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Posted: 3/13/2024 9:25:19 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not true. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: She hasn’t stolen anything until she has left the store. Show up to court and contest. Not true. then I guess everyone walking around with a shopping cart full of items in the store is stealing. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 9:26:15 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who is the paddle for? For the girl charged with shoplifting. It's because she's up shit creek without a paddle. 
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Posted: 3/13/2024 9:28:06 AM EDT
[#3]
First court date is arraignment. She will plead guilty, not guilty, or no contest.
Court date after that is trial if she pleads not guilty. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 9:29:44 AM EDT
[#4]
I'd fight that.
... As to shoplifting. Folks would buy lots of stuff and steal a $1 item. Never understood it. And have $1000 in cash on them. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 9:32:39 AM EDT
[#5]
Keep us updated OP its an interesting case.
Awaiting the out come. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 9:41:29 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought ARFCOM despised shoplifting. I used to think the same thing. I was told just yesterday in a thread that we support politicians that are too pro2a in the Brandon Herrera thread. This forum sadly isn’t what it used to be, in my opinion. People will screech in other threads about thieves and personal accountability. But it’s all a virtue signal. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 9:43:44 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: then I guess everyone walking around with a shopping cart full of items in the store is stealing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: She hasn’t stolen anything until she has left the store. Show up to court and contest. Not true. then I guess everyone walking around with a shopping cart full of items in the store is stealing. This is what I’m talking about. Willful ignorance on proud display. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 9:48:58 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: then I guess everyone walking around with a shopping cart full of items in the store is stealing. And that’s the best you’ve got? Try harder. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 9:49:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: then I guess everyone walking around with a shopping cart full of items in the store is stealing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: She hasn’t stolen anything until she has left the store. Show up to court and contest. Not true. then I guess everyone walking around with a shopping cart full of items in the store is stealing. I would suggest that there is a difference betwen which side of the registers you are on. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 9:52:26 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd fight that. ... As to shoplifting. Folks would buy lots of stuff and steal a $1 item. Never understood it. And have $1000 in cash on them. It seems bizarre that stores expect customers to act as their own cashiers then expect them to do their own quality assurance too. As for this case I'd want the officer's body cam. If he did say that "it clearly looks like an accident with zero intent" I would play that for the prosecutor before the case and ask if this is a case he really wants to prosecute. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 10:02:00 AM EDT
[#11]
Whenever GD gets mad about the police doing something I’m going to remember this thread where half the posters demonstrate how they don’t know shit about fuck.
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Posted: 3/13/2024 10:03:39 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quit with the facts and being knowledgeable. Go pick up that can! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Making a mistake at check out is not a crime. Stealing is. It’s not our fault you’re not aware on laws regarding what stores can and can’t do. Quit with the facts and being knowledgeable. Go pick up that can! How can you tell if they made a mistake or not? |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 10:11:03 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Only she knows if it was accidental or intentional, but people do accidentally leave stuff on the bottom of the cart. I was at the grocery store one time, went through normal check out and was out in the parking lot loading my car when I realized I had a case of beer in the bottom of the cart that did not get rung up. I walked it back into the store, paid for it, and went on my way. I posted several pages back that I did exactly the same thing....except mine was a package of paper towels in the rack below the main part of the cart. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 10:11:55 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How can you tell if they made a mistake or not? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Making a mistake at check out is not a crime. Stealing is. It’s not our fault you’re not aware on laws regarding what stores can and can’t do. Quit with the facts and being knowledgeable. Go pick up that can! How can you tell if they made a mistake or not? That is why we have courts and judges. Unfortunately they are fucked up too. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 10:14:03 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is why we have courts and judges. Unfortunately they are fucked up too. It's not a "justice" system. Unfortunately, it's only a "legal" system. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 10:15:54 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd hire an attorney. I don't stop for receipt checkers, "big" dudes or otherwise. I have also stopped using self check out for the most part. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 10:17:20 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We visited that idea as he had by himself. He had called a few people and they all wanted somewhere between $2500-$5000 for a retainer. She has 0 criminal history. There is 0 intent. The fines for it posted online in Nevada seem to be around $400ish dollars and the no contest/in lieu pleas are sealable after 6 or 12 months. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'd hire an attorney. We visited that idea as he had by himself. He had called a few people and they all wanted somewhere between $2500-$5000 for a retainer. She has 0 criminal history. There is 0 intent. The fines for it posted online in Nevada seem to be around $400ish dollars and the no contest/in lieu pleas are sealable after 6 or 12 months. There is zero chance I'd do that. I'd spend a lot of money in principle. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 10:38:05 AM EDT
[#18]
The chance that an arrest (never mind a guilty plea) will remain on an 18 year old's record for the rest of her life pretty much falls into the "get a lawyer no matter what" category.
I would not trust anybody who says "the record can be sealed after 6-12 months". That's bullshit and there have been threads in here about people dealing with juvenile records that were allegedly "sealed". Also the girl needs to learn some attention to detail - if the goods were plainly visible from an overhead camera then they were plainly visible to her. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 10:40:00 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It seems bizarre that stores expect customers to act as their own cashiers then expect them to do their own quality assurance too. Exactly. Last time through one of those damn self-checkouts, I had some 'bulk' fruit that I had bagged myself. There was no barcode to scan, so I had to pick out the item from a list. I accidentally pressed the wrong item (which would have rung me up for something like $0.29/lb) - then realized my mistake and changed it to the correct one (for $0.89 or whatever). Had I not caught my 'typo', I would have been technically shoplifting, I guess... |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 10:42:51 AM EDT
[#20]
As someone who worked LP for ten years, including investigations for Target, and now LE, I'm willing to bet there is more to this story she isn't divulging. And the sheer amount of wrong information regarding "assaults", "kidnapping" and "leaving the store" in this thread is mind boggling.
However, if she is 100% honest and that's all it was along with the officer stating what she claimed, fight it. For the level of offense, it would likely just be a justice court (depends on city) and a bench trial that all the claimed evidence can be displayed. However, if the officer viewed the video and that was his conclusion, I highly doubt a citation would be issued. Feel free to PM me OP and I'll answer any questions I can. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 10:49:41 AM EDT
[#21]
Who pays $200 to steal items totaling $40? Plus, she didn’t leave the store and they had eyes on her. Why didn’t they just have her pay for the other items?
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Posted: 3/13/2024 10:49:48 AM EDT
[#22]
I’m amazed that people in this thread think that an 18-year-old white girl would shoplift from Target and then spin a tale to her dad about it after she got caught.
That’s pretty unbelievable. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 10:59:30 AM EDT
[#23]
For those saying LP has no right to detain her while waiting for the popo,and also saying that she did not steal anything because she never left the store.
Does this mean that if someone walked to your porch took a package and you caught them before they left your property are you going to let them go since they did not walk completely off your property?Will you not hold them at gunpoint since that would be deatining them and you are not a police officer? |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:06:31 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For those saying LP has no right to detain her while waiting for the popo,and also saying that she did not steal anything because she never left the store. Does this mean that if someone walked to your porch took a package and you caught them before they left your property are you going to let them go since they did not walk completely off your property?Will you not hold them at gunpoint since that would be deatining them and you are not a police officer? I'd recommend those folks research shopkeeper's privilege. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:11:57 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For those saying LP has no right to detain her while waiting for the popo,and also saying that she did not steal anything because she never left the store. Does this mean that if someone walked to your porch took a package and you caught them before they left your property are you going to let them go since they did not walk completely off your property?Will you not hold them at gunpoint since that would be deatining them and you are not a police officer? 1. I'm not holding someone at gunpoint for a package on my porch. If something is that important to me, I'm going to get it shipped to the annex and pick it up there. 2. I've literally come out the door, pointed to the camera and said, "Really? Drop it and go, or the cops are getting the video." |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:13:29 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd recommend those folks research shopkeeper's privilege. Yup my point if it was the other way around and someones stuff was taken you can bet everyone posting would say they would have held them til cops arrived.Heck some might even put on the tacticool vest to make it real. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:15:15 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd hire an attorney. This. In the long run, money well spent, IMO. Keep her record clean, even if it will cost a few bucks (she pays). |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:16:06 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd recommend those folks research shopkeeper's privilege. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For those saying LP has no right to detain her while waiting for the popo,and also saying that she did not steal anything because she never left the store. Does this mean that if someone walked to your porch took a package and you caught them before they left your property are you going to let them go since they did not walk completely off your property?Will you not hold them at gunpoint since that would be deatining them and you are not a police officer? I'd recommend those folks research shopkeeper's privilege. I'm not stopping for someone at a store exit. I could not care less about shopkeeper's privilege or checking receipts. I'm not stealing and I have a good lawyer. They literally watch people leave with carts full of goods and are fired for trying to intervene. The apparently only chose to stop people they think they can intimidate. Those are the people causing price increases, not some girl forgetting a couple plastic tubs. They are free to eliminate the possibility and get rid of self-checkout. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:20:23 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hire an attorney. Hire an attorney. No telling how this mishap could affect her in the future. I’ve stopped shopping at target for other reasons, this story just reinforces my decision. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:22:49 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who pays $200 to steal items totaling $40? Plus, she didn’t leave the store and they had eyes on her. Why didn’t they just have her pay for the other items? That's extremely common. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:36:29 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Worth it. Getting convicted of petty theft will negatively impact her life You do not want this showing up on a background check. Perhaps I am in the minority, I have a small business, and also manage some rentals. I do not hire convicted thieves, or rent to them. I don't really care how along ago it happened, or what the excuse is, there are non criminals that I choose to pay more to hire instead. Why should I risk my business or reputation by hiring a convict? A convict who is more like to steal again than a non convict, or who has a greater chance of associating with other thieves who may steal from me or my customers. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:38:04 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought ARFCOM despised shoplifting. You missed the bit where this was a white girl and an evil corporation is involved. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:40:15 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I used to think the same thing. I was told just yesterday in a thread that we support politicians that are too pro2a in the Brandon Herrera thread. This forum sadly isn’t what it used to be, in my opinion. People will screech in other threads about thieves and personal accountability. But it’s all a virtue signal. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I thought ARFCOM despised shoplifting. I used to think the same thing. I was told just yesterday in a thread that we support politicians that are too pro2a in the Brandon Herrera thread. This forum sadly isn’t what it used to be, in my opinion. People will screech in other threads about thieves and personal accountability. But it’s all a virtue signal. It literally comes down to tribe affiliations. Do we perceive someone as an "us" or a "them?" Every attempt to apply standards or reason beyond that will only disappoint. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:42:15 AM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:43:30 AM EDT
[#35]
myob
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:47:55 AM EDT
[#36]
Based on what OP has said, if I was on her jury, I'd vote Guilty. I have heard of/seen too many cases of girls "forgetting" something while paying for other items. Thrill steal or just cheap, it is still theft.
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:48:20 AM EDT
[#37]
figured I would post this, this is my state's statute not the OP's....but they may use force to detain someone.
I would think* that this is more worded towards someone that loss prevention tags, not the receipt checker who is checking everyone. I. A merchant, or his or her agent, is justified in detaining any person who he or she has reasonable grounds to believe has committed the offense of willful concealment, as defined by RSA 637:3-a, on his or her premises as long as necessary to surrender the person to a peace officer, provided such detention is conducted in a reasonable manner. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:48:40 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd hire an attorney. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:49:48 AM EDT
[#39]
Get the lawyer, beat Target's ass .don't look back. Make no mistake TARGET is your foe, not government.
Officer shows up, talks to the security office people and they fill him in on the 'theft'. He looks at the camera footage and instantly tells them it clearly looks like an accident with zero intent. Offers to have her pay for the items and be done as well as mentions that she did not actually leave the store with any items and she must be some criminal mastermind to buy 200$ worth of items to steal 2 plastic storages boxes left on the bottom of the cart. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:49:52 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ancap rushes to the defense of a liberal multinational. The corpos don't love you back, bud. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’ll make my prediction: I think Target has video of past incidents where she “forgot” to ring items up. Ancap rushes to the defense of a liberal multinational. The corpos don't love you back, bud. Yeah, that's it. I'm a shill for Target. It's not that Target in particular is known for letting shoplifters walk, building a case until they have evidence of a pattern of behavior that surpasses the threshold for a felony charge. That can't be it. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:54:03 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: She hasn’t stolen anything until she has left the store. Show up to court and contest. Varies by state, but that generally isn’t how it works. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:56:07 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck target. Get a lawyer. This (both sentences) X 100 (and I am a lawyer, just not yours or hers, or anyone else's in Utah). |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:59:31 AM EDT
[#43]
Lawyer ASAP. She's got her whole life ahead of her and a conviction for even a minor offense can carry long-term consequences. Criminal records are public and are way more easily accessible than they used to be.
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:59:55 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As someone who worked LP for ten years, including investigations for Target, and now LE, I'm willing to bet there is more to this story she isn't divulging. And the sheer amount of wrong information regarding "assaults", "kidnapping" and "leaving the store" in this thread is mind boggling. However, if she is 100% honest and that's all it was along with the officer stating what she claimed, fight it. For the level of offense, it would likely just be a justice court (depends on city) and a bench trial that all the claimed evidence can be displayed. However, if the officer viewed the video and that was his conclusion, I highly doubt a citation would be issued. Feel free to PM me OP and I'll answer any questions I can. LP related threads are always full of comedy. People would be shocked to know that many states allow stores to basically forcefully detain shoplifters. The store policies are far more restrictive than the state laws in these matters. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 12:01:37 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It seems bizarre that stores expect customers to act as their own cashiers then expect them to do their own quality assurance too. As for this case I'd want the officer's body cam. If he did say that "it clearly looks like an accident with zero intent" I would play that for the prosecutor before the case and ask if this is a case he really wants to prosecute. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'd fight that. ... As to shoplifting. Folks would buy lots of stuff and steal a $1 item. Never understood it. And have $1000 in cash on them. It seems bizarre that stores expect customers to act as their own cashiers then expect them to do their own quality assurance too. As for this case I'd want the officer's body cam. If he did say that "it clearly looks like an accident with zero intent" I would play that for the prosecutor before the case and ask if this is a case he really wants to prosecute. I hate self checkout. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 12:07:18 PM EDT
[#46]
No, it doesn't make a lawyer not worth it. He need to get her an attorney and have that attorney show up on the court date. If she pleads it out it could haunt her down the line. I repeat, lawyer up. It's a bullshit charge if it happened like you say, and a second year law student could prove that.
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Posted: 3/13/2024 12:10:31 PM EDT
[#47]
I have not tried any cases in Utah. But in Ontario and in Alberta a case such as this would most likely result in diversion. In Ontario, the prosecutors would probably withdraw the charge were she to make a small charitable contribution. In Alberta this case would most likely be resolved by way of a peace bond. The charge would be withdrawn and she would promise to keep the peace and be of good behavior for one year.
A good lawyer most likely could get the charge diverted. But she needs a lawyer to advocate on her behalf. A friend of mine once had a simple marijuana charge and he got stuck with a criminal record. This conviction means that he cannot cross the US border without a lot of grief. His charge was really minor and really stupid and had my friend come to me, I could have helped him get the charge diverted. Please make sure that she has a lawyer. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 12:13:09 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LP related threads are always full of comedy. People would be shocked to know that many states allow stores to basically forcefully detain shoplifters. The store policies are far more restrictive than the state laws in these matters. Without a doubt. I worked some pretty rough areas when I did it and would be in more scraps in a month than I have been in my entire LE career. Lot's of retailers are shying away from physical detention due to lawsuits and liability, honestly don't know if Target allows that anymore. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 12:25:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The cost of an attorney now will be worth the cost in the near future. This |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 12:28:29 PM EDT
[#50]
Let me give you a real life example of what can happen in a shoplifting case. A Fort McMurray, Alberta woman owned a home in Phoenix, Arizona. This woman was charged with shoplifting and she did not at first treat the matter seriously. That is until she tried to fly to Phoenix. US customs has an office at the Edmonton airport and the customs officers would not allow the woman on to the plane. The customs officers told the lady that because of her outstanding criminal charge that they would not allow her into the United States.
The woman then came to see me and I was able to get her charge diverted. I knew that she was going to have further problems at the US border, so I ordered court transcripts and certified court documents. These documents showed that the charge had been withdrawn. I also wrote a letter to US customs and when my client travelled to Phoenix she presented all the documents to the customs officer. The customs officer let her in and he told her, "Without these documents, I would not have allowed you to enter the US". So even if the charge is diverted, the actual arrest itself can still cause problems. |
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