre: Funny part about that bs test is, I thought he did pretty well. I don't know what the standard is for those tests, but I only noticed 2 misses. His hands were reversed when he initially stopped, and he didn't return to the chest before putting his palms in his lap. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 8:28:17 PM EDT
[#12]
I had forgotten the first task by the time he described the third task. I don't drink at all. I never did Disco either. The smart thing to do is no booze on the boat.
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Posted: 4/19/2024 8:30:17 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 103: If you have natural nystagmus, you can get a letter from an eye doctor. Good idea to keep one in your glove box. I guess. Maybe it won't hurt and I do appreciate the advice. Either way I just don't trust officer discretion. Sorry. It is what it is. I will just have to go in cuffs get charged and blow asstons of money fighting it while I get fired merely for getting charged with it. Had a coworker get let go over being charged with a DUI years ago. He fought it and beat it but he lost a really damn good job because of it. I won't even drive if I had even a sip of anything. I don't need the I smell alcohol on you to get the ball rolling. Chances are I will probably never have to do one of these tests ever and I do everything to make sure I don't. But none of that is a guarantee. Yeah I am overthinking it. But after seeing that coworker essentially have his life turned upside down over a false arrest I am paranoid of it. If stopped I am always doing my best to make it an easy stop as I know they deal with some real fuckheads and don't need the extra bullshit. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 8:31:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rgaper: In this case, the guy's blood test also came back clean and they still didn't drop charges. The cop was visibly angry. All because "he seemed impaired." There has to be some degree of accountability against the cops who do this. It feels just like that shitty MLB umpire who gets calls wrong all the time but never gets fired. As someone who does not drink and does not use drugs, I have no patience for people who put me or my family at risk because of their poor choices... but I have even less patience for being accused of it without a good reason. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rgaper: Originally Posted By greenranger: Originally Posted By Jason280: Originally Posted By rgaper: Yeah there's a video on YT of a guy who blew 0.0 twice and the cop did not relent... he threatened the guy with arrest if he did not submit to a "voluntary" blood test. I'm genuinely curious, how does that work? Would blowing "0" remove any probable cause for bloodwork? Could be drugs assuming he’s showing the signs of being impaired. Blowing a 0 doesn’t mean one isn’t impaired it just means it’s not alcohol In this case, the guy's blood test also came back clean and they still didn't drop charges. The cop was visibly angry. All because "he seemed impaired." There has to be some degree of accountability against the cops who do this. It feels just like that shitty MLB umpire who gets calls wrong all the time but never gets fired. As someone who does not drink and does not use drugs, I have no patience for people who put me or my family at risk because of their poor choices... but I have even less patience for being accused of it without a good reason. Angel Hernandez syndrome, I kinda like it 
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 8:31:36 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 103: If you have natural nystagmus, you can get a letter from an eye doctor. Good idea to keep one in your glove box. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 103: Originally Posted By WildBoar: I am not sure what it's called but when I found out I had it they could tell by my eyes nystagmus. Always worried that would get me a DUI. Even though I never drink and drive. I assumed it was head movements because it can trigger my bppv but ai guess the eye thing doesn't matter. I am also afraid to tell a cop because they will think it's a bullshit excuse and assume more guilt. If I ever get suspected of DWI I am refusing the test and will just have them blow me or do a blood draw at the station. Wow. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 8:33:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HangfiresGhost: Defund the fish cops. They've obviously got too many people with too much spare time. Nope, it is how they are required to do their job. Don't like it, fire the politicians who came up with the laws. Learn how to fix the problem. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 8:37:24 PM EDT
[#17]
 just keep my opinions on the circumstances surrounding this to myself
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 8:41:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chisum: Nope, it is how they are required to do their job. Don't like it, fire the politicians who came up with the laws. Learn how to fix the problem. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chisum: Originally Posted By HangfiresGhost: Defund the fish cops. They've obviously got too many people with too much spare time. Nope, it is how they are required to do their job. Don't like it, fire the politicians who came up with the laws. Learn how to fix the problem. I thought cops had discretion. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 8:42:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By fargo007: Originally Posted By Pinpoint6: LOL, take me in and blow me. I'm not doing any of that. https://i.imgflip.com/18jwl2.jpg |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 8:45:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cobra-Commander: There is a separate set of FST’s developed for boating specifically because of equilibrium etc after being on a boat for any period of time. One leg stands and walk and turn and the ones you are used to seeing on traffic stops are part of the ashore battery of tests that cannot be completed until after a certain time has elapsed once you are ashore. That is why the palm pat, finger count, etc were developed. I got out of the game shortly after the test in the video was developed and the consensus amongst all of the Boarding Officers I worked with were that it was retarded. At 72, I have developed equilibrium issues. I have fallen several times just in the last 4 months. On one occasion I ended up on a trip to the ER. Family says I can't drive anymore, No car, truck, or tractor. If I had a boat all I could do is row. The doctor agreed since the med I have to take makes me very drowsy. The funny part is out of the four adult drivers, I have the only squeaky clean driving record. Yes, it is humiliating but the right decision. I have no desire to get in an accident. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 8:47:39 PM EDT
[#21]
Are you serious? Just get the freakin' breathilizer so we can get this clown show over with.
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Posted: 4/19/2024 8:49:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Riter: Clearly the blonde is nawt gill-tea. Anyway, the way the fish cop sways (when you see the two women) & you'd think he was drunk No, he knows his body camera is focused on her boobs and he can do little about it. For most men trying to do their job it is very uncomfortable. For the perverts, it is drool time. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 8:52:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swolliepop: would be great for fish cops to have to perform these tests sober vs inebriated and be judged on their performance. there’s NO WAY i (or anyone) could do any of those perfectly, despite being sober. designed to make you fail. If you watched the video the cop did demonstrate the drill. He did it flawlessly. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 9:00:09 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chisum: If you watched the video the cop did demonstrate the drill. He did it flawlessly. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chisum: Originally Posted By swolliepop: would be great for fish cops to have to perform these tests sober vs inebriated and be judged on their performance. there’s NO WAY i (or anyone) could do any of those perfectly, despite being sober. designed to make you fail. If you watched the video the cop did demonstrate the drill. He did it flawlessly. Because he is practiced. This type of behavior has been going on for a very long time. Disgusting behavior by our very own government |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 9:01:09 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: I thought cops had discretion. Come cops would rather let the Judge sort it out. Odds are they won't even show up for the hearing. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 9:04:59 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GaryM: Are you serious? Just get the freakin' breathilizer so we can get this clown show over with. That does seem logical which is why they have procedures that don't let them, is my guess. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 9:07:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rgaper: Yeah there's a video on YT of a guy who blew 0.0 twice and the cop did not relent... he threatened the guy with arrest if he did not submit to a "voluntary" blood test. I fucking hate fish cops. I've seen so many poachers, have reported a vehicle underwater, reckless boating... they don't do shit. Instead they'll hassle the family at the boat ramp. Fuck em. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rgaper: Originally Posted By haveTwo: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By UV18: The guy is on land. There is ZERO reason to do any alternate tests. As a suspect there's pretty much zero reason to do any tests. You ain't going to change the cop's mind at that point. Hell, some cops were found to be arresting people even after they blew 0.0's. Shut up and don't give them anything to get you on. Yeah there's a video on YT of a guy who blew 0.0 twice and the cop did not relent... he threatened the guy with arrest if he did not submit to a "voluntary" blood test. I fucking hate fish cops. I've seen so many poachers, have reported a vehicle underwater, reckless boating... they don't do shit. Instead they'll hassle the family at the boat ramp. Fuck em. Lol that's the game isn't it? Have we learned nothing from uvalde? Parents of dying children were tazed, beaten and cuffed. The mass murderer drew "lol" in the blood of the children he just killed. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 9:08:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: greenranger]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GaryM: Are you serious? Just get the freakin' breathilizer so we can get this clown show over with. They’re STANDARDIZED field Sobriety tests. If he doesn’t do them all in order as directed they’re not standardized Blame the defense lawyers who keep nit picking everything away for their 40 year old alcoholic daddy’s money clients |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 9:08:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hostile1: Because he is practiced. This type of behavior has been going on for a very long time. Disgusting behavior by our very own government Yup, and if assholes didn't sue for every stupid thing, they would not have to follow stupid rules. Does that make you feel better? |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 9:09:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By greenranger: They’re STANDARDIZED field Sobriety tests. If he doesn’t do them all in order as directed they’re not standardized Blame the defense lawyers who keep nit picking everything away for their 40 year old alcoholic daddy’s money clients Bingo. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 9:10:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swolliepop: not sure if this ^^ is the one he was referring to, but i’ve watched that one a few times and all i can say is……WOW. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swolliepop: Originally Posted By TaskForce: This? https://reason.com/2024/02/14/iowa-cops-arrested-a-sober-college-student-for-driving-intoxicated-his-lawsuit-is-moving-forward/ not sure if this ^^ is the one he was referring to, but i’ve watched that one a few times and all i can say is……WOW. You know those cops are suing him, right? He exposed their bs and they can't stand it. For the record I don't drink at all and despise drunks. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 9:24:09 PM EDT
[#32]
Societies’ boring people at it again.
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Posted: 4/19/2024 9:44:35 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 103: I really wasn't. A refusal is a refusal. "I want a blood test" will be interpreted by most officers as a refusal. I am representing a gentlemen right now who used those exact words in response to a deputy asking if he would participate in FSEs. But what the hell do I know? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 103: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: No, you were speaking completely off of the subject. At what point in the video did the fish cop request a breath sample? But what the hell do I know? Did he get the blood test and what were the results? If a police officer was so sure that someone is under the influence, wouldn't a blood test provide more legitimate data on impairment than FST pseudo-science bullshit? Wouldn't they want real data to help their case? |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 9:54:21 PM EDT
[#34]
What a crock of shit. I’ve been sober since 2016 and I doubt I could pass that stupid test.
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Posted: 4/19/2024 9:56:10 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By C-4: Awesome @103 That clarifies it. I would have no problem with a breath/blood/urine test, although at that point, from how you explain it, I would already be under arrest. I examine a lot of patients and do daily neuro exams and I think there is too much variability in results for a FSE to help me get out of a situation. I would refuse an FSE, then agree to/cooperate with a breath/blood/urine test after a cooperative arrest. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By C-4: Originally Posted By 103: Originally Posted By C-4: @103 Just to clarify: In FL (and presumably NH), you can refuse a FSE without consequences for that itself, but you cannot refuse a breath test or blood test? And you cannot demand a blood test instead of the breath test? So as long as you agree to breath testing, you can refuse the FSE? ETA: The clarification is the difference between refusing to do a FSE/SFST/FST vs demanding a blood test instead of a breath test. Refusing to provide breath samples (or urine or blood as the situation demands) in a DUI** will result in varying levels legal penalty or consequence*. You cannot demand a blood test instead of a breath test. Agreeing to breath testing has no legal relationship to FSEs (other than as potential evidence of consciousness of guilt). To be clear on this point--a breath test can only be validly requested if PC exists for a DUI arrest prior to the request. That means most counties do breath tests in the jail as part of intake. FHP still has intoxylizers in some cars, but that still requires PC. The practical result of this is that the person is already under arrest for DUI prior to providing a breath sample. PBTs are only valid for determining underage drinking. I hope this makes sense. I am happy to clarify. *DL penalties are administrative the first time. That means a one year DL suspension eligible for hardship and subject to legal challenge in the form of an administrative review hearing. If a person has a prior refusal from a previous DUI arrest and refuses to blow, they are subject to an 18 month administrative DL suspension and can be charged with a misdemeanor of "prior refusal" along with the DUI. **BUI carries no direct DL-related penalty. But it does count towards stacking of penalties for any possible future DUI and the prior refusal law. Awesome @103 That clarifies it. I would have no problem with a breath/blood/urine test, although at that point, from how you explain it, I would already be under arrest. I examine a lot of patients and do daily neuro exams and I think there is too much variability in results for a FSE to help me get out of a situation. I would refuse an FSE, then agree to/cooperate with a breath/blood/urine test after a cooperative arrest. I agree with this. I don't do drugs or drink and drive, i would rather do a breath/blood/urine test also. I get the eye test, but i don't trust the FST to be in any way objective. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:21:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pellinore: I agree with this. I don't do drugs or drink and drive, i would rather do a breath/blood/urine test also. I get the eye test, but i don't trust the FST to be in any way objective. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pellinore: Originally Posted By C-4: Originally Posted By 103: Originally Posted By C-4: @103 Just to clarify: In FL (and presumably NH), you can refuse a FSE without consequences for that itself, but you cannot refuse a breath test or blood test? And you cannot demand a blood test instead of the breath test? So as long as you agree to breath testing, you can refuse the FSE? ETA: The clarification is the difference between refusing to do a FSE/SFST/FST vs demanding a blood test instead of a breath test. Refusing to provide breath samples (or urine or blood as the situation demands) in a DUI** will result in varying levels legal penalty or consequence*. You cannot demand a blood test instead of a breath test. Agreeing to breath testing has no legal relationship to FSEs (other than as potential evidence of consciousness of guilt). To be clear on this point--a breath test can only be validly requested if PC exists for a DUI arrest prior to the request. That means most counties do breath tests in the jail as part of intake. FHP still has intoxylizers in some cars, but that still requires PC. The practical result of this is that the person is already under arrest for DUI prior to providing a breath sample. PBTs are only valid for determining underage drinking. I hope this makes sense. I am happy to clarify. *DL penalties are administrative the first time. That means a one year DL suspension eligible for hardship and subject to legal challenge in the form of an administrative review hearing. If a person has a prior refusal from a previous DUI arrest and refuses to blow, they are subject to an 18 month administrative DL suspension and can be charged with a misdemeanor of "prior refusal" along with the DUI. **BUI carries no direct DL-related penalty. But it does count towards stacking of penalties for any possible future DUI and the prior refusal law. Awesome @103 That clarifies it. I would have no problem with a breath/blood/urine test, although at that point, from how you explain it, I would already be under arrest. I examine a lot of patients and do daily neuro exams and I think there is too much variability in results for a FSE to help me get out of a situation. I would refuse an FSE, then agree to/cooperate with a breath/blood/urine test after a cooperative arrest. I agree with this. I don't do drugs or drink and drive, i would rather do a breath/blood/urine test also. I get the eye test, but i don't trust the FST to be in any way objective. Mind you, the only person who gets to say what the result of the HGN test was is the guy building a case against you. Video won’t help you. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:37:23 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chisum: If you watched the video the cop did demonstrate the drill. He did it flawlessly. 😂😂😂 |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:40:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hostile1: You know those cops are suing him, right? He exposed their bs and they can't stand it. For the record I don't drink at all and despise drunks. now that you mention it, yes, i do recall hearing that a while back. absolute garbage. but still protecting the TBL, per usual! |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:41:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Mind you, the only person who gets to say what the result of the HGN test was is the guy building a case against you. Video won’t help you. agree, and have heard MANY attorney and prosecutors say the same thing. |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 11:05:44 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Wow. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By 103: Originally Posted By WildBoar: I am not sure what it's called but when I found out I had it they could tell by my eyes nystagmus. Always worried that would get me a DUI. Even though I never drink and drive. I assumed it was head movements because it can trigger my bppv but ai guess the eye thing doesn't matter. I am also afraid to tell a cop because they will think it's a bullshit excuse and assume more guilt. If I ever get suspected of DWI I am refusing the test and will just have them blow me or do a blood draw at the station. Wow. What, you didn't believe in having to prove your innocence to a government agent that won't face any consequences for attempting his damnedest to fuck you over? |
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USA
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Posted: 4/20/2024 9:40:59 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By haveTwo: What, you didn't believe in having to prove your innocence to a government agent that won't face any consequences for attempting his damnedest to fuck you over? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By haveTwo: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By 103: Originally Posted By WildBoar: I am not sure what it's called but when I found out I had it they could tell by my eyes nystagmus. Always worried that would get me a DUI. Even though I never drink and drive. I assumed it was head movements because it can trigger my bppv but ai guess the eye thing doesn't matter. I am also afraid to tell a cop because they will think it's a bullshit excuse and assume more guilt. If I ever get suspected of DWI I am refusing the test and will just have them blow me or do a blood draw at the station. Wow. What, you didn't believe in having to prove your innocence to a government agent that won't face any consequences for attempting his damnedest to fuck you over? I must be one of those radicals that people talk about. |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 10:34:14 AM EDT
[#42]
The only good government is a new government.
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Posted: 4/20/2024 10:57:26 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By C-4: Awesome @103 That clarifies it. I would have no problem with a breath/blood/urine test, although at that point, from how you explain it, I would already be under arrest. I examine a lot of patients and do daily neuro exams and I think there is too much variability in results for a FSE to help me get out of a situation. I would refuse an FSE, then agree to/cooperate with a breath/blood/urine test after a cooperative arrest. IME, if you are not drunk. You are better off to do the FST's. You avoid the whole arrest deal. If you are drunk, have the money and ability to deal with a drivers license suspension. Refuse everything. Assuming you are in an area that is not going to mess with a blood draw. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/20/2024 11:05:42 AM EDT
[#44]
 When An MP Pulls You Over! Part 2 |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 1:08:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Capt-Planet]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 103: Refusing to participate in fields has no separate legal penalty or consequence. Refusing to provide breath samples (or urine or blood as the situation demands) in a DUI** will result in varying levels legal penalty or consequence*. You cannot demand a blood test instead of a breath test. Agreeing to breath testing has no legal relationship to FSEs (other than as potential evidence of consciousness of guilt). To be clear on this point--a breath test can only be validly requested if PC exists for a DUI arrest prior to the request. That means most counties do breath tests in the jail as part of intake. FHP still has intoxylizers in some cars, but that still requires PC. The practical result of this is that the person is already under arrest for DUI prior to providing a breath sample. PBTs are only valid for determining underage drinking. I hope this makes sense. I am happy to clarify. *DL penalties are administrative the first time. That means a one year DL suspension eligible for hardship and subject to legal challenge in the form of an administrative review hearing. If a person has a prior refusal from a previous DUI arrest and refuses to blow, they are subject to an 18 month administrative DL suspension and can be charged with a misdemeanor of "prior refusal" along with the DUI. **BUI carries no direct DL-related penalty. But it does count towards stacking of penalties for any possible future DUI and the prior refusal law. This is probably absolutely correct for Florida. It's off in a few ways for New Hampshire. Functionally, it's good enough advice for GD, but as I always say, consult an attorney in the jurisdiction for specific questions about laws in that jurisdiction if you actually need a concrete answer. |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 1:21:09 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama-Shooter: IME, if you are not drunk. You are better off to do the FST's. You avoid the whole arrest deal. If you are drunk, have the money and ability to deal with a drivers license suspension. Refuse everything. Assuming you are in an area that is not going to mess with a blood draw. Attorneys will usually give people the hard and fast rule of don't ever agree to the initial testing, regardless of the circumstances. But that's mostly because they only represent people who have been arrested. In those cases, it's very rare that doing the SFSTs actually helped the case, so that advice makes sense. |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 1:32:34 PM EDT
[#47]
Id clap my hands 7 times, flick the tyrant off, and kick him in his nuts.
Fucking ridiculous. They earn their hate. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/20/2024 1:35:09 PM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 4/20/2024 2:16:38 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: I must be one of those radicals that people talk about. 🤣🤣 |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 7:01:11 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capt-Planet: Attorneys will usually give people the hard and fast rule of don't ever agree to the initial testing, regardless of the circumstances. But that's mostly because they only represent people who have been arrested. In those cases, it's very rare that doing the SFSTs actually helped the case, so that advice makes sense. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capt-Planet: Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter: IME, if you are not drunk. You are better off to do the FST's. You avoid the whole arrest deal. If you are drunk, have the money and ability to deal with a drivers license suspension. Refuse everything. Assuming you are in an area that is not going to mess with a blood draw. Attorneys will usually give people the hard and fast rule of don't ever agree to the initial testing, regardless of the circumstances. But that's mostly because they only represent people who have been arrested. In those cases, it's very rare that doing the SFSTs actually helped the case, so that advice makes sense. I haven't lost a DUI case yet where the person refused SFST's and the breath test. I never get a blood draw. Most cops who lose DUI cases is because they don't document and write shit reports. The get caught up in the SFST refusal etc. By the time I'm asking someone do SFST's I'm 95% sure an arrest is going to be made. The other 5% get turned loose. And if they do well on HGN then I'm done at that point. Be safe. Some people just drive and act like shit. 10-8. |
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