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Now fellate me, as I eat this expensive ham.
USA
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The Rolex copies are so good that Chinese companies are doing knock offs of the Chinenese companies that produce the super clones
VSF and Clean Factory make the best copies. Recently people have started to receive COA's with their fakes Attached File |
Look, yes, I have banged HUNDREDS of broads. INTERNATIONALLY. But know this - I wrap my rascal, TWO TIMES, cuz I like it to be joyless and without sensation. It's a way of punishing supermodels.
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Originally Posted By The_Master_Shake: The Rolex copies are so good that Chinese companies are doing knock offs of the Chinenese companies that produce the super clones VSF and Clean Factory make the best copies. Recently people have started to receive COA's with their fakes https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/132893/someone-got-this-from-instagram-seller-v-3176872.JPG View Quote Holy Shit fakes of fakes? A day late to be April Fool’s! |
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The duty of a patriot is to protect his nation from its government.
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" |
Can we get a pic of the lug bars? I’m trying to play which is the fake with a buddy
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Now fellate me, as I eat this expensive ham.
USA
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Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Holy Shit fakes of fakes? A day late to be April Fool’s! View Quote I think it's legit as it keeps getting posted on RepTime I was in Bangkok the other week looking for a good clone, but I don't have the experience or eye many here do, so I'll probably order one online from a "reputable" dealer |
Look, yes, I have banged HUNDREDS of broads. INTERNATIONALLY. But know this - I wrap my rascal, TWO TIMES, cuz I like it to be joyless and without sensation. It's a way of punishing supermodels.
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I'm betting the Left is the fake. Something just doesn't look quite right about the bezel. That's scary how identical they are though.
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Surprised they could copy it that quick. It hasn't even been around that long.
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Ludwig Boltzmann, who spent much of his life studying statistical mechanics, died in 1906, by his own hand, Paul Bhranfest, carrying on the work, died similarly in 1933, Now it is our turn to study statistical mechanics...
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Judging by the strap only, I'm guessing the left is real as the 7 rows of stitching looks OEM. That said the Chinese probably stole the looms from the monks on the mountain in France whereTudor straps were made.
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Make crime illegal
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I'd say the one on the left is fake. Knurling on the bezel on the right looks more refined and sharper. Quality of the strap and clasp look better quality. The watch on the left has a fog about the entire thing. Man I hope I'm right.
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There are more reps on eBay than in a Chinese warehouse. They like the commission earned on fakes.
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never underestimate the stupidity of other people
GA, USA
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I own a pelagos, and I'm looking at it now. I can't tell which is fake by just the picture. I would guess the left is real because of the symmetry in the velcro, but that's a huge jump. And the clones may be better than the real ones.
that said, where does one get a fake like this? My 8 year old can rock an upgrade from his seiko |
"every exercise is a low back exercise if you do it wrong enough"
@MacManus |
I'm guessing left is fake. Minute hand just appears to be in slightly wrong position relative to where second hand is. Could just be the picture angle.
With that said, I like the strap on the left better. The right strap looks fancier. |
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The right one looks like the fake to me. The Pelagos lettering lacks depth. That could also just be the angle of the photo though.
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SAF Life Member-GOA Life Member-JPFO Charter Member-MSF Life Member
FPC Member-VCDL Member-BFA Member-NRA Benefactor Life Member Sir RobertL, Charter Member of the Knights of Wonder |
forum premature post
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The duty of a patriot is to protect his nation from its government.
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" |
The left is the fake, and yes Robert, the angle probably mislead some folks. Putting them side by side and getting both framed perfectly was a challenge.
With reference to some of the other questions... I did not know there were fakes on eBay still. I thought they cleaned that up long ago. As to where to get, there are websites but you roll the dice and take your chances I guess. Not worth the risk. Facebook Marketplace is also full of sellers, probably preferable, and major cities will have a "China Town" where the fake market flourishes in watches, hand bags, shoes, sunglasses, etc. I have a friend in NYC who says it is alive and well. His wife has a handbag fetish and she said the high end fakes are near indistinguishable as well. As soon as companies roll out a security feature, the Chinese duplicate it. I saw one video on youTube where the laser etched coronet on Rolex crystals was actually clearer on the fake than the original. I'm not big on reps, but seeing as this was a completely new design for me (fixed lugs) I acquired one to see if I liked how it wore. I liked it so much I promptly laid out the money for the real deal and I'm glad I did. The replica will be relegated to wearing in areas where I'm afraid of damaging the real one or where an urban resident might try to liberate it. The replica is surprisingly good in build quality and sports a Miyota movement, so unlike a lot of fakes with questionable Chinese mass produced movements, this one should actually last awhile and a replacement movement can be sourced readily and inexpensively should it shit the bed. I hesitated to make this thread because admitting I bought a replica here is opening one up to ridicule, but making a $4,000 investment in a new design which you're not sure you'll like was too much of a gamble for me. When I saw how close in appearance they were, I felt it important to do a comparison to make sure folks don't get taken. I've seen watch boxes and booklets for sale on eBay, and it wouldn't be hard to package the replica up and pass it off as real. Someone asked for a picture of the lugs, I'll upload one later today. |
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The duty of a patriot is to protect his nation from its government.
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" |
The duty of a patriot is to protect his nation from its government.
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" |
The strap on the fake looks better than the genuine one, so that threw me at first. The Pelagos logo on the fake is obviously not right compared to the genuine watch, and the fake bezel looks off. Otherwise, the fake is pretty good.
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Oiling bolt, loading magazines....
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Originally Posted By HiramRanger: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/218/C22E845B-EB10-437B-940F-220F428EC540-3177075.jpg View Quote |
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Make crime illegal
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Nice.
I forgot to wear a watch today. Now I feel nekid. |
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Preferred pronoun: MARINE
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Originally Posted By IDidThat: is the left fake? There is a noticeable difference in the corners of lug holes for the strap. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By IDidThat: Originally Posted By HiramRanger: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/218/C22E845B-EB10-437B-940F-220F428EC540-3177075.jpg Yes, the left is the fake. |
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The duty of a patriot is to protect his nation from its government.
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" |
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: I'm not at all a fan of the olive velcro strap as I wear flannels a lot and the exposed velcro tends to collect flannel fluff. I purchased a few aftermarket single pass buckle straps that I really like. The nice thing about the FXD design is changing straps is effortless. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/218/60F10E02-FB42-4A9E-9F59-8687D5ABE7D3-3177074.jpg View Quote They really shine on an Erika’s. To me, it’s the ultimate strap for that watch. |
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SAF Life Member-GOA Life Member-JPFO Charter Member-MSF Life Member
FPC Member-VCDL Member-BFA Member-NRA Benefactor Life Member Sir RobertL, Charter Member of the Knights of Wonder |
Originally Posted By RobertL: They really shine on an Erika’s. To me, it’s the ultimate strap for that watch. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/67156/IMG_6369-3138530.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/67156/IMG_6256-3105678.jpg View Quote I'm considering picking one up. I just spent $175 for a couple of Speedmaster Professional links so I'm going to be a good boy for awhile. I agree, great straps. |
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The duty of a patriot is to protect his nation from its government.
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" |
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: I'm not big on reps, but seeing as this was a completely new design for me (fixed lugs) I acquired one to see if I liked how it wore. I liked it so much I promptly laid out the money for the real deal and I'm glad I did. The replica will be relegated to wearing in areas where I'm afraid of damaging the real one or where an urban resident might try to liberate it. The replica is surprisingly good in build quality and sports a Miyota movement, so unlike a lot of fakes with questionable Chinese mass produced movements, this one should actually last awhile and a replacement movement can be sourced readily and inexpensively should it shit the bed. I hesitated to make this thread because admitting I bought a replica here is opening one up to ridicule, but making a $4,000 investment in a new design which you're not sure you'll like was too much of a gamble for me. When I saw how close in appearance they were, I felt it important to do a comparison to make sure folks don't get taken. I've seen watch boxes and booklets for sale on eBay, and it wouldn't be hard to package the replica up and pass it off as real. View Quote I suspected the left, lettering just seemed not as sharp, but damn close. Where did you purchase it at? I have a Wimbledon Datejust and have been thinking of Tudor as I cant justify the price and wait for a new Rolex, and am too nervous to purchase a used one for the reasons you mentioned. I wouldnt mind a super clone like this for the reasons you mentioned as well. Thanks |
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I sincerely hope you wouldn't get any flak here for posting your fake. I'd say us Gun & Watch Nerds are more laid back than Watch Nerds Only on other forums. We've all laid out too much money on multiple hobbies.
Thanks for the warning and the interesting post. It's good to see this forum getting some more activity. |
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Originally Posted By CopyRepairMan007: I sincerely hope you wouldn't get any flak here for posting your fake. I'd say us Gun & Watch Nerds are more laid back than Watch Nerds Only on other forums. We've all laid out too much money on multiple hobbies. Thanks for the warning and the interesting post. It's good to see this forum getting some more activity. View Quote I get that for some they feel the sacrifice and accomplishment their luxury watch represents are diminished by fakes. Fair enough. I’ve owned a few over the years. Always told people they were fake when asked about the watch. Always purchased when considering buying the genuine to make sure it was for me. Nearly every time I ended up purchasing the real deal as I did in this case. |
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The duty of a patriot is to protect his nation from its government.
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" |
never underestimate the stupidity of other people
GA, USA
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Originally Posted By CopyRepairMan007: I sincerely hope you wouldn't get any flak here for posting your fake. I'd say us Gun & Watch Nerds are more laid back than Watch Nerds Only on other forums. We've all laid out too much money on multiple hobbies. Thanks for the warning and the interesting post. It's good to see this forum getting some more activity. View Quote Too much money! Reported for personal attack Attached File Originally Posted By HiramRanger: I get that for some they feel the sacrifice and accomplishment their luxury watch represents are diminished by fakes. Fair enough. I’ve owned a few over the years. Always told people they were fake when asked about the watch. Always purchased when considering buying the genuine to make sure it was for me. Nearly every time I ended up purchasing the real deal as I did in this case. View Quote I’ve never owned a decent fake but do have an homage Seiko that looks like a rootbeer. I wanted to try the look before I considered a real version. Glad I did because it turns out I don’t like the magnifier or the GMT hand. I assume most of the higher end watches I see in real life are fake or clones. Older guy with his shit together in a pressed shirt having dinner in the $200/plate restaurant I’m in with him? Yeah thinking that two tone sub is legit. Yesterday I saw our janitor at work pushing a dumpster with a solid yellow gold sub. Assuming it’s fake. I don’t care and it’s cool to see people rock what they want, but follow some of the reptime or chinatime reddits and you will find clones of $45 watches are everywhere, so obviously much of the higher end is out there too. |
"every exercise is a low back exercise if you do it wrong enough"
@MacManus |
Interesting post OP, thank you.
I bought my BB58 back when they were difficult to get. Purchased from “watchshopping” (or something like that) I subsequently read some less than stellar reviews and was worried I’d been had but my watch has been to RSC so I guess I got lucky. |
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Happiness is the greatest agent of purification
Bikini Bottoms underneath, but the boys hearts still skip a beat, when them girls shimmy off, them old cut offs |
What's the price difference between the copy and the real one? What's case size on that watch?
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Originally Posted By crashburnrepeat: What's the price difference between the copy and the real one? What's case size on that watch? View Quote 42mm case size. Suggested retail on the real FXD is $4,150 I believe and the fake is around $450. A little pricey, but there weren't many options to get a sense for how this watch would wear. I found something called "Tactical Frog" which looked to be close to the FXD but hard to tell. I wanted to make sure that I got as close to a sense of how it would wear as possible. Pricey for sure for a fake, but like I said I'll still use it for situations where I don't feel comfortable wearing the real one. And I picked up the real one off Chrono24 for $3,400 NIB with full warranty, so even with the cost of the fake factored in I'm still below what a new one would cost at an AD and the one Jomashop had for $4,150 only had a one year Jomashop warranty. |
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The duty of a patriot is to protect his nation from its government.
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" |
Where do they sell all these super fakes as such? I’ve seen them sold as the real deal but I guess I haven’t seen them sold openly as fakes before.
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“ Well, it feels like someone took a rubber band and snapped it right on the edge of your anus.” -JThompson
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Originally Posted By Sierra5: Where do they sell all these super fakes as such? I’ve seen them sold as the real deal but I guess I haven’t seen them sold openly as fakes before. View Quote Like I said, NYC (and I assume others) will have a "China Town" where all kinds of counterfeit goods are sold. I see them listed on Facebook rather openly with sponsored content. Facebook apparently doesn't give a shit as the money is green. There are forums out there like ARFCOM for this interest. Somebody posted previously about one called Reptime but I have never been there. Reddit also has forums dedicated to "Chinese Watches" and I'm pretty sure they are openly sold there. Do a search for replica watches on Google and your Facebook feed will no doubt fill with them! |
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The duty of a patriot is to protect his nation from its government.
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" |
Here is the article our counsel sent me on the abundance of fake watches on the market.
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The duty of a patriot is to protect his nation from its government.
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" |
I'm not a watch guy at all but I've wanted a Rolex GMT Master II Red/Blue since I became a pilot. When I upgraded to Captain, that was my "present" to myself for achieving the position... I've been on the AD "list" for a while. Not being a watch or jewelry customer, I don't think I'll ever get the call. I refuse to pay the grey market price and the thought of spending all that money to end up with a fake makes me sick to my stomach. I may never get the watch but that's better than the alternative to me.
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IYAOYAS
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never underestimate the stupidity of other people
GA, USA
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Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Like I said, NYC (and I assume others) will have a "China Town" where all kinds of counterfeit goods are sold. I see them listed on Facebook rather openly with sponsored content. Facebook apparently doesn't give a shit as the money is green. There are forums out there like ARFCOM for this interest. Somebody posted previously about one called Reptime but I have never been there. Reddit also has forums dedicated to "Chinese Watches" and I'm pretty sure they are openly sold there. Do a search for replica watches on Google and your Facebook feed will no doubt fill with them! View Quote You can find homages and straight up fakes: R/Reptime R/chinesewatches also "jason" from AliExpress is typically a solid source. |
"every exercise is a low back exercise if you do it wrong enough"
@MacManus |
Originally Posted By steviesterno16: You can find homages and straight up fakes: R/Reptime R/chinesewatches also "jason" from AliExpress is typically a solid source. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By steviesterno16: Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Like I said, NYC (and I assume others) will have a "China Town" where all kinds of counterfeit goods are sold. I see them listed on Facebook rather openly with sponsored content. Facebook apparently doesn't give a shit as the money is green. There are forums out there like ARFCOM for this interest. Somebody posted previously about one called Reptime but I have never been there. Reddit also has forums dedicated to "Chinese Watches" and I'm pretty sure they are openly sold there. Do a search for replica watches on Google and your Facebook feed will no doubt fill with them! You can find homages and straight up fakes: R/Reptime R/chinesewatches also "jason" from AliExpress is typically a solid source. "Jason"... I can't help but envision a little Asian man in a trench coat outside Grand Central Station... |
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The duty of a patriot is to protect his nation from its government.
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" |
Originally Posted By Magoo6541: I'm not a watch guy at all but I've wanted a Rolex GMT Master II Red/Blue since I became a pilot. When I upgraded to Captain, that was my "present" to myself for achieving the position... I've been on the AD "list" for a while. Not being a watch or jewelry customer, I don't think I'll ever get the call. I refuse to pay the grey market price and the thought of spending all that money to end up with a fake makes me sick to my stomach. I may never get the watch but that's better than the alternative to me. View Quote Stick to people like DavidSW, Chrono24, Bob's watches, et cetera. Buy the seller not the watch. The whole point of this thread it to avoid situations like you describe. Don't want to see anybody taken. I don't give two shits if somebody wants to wear a fake, I just don't want anybody to buy a fake thinking it is the real thing like the customer from the AD in my other thread that bought a knockoff Sky-Dweller thinking it was real. Spending $3k on a watch is a lot for me, and losing that would crush me. Couldn't imagine losing $15k. Trusted sellers of legit watches and websites which guarantee authenticity and have an escrow service. Only way to go. |
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The duty of a patriot is to protect his nation from its government.
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" |
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: 42mm case size. Suggested retail on the real FXD is $4,150 I believe and the fake is around $450. A little pricey, but there weren't many options to get a sense for how this watch would wear. I found something called "Tactical Frog" which looked to be close to the FXD but hard to tell. I wanted to make sure that I got as close to a sense of how it would wear as possible. Pricey for sure for a fake, but like I said I'll still use it for situations where I don't feel comfortable wearing the real one. And I picked up the real one off Chrono24 for $3,400 NIB with full warranty, so even with the cost of the fake factored in I'm still below what a new one would cost at an AD and the one Jomashop had for $4,150 only had a one year Jomashop warranty. View Quote Years ago in college I bought a fake watch, it was terrible. I didn't realize there were high end fakes. I like the watch but don't want a brand fake. They should just write "dive watch" on it and sell it like that..I would buy one |
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Originally Posted By crashburnrepeat: Years ago in college I bought a fake watch, it was terrible. I didn't realize there were high end fakes. I like the watch but don't want a brand fake. They should just write "dive watch" on it and sell it like that..I would buy one View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By crashburnrepeat: Originally Posted By HiramRanger: 42mm case size. Suggested retail on the real FXD is $4,150 I believe and the fake is around $450. A little pricey, but there weren't many options to get a sense for how this watch would wear. I found something called "Tactical Frog" which looked to be close to the FXD but hard to tell. I wanted to make sure that I got as close to a sense of how it would wear as possible. Pricey for sure for a fake, but like I said I'll still use it for situations where I don't feel comfortable wearing the real one. And I picked up the real one off Chrono24 for $3,400 NIB with full warranty, so even with the cost of the fake factored in I'm still below what a new one would cost at an AD and the one Jomashop had for $4,150 only had a one year Jomashop warranty. Years ago in college I bought a fake watch, it was terrible. I didn't realize there were high end fakes. I like the watch but don't want a brand fake. They should just write "dive watch" on it and sell it like that..I would buy one Fair point, and I agree. The only other watch I saw in this style was labeled “Tactical Frog.” Hard pass! |
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The duty of a patriot is to protect his nation from its government.
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" |
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Fair point, and I agree. The only other watch I saw in this style was labeled “Tactical Frog.” Hard pass! View Quote Yeah, strange brand names are quite common on Aliexpress watches. "Berny", "Bliger", "Benyar", "Mysterious Code", "Heimdallr", "Parnis", "Seestern", "Tactical Frog", etc! The chinese still haven't figured out how to market to an American audience. Despite the odd name, the "Tactical Frog" watches appear to be very good quality for their price point. Seiko NH35 movement, sapphire crystal, etc. Not bad for $179. Aliexpress Tactical Frog Attached File Attached File $4000 Tudor FXD v $200 Tactical Frog - How Close Does The Homage Get? |
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Originally Posted By pctech: Yeah, strange brand names are quite common on Aliexpress watches. "Berny", "Bliger", "Benyar", "Mysterious Code", "Heimdallr", "Parnis", "Seestern", "Tactical Frog", etc! The chinese still haven't figured out how to market to an American audience. Despite the odd name, the "Tactical Frog" watches appear to be very good quality for their price point. Seiko NH35 movement, sapphire crystal, etc. Not bad for $179. Aliexpress Tactical Frog https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/138981/tacticalfrog1_JPG-3178521.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/138981/tacticalfrog2_JPG-3178522.JPG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlBhYhWBqh4 View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By pctech: Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Fair point, and I agree. The only other watch I saw in this style was labeled “Tactical Frog.” Hard pass! Yeah, strange brand names are quite common on Aliexpress watches. "Berny", "Bliger", "Benyar", "Mysterious Code", "Heimdallr", "Parnis", "Seestern", "Tactical Frog", etc! The chinese still haven't figured out how to market to an American audience. Despite the odd name, the "Tactical Frog" watches appear to be very good quality for their price point. Seiko NH35 movement, sapphire crystal, etc. Not bad for $179. Aliexpress Tactical Frog https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/138981/tacticalfrog1_JPG-3178521.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/138981/tacticalfrog2_JPG-3178522.JPG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlBhYhWBqh4 Enjoyed the video, thanks for sharing. I subscribed to his channel. |
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The duty of a patriot is to protect his nation from its government.
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" |
Tactical Frog cracks me up. I want one just because the name is ridiculous.
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Originally Posted By MPi-KMS-72: Tactical Frog cracks me up. I want one just because the name is ridiculous. View Quote I agree 100%. This thread was making me anxious thinking about all the people who may get scammed unknowingly buying a fake and now I just want a tactical frog copy of something ridiculous. |
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Originally Posted By Forlorn-Hope: I agree 100%. This thread was making me anxious thinking about all the people who may get scammed unknowingly buying a fake and now I just want a tactical frog copy of something ridiculous. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Forlorn-Hope: Originally Posted By MPi-KMS-72: Tactical Frog cracks me up. I want one just because the name is ridiculous. I agree 100%. This thread was making me anxious thinking about all the people who may get scammed unknowingly buying a fake and now I just want a tactical frog copy of something ridiculous. Now you fuckers are making me want one for the novelty... my own thread is going to cost me a fortune! |
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The duty of a patriot is to protect his nation from its government.
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" |
never underestimate the stupidity of other people
GA, USA
|
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Now you fuckers are making me want one for the novelty... my own thread is going to cost me a fortune! View Quote I got an "Octopus" brand version of a fancy/famous watch. It was a Myota movement, kept great time, etc. I have no issues with the Tactical Frog or Octopus or whatever brand, but know what you're getting into |
"every exercise is a low back exercise if you do it wrong enough"
@MacManus |
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Like I said, NYC (and I assume others) will have a "China Town" where all kinds of counterfeit goods are sold. I see them listed on Facebook rather openly with sponsored content. Facebook apparently doesn't give a shit as the money is green. There are forums out there like ARFCOM for this interest. Somebody posted previously about one called Reptime but I have never been there. Reddit also has forums dedicated to "Chinese Watches" and I'm pretty sure they are openly sold there. Do a search for replica watches on Google and your Facebook feed will no doubt fill with them! View Quote Guess I’ve never seen them lol. Thanks, didn’t know it was that prevalent |
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“ Well, it feels like someone took a rubber band and snapped it right on the edge of your anus.” -JThompson
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SAF Life Member-GOA Life Member-JPFO Charter Member-MSF Life Member
FPC Member-VCDL Member-BFA Member-NRA Benefactor Life Member Sir RobertL, Charter Member of the Knights of Wonder |
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