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Back in my loss prevention days the number one response to a stop was, "Oh I forgot I had that " more than likely she will pay court fees and restitution back to target. Not sure on today's standerd but target will get about $1k and courts a few hundred bucks and be trespassed from all Targets for at least a year.
Spending $200 bucks Is totally not relvent, most shoplifters are females and most are 100% guilty. |
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Those regular guys are “loss prevention”. They are kinda like security. They can detain people who commit crimes. They detain the person and call actual police who show up and write the citation or haul them off to jail. Usually petty theft is released on a signature bond, meaning they agree to show up to court.
Happens all the time. |
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Quoted: This is what I was thinking. Make sure you have the tape of them stopping her inside the store. Show it the judge/jury. How can it be theft if the items never leave the store? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: She hasn’t stolen anything until she has left the store. Show up to court and contest. This is what I was thinking. Make sure you have the tape of them stopping her inside the store. Show it the judge/jury. How can it be theft if the items never leave the store? Because going past the last point of sale and trying to walk out of the store demonstrates intent. |
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Quoted: Quoted: She hasn’t stolen anything until she has left the store. Show up to court and contest. Absolutely not true Don’t they have to show some intent to steal, such as hiding the items if they are still in the store? |
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And shit like this is why I keep my attorneys on retainer. Similar situation happened to my youngest daughter only it was an incompetent cashier that neglected to scan "a single $5 item". DA dropped the charges however for putting my daughter through the hell of being arrested, harassed and denied her constitutional rights all over "alleged petty theft", extreme legal and public opinion pressure was applied, and Mall Merchant is no longer in business. Yup, I am a huge fucking hemorrhoid flaming asshole when someone fucks around with my family. OP, that's what you need to be. Take ... no ... prisoners!
EDIT: My daughter was 21 at the time and headed for a great career. This could have potentially derailed her hopes and dreams. |
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Just go to court and see the judge if the say guilty, appeal it to county, if they see it and don't throw it out and are guilty again appeal it to district where they will throw it out. Even if it's "sealed" after 6 months it will come back to bite her in the ass 100%
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Quoted: Is having a theft charge show up for the next 40 years or so not worth $2500-$5000 to have it dismissed and expunged ? Any job worth having does a criminal background check. View Quote Yes. Not only jobs, but schools, volunteer organizations, etc... I have one blemish on my record, and would pay a fairly significant amount of money to make it just disappear. It's caused me a pretty substantial amount of worry and grief over the last twenty-five years. |
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Quoted: Longtime friend came over for BBQ and beer this weekend. Tells me a story of his 18 year old daughter that went to Target, used the self checkout and forgot 2 smaller items on the bottom shelf that amounted like like $40 after paying for $200+ items that were in the cart. Checks out, walks to the door and before she leaves 2 random dudes come up to her block her, 1 grabs the cart almost pushing her back and they tell her forcefully that she needs to come with them. She has zero idea what to do, doesn't think she did anything wrong and goes with these guys to the security office where they tell her they just caught her stealing. She's confused as she has a receipt. They say they're calling the cops and she freaks out as she has never been in trouble at all with anything. The big mistake here is that she is too scared/embarrassed to call dad at this point as he would have asked if an officer was present (there was none) and told her to have either left or to meet him outside in the parking lot to figure out WTF was going on. Instead, she sits there for almost 2 hours until a officer decides to show up as I'm sure this guy didn't want to deal with the paperwork. The hilarious thing is that while she was sitting there for 2 hours, they pulled in 2 black girls who literally started fighting with the staff and they were mysteriously gone by the time the officer arrived. Officer shows up, talks to the security office people and they fill him in on the 'theft'. He looks at the camera footage and instantly tells them it clearly looks like an accident with zero intent. Offers to have her pay for the items and be done as well as mentions that she did not actually leave the store with any items and she must be some criminal mastermind to buy 200$ worth of items to steal 2 plastic storages boxes left on the bottom of the cart. They don't want to do that as apparently this specific store has been targeted with thieves and they are watching 100% of self checkout transactions hence why they caught this so fast. Officer is forced to write a citation for 'petty larceny' and she's sent home. Get's a mailer card a bit later with a court date. Dad has called the court, prosecutors office and no one knows anything other than there's a court date. He googled the charge and its a misdemeanor with usually some smallish fine and can be sealed within 6 months to a year - makes a lawyer basically unwarranted especially due to cost. Main issue right now is none of us have ever had to deal with any court stuff, for anything other than a divorce. She has a court date set middle of next month that basically gives her case number, time/date and where to go. We were trying to figure out what was next? She shows up to a shitty downtown judicial building and sits around for hours to get some copy/paste 'deal' for a fine? Or what usually happens here? I can't imagine they'd actually send this to a trial or whatever as A. she has 0 history B. the case is flimsy as it is as the first thing needed to prove petty larceny in Nevada is intent and C. who the hell would want to waste time and resources on this? What usually happens at that point? It's insane to me watching people steal thousands from stores on youtube and ransack gas stations and malls with zero repercussions yet we end up with this? View Quote To be fair, you don't know if any of that is true. I am sure an 18 year old wouldn't lie after getting caught stealing. It is very common for shoplifters to steal items while paying for other items. |
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Quoted: Longtime friend came over for BBQ and beer this weekend. Tells me a story of his 18 year old daughter that went to Target, used the self checkout and forgot 2 smaller items on the bottom shelf that amounted like like $40 after paying for $200+ items that were in the cart. Checks out, walks to the door and before she leaves 2 random dudes come up to her block her, 1 grabs the cart almost pushing her back and they tell her forcefully that she needs to come with them. She has zero idea what to do, doesn't think she did anything wrong and goes with these guys to the security office where they tell her they just caught her stealing. She's confused as she has a receipt. They say they're calling the cops and she freaks out as she has never been in trouble at all with anything. The big mistake here is that she is too scared/embarrassed to call dad at this point as he would have asked if an officer was present (there was none) and told her to have either left or to meet him outside in the parking lot to figure out WTF was going on. Instead, she sits there for almost 2 hours until a officer decides to show up as I'm sure this guy didn't want to deal with the paperwork. The hilarious thing is that while she was sitting there for 2 hours, they pulled in 2 black girls who literally started fighting with the staff and they were mysteriously gone by the time the officer arrived. Officer shows up, talks to the security office people and they fill him in on the 'theft'. He looks at the camera footage and instantly tells them it clearly looks like an accident with zero intent. Offers to have her pay for the items and be done as well as mentions that she did not actually leave the store with any items and she must be some criminal mastermind to buy 200$ worth of items to steal 2 plastic storages boxes left on the bottom of the cart. They don't want to do that as apparently this specific store has been targeted with thieves and they are watching 100% of self checkout transactions hence why they caught this so fast. Officer is forced to write a citation for 'petty larceny' and she's sent home. Get's a mailer card a bit later with a court date. Dad has called the court, prosecutors office and no one knows anything other than there's a court date. He googled the charge and its a misdemeanor with usually some smallish fine and can be sealed within 6 months to a year - makes a lawyer basically unwarranted especially due to cost. Main issue right now is none of us have ever had to deal with any court stuff, for anything other than a divorce. She has a court date set middle of next month that basically gives her case number, time/date and where to go. We were trying to figure out what was next? She shows up to a shitty downtown judicial building and sits around for hours to get some copy/paste 'deal' for a fine? Or what usually happens here? I can't imagine they'd actually send this to a trial or whatever as A. she has 0 history B. the case is flimsy as it is as the first thing needed to prove petty larceny in Nevada is intent and C. who the hell would want to waste time and resources on this? What usually happens at that point? It's insane to me watching people steal thousands from stores on youtube and ransack gas stations and malls with zero repercussions yet we end up with this? View Quote I'm a real defense lawyer and here's what she needs to know. It may seem to be a weak case, but she should take it seriously. She should NEVER plead guilty to something that she did not do To commit theft she would have had to intended to take those two items. Without intent, there is no theft. She needs to hire a lawyer. If she were to run into the wrong prosecutor and/or the wrong judge, she could wind up with a criminal record. |
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Show up to court date and make sure the officer is there and try and get a copy of the store security footage. Have officer testify that he didn't think it was san intentional theft and have him state what he said to the store employees. Chances are it will get dismissed. She will likely get banned from the store but oh well.
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Exactly why I NEVER self checkout.
I'm no trained employee cashier. Check me out or gfy |
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Quoted: Show up to court date and make sure the officer is there and try and get a copy of the store security footage. Have officer testify that he didn't think it was san intentional theft and have him state what he said to the store employees. Chances are it will get dismissed. She will likely get banned from the store but oh well. View Quote A copy of the video was given to police by the LP staff to be used as evidence. I'd bet a lot of money that the entire incident was filmed from the time she put the items in the cart until she was escorted to the AP office. |
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Its different in every state but here the offender must exit the building since most store restrooms.are between exits and registers . I
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Quoted: passing the last point of sale while en route to the exit is what is required. Loss Prevention may not apprehend once they leave the store. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Don’t they have to show some intent to steal, such as hiding the items if they are still in the store? passing the last point of sale while en route to the exit is what is required. Loss Prevention may not apprehend once they leave the store. Thanks |
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Quoted: We were trying to figure out what was next? She shows up to a shitty downtown judicial building and sits around for hours to get some copy/paste 'deal' for a fine? View Quote Yes. It's insane to me watching people steal thousands from stores on youtube and ransack gas stations and malls with zero repercussions yet we end up with this? View Quote Also yes. |
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Fight it till the end. Officers testimony (if he shows up, I think she gets off if he doesn’t) should clear her.
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Hire an attorney.
If she’s not black, she is already guilty. That’s the way of the world right now. Either do that or let her take the rap for theft. It will affect her the rest of her life. But you go ahead and cheap out, thinking everything will be fine. I have worked in private security for almost 3 decades, with time in retail theft and investigations. It’s easy to beat if you’re black, if you’re white, it’s an easy slam dunk. They have all the proof they need to make it stick. |
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She'll wind up with a fine and maybe probation. Intent or not, she did pass final point of sale with unpaid merchandise.
Friend of mine got popped in a similar way. At the time you could still grab your own cigarettes. She did, and put them in her purse so the 2 year old couldn't chew on them. Shopped, paid for $150 or so in groceries. She was on her way back to the register to pay for the forgotten cigs when loss prevention stopped her. Charged with theft, took it to court and was found guilty. If she has a clean record and it's trivial items tell her to ask about a deferred judgment. Once fines and expenses are paid it's essentially off her record. Deferred judgment is rarely OFFERED, it has to be requested. |
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If it were my daughter, I would hire an attorney and push back as hard as possible.
That is ridiculous. |
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Quoted: If she never left the premises, aka thru the doors, then she never technically stole the items? IANAL. What's the legal definition in your statue book for what she's charged with? View Quote Wrong. She passed the last point of purchase and was leaving the store. That is one of the criteria for a good shoplifting bust. |
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In NV once you pass the last point of sale is what matters.
If she is in southern NV, tell her dad to hire Ross Goodman and be done with it. |
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I personally have watched numerous basketball people walk out of Target with arms loaded with things without anyone doing anything.
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Quoted: While I agree in principle. Maybe don’t steal shit? View Quote It doesn't sound like theft. Sounds like an honest mistake no intent to deprive. Cop shouldn't have even wrote a citation. If he believed it was a mistake I would think he would have the power to decline to enforce a law that he doesn't think was broken. |
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Quoted: Show up to court date and make sure the officer is there and try and get a copy of the store security footage. Have officer testify that he didn't think it was an intentional theft and have him state what he said to the store employees. Chances are it will get dismissed. She will likely get banned from the store but oh well. View Quote The arresting/citing officer will not be there on her arraignment/first appearance date. And yeah, if she wants to plead not guilty and get discovery, go for it. However, Target will have video of her bypassing all points of sale without any attempt to pay. I would *assume* the officers report and the Loss Prevention staff will have reported the same thing. |
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View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: She hasn’t stolen anything until she has left the store. Show up to court and contest. Wrong. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/530275/IMG_5570_jpeg-3157502.JPG Yes but I'm sure that requires intent. |
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Quoted: She'll wind up with a fine and maybe probation. Intent or not, she did pass final point of sale with unpaid merchandise. … View Quote There’s a very specific reason so many posters are using the exact same verbiage to describe this situation. That should be a good indication of what’s about to happen to her. |
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Quoted: Fight it till the end. Officers testimony (if he shows up, I think she gets off if he doesn’t) should clear her. View Quote They always show up and if they don’t the court will continue the case to a later date when the officer will show up. Police often have court days worked into their schedules. OP. Friend needs to get a lawyer 100%. Court won’t even bother hearing arguments about it being an accident unless it’s a lawyer doing the arguing. A lawyer will be the only one able to request video footage and evidence and all that. I worked in a security retail type of role for years and years. I personally have been a part of probably 500 cases exactly like this. The only way people get off is by getting a lawyer. A simple petty theft conviction will ruin a persons ability to get a job for a long time. Gas stations around here won’t even hire anyone with a theft/stealing type of conviction. If she shops around she should be able to get a lawyer cheaper than $5K. I would guess $2500 is probably what to expect. |
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It could fuck up her future career plans. No matter what they tell you, arrests never go away.
Tell your friend to get his daughter an attorney. If he won't, then do it yourself if you can afford it. Don't let her plead guilty and go in there in surrender mode. There was no intent. |
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Quoted: Yes but I'm sure that requires intent. View Quote Can’t always judge intent. If someone leaves the POS with merchandise they didn’t pay for, they can claim they forgot. Now, a reasonable person would give them the chance to pay for the items if they were left on the bottom of the cart. Sounds like LP was told by store management to press charges on all incidents, regardless of the situation. She got screwed because other people have been stealing. |
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Quoted: It doesn't sound like theft. Sounds like an honest mistake no intent to deprive. Cop shouldn't have even wrote a citation. If he believed it was a mistake I would think he would have the power to decline to enforce a law that he doesn't think was broken. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: While I agree in principle. Maybe don’t steal shit? It doesn't sound like theft. Sounds like an honest mistake no intent to deprive. Cop shouldn't have even wrote a citation. If he believed it was a mistake I would think he would have the power to decline to enforce a law that he doesn't think was broken. The cop isn't the one pursuing charges. The loss prevention guys are. The citation is used as a summons for a court date only. Here, if it's a class c theft (<$100) and the store wants to prosecute, the store personnel are the ones that sign the theft complaint. |
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Quoted: Yes. Not only jobs, but schools, volunteer organizations, etc... I have one blemish on my record, and would pay a fairly significant amount of money to make it just disappear. It's caused me a pretty substantial amount of worry and grief over the last twenty-five years. View Quote Get the ball rolling. File for an expungement. Especially if it's been 25 years. https://www.in.gov/courts/iocs/files/pubs-trial-court-courtmgmt-expungement-detailed.pdf |
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Quoted: We visited that idea as he had by himself. He had called a few people and they all wanted somewhere between $2500-$5000 for a retainer. She has 0 criminal history. There is 0 intent. The fines for it posted online in Nevada seem to be around $400ish dollars and the no contest/in lieu pleas are sealable after 6 or 12 months. View Quote Just because they are sealed doesn’t mean they cant be seen in certain circumstances. Fight it |
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Just talked to him. Another question:
He says the court date is an arrainment. My understanding is this is simply where you would say guilty or not guilty? So no deal to drop or no contest or whatever you would say not guilty and then end up with a court date in the future for a trial? |
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Might actually be worth demanding a trial.
Force the district attorney to drop it or trial, settle for nothing else given how chicken shit it all is. The tactic will be exactly the kind of stereotype "take this deal and in 6 months it goes away." But is it really? Fuck it, waste everyones time |
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Her dad isn't a lawyer. In this situation she needs a lawyer, not GD or her dad (unless he's paying for the lawyer).
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Meeting with the prosecutor before trial is called a pre-trial conference. There is usually no meeting before arraignment. Just entering a plea.
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Two things- op is hearing this all secondhand from a biased source if Im understanding correct so daughter could have lied to daddy and daddy may have bought it because shes my sweet baby angel and has never done that. Also I think shoplifting requires you leave the building technically, I would contest in court ask to subpoena footage of security cams.
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Yep, as much as it sucks lawyer up.
I've read about this happening, and the dumbest part is people that realize they missed an item and go back to pay for it are charged. I was told if you miss an item, and you feel guilty upon discovery that you missed the item just ring up the same item the next time you are there and leave the item behind but tell no-one what happened. |
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Lawyer up and In turn go after them with anything that might stick and especially almost there your attorneys fees.
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Lawyer. Can likely get charges dismissed. Theft requires intent, sounds like LE thought there was no intent and should have told Target to pound sand. I'd get a copy of that body camera video ASAP to make sure it's available.
I wouldn't go in and plead guilty or take diversion. Maybe accept a quick dismissal for court costs if it saved attorney fees. I'm a cop, not a lawyer. Advice is worth what you paid for it. |
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Quoted: Two things- op is hearing this all secondhand from a biased source if Im understanding correct so daughter could have lied to daddy and daddy may have bought it because shes my sweet baby angel and has never done that. Also I think shoplifting requires you leave the building technically, I would contest in court ask to subpoena footage of security cams. View Quote It’ll be defined in the state criminal code. It’s very clear. Some states don’t require you to leave the building. |
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