I've wanted to like mountain biking for quite some time.  It looks fun as hell and I've been riding on pavement since 1995, so bikes aren't something new to me.  

I took my first shot at mountain biking probably 8-9 years ago.  I did some research and located the  best consensus "beginner" trails and hauled my bike way the hell out there to give it a try.  The problem was that I was on a bike that was completely unsuited to the task.  Literally road bike geometry but with 40 mm tires.  I guess I thought the tires would make a difference.  It was not a fun experience.

A handful of years ago, I hauled a different bike, this one a legit MTB, to the nearest single-track to my house.  The problem this time was that although my bike was an MTB, it was nothing near modern MTB geometry, which based a few test rides, I find MUCH more confidence inspiring.  Also, the trails I chose this time are a favorite for experienced mountain bikers, and a bit overwhelming for a beginner.  

I'm giving it another shot in about 3 weeks and hoping the third time's a charm.  I've researched a good beginner trail system that is pretty close and I'm renting a modern MTB, a Trek Roscoe 8 or 9, I forget which.  Thankfully, I live in a city that is overflowing with bike shops, the gravel scene is huge in this region and there is a very active MTB community and lots of trails in the region.  Weather permitting, I ride more days than not, but I want to step it up to something more demanding and hopefully more fun.  

The bike on which I made my first attempt:

Attached File



2nd attempt (with knobbies):

Attached File



Third try will be this bike:

Attached File

You'll have fun with that rental. Looks like a great setup. I can't even believe you would try MTB trails on either of the first two, no wonder it didn't work out

Have fun and post some photos after the ride. Bike shops will often credit your demo price if you decide to purchase a bike from them.

Another idea for free/cheap demos is to find some bike manufacturers and check out their demo schedule on website or social media. They usually do a great job setting up the demo at a suitable trail system although I suspect demo season is winding down for the year by this point.

I'm really looking forward to it, after checking out the specs.  I've ridden my 1st gen Karate Monkey a lot and taken the current KM's for test rides and the new ones are magnitudes better, as far as geometry making the bike feel secure.  I've also never ridden a suspension fork and the 140mm of travel interests me.  Also, the Trek has a very high engagement rear hub, which is something I want on any bike going forward.  My current bike must have the lowest engagement possible, since the cranks rotate what seems like 2-3 cm before it engages.  Irritates the fuck out of me.

Looks like a trek Marlin.  If so, great choice!

My kids both race NICA and many of their teammates and coaches are on Marlins.

The bikes can handle all the punishment that 99% of us can dish out.  Compared to what you rode in the past, you’ll love the Trek.  

Let me know if you are looking for a deal on a bigger air fork; I know of a sale going on.

We ventured out to the lake last weekend and this weekend I hauled my bike out there, to try and get a little familiar with the area.  I got the scoop from a FB page for that lake, on where to ride and found both ends of the single track that was recommended to me.  I debated on whether to try it on my current bike, which is an off-road touring bike with 29'er slicks.  Geometry is road touring, rather than trail.  It's more designed for things like the Tour Divide route.  This was the third time I've tried single track and it was the first that I would really consider to be "beginner".  I only went 200 or so yards in, but it was pretty easy. It's still hard to imagine going thru there with any speed (I think I was going 8-9 mph), but I suppose experience and a more appropriate bike help there.  

This is the bike I rode today:

Attached File



A couple of shots taken in the woods:

Attached File



Attached File



A funky sculpture at the Western trailhead:

Attached File

My experience was about the opposite of yours. Last year I bought a bike for Christmas. My back is kind of messed up so I went all in on full suspension and got a giant stance 29 with good brakes, sram gears and a dropper.  The knobby tires suck on the road but so what, I was out and riding. About a month ago I ran into an old neighbor who told me about a bunch of legit trails I never knew existed right in our neighborhood. Since then I've been rocking those trails and finally figured out that my bike is really great on the trails.

If you like hardtails and liked the Roscoe, you might want to try a Trek FX carbon. Good for the trail or road, but it is a rigid fork. They do ride nice.

I rented and rode the Trek Roscoe 8 today and it was a success!  I enjoyed it a lot, even though I struggled in some areas, even on a beginner level track.  The biggest issue was the handling of the bike, which is completely different from what I'm used to.  The closest I came to crashing was at the first turn where my steering was so wobbly it probably looked like I was drunk.  It became more intuitive but even after 4 miles of single-track, I wasn't quite there.  

I learned a few things:

1) A suspension fork makes a HUGE difference.  I knew it would make A difference, but I didn't realize how much. A very high engagement hub was as big an improvement as I thought it would be.  I can see it not mattering on road/gravel, although I would still like to have it, but it's crucial on single-track.

2) Wider tires really help my confidence.  There were quite a few really sandy areas that were sketchy, even on 2.6" knobby tires.

3) It's a good idea to partner up with an experienced rider.  Nothing was marked and every time there was a "beginner/technical" fork in the trail, I took the technical one.  Every time.  The single-track also ended on the paved trail several times and you have to ride on pavement to find the next entrance to the single-track.  I didn't know that and rode one section twice, thinking I had missed a branch.  I still completely missed one section and I have no idea where the turnoff was that I missed, because I was looking for them and never saw that one.

4) I have decent intuitive basic off-road skills, even though I really haven't done it.  I instinctively kept my pedals up in the appropriate spots and used my rear brake effectively, rather than relying on the front brake.  I did lock up the rear coming down a steep hill and that made the pucker factor rise.  I'm not used to disk brakes.  I did fine on climbs and downhills were fun, even the steeper ones I would normally avoid.  I think the biggest thing I need to learn is to use body English more than the handlebars, to get the bike to go where I want it.  

All in all, I'm satisfied with the experience.  I learned a lot, had fun and still have enthusiasm for mountain biking, which wasn't the case after my previous failed attempts.  I might build my old Karate Monkey up as a rigid bike and take it out there to try.  Too bad the cost of entry to the sport is so high.  

The bike I rented:

Attached File

I advise new mtn bikers there are 4-5 common falls that you kinda need to biff out on until you gain handling skills

OTB
wash out
Stick suck derailleur wrap
tree focus lock
not lofting the front on a jump


being off the seat and using your knees and elbows as suspension is important, even with a full squish bike

Sounds like you had a blast! Glad you went out there and challenged yourself and had a great ride. If you continue the path we can get you up and running really well.

1) Forks are great, no question about it.
2) Wider tires are also great. The MTB community kinda ran the gamut in short order from 2.2 to 3.0+ fats and settled back in to 2.6 as a great option for most terrain and locales. Depending if you're tubeless or tubed you can run higher or lower pressures with further consideration.
3) Experienced guide is helpful but not requisite. Nothing wrong with going slow and checking your map (phone) often. If you don't have MTBproject app on your phone already, that's a great resource for real-time mapping. My favorite and most memorable rides were times I packed up and set off to discover new areas riding bike and grilling brats afterwards back at the trailhead or nearby campground.
4) Your off-road skills will continue to grow. Like the previous post mentions some of the most important items are braking, avoiding pedal strikes, and avoiding target fixation.

That gets you to 80% of your local trails and rides. A forked hardtail is probably the most versatile bike out there. Totally suitable for beach boardwalk family rides and you can get a bit gnarly on it too. Bikepacking and lift-assist riding are both possible with a hardtail too.

I'm now starting my preliminary research into purchasing a hardtail MTB.  I rented and rode a Trek Roscoe 8 and test rode a Giant Talon 1.  I've discovered that the big brands have hardtails in two major categories that I think of as XC and Trail.  The XC bikes are less expensive with less aggressive geometry (ie, Giant Talon, Trek Marlin, Specialized Rockhopper) and the trail bikes, which are more expensive with more aggressive geometry (ie, Trek Roscoe, Giant Fathom, etc..).  I liked the way the Giant Talon (XC) rode, but really like the component spec of the Roscoe (Trail).  For XC, I'm leaning toward the Trek Marlin, based solely on published stats, with Specialized Rockhopper being second.  I plan to test ride both of those, along with the Salsa Rangefinder, in the near future.

ETA on 11/4/2023:  After riding a handful of bikes (Trek Roscoe 8, Trek Marlin, Giant Talon, Surly Karate Monkey (rigid), a Cannondale and a Salsa Timberjack, the Timberjack is at the top of the list, by a large margin.  I even asked about financing and went home and got that in place.  Now I just have to convince myself to actually pull the trigger on a $2500 bike.  

Salsa Timberjack 29 XT

Attached File

Still dreaming of buying and riding a hardtail, but can't convince myself to take the plunge on a $2500 or even a $2000 bike.  

I got everything set up today to strip down my off-road touring bike to move everything over to my old generation 1 Karate Monkey, but decided against it at the last minute.  The KM isn't that different than what I have now and for the cost of getting that to a bare minimum of where I want to be, I could just buy a new bike like a Marlin, Talon, Rangefinder, etc...

I had my heart set on something in the Roscoe/Timberjack/Fathom range, but have now dialed back my expectations and will start looking at the lower level hardtails in the $900-1500 range.  It seems most shops only have the lower priced models or the higher priced ones, with none of the shops I've visited having both, for back-to-back comparisons.  It's frustrating because it seems like I can spend <$1500 and get a decent, but not really upgradeable (ie, QR, non-boost, etc..) bike or I can spend $2000-2500 for the entry level where I hope to eventually be.

I am off next week and will spend some time hitting local shops and venturing outside the Trek/Salsa/Giant/Specialized world and see what I can find in the smaller brands.

The Cannondale Habit HT is a another pretty cool hardtail, long reach, slack headtube, pretty progressive geometry. Worth looking into.
Attached File


My humble opinion is to wait and spend the money on the more expensive bike, it'll be worth it. Also it's worth considering a low end FS rig once your into the $2k range anyway. The entry level Giant Trance, or Cannondale Habit are both good, budget suspension bikes. I don't know what you want to do, terrain wise but FS is life changing.
 
 I also keep hearing that inflation has really hurt the hardtail market.

Just food for thought.

Attached File

Attached File

absolutely this.

here's the thing, if you buy a bike you aren't 100% happy with, then you start changing parts, piece by piece till you have the bike your happy with and you spent a lot of money on parts now sitting in a box.

another option is buy a nice frame, something well built and good quality.. then buy the parts you want and build it. if you can assemble an AR a bike is nothing and a shop can install the stuff you might not have tools for. Its easier pill to swallow than dropping 2500 at once, and you get to pick exactly what you want.

I keep hearing that the current market is brutal for the bike industry, across the board, but you'd never guess that from looking at the financing options being offered.  I can buy a $2000 guitar at no interest, paid out over 24, 36 or even 48 months.  A $2000 bike might get zero interest for 12 months and then 29.99% for the remainder of the 24 or 36 month loan.  For me, the whole point is that being able to make big ticket purchases and spread the payments over several year has allowed me to buy things I would not have bought, otherwise.  

Also, I'm finding that most of the local bike shops, and we have quite a few, only carry <$1000 hardtails, with some maxing out in the $700'ish price range.  Makes it really hard to test ride the ones I'm interested in.

Brutal for the industry is good for us though, bikes are cheaper than they were a couple years ago. Specialized has been blowing bikes out. You can get a Stumpjumper for $2800, Cannondale Habit starts at like $2300. A Trance is right in there too. I don't know that you could have ever gotten more for your money. I've been close to snatching up a SJ just because.
 Pretty much those and monster energy drink are the only things that haven't doubled in cost these past couple years.
 Hardtails are tough for retailers because there's just not much profit after shipping and assembly on a entry level bike, but that's what bike shops tend to sell a lot of.  

With all that being said, yes, money is expensive right now.

What's the ultimate goal for you? Distance on mixed surfaces? Technical terrain/Skill development?  

Love my Roscoe 8. I prefer hardtails. Guess I’m just old school.  My last full sqish was a trek Y frame back in the early 90s.

From my research here locally, the two best financing options I've found are Specialized dealers, although I don't know if said financing is thru and for Specialized or something the shops themselves have in place that may or may not be usable for Specialized bikes.

Comparing specs, it seems that Specialized and Salsa offer less value for the money and the Trek Roscoe 8 seems surprisingly good, as far as value for money.  We only have one Giant dealer, which surprises me, and all they carry are lower level hardtails.  They offered to order a Fathom, if I would put down a deposit with the option to back out and get the full deposit back, but I declined.

 Just to illustrate my level of riding and confidence, I currently consider this trail to be beyond my skill or willingness to try, but I can see myself getting there.  More technical than that, I have no idea.  No real aspirations right now, but once I'm comfortable on a trail like this, who knows?  

My immediate goal is to go out to beginner trails, both to have fun and to build my skills on a confidence inspiring bike.  I like the idea of building up to trails that are more technical than the ones I rode on a rental Roscoe (and these were very mild, just a few small roots and rocks, with the major learning curve being just getting the bike to go where I wanted it to), but I have no aspirations to ride really technical trails with medium-to-large obstacles and jumps.  As a beginner, I have no idea how accurate my perceptions are of what constitutes technical and level of technicality for terrain.  I am also right at the weight limit (rider + bike) of 300 lbs, that most hardtails seem to have, so thicker stanchions and better brakes are considerations.  Again, based on what I've read and seen in videos, rather than experience.

Just to illustrate my level of riding and confidence, I currently consider this trail to be beyond my skill or willingness to try, but I can see myself getting there.  More technical than that, I have no idea.  No real aspirations right now, but once I'm comfortable on a trail like this, who knows?  I don't consider the trail in this video to be all that technical, just beyond what I would currently tackle, on any bike.

Ok. First of all, with practice and skill you can ride almost anything almost anywhere. Almost.  The flip side of that is that gear and technology can compensate for and enhance skill greatly.

I keep harping on the FS platforms for that reason but also because you already have some touring/gravel ish bikes in your quiver already.
 Not to say that a hardtail isn't capable, and really rigid and hardtail bikes are great for skill development. They force you to learn how to work the bike through terrain, how to interpret how terrain is going to impact your forward motion and how to react to it, more so than a FS.

 So for starters, I would be putting the burliest tires I had on that KM, (or whichever of your bikes your the most confident on) and dabbling with some light trails, and some balance/trials exercises.
 Drop the saddle, work on your track stands, from there you can start to learn how to lift the front of the bike up and into the direction your falling towards, and eventually the rear also, to keep from having to put a foot down to catch yourself.
 This will do multiple things, build balance and cardio, develop reflex, help you understand how to throw your weight around and get you quick at getting that foot down, all of which will translate into technical riding skills, uphill and downhill.
It costs nothing, you can do it in your backyard or driveway, parking lot, whatever.
 Might sound lame, but fundamental trials skills will make you a better MTBr.
 Is there a pump track near you?  That's another good thing to play around on.  

And yeah, no doubt you'll be able to ride that trail on an MTB, it's just a matter of practice and effort.

Sorry for the thread takeover... I'm a dork with this shit.

You're in good company!  

I think it's a totally normal thing (at least for guys) to totally nerd out on hobbies.

I spent the morning visiting shops and test riding bikes and today I tried the Trek X-Caliber 9, Trek Roscoe 6 (TOTALLY different bike than the 8, just shares a name), a Specialized Fuze Sport 27.5, the trusty old Roscoe 8 in the large size and although I almost didn't do it, I rode a Roscoe 8 in Extra-Large and that is the one.  Without question.  It fit me like a glove, the handling was completely intuitive and everything about it just felt "right".  The large Roscoe I rented several weeks ago and the one I test rode today didn't feel quite right, although it worked well enough.  

I feel like for the price point, the Roscoe is the best value as far as components go and if the dealer gets the financing program he told me about in place, it's a done deal, for me.  Might be, regardless of that financing option.

Go for the Roscoe.  Not sure why they’re so expensive these days, but it’s a great all around mountain bike.

You'll do well with the Roscoe. It is a fully capable bike that will progress with you. Have fun!

Bought today!  This is not the one I posted earlier.  That was a rental in the large size and mine is an XL.

Attached File

Nice! Congratulations, that's sweet!!!

Now get out and give that girl hell! No excuses!

What did that end up costing if you don't mind me asking?

$1839 plus tax.  MSRP is $2399, Trek has them listed at $1999 and one shop here has them for $1899.  Since I rented that Large Roscoe last month, they applied that $60 to the purchase of this bike.  

So far, I am loving it!!  This is a whole new world for me, both as far as the style of riding and the bike itself.  It's been raining here lately, and trails are closed, so I've had to be content with riding around the neighborhood.  Also, we have a freaking strong North wind that makes it pretty miserable to be on a bike.  I've been watching videos on fork adjustments.

Nice bike! You can do anything with that. Modest road riding, urban trails/parks, forest roads, true trails. I raced the Sea Otter Classic on hardtail a handful of years ago. I wouldn't recommend it, and didn't place well, but it can be done

Enjoy the ride!

um, if she can handle that trail, you will be fine

she was not doing anything that required advanced skills, but she whined a lot