User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
IA, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2024 9:21:41 PM EDT
We have a neighbor who keeps calling the police about our dogs barking. The city ordinance (to me) is pretty open to interpretation.
"It's unlawful for the owner to allow or permit such a dog to cause a serious annoyance or disturbance to any person or persons by Frequent and habitual barking, yelping, howling. " We tried to resolve this with the neighbor with an officer present, but he didn't want nothing to do with that idea. So the officer gave us a citation stating we could plead not guilty and take it to court where he will be summoned. So that's what we're doing. I've been trying to get a lawyer to get some legal advice, but most of them in my area is booked for months. Now do our dogs bark? Yes. Do we allow it or permit it? No we don't. We put a stop to it once it happens and get them inside. Is it frequent or habitual? No. They bark a few times then come in. The barking may last a few seconds. I can't imagine it's actually causing a "serious disturbance" to him "a person" or "persons" and their barking isn't towards him. We have a wooden fenced in yard. They are not tied up all day and night barking uncontrollably. Before he finds out we're pleading not guilty and realize he'll have to go to court, we went ahead And talked to every neighbor in our area and had them fill out a statement wether or not they find our dogs a nuisance. They all were more than happy to do so and said they weren't a problem. Some didn't even know we had dogs. So what are some things we can do to prepare for this court appearance? I've been recording videos of our dogs and their daily routines. And we have the statements from our neighbors. The officer said he has videos of our dogs barking and I told him they can't be for more than a few seconds at a time. He just said they're short videos. He's even tried to get the neighbors on the other side of us to file a complaint, but they wouldn't do it for him. I told the police this is becoming more of a harassment towards us and the officer said. It's not because he's calling about a disturbance that falls under the city ordinance. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 9:35:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Once you beat the pending citation, file harassment charges against the neighbor every time he calls the cops.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2024 9:37:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GrizzlyAdams: Once you beat the pending citation, file harassment charges against the neighbor every time he calls the cops. This because it sounds like you are ready to defend yourself in court. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 10:51:55 PM EDT
[#3]
Having all the neighbor's statements should help significantly.
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LA, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:00:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cycolac: Having all the neighbor's statements should help significantly. Probably not. Inadmissible hearsay. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:11:20 PM EDT
[#5]
No offense dude, but "my dog doesn't bark much" is almost always not the truth. No dog owner thinks THEIR dog is annoying people, but a significant number of owners are wrong about that.
I have seen people talk like it's cute that their dog wants to "talk to the other dog" ACROSS THE FUCKING LAKE all day every day. What position will you be in if he's got lots of video of your dog barking? Maybe get a anti-bark collar for the dog. They make them that spray scent and don't zap the dog. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 5:01:54 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dahugo: Probably not. Inadmissible hearsay. How is it heresay? It's not us saying "out other neighbors aren't bothered by them" They all signed and dated a statement. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 5:02:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ausher1880]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RR_Broccoli: No offense dude, but "my dog doesn't bark much" is almost always not the truth. No dog owner thinks THEIR dog is annoying people, but a significant number of owners are wrong about that. I have seen people talk like it's cute that their dog wants to "talk to the other dog" ACROSS THE FUCKING LAKE all day every day. What position will you be in if he's got lots of video of your dog barking? Maybe get a anti-bark collar for the dog. They make them that spray scent and don't zap the dog. They all got one on and it works for the most part. They really don't though. A few seconds of barking is all it is. Probably 10 to 30 seconds at the most when they are out. We don't leave them out all day long. Usually 5 minutes at the most. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 6:48:39 AM EDT
[#8]
Idk.
The ordinance says disturbance to any person. And I says it disturbs me. Therefore, I win. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 9:06:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ausher1880]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cooper1: Idk. The ordinance says disturbance to any person. And I says it disturbs me. Therefore, I win. But what would be considered a "serious disturbance or annoyance"? Saying, "hey my neighbors dogs disturbs me!" Is that really a serious disturbance? |
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Posted: 3/14/2024 9:37:46 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ausher1880: They really don't though. .Usually 5 minutes at the most. Going to be interesting if neighbor has video to present at Court showing your "" 5 minutes "" turns out to be 20mins |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 9:58:44 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ausher1880: How is it heresay? It's not us saying "out other neighbors aren't bothered by them" They all signed and dated a statement. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ausher1880: Originally Posted By dahugo: Probably not. Inadmissible hearsay. How is it heresay? It's not us saying "out other neighbors aren't bothered by them" They all signed and dated a statement. It's the very definition of hearsay, "an out of court statement, used in court, to prove the matter asserted." If the writers don't appear in court, statements are inadmissible. |
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Posted: 3/14/2024 9:59:01 AM EDT
[#12]
I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.
The BEST thing you can do here, is keep doing what you do, but with exterior video. Continue to do so until neighbor calls in another complaint, during a time period in which you are recording your dog, your reaction to your dog, and the video becomes your evidence that you are not leaving the dog out excessively, PRECISELY when such complaints are being filed. i.e. this exact scenario generated a complaint and it's clear that we didn't do anything wrong. REMEMBER, this is STILL open to the judges' interpretation on the matter, and the city people may have an unwritten agreement with the judge, 'guilty on any ordinance violation that comes across your desk, because we make more money that way'. The judge is getting paid to be there, he's a city hire. Remember that. If he's fair, he sees your video, sees the dog bark twice, you bring the dog in, the neighbor still complains, he tosses it. TBH, that dog might bark his ass off for an hour before you realize it. It's all objective, and you've got to remove the objectivity. If you lose the legal battle, you might be able to ask for a trial de novo. This will escalate it to a higher court with a fresh judge that isn't in the city pocket, and the city may drop charges rather than pay for their people to show up. This may or may not be an option for you, and this is where a lawyer friend will be helpful. |
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Posted: 3/14/2024 11:45:42 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cycolac: Having all the neighbor's statements should help significantly. Having the neighbors show up in court as witnesses will help: Statements won't. I was ready to go to court for a renter neighbor who was getting harassed by other neighbors because of her dogs, because that's what it takes. She decided it was just as easy to pay the small fine, but the other neighbors also contacted the landlord, and they were going to evict them. i had to contact the home owner, who I knew before they moved to their new place, to let them know, it was all the new people moving in who were the problem. She wasn't evicted, and the neighbors who were complaining have either since moved on, or they are now persona non grata, and they know it. Jay |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 12:46:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jos51700: I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. The BEST thing you can do here, is keep doing what you do, but with exterior video. Continue to do so until neighbor calls in another complaint, during a time period in which you are recording your dog, your reaction to your dog, and the video becomes your evidence that you are not leaving the dog out excessively, PRECISELY when such complaints are being filed. i.e. this exact scenario generated a complaint and it's clear that we didn't do anything wrong. l. I've been taking videos. Have a camera in the backyard now. Every time the police show up, they are already inside. I've been trying to get them on camera barking so it can show how were correcting the problem and getting them inside, but they haven't been barking much or at all and not loud at all. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 12:52:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZCOP: Having the neighbors show up in court as witnesses will help: Statements won't. I was ready to go to court for a renter neighbor who was getting harassed by other neighbors because of her dogs, because that's what it takes. She decided it was just as easy to pay the small fine, but the other neighbors also contacted the landlord, and they were going to evict them. i had to contact the home owner, who I knew before they moved to their new place, to let them know, it was all the new people moving in who were the problem. She wasn't evicted, and the neighbors who were complaining have either since moved on, or they are now persona non grata, and they know it. Jay Well the officer said to get a witness on our side to show up and the wife asked about written statements and he said that's a good idea also. Us getting the statements from all the neighbors also helps us with him trying to get someone on his side and he won't be able to because they are all already on our side. I didn't want to bother our neighbors with having to miss any work or take time out of their schedules to go to court with us, but I'll ask the neighbor on the other side of us and the lady and or daughters (who are also over18) across the alley to see if they can. They are the next closest neighbors to us. I also plan on getting all the reports of when the police were at our house over all this. It should show our dogs were never outside when they showed up. Hopefully. Well except for one time. Two were still outside and they weren't even barking and he never knew they were after I told him they're still outside and quiet. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 12:54:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ausher1880]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By uxo2: Going to be interesting if neighbor has video to present at Court showing your "" 5 minutes "" turns out to be 20mins I'm absolutely positive that our dogs don't bark for more than a few seconds. We are always out there with them or at least at the back door waiting for them to act up to get them in. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 1:14:42 PM EDT
[#17]
I thought if the cops don't witness the violation, they can't write the citation simply based upon the neighbors words?
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 4:43:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ausher1880]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ar15joe: I thought if the cops don't witness the violation, they can't write the citation simply based upon the neighbors words? I asked the police officer what's stoping him from saying they been barking all day when in fact they haven't? I said how is his word over rules my word? He pretty much said, because he's the one calling in the complaint. He even said he asked the neighbor on the other side about my dogs barking and they said yes they bark, but it's nothing to call the police over. I was like so basically what your saying is, dogs are not allowed to bark in city limits... He said if it causes a disturbance to someone they no, they can't. Then I said, what's stopping him from calling the police and just saying they are barking even if they are not? His go to answer whenever I stumped him was that's for the judge to decide.. I asked him what if I'm out there running a chainsaw cutting up wood all day? How is that ok but a barking dog isn't??? He couldn't give me an answer. Then I said what if I start mowing my lawn? He said well that required by law you have to mow the lawn. I work third shift and when my neighbor mows the lawn, yeah. It annoys me, but there's nothing I can do about that. Then I said, I don't need to mow my lawn right now tho, but I can and that's perfectly ok.... He was stumped again. Next day I was building gates and running this loud ass air compressor on my back patio for over two hours It's louder than any dog in the neighborhood and I didn't get a single complaint about that. But my dogs are the problem... I made a video of that because you can hear neighbors dogs barking in the background. I wanted to question the judge on how I can run an air compressor and he doesn't complain, but if my dog barks. Police show up.. I wish I recorded this conversation... |
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Posted: 3/14/2024 5:11:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Reason #87 why cats >>>>>>dogs.
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Posted: 3/14/2024 5:19:25 PM EDT
[#20]
You admit the dog barks because when it does, you take it inside. You know it barks yet you allow or permit it to be outside, knowing the dog barks. The law is quite specific in that it states allow or permit, and causes annoyance.
Our ordinance has a time frame, 5 minutes continually barking, or 10 minutes barking over an hour of time. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 5:24:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HotHolster: You admit the dog barks because when it does, you take it inside. You know it barks yet you allow or permit it to be outside, knowing the dog barks. The law is quite specific in that it states allow or permit, and causes annoyance. Our ordinance has a time frame, 5 minutes continually barking, or 10 minutes barking over an hour of time. I've been trying to get a definite answer about how long a dog can bark before it's in violation. The officer couldn't tell me that either. I was like is it one time? Five? A hundred? He pretty much said if it causes a disturbance to someone, it's a violation. Been trying to get ahold of a lawyer to explain this ordinance to me. Been waiting for a call back for the past three days. |
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Posted: 3/14/2024 5:36:52 PM EDT
[#22]
A long time ago I lived in a little house in a small town in rural Iowa. I got a puppy, a Walker coon hound that I named Elvis. Elvis was a pretty cool puppy but he barked a lot. I had a neighbor that hated me. However he had two young daughters that were probably 5 and 7 that would come into my backyard and play with Elvis on his lead. They were quite fond of him as they had no [pets of their own. One day I came home from work and their was a ticket on my door from the town cop that said I had to either get my dog to stop barking or get rid of him. They said I would receive a $50 ticket every day until the matter was resolved. I took Elvis back to the breeder who found him a good home. That night I dug a hole in my back yard, filled it back in, put up a little cross made out of 2x4's that said Elvis. The next day the little girl knocked on my door asking where Elvis was and I told her I had to get rid of him, because of her dad.
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LA, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 6:02:09 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ausher1880: How is it heresay? It's not us saying "out other neighbors aren't bothered by them" They all signed and dated a statement. You’ve not the slightest clue about hearsay, I see. Look it up. It’s classic hearsay. |
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Posted: 3/14/2024 6:28:23 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ausher1880: I've been trying to get a definite answer about how long a dog can bark before it's in violation. The officer couldn't tell me that either. I was like is it one time? Five? A hundred? He pretty much said if it causes a disturbance to someone, it's a violation. Been trying to get ahold of a lawyer to explain this ordinance to me. Been waiting for a call back for the past three days. Aren't laws amazing? Since most legislative members are lawyers, you can safely state that laws and ordinances are drafted by lawyers, read and discussed by lawyers, and approved by lawyers. Yet in many cases, those laws are ambiguous. I guess it means more money for lawyers when laws aren't black and white. |
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Posted: 3/14/2024 6:43:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cooper1: Idk. The ordinance says disturbance to any person. And I says it disturbs me. Therefore, I win. ''You're ugly and it disturbs me.'' Fix it. It has to at a reasonable point/level and not merely a few seconds of noise during a time when random noises are to be expected. 2AM, sure, that's disturbing, 5 seconds at 3PM because kids got off the bus screaming and playing, not so much. |
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Posted: 3/14/2024 6:53:44 PM EDT
[#26]
ARF is usually all “neighbor dogs barking are worthy of burning that mofo’s house down” yet here we are giving tactical legal advice to help OP.
I’m so confused. Do we hate barking neighbor dogs or not? |
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Posted: 3/14/2024 6:54:58 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ausher1880: But what would be considered a "serious disturbance or annoyance"? Saying, "hey my neighbors dogs disturbs me!" Is that really a serious disturbance? Whelp, that’s gonna be a question for a judge or jury. Spin the wheel, don’t bust the deal. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 6:57:23 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fxntime: It has to at a reasonable point/level and not merely a few seconds of noise during a time when random noises are to be expected. 2AM, sure, that's disturbing, 5 seconds at 3PM because kids got off the bus screaming and playing, not so much. That's basically what they are doing. And it's usually 3pm to 6pm they bark. They hear noises in the ally from kids walking home from school and people in the cars getting home from work. They never bark past 8pm when the wife lets them out at night. Usually a few seconds, we get them to stop and get inside. Never continuous. And I cannot get a definite answer on what is considered continuous from the officer and I haven't heard back from a lawyer yet. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 6:58:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FredMan: Whelp, that’s gonna be a question for a judge or jury. Spin the wheel, don’t bust the deal. I plan on asking the judge this. Quote the ordinance and ask him/her what's considered continuous, and or habitual and what's considered severe. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 7:03:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jagdkommando: A long time ago I lived in a little house in a small town in rural Iowa. I got a puppy, a Walker coon hound that I named Elvis. Elvis was a pretty cool puppy but he barked a lot. I had a neighbor that hated me. However he had two young daughters that were probably 5 and 7 that would come into my backyard and play with Elvis on his lead. They were quite fond of him as they had no [pets of their own. One day I came home from work and their was a ticket on my door from the town cop that said I had to either get my dog to stop barking or get rid of him. They said I would receive a $50 ticket every day until the matter was resolved. I took Elvis back to the breeder who found him a good home. That night I dug a hole in my back yard, filled it back in, put up a little cross made out of 2x4's that said Elvis. The next day the little girl knocked on my door asking where Elvis was and I told her I had to get rid of him, because of her dad. I'm in north East Iowa, what town was this? |
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Posted: 3/15/2024 12:19:12 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jagdkommando: A long time ago I lived in a little house in a small town in rural Iowa. I got a puppy, a Walker coon hound that I named Elvis. Elvis was a pretty cool puppy but he barked a lot. I had a neighbor that hated me. However he had two young daughters that were probably 5 and 7 that would come into my backyard and play with Elvis on his lead. They were quite fond of him as they had no [pets of their own. One day I came home from work and their was a ticket on my door from the town cop that said I had to either get my dog to stop barking or get rid of him. They said I would receive a $50 ticket every day until the matter was resolved. I took Elvis back to the breeder who found him a good home. That night I dug a hole in my back yard, filled it back in, put up a little cross made out of 2x4's that said Elvis. The next day the little girl knocked on my door asking where Elvis was and I told her I had to get rid of him, because of her dad.  |
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Posted: 3/15/2024 5:21:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Homesteader375]
[#32]
I would take it to the judge and argue that the lack of more than one complainant makes this a private nuisance vs a public nuisance. I'd reference the appeals court ruling in Wayne Brant v. City of Indianapolis. While the Indianapolis ordinance was worded slightly differently and didn't conform to law, the premise was still laid out that one person complaining did not rise to the level of a public nuisance and could not be a violation under the equal protections clause. It would be very good for you to bring other neighbors to testify on your behalf.
ETA: well shit... as soon as I posted I realized my 5 AM eyes saw IN and not IA as your location. I'll keep looking. ETA2: so, I reckon I would essentially make the same argument without the citation. I mean, you could cite the case but it would probably not be accepted as precedence from a court in another state. Not a lawyer, btw. I just deal with a lot of laws, statutes, and legal opinion as part of my job. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/15/2024 9:05:49 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Homesteader375: I would take it to the judge and argue that the lack of more than one complainant makes this a private nuisance vs a public nuisance. I'd reference the appeals court ruling in Wayne Brant v. City of Indianapolis. While the Indianapolis ordinance was worded slightly differently and didn't conform to law, the premise was still laid out that one person complaining did not rise to the level of a public nuisance and could not be a violation under the equal protections clause. It would be very good for you to bring other neighbors to testify on your behalf. ETA: well shit... as soon as I posted I realized my 5 AM eyes saw IN and not IA as your location. I'll keep looking. ETA2: so, I reckon I would essentially make the same argument without the citation. I mean, you could cite the case but it would probably not be accepted as precedence from a court in another state. Not a lawyer, btw. I just deal with a lot of laws, statutes, and legal opinion as part of my job. You gave me some ideas on looking at the law in other towns near by. And see if I can get som info on similar cases. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/15/2024 9:09:11 AM EDT
[#34]
I got a notice in the mail. It's a call in guilty/not guilty. And it said Charles city vs. me. Not my neighbor. So if he doesn't have to be there it may help my argument I'm working on. I'm sure the office who has to be present will bring up how he could hear my dog barking from the sidewalk when she was inside. I'll bring up the citation was for my dog barking outside. I stumped him several times when he was at the house so I think I can do the same in court. He couldn't really answer any of my arguments when I questioned him. Kept saying it's up to the judge.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/15/2024 11:43:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Millennial]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ausher1880: I got a notice in the mail. It's a call in guilty/not guilty. And it said Charles city vs. me. Not my neighbor. So if he doesn't have to be there it may help my argument I'm working on. I'm sure the office who has to be present will bring up how he could hear my dog barking from the sidewalk when she was inside. I'll bring up the citation was for my dog barking outside. I stumped him several times when he was at the house so I think I can do the same in court. He couldn't really answer any of my arguments when I questioned him. Kept saying it's up to the judge. That's not "stumping him"  ... it IS up to the judge. The citation is based on the violation of a statute that that appears to be written verynarrowly applicable to dogs and dog owners. The police officer doesn't have to answer for anything deeper than he knows the statue exists, he observed or his investigation indicates the statute was seemingly violated, and a citation was issued. It doesn't matter if you own a chainsaw, or a lawn mower or whatever else... because the statute has zero to do with that. So at the very least, before going in front of a judge to argue your dog dindu nuffin with a strategy of "stumping" the judge by basing a large portion of your argument on "well what about all these other loud activities" ... you should probably read any/all city ordinances about such examples you plan to bring up. Because I'm SURE there's specific statues elsewhere in your city ordinances dealing with those kinds of nuisance activities along any specific exemptions. Keep in mind, the judge and town legal has probably sat through dozens if not hundreds of people disputing nuisance citations; meaning you're stepping into the ring with seasoned professionals. Read as much of the statutes as you can and maybe go search for similar issues in IA as you can. And just a tip... regarding your interactions with the responding officers that issued the citation, if you try to bring up anything the officer(s) did or said or responded during your discourse with them (ie: you're stumping him) that you interpreted as beneficial to your position, it pretty much gets tossed/ignored as hearsay. The citing officer's thoughts/actions on the matter, testified to in the third person, have no bearing on whether or not the statute was indeed violated. If the cop shows up at the hearing you'll have to get him to testify to his own thoughts/actions on the matter. |
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Posted: 3/15/2024 12:12:21 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Millennial: Keep in mind, the judge and town legal has probably sat through dozens if not hundreds of people disputing nuisance citations; meaning you're stepping into the ring seasoned professionals. This is not a foregone conclusion. About 6 months ago my wife and I lead an effort to stop a residential solar ordinance in our town. The town attorney had zero idea that the ordinance he signed off on was in direct conflict with well established state law. It's always worth mounting a strong defense. Don't assume that you're not smarter than the low paid public servant that works for you. |
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Posted: 3/15/2024 12:26:33 PM EDT
[#37]
Most police officers are wearing body cameras these days. Your conversation with the officer was probably recorded and can be obtained with FOIA request to that department. Not sure if that will help but you might as well get all the documentation you can.
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/15/2024 12:34:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ausher1880]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dahugo: You’ve not the slightest clue about hearsay, I see. Look it up. It’s classic hearsay. You're right. I don't. Im not a lawyer or ever had to go to court for anything to defend myself. All I know of hearsay, is from the johnny depp trial lol. That being said... What if I get the statements notarized? And the person who filed the complaint doesn't have to be present it's up to the city wether or not they want to bring in witnesses. So if anything that the officer says that the neighbor said will that also be considered heresay? |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/15/2024 12:45:19 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GraboidHunter: Most police officers are wearing body cameras these days. Your conversation with the officer was probably recorded and can be obtained with FOIA request to that department. Not sure if that will help but you might as well get all the documentation you can. Actually I was planning on getting it along with all the police reports of previous times they been out. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/15/2024 12:50:10 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Millennial: That's not "stumping him" ... it IS up to the judge. The citation is based on the violation of a statute that that appears to be written verynarrowly applicable to dogs and dog owners. The police officer doesn't have to answer for anything deeper than he knows the statue exists, he observed or his investigation indicates the statute was seemingly violated, and a citation was issued. It doesn't matter if you own a chainsaw, or a lawn mower or whatever else... because the statute has zero to do with that. So at the very least, before going in front of a judge to argue your dog dindu nuffin with a strategy of "stumping" the judge by basing a large portion of your argument on "well what about all these other loud activities" ... you should probably read any/all city ordinances about such examples you plan to bring up. Because I'm SURE there's specific statues elsewhere in your city ordinances dealing with those kinds of nuisance activities along any specific exemptions. Keep in mind, the judge and town legal has probably sat through dozens if not hundreds of people disputing nuisance citations; meaning you're stepping into the ring with seasoned professionals. Read as much of the statutes as you can and maybe go search for similar issues in IA as you can. And just a tip... regarding your interactions with the responding officers that issued the citation, if you try to bring up anything the officer(s) did or said or responded during your discourse with them (ie: you're stumping him) that you interpreted as beneficial to your position, it pretty much gets tossed/ignored as hearsay. The citing officer's thoughts/actions on the matter, testified to in the third person, have no bearing on whether or not the statute was indeed violated. If the cop shows up at the hearing you'll have to get him to testify to his own thoughts/actions on the matter. I'm assuming the officer who issued the citation has to be there. From what the judge told me today when I pled not guilty the person who called in the complaint doesn't have to be unless the city wants to bring in witnesses. If he isn't there,or the neighbor isn't there won't the city have a hard time providing im guilty? |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/15/2024 12:54:52 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ausher1880: I'm assuming the officer who issued the citation has to be there. From what the judge told me today when I pled not guilty the person who called in the complaint doesn't have to be unless the city wants to bring in witnesses. If he isn't there,or the neighbor isn't there won't the city have a hard time providing im guilty? I wonder if YOU could request he be there as a witness. If nothing else, just to inconvenience him - LOL. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/15/2024 12:58:30 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Millennial: I wonder if YOU could request he be there as a witness. If nothing else, just to inconvenience him - LOL. I think it helps me more if he wasn't there. But I hope the neighbors across the ally will come. All this heresay makes me wonder anything the officer says about what the neighbor claims would also be heresay? |
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Posted: 3/15/2024 1:07:03 PM EDT
[#43]
Does the ordnance define "frequent and habitual?" Most cities adopt a model ordnance which defines these things. Ours also has a provision that someone teasing a dog into barking is in violation of the ordnance, so that neighbors can't make a dog bark just to get the owners in trouble.
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/15/2024 1:10:28 PM EDT
[#44]
Seriously...from what you wrote, it sounds like your dogs are the problem.
Without hearing them and living there, I'm not sure how bad the issue is. I have had dogs and have neighbors with dogs. So, not an anti-dog guy. I once had a backyard neighbor (across a drainage ditch), in the next neighborhood over. I'd come home at odd times: 0200, maybe until 0400, exhausted and ready to sleep. My arrival would trigger their German shepherd to bark. For about 2+ hours. Also, I'd leave anytime from 2300 until 0600. My wife would stay awake for hours after that due to the same dog. Dog lived in their chain-link fenced backyard with an open man-door to the back of their garage. After a few months of this crap, I purchased some screaming bottle rockets. The types that emit an ear-piercing shriek while they fly and then go "bang!" Every time that dog would start aggressively barking at me, I'd fire one (or more) right at it. The best one? As it yelped, tail tucked under its balls, and ran back into the garage, one of my rockets ricocheted off the half-open door, into the garage. "Bang!" The barking stopped after that incident. When I moved, my next door neighbors all wanted my bottle-rockets. They thanked me for what I'd done to train that dog to stop barking. Maybe your dogs are the nuisance that my neighbor's dog was. |
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Posted: 3/15/2024 3:38:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ausher1880: Well the officer said to get a witness on our side to show up and the wife asked about written statements and he said that's a good idea also. If that Cop was going to judge you in the court, then you might be O.K., because he's the one who told you that's a good idea, but he's not: A judge is going to. You can check with the judge, I don't know if that means asking for a hearing, hiring an attorney to be able to ask for a hearing, I don't know your state, your town, your court or your judge. 87% of Cops have no idea how the courts work in their jurisdictions. 99% when it involves Civil courts. I'm on your side of this, but you have to do a little leg work to know what the court wants or will accept. Jay |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/15/2024 4:26:19 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sgtlmj: Does the ordnance define "frequent and habitual?" Most cities adopt a model ordnance which defines these things. Ours also has a provision that someone teasing a dog into barking is in violation of the ordnance, so that neighbors can't make a dog bark just to get the owners in trouble. No it doesn't. I'm trying to get a lawyer to answer the definition of this ordinance. There is no set amount of time on how long a dog can bark for. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/15/2024 4:30:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ausher1880]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By c3k: Seriously...from what you wrote, it sounds like your dogs are the problem. Without hearing them and living there, I'm not sure how bad the issue is. I have had dogs and have neighbors with dogs. So, not an anti-dog guy. I once had a backyard neighbor (across a drainage ditch), in the next neighborhood over. I'd come home at odd times: 0200, maybe until 0400, exhausted and ready to sleep. My arrival would trigger their German shepherd to bark. For about 2+ hours. Also, I'd leave anytime from 2300 until 0600. My wife would stay awake for hours after that due to the same dog. Dog lived in their chain-link fenced backyard with an open man-door to the back of their garage. After a few months of this crap, I purchased some screaming bottle rockets. The types that emit an ear-piercing shriek while they fly and then go "bang!" Every time that dog would start aggressively barking at me, I'd fire one (or more) right at it. The best one? As it yelped, tail tucked under its balls, and ran back into the garage, one of my rockets ricocheted off the half-open door, into the garage. "Bang!" The barking stopped after that incident. When I moved, my next door neighbors all wanted my bottle-rockets. They thanked me for what I'd done to train that dog to stop barking. Maybe your dogs are the nuisance that my neighbor's dog was. I can see if more than one neighbor complained, but it's just one neighbor. Me and my wife spoke to every neighbor on our block, across our alley in back and across the street in the front. Every neighbor said our dogs wasn't a problem. And the only dogs they ever had an issue with was his and his wife's dogs. She divorced him and took the dogs about two years ago. Our dogs don't bark for hours on end. Not even for more than a minute. They never have. With the police, it's basically our word against his. An officer has been over to our house 6 times because of this and every time they came, our dogs are already in the house. I plan on getting the police reports of every time they been at our house. Our neighbor is the one being the nuisance. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/15/2024 4:39:24 PM EDT
[#48]
We are going through the same thing.
Except we are the neighbors sick and tired of the fucking dog barking directly at us, our house, or ANYTHING that is on our side of the fence. If I could shoot that fucking dog and get away with it that fucker would be dead. It has completely ruined our friendship with the neighbor and I’m sure he tells all his friends that we are the problem. Get a shock collar for your dog. Teach the dog that barking every damn time you let it out to piss isn’t acceptable. Quit being “that” neighbor. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/15/2024 4:39:44 PM EDT
[#49]
Going with the neighbor for sure on this one. It is ALWAYS the dogs causing the problems and ALWAYS the owners in complete denial or are so selfishly unconcerned with anyone else to even register their dogs are causing others huge issues. Always. OP, no offense but you and your dogs are a problem, even if it's just one house. It could very well be the only house that can hear the full noise level of your dogs. If your city has a dog noise ordnance and your neighbor has evidence of you constantly breaking it he has every right to call the cops on you, and I would too in that situation. You have no idea how aggravating barking dogs are to neighbors. Hell that is why dog barking laws even exist in the first place, ignorant or selfish dog owners really causing grief to their neighbors. Get some open land away from neighbors if you want, but if you live in tight quarters then act appropriately and figure your dog noise problem out. And no, you don't see the issue based on everything you've posted so far. YOU are the problem here, no matter what you are thinking.
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Posted: 3/15/2024 4:49:34 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ausher1880: I'm in north East Iowa, what town was this? Ackley |
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