Long time southern Baptist here. I grew up hearing about how I am going to burn in hell if I don't believe in Jesus or commit sins or stray away from my faith.....
About a year ago I started to question some basic things about my beliefs. Why would loving and forgiving God send someone to hell that has never accepted Jesus. If someone of a different religion holds tight to their faith when presented with the Christian beliefs, are they damned to hell for not having an open mind?
Anyways, I started questioning the validity of the bible. Where did it come from, who decided what could be in the bible and what was left out? Since it was a series of books compiled by some group of folks 400 years after Jesus died, was everything accounted for? Was it translated correctly?
Those questions led me to the concept of hell. Is it real? Where did it come from? Did Jesus talk about hell? Based on my perception of Jesus, I don't think he would be in favor of burning someone's soul for all of eternity because they didn't come to accept him as their savior in their short time living on earth. I found this article that makes some very good points and would be curious what everyone thinks of it.
If refuting this take on hell not existing, please provide some context as how the concept of hell is conveyed in the bible rather than specific uses of the word "hell". I really would like to know if the concept is there and this article is full of BS but I haven't found it yet.

https://medium.com/@BrazenChurch/hell-a-biblical-staple-the-bible-never-actually-mentions-c28b18b1aaaa

Jesus talked about hell quite a bit.  watch some NDE videos on the subject.  lots have been and got out thru Jesus name.   yep yep its real and full of  well hell

There's a lot our language and culture doesn't understand.  Sheol, the grave, hades vs. Tartarus, the lake of fire, gehena, for example.

Let's assume lake of fire, and say an eternal spectacle of pain and punishment.  No one can show you at this time if it is real by demonstration, so that aspect of your question can not be answered satisfactorily here.  Any ancient texts do suggest it in the bible and beyond if you read them straight.  

Your concern seems less about whether it actually exists or not, but rather, your discomfort with it and challenges with your ideas of justice and appropriateness of it.  The question you seek is "Why would a loving forgiving God send anyone there."  

The lake of fire wasn't primarily for humans but for the angels who, knowing right and wrong, chose to disobey and pervert creation by spawning "giants" with daughters of men.  Teaching them to charm others, kill and enslave others, and dominate.  On this God passed judgement with wars and the flood and cast the offending angels into prison under the earth until the time of final judgement.  Should he have left them to work iniquity and dominate and destroy creation indefinitely?

God is loving and forgiving, and long suffering, but he is also just, and hates evil.  Shall he suffer forever those who hate him, and even knowing truth reject him and righteousness?  Shall he give forever dominion to those who lie and cheat people, who lust and consume and destroy, but will not admit  sin is sin, or that they commit injustice, who will not repent?

He will accept those who humble themselves, admit his goodness and justice, and confess their own wickedness and accept him as king.  To those who will not confess his justice and their own iniquity, and will not repent what portion can they have in the garden of peace?

Shall heaven out of mercy admit hell and give it dominion?  

What just god would not put away those who will not acknowledge justice nor submit themselves humbly to it?  But rather leave them to work their own perverse ends to lie, cheat, dominate, and destroy others?  

Anyone who think themselves or humanity just as it is doesn't examine themselves or the present or past deeds of humanity or their future trajectory fairly.

God loves justice and hates injustice, but loving is patient to teach and even submit himself in our form as a humble servant teacher to be tortured and killed by our hand as an example of faithfulness and mercy, and our own wickedness.

He has given teaching and time to all flesh to hear and submit, and is desirous that all will turn to justice under him.  But he will not and must not tolerate injustice forever, or what justice could he be said to have?  And what mercy should he give to injustice? What quarter?  And in what position are we the wicked and corrupt to judge him?

I certainly have no place to speak against him and his judgment

ETA: Are those who behave only because they are punished truly repentant?  Compare to those who repent even when they are not punished?

Yes, it is real.

If St. Matthew 25 is not sobering, I don't know what is.  "41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.  42 For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink.  43 I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me.  44 Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee?  45 Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me. 46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting."

The Roman Catechism expounds thus:

"The Sentence Of The Wicked
Turning next to those who shall stand on His left, He will pour out His justice upon them in these words: Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared f or the devil and his angels.
The first words, depart from me, express the heaviest punishment with which the wicked shall be visited, their eternal banishment from the sight of God, unrelieved by one consolatory hope of ever recovering so great a good. This punishment is called by theologians the pain of loss, because in hell the wicked shall be deprived forever of the light of the vision of God.
The words ye cursed, which follow, increase unutterably their wretched and calamitous condition. If when banished from the divine presence they were deemed worthy to receive some benediction, this would be to them a great source of consolation. But since they can expect nothing of this kind as an alleviation of their misery, the divine justice deservedly pursues them with every species of malediction, once they have been banished.
The next words, into everlasting fire, express another sort of punishment, which is called by theologians the pain of sense, because, like lashes, stripes or other more severe chastisements, among which fire, no doubt, produces the most intense pain, it is felt through the organs of sense. When, moreover, we reflect that this torment is to be eternal, we can see at once that the punishment of the damned includes every kind of suffering.
The concluding words, which was prepared f or the devil and his angels, make this still more clear. For since nature has so provided that we feel miseries less when we have companions and sharers in them who can, at least in some measure, assist us by their advice and kindness, what must be the horrible state of the damned who in such calamities can never separate themselves from the companionship of most wicked demons ? And yet most justly shall this very sentence be pronounced by our Lord and Saviour on those sinners who neglected all the works of true mercy, who gave neither food to the hungry, nor drink to the thirsty, who refused shelter to the stranger and clothing to the naked, and who would not visit the sick and the imprisoned."

 What is the flame but the wrath of God himself.

As to where did hell come from, 2nd temple jews would likely have pointed to the version of Enoch found in the dead sea scrolls.

Sheol:
And thence I went to another place, and he mountain [and] of hard rock. 2 And there was in it four hollow places, deep and wide and very smooth. How smooth are the hollow places and deep and dark to look at. 3 Then Raphael answered, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'These hollow places have been created for this very purpose, that the spirits of the souls of the dead should 4 assemble therein, yea that all the souls of the children of men should assemble here. And these places have been made to receive them till the day of their judgement and till their appointed period [till the period appointed], till the great judgement (comes) upon them.' I saw (the spirit of) a dead man making suit, 5 and his voice went forth to heaven and made suit. And I asked Raphael the angel who was 6 with me, and I said unto him: 'This spirit which maketh suit, whose is it, whose voice goeth forth and maketh suit to heaven ?' 7 And he answered me saying: 'This is the spirit which went forth from Abel, whom his brother Cain slew, and he makes his suit against him till his seed is destroyed from the face of the earth, and his seed is annihilated from amongst the seed of men.' 8 The I asked regarding it, and regarding all the hollow places: 'Why is one separated from the other?' 9 And he answered me and said unto me: 'These three have been made that the spirits of the dead might be separated. And such a division has been make (for) the spirits of the righteous, in which there is the bright spring of 10 water. And such has been made for sinners when they die and are buried in the earth and judgement has not been executed on them in their 11 lifetime. Here their spirits shall be set apart in this great pain till the great day of judgement and punishment and torment of those who curse for ever and retribution for their spirits. There 12 He shall bind them for ever. And such a division has been made for the spirits of those who make their suit, who make disclosures concerning their destruction, when they were slain in the days 13 of the sinners. Such has been made for the spirits of men who were not righteous but sinners, who were complete in transgression, and of the transgressors they shall be companions: but their spirits shall not be slain in the day of judgement nor shall they be raised from thence.' 14 The I blessed the Lord of glory and said: 'Blessed be my Lord, the Lord of righteousness, who ruleth for ever.'

The lake of fire:
And I proceeded to where things were chaotic. And I saw there something horrible: I saw neither 3 a heaven above nor a firmly founded earth, but a place chaotic and horrible. And there I saw 4 seven stars of the heaven bound together in it, like great mountains and burning with fire. Then 5 I said: 'For what sin are they bound, and on what account have they been cast in hither?' Then said Uriel, one of the holy angels, who was with me, and was chief over them, and said: 'Enoch, why 6 dost thou ask, and why art thou eager for the truth? These are of the number of the stars of heaven, which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and are bound here till ten thousand years, 7 the time entailed by their sins, are consummated.' And from thence I went to another place, which was still more horrible than the former, and I saw a horrible thing: a great fire there which burnt and blazed, and the place was cleft as far as the abyss, being full of great descending columns of 8 fire: neither its extent or magnitude could I see, nor could I conjecture. Then I said: 'How 9 fearful is the place and how terrible to look upon!' Then Uriel answered me, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'Enoch, why hast thou such fear and affright?' And 10 I answered: 'Because of this fearful place, and because of the spectacle of the pain.' And he said unto me: 'This place is the prison of the angels, and here they will be imprisoned for ever.'

Your post reads to me like someone looking for a rationalization to give up on something you never believed in the first place, and that what you're talking about is not really what's going on.

If it wasn't hell, you'd find something else to rationalize against.

So what's really going on?

Why are you looking for an escape hatch to get away from things you were t old about that you no longer want to believe?

Will you be serious, and examine yourself and give meaningful answers to this?

Or are you doing a public performance to seek acceptance and approval for running away from something?

Are you going to be real?

What's actually going on with you?

IF someone had real answers for all of this and you couldn't refute them, would that change one iota about what you're trying to actually do?

ETA: your questions are worthless if you don't address these things going on inside yourself. You'll just be replacing one false front with another.

ETA2: there are real direct (and true) answers to the questions you are asking that do not shy away from the hard things, that are directly applicable.

Yes it's real. Jesus spoke of it many times.
My thought is God does not send anyone to hell. People have to decide if they want God in their life or not. He then honors that in death. God never forces himself on anyone. Hell is the place absent of God.

Luke 16. Rich man and Lazarus.
That article sounds like democrats

As the song says, I know there ain't no heaven and I pray there ain't no hell

My experience is that these are usually drive by posts, the op on these threads are not serious with their questions, they don't want real answers, and they are only doing a public performance.

Which is extremely annoying, because there are real answers to these things.

By the time these kinds of posts are made, any actual asking for real answers are past.

I genuinely look forward to OPs in these kinds of threads that will make me wrong on this.


Thes are the WORST kind of safe threads.

Most of the time these kinds of threads are equivalent to "well I used to be a rock ribbed conservative and I asked for answers to hard questions but nobody had answers." When we have answers, and have had answers, and just wish anyone would be serious about it.

People shouldn't feel bad for having doubts or asking hard questions.

People should feel bad for not asking them or not being serious when they ask them.
ETA: And than t hey should ask their real question with actual intent to get them answered, and than they should be honest with the answers they're given.

I came here thinking this was about the roadside billboard on I-71 just south of Columbus Ohio.

OP, it is and isn’t. Hell will be where Satan and his followers will be extinguished after the Millennium. Satan is in Heaven as of now. He will be released by Michael at the 666. 6th trump, 6th seal, and 6th vial. His locust army will come at 555.

Oh, its very real both in the Old and New Testament.   "In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth"

Well, I for one really appreciated your first post, the way you reach to the real problem.  I think you hit the nail on the head with the turmoil and forms people turn to for justification instead of resolve the source issue.

Thank you for both of your posts. I am going ot look into the dead sea scrolls.
On your first post, you had me at the first part but I am struggling to follow the rest. This reads more like hell is a place for those who have bad morals (wicked/corrupt) and not for those who have good morals. So would sending a soul to hell for eternity based on their poor morals be a punitive action similar to an eye for an eye mentality? I get that the other piece mentioned is they have to repent but what if they are not exposed to the idea of repent. They were predestined for hell or they are being punished for not seeking out the correct religion?

Thank you.
I don't know anything about Roman Catechism but I will try to look into it. Do they have a verse or book you referenced here?

Yes, and we are in it.

I often wonder if I died back in 1990 in the car wreck that took my spleen and this "life" I'm leading since then is actually Hell.  

Raised Baptist (not SBC, but Baptist), attended multiple stripes of Protestant denominations and non-denominations, but became Catholic in 2022 at the age of 64.

One of the clearest indicators of someone who has heard sermons but not been taught the faith is when they ask a question which starts with "Why would loving and forgiving God..." Simply asking the question makes the questioner a judge and accuser of the morality of God's actions, as if there is something inherently "unfair" about God.

God sends no one to hell, they choose it. They choose disobedience over obedience to God. They choose themselves over God Himself. They choose death over life.

Took a look at the link you posted and read the article from "The Brazen Church". Their description of themselves is:

Progressive Christian. Emerging Church. Eastern Orthodox. We’re breaking apart longstanding lies about God and finding Truth in the rubble.

Not sure I would be looking to an organization who's focused on "breaking apart longstanding lies about God". There are so many who approach Christianity this way, it would be a waste of time to try and understand what they call "truth".

we all have bad morals and are wicked and corrupt.  Those who don't think so haven't examined closely enough.

It's not about being good, it's about surrendering to the author  of morals, and admitting he is right and holy, and that we are not.  Just look at humanity now past, and future.  After that, read what God wanted and wants for us.  We will not achieve it by our own hands.

ETA
Think of it this way.  There are only two kingdoms.  The first is that set up by God who created all things to be good.  The second kingdom, which only exists temporarily while God uses it as a teaching moment for eternity, is the kingdom of rebellion and self rule, self ambition, self importance.  You read how lucifer was perfect at the start, but lied to himself (I shall ascend, I shall be the most high), and desire turned to sin, and he and those who did likewise thus establish the dominion of self.  What's wrong with being yourself?  Nothing if you are perfect the way God is.  But the story of history is the story of the kingdom of self, and all the horrors that come with it.  We are born to since the man and woman did as lucifer said rather than God said and they came into lucifer's dominion.  The law of moses, as clarified by Jesus isn't there to make us good. It is there to show us we are not.  Covet and you are as a their, lust and you are as an adulterer, hate and you are as a murderer.  All of this from being in the kingdom of self, the dominion of luxifer.  More and more people take pride in that kingdom and its founder.  They say "lucifer brought us knowledge and freedom".  But knowledge and freedom for what?  To work every form of indulgence, iniquity, lust and neglect we can conceive.  All the suffering of mankind is knowledge of evil we sought and attained as slaves of lucifer, bound to sin.  Our destiny in that kingdom is to be consigned to flames with its authors.

.


But God, loving us in that he made us as his own image, has mercy for us.  To see, reject, and repent from the kingdom of self, and to reach for and cling to God, admitting he is right and we are wrong, admitting he is just and we are bot, admitting he is God and none else is.  He sent prophets and guides and came himself as a perfect sacrifice to fulfil the law, and by being as a man without sin, establish a name and kingdom again men might cling to for life and be redeemed out of the kingdom consigned to destruction.

It's not about pretending we're moral or trying to be nice.  Those things are nothing if we do not surrender and accept the ransom offered us under the true God Emperor of mankind, the only name by which we can be saved.  Jesus Christ.

This is why the Christian must cry out the name of the Lord.  Why they mist go and teach all nations, and why they must devote themselves to doing as Jesus commanded, which they must read and reread to remember, and why they call to Jesus for forgiveness and mercy.

It's not fear of punishment, but the seizing of an opportunity for life, and a restoration of the good that God has always wanted.  He gives it freely,to those who will bow and call him Lord truly in spirit.

It will lead to a form of gnosticism, calling out to a " good god" of their dreams who "gets them" and "loves them just the way they are", and makes no demands on them (Ha-Satan in other words).  The world us full of such religion.

ETA:
Many people aren't interested in the God who should be worshiped, rather they seek a god who worships them

I’m of the opinion stated earlier, that those in Hell, will have made that choice. Man can not have two masters, comes to mind. And Hell is real. Whether a place or a condition, will not be a place I want to be.

- As for your fearful and judgmental experiences in the Church, I like to use this verse to show how what appears to be righteous might actually have a worse fate than the places God has declared to be wicked.

23And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to heaven? No, you will be brought down to Hades! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you." (Matthew 11:23-24)

- Now to those churches who think they can judge salvation, her children will be struck dead and they will face the judgement of their deeds by the decrees, ordinances, and expectations that  they have resurrected.

Then I will strike her children dead, and all the churches will know that I am the One who searches minds and hearts, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. (Revelation 2:23)

10And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

14Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death the lake of fire. 15And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:14-15)

8But to the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)


- Now in the below verse we have very similar people but their location is very different, notice "unbelievers" is excluded. We also have a process "washing" by which those in the outer parts of the Kingdom can prepare themselves to draw nearer to God. Therefore my current understanding of Jesus casting people into the outer darkness does not exclude some process for them turning back towards the light such as the mentioned washing. This seems distinctively different from the lake of fire that torments for eternity. These people may be ones who have lived a lie or by actions have lied against the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is the Seal of Salvation. Ananias and Sapphira had this seal, but dropped dead when they lied to the Holy Spirit. Did they lose the seal of their Salvation or is there a hierarchy in Heaven just as Jesus teaches in the parable of the talents? (Matthew 25:14-30) He says this parable is of the Kingdom of Heaven, one worker was given more and by doing well he even receives the talent of the most useless worker. Now this hierarchy or elevation in the Heavenly Kingdom does not exclude Salvation from those who are not as successful.

14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates. 15But outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. (Revelation 22:14-15)