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Posted: 4/15/2024 3:01:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Scratch45]
I bet Iran is embarrassed 99% of their sh*t got intercepted and destroyed.
Hard to be a respectable bully when you get kicked in the balls like that.

Also, a good reminder that the U.S. Military is without peer.
Our NATO allies and Israel also, although they lack the quantity the U.S. enjoys (and some of the BIGGER toys, like strategic bombers, subs, and aircraft carriers).  But their tech is... 1st world level quality.
We have seen this with the equipment that is being used against the Russians in Ukraine, and again with Iran.
Even acknowledging Irans lower tech, and a lot of it just crashed... still an incredible feat of military technology.  

I am fairly certain the same thing would happen with Western military vs China.  Although they would be a tougher nut to crack.
They haven't been in a shooting war in how long, and I think their military is over hyped.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:04:21 PM EDT
[#1]
Persians don’t get embarrassed
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:06:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lexustech48] [#2]
Anyone know if the Russian S-400 and S-500 are any good?
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:10:42 PM EDT
[#3]
I've read some stuff that somewhat indicates they did it all on purpose.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:11:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Defeat is the mother of invention and teaches you how to win. Victory is deadening to the senses and intellect.

Winning is great, but we should not be beating our chests about how wonderful we are. Our enemies are learning while we rest on our laurels.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:14:18 PM EDT
[#5]
The aren't embarrassed. The whole event was coordinated by the White House and Iran was compensated handsomely. Iran probably would not even have planned an attack until the US presented the idea.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:17:36 PM EDT
[#6]
I don’t think their intention was to cause any damage.

They “struck back” without causing further escalation. I think their satisfied with attacking Israel via proxies and don’t necessarily want a conventional conflict.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:17:59 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CypressCity:
I've read some stuff that somewhat indicates they did it all on purpose.
View Quote

I am certain that has been said, but have trouble understanding why they would do that.
But every single thing that happens these days is a conspiracy.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:19:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Scratch45] [#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Flak-Magnet:
Defeat is the mother of invention and teaches you how to win. Victory is deadening to the senses and intellect.

Winning is great, but we should not be beating our chests about how wonderful we are. Our enemies are learning while we rest on our laurels.
View Quote

The Military Industrial Complex does not rest on it's laurels.  It is a beast that NEVER sleeps.
For all the complaining about Military Industrial Complex, it does bear fruit.  Sometimes, really good fruit
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:20:04 PM EDT
[#9]
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:20:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Scratch45:

I am certain that has been said, but have trouble understanding why they would do that.
But every single thing that happens these days is a conspiracy.
View Quote



They get to have their big moment and say look we bombed the Jews. But they didn't get close enough to the edge to get hit back.

Israel got their guys, Iran got their face saved, and nobody went nuclear. Honestly a pretty good outcome for everyone.

Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:21:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Scratch45:

The Military Industrial Complex does not rest on it's laurels.  It is a beast that NEVER sleeps
View Quote



We've been resting on the laurels of using air assets to whack the world's most underarmed light infantry for 20+ years globally.

We aren't ready for the casualty headlines in a full on war.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:21:47 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By deschutes541:
I don’t think their intention was to cause any damage.

They “struck back” without causing further escalation. I think their satisfied with attacking Israel via proxies and don’t necessarily want a conventional conflict.
View Quote



Those drones can cause a lot of damage and they intended to do a lot of damage. Good thing they were shot down
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:22:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lexustech48:
Anyone know if the Russian S-400 and S-500 are any good?
View Quote
It all depends on if the assemblers were full of vodka.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:23:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Iran wasn't exactly trying hard.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:23:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Duster89:



They get to have their big moment and say look we bombed the Jews. But they didn't get close enough to the edge to get hit back.

Israel got their guys, Iran got their face saved, and nobody went nuclear. Honestly a pretty good outcome for everyone.

View Quote

I guess.  If by bombing the Jews, you mean nothing destroyed and no one killed or injured.
It just makes Iran look like they talk the talk but can't walk the walk.
You mean that kind of saving face?

We will see what happens if Israel retaliates for the Iran retaliation.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:23:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Wait till someone like China makes these cheap Kamikaze drones at scale and we're having to expend several hundred thousand dollar missiles against thousands of couple hundred dollar drones. It's not something that scales up in our favor imo.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:24:27 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:24:29 PM EDT
[#18]
My wild ass guess is that this was a test run and to exhaust defense systems supplies. The total cost for one nights defense of Israel was also likely much more than the 1.5 billion dollar estimate given. We can’t afford too many of those nights and they know that. So no, they probably view this as a strategic victory in their long term plans.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:26:18 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Coffin-Nail:
Wait till someone like China makes these cheap Kamikaze drones at scale and we're having to expend several hundred thousand dollar missiles against thousands of couple hundred dollar drones. It's not something that scales up in our favor imo.
View Quote
What makes you think we won't use drones?
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:28:21 PM EDT
[#20]
I suspect this had more to do with Iranian domestic politics than a serious attempt to attack Israel.  The Israeli air defense system is fairly well known.  The Iranians knew their drones weren't going to accomplish much.  They either didn't launch missiles or launched very few and none them seemed to have made it.  

Tel Aviv to Tehran is just short of a thousand miles, with a lot of hostile air space in between .  Kind of hard to fight a real war that far apart.  It would be about like Canada and Mexico going after each other.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:29:01 PM EDT
[#21]
i dunno what to think. but it could be taken as a probe of israel (and the west's) defenses. one wonders how this would have played out if the iranians had done multiple coordinated attacks over several days. at some point israel and friends would run out of expensive missiles before the iranians ran out of cheap wooden drones....
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:29:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Scratch45] [#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Duster89:



We've been resting on the laurels of using air assets to whack the world's most underarmed light infantry for 20+ years globally.

We aren't ready for the casualty headlines in a full on war.
View Quote

Pretty sure this was mostly Naval assets.
But air superiority is probably among our most significant assets.
The U. S. has not been in a war since Desert Strom.  Just ugly multi-year police actions.  A gross abuse of our fighting men and women.  If we truly get in a real war (which we generally try to avoid) and the gloves come off, shock and awe from the '90's will look like a jump scare.

Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:30:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CypressCity:
I've read some stuff that somewhat indicates they did it all on purpose.
View Quote

Yeah.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:32:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FreefallRet:
What makes you think we won't use drones?
View Quote


We spend enormous resources on “smart” munitions.  Our days of carpet bombing have passed.  We are far too civilized.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:32:54 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FreefallRet:
What makes you think we won't use drones?
View Quote


Haven't you heard? The only people with drones are Ukraine, Russia, and Iran. Also they are all made by DJI.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:35:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Those that back the government probably believe the propaganda that it was a success, and those that don't back the government are probably too busy stocking their bomb shelters to feel embarrassment.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:37:55 PM EDT
[#27]
They didn’t try.

Kabuki theatre to try to levite a response like Gaza and get (more of the world) on the “kill the jews” side.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:40:20 PM EDT
[#28]
what better way for our adversaries, to study our military in action, as well as drawing down our munitions even further. the whole thing is a dog and pony show imho
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:40:29 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ServusVeritatis:
They didn’t try.

Kabuki theatre to try to levite a response like Gaza and get (more of the world) on the “kill the jews” side.
View Quote

I agree that they could / should have tried harder.
But I still think the expected to cause some damage.
They screwed up and look weak.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:41:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Why would they be? It's mostly posturing on all sides to save face, justify spending, and maintain the status quo. The ones who should be embarrassed are the folks who think everything is the start of world war III. I guess the folks who keep saying it already started should be embarrassed too, but they're a lost cause.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:42:28 PM EDT
[#31]
In before the America haters
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:43:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Coffin-Nail:
Wait till someone like China makes these cheap Kamikaze drones at scale and we're having to expend several hundred thousand dollar missiles against thousands of couple hundred dollar drones. It's not something that scales up in our favor imo.
View Quote


I wonder if some enterprising fellow could invent an "anti-drone drone" that could be vectored to eliminate slow-flying kamikaze drones.

It would be the low-cost analogue of the iron dome missiles.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:44:01 PM EDT
[#33]
Originally Posted By Scratch45:
I bet Iran is embarrassed 99% of their sh*t got intercepted and destroyed.
Hard to be a respectable bully when you get kicked in the balls like that.

Also, a good reminder that the U.S. Military is without peer.
Our NATO allies and Israel also, although they lack the quantity the U.S. enjoys (and some of the BIGGER toys, like strategic bombers, subs, and aircraft carriers).  But their tech is... 1st world level quality.
We have seen this with the equipment that is being used against the Russians in Ukraine, and again with Iran.
Even acknowledging Irans lower tech, and a lot of it just crashed... still an incredible feat of military technology.  

I am fairly certain the same thing would happen with Western military vs China.  Although they would be a tougher nut to crack.
They haven't been in a shooting war in how long, and I think their military is over hyped.
View Quote


They gave a weeks notice to allow the jews and Americans and allies all the time they needed to get their AA in place.  A surprise attack or a different mix of projectiles or targets and they get at least 50% through.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:44:16 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wisbiker67:
what better way for our adversaries, to study our military in action, as well as drawing down our munitions even further. the whole thing is a dog and pony show imho
View Quote


From the big thread:
Thanks @michigan66
The Iranian April 13 missile-drone attack on Israel was very likely intended to cause significant damage below the threshold that would trigger a massive Israeli response.  The attack was designed to succeed, not to fail.  

The strike package was modeled on those the Russians have used repeatedly against Ukraine to great effect. The attack caused more limited damage than intended likely because the Iranians underestimated the tremendous advantages Israel has in defending against such strikes compared with Ukraine.

The Iranians will learn lessons from this strike and work to improve their abilities to penetrate Israeli defenses over time as the Russians have done in repeated strike series against Ukraine.

The strike consisted of approximately 170 drones, 30 cruise missiles, and 120 ballistic missiles.  The drones were launched well before the ballistic missiles were fired, very likely in the expectation that they would arrive in Israel’s air defense window at about the same time as the cruise missiles and drones.  The Russians have used such an approach against Ukraine repeatedly.

The purpose of such a package is to have the slower cruise missiles and drones distract and overwhelm air defenses in order to allow the ballistic missiles, which are much harder to shoot down, to reach their targets.

Israel’s air defense system has a number of obvious advantages over Ukrainian air defense, but the full implications of some of those advantages might well have been unclear to Iranian strike planners
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:45:29 PM EDT
[#35]
They struck at the Great Satan and its heir little Satan Israel.  

Like Saddam earlier, once the dust settles if they’re still there they won.  Regardless of cost.  

Despot rules.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:45:47 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lexustech48:
Anyone know if the Russian S-400 and S-500 are any good?
View Quote

They’re pretty good at shooting down Russian aircraft.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:49:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Undaunted] [#37]
Obiden gave them $16b and the US is intimating a limitation on future munitions to Israel. Iran can repeat that attack many times. How many time can Israel meet that challenge?

Whatever Israel does, it needs to be damn decisive.

Link Posted: 4/15/2024 3:51:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Scratch45:

I am certain that has been said, but have trouble understanding why they would do that.
But every single thing that happens these days is a conspiracy.
View Quote
Like our domestic politics, much of what happens on the international stage is also theater. If Iran launches a surprise attack and dozens of MRBMs fall on Israeli soil then Iran glows.

They let it be known well in advance what they were going to do which allowed defensive assets to be placed accordingly and domestically they look like they "did something".
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 4:03:20 PM EDT
[#39]
Some of need to see the damage those shithead drones have caused in Ukraine
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 4:06:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Scratch45] [#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Banditman:
Some of need to see the damage those shithead drones have caused in Ukraine
View Quote

Currently, the best drone defense is to not be where the drones are.  Our tech lead gives us a long, surgical reach.
Also, I have some faith the drone problem is being looked at by Top Men.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 4:07:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Drsalee:
Persians don't get embarrassed
View Quote
Their state media told the country that they inflected massive damage and many many jews died.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 4:09:29 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Drsalee:
Persians don’t get embarrassed
View Quote


+1

Nor do Arabs.

Plus, another thread mentioned all the stuff they shot/flew was old.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 4:09:43 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By torstin:
The aren't embarrassed. The whole event was coordinated by the White House and Iran was compensated handsomely. Iran probably would not even have planned an attack until the US presented the idea.
View Quote

Kabuki theater.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 4:10:12 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Drsalee:
Persians don’t get embarrassed
View Quote

No shame gene.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 4:11:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: michigan66] [#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Scratch45:
From the big thread Thanks @michigan66
View Quote

YW.  That was my cut-and-paste synopsis.  I'm posting the full article in the spoiler below, those of you who know more about this stuff than I do might see something I missed.

Iran’s Attempt to Hit Israel with a Russian-Style Strike Package Failed...for Now --Link to original article

Click To View Spoiler

In the Western and Israeli press you can find analysis pieces saying how great Iran did along side of pieces praising how Israel handled it.  I'm going to stay neutral about who "won" until we see what the next few days bring.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 4:13:39 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Thrasymachus:
Iran wasn't exactly trying hard.
View Quote


As evidenced by failure? Gonna need to do better than that.
Although I realize, if you ARE one (which would explain your stance) you probably aren't allowed to say more than you already have.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 4:15:06 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lexustech48:
Anyone know if the Russian S-400 and S-500 are any good?
View Quote

Still no data for the S-500 but S-400 is known so some info available

Link Posted: 4/15/2024 4:15:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Scratch45] [#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rifle_length:
Like our domestic politics, much of what happens on the international stage is also theater. If Iran launches a surprise attack and dozens of MRBMs fall on Israeli soil then Iran glows.

They let it be known well in advance what they were going to do which allowed defensive assets to be placed accordingly and domestically they look like they "did something".
View Quote

Regardless, there are few nations outside the US, NATO countries, and Israel that would have been unscathed from a similar attack.  Maybe Korea and Japan.

I would bet that the same attack, with the same warning on Russia would have resulted with some loss of life.
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 4:16:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lexustech48:
Anyone know if the Russian S-400 and S-500 are any good?
View Quote

China has some domestic shit besides the Russian buys but nobody knows the quality till shit goes down with India or Taiwan etc
Link Posted: 4/15/2024 4:16:04 PM EDT
[#50]
The whole thing is messed up IMO.... seems like it went down like this:

Iran -  Hey, in 72 hours we are gonna lob a bunch of crap at Israel, are you guys gonna be ready?
US and Iraq - Yea, we good.

US - Hey IZZY, Iran is gonna attack you in 72 hours, OK?
Israel - OK.

71.5 hours later....
Iran - Hey, we are getting ready to launch, you guys ready?
US and Iraq - Yea, we good.

US - Yo, IZZY, they getting ready to launch, you good?
Israel - Yep.




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