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Posted: 4/15/2024 3:01:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Scratch45]
I bet Iran is embarrassed 99% of their sh*t got intercepted and destroyed.
Hard to be a respectable bully when you get kicked in the balls like that. Also, a good reminder that the U.S. Military is without peer. Our NATO allies and Israel also, although they lack the quantity the U.S. enjoys (and some of the BIGGER toys, like strategic bombers, subs, and aircraft carriers). But their tech is... 1st world level quality. We have seen this with the equipment that is being used against the Russians in Ukraine, and again with Iran. Even acknowledging Irans lower tech, and a lot of it just crashed... still an incredible feat of military technology. I am fairly certain the same thing would happen with Western military vs China. Although they would be a tougher nut to crack. They haven't been in a shooting war in how long, and I think their military is over hyped. |
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Persians don’t get embarrassed
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Have another hit of sweet California sunshine
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Anyone know if the Russian S-400 and S-500 are any good?
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I've read some stuff that somewhat indicates they did it all on purpose.
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Defeat is the mother of invention and teaches you how to win. Victory is deadening to the senses and intellect.
Winning is great, but we should not be beating our chests about how wonderful we are. Our enemies are learning while we rest on our laurels. |
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The aren't embarrassed. The whole event was coordinated by the White House and Iran was compensated handsomely. Iran probably would not even have planned an attack until the US presented the idea.
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I don’t think their intention was to cause any damage.
They “struck back” without causing further escalation. I think their satisfied with attacking Israel via proxies and don’t necessarily want a conventional conflict. |
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Originally Posted By Flak-Magnet: Defeat is the mother of invention and teaches you how to win. Victory is deadening to the senses and intellect. Winning is great, but we should not be beating our chests about how wonderful we are. Our enemies are learning while we rest on our laurels. View Quote The Military Industrial Complex does not rest on it's laurels. It is a beast that NEVER sleeps. For all the complaining about Military Industrial Complex, it does bear fruit. Sometimes, really good fruit |
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😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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Originally Posted By Scratch45: I am certain that has been said, but have trouble understanding why they would do that. But every single thing that happens these days is a conspiracy. View Quote They get to have their big moment and say look we bombed the Jews. But they didn't get close enough to the edge to get hit back. Israel got their guys, Iran got their face saved, and nobody went nuclear. Honestly a pretty good outcome for everyone. |
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Originally Posted By Scratch45: The Military Industrial Complex does not rest on it's laurels. It is a beast that NEVER sleeps View Quote We've been resting on the laurels of using air assets to whack the world's most underarmed light infantry for 20+ years globally. We aren't ready for the casualty headlines in a full on war. |
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Originally Posted By deschutes541: I don’t think their intention was to cause any damage. They “struck back” without causing further escalation. I think their satisfied with attacking Israel via proxies and don’t necessarily want a conventional conflict. View Quote Those drones can cause a lot of damage and they intended to do a lot of damage. Good thing they were shot down |
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Let us never forget, government has no resources of its own. Government can only give to us what it has previously taken from us.
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"We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared so we may always be free." Ronald Reagan 1984
"Mitch the democrat bitch" 2024, the new and improved democrat election fraud |
Iran wasn't exactly trying hard.
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Originally Posted By Duster89: They get to have their big moment and say look we bombed the Jews. But they didn't get close enough to the edge to get hit back. Israel got their guys, Iran got their face saved, and nobody went nuclear. Honestly a pretty good outcome for everyone. View Quote I guess. If by bombing the Jews, you mean nothing destroyed and no one killed or injured. It just makes Iran look like they talk the talk but can't walk the walk. You mean that kind of saving face? We will see what happens if Israel retaliates for the Iran retaliation. |
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Wait till someone like China makes these cheap Kamikaze drones at scale and we're having to expend several hundred thousand dollar missiles against thousands of couple hundred dollar drones. It's not something that scales up in our favor imo.
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The whole thing is like ritual warfare where they dress up, march around, shout at the enemy then go home.
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I know I'll never go home.
So set fire to your ships, and past regrets, and be free. |
My wild ass guess is that this was a test run and to exhaust defense systems supplies. The total cost for one nights defense of Israel was also likely much more than the 1.5 billion dollar estimate given. We can’t afford too many of those nights and they know that. So no, they probably view this as a strategic victory in their long term plans.
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Originally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Wait till someone like China makes these cheap Kamikaze drones at scale and we're having to expend several hundred thousand dollar missiles against thousands of couple hundred dollar drones. It's not something that scales up in our favor imo. View Quote |
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I suspect this had more to do with Iranian domestic politics than a serious attempt to attack Israel. The Israeli air defense system is fairly well known. The Iranians knew their drones weren't going to accomplish much. They either didn't launch missiles or launched very few and none them seemed to have made it.
Tel Aviv to Tehran is just short of a thousand miles, with a lot of hostile air space in between . Kind of hard to fight a real war that far apart. It would be about like Canada and Mexico going after each other. |
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i dunno what to think. but it could be taken as a probe of israel (and the west's) defenses. one wonders how this would have played out if the iranians had done multiple coordinated attacks over several days. at some point israel and friends would run out of expensive missiles before the iranians ran out of cheap wooden drones....
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Originally Posted By Duster89: We've been resting on the laurels of using air assets to whack the world's most underarmed light infantry for 20+ years globally. We aren't ready for the casualty headlines in a full on war. View Quote Pretty sure this was mostly Naval assets. But air superiority is probably among our most significant assets. The U. S. has not been in a war since Desert Strom. Just ugly multi-year police actions. A gross abuse of our fighting men and women. If we truly get in a real war (which we generally try to avoid) and the gloves come off, shock and awe from the '90's will look like a jump scare. |
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Have another hit of sweet California sunshine
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Those that back the government probably believe the propaganda that it was a success, and those that don't back the government are probably too busy stocking their bomb shelters to feel embarrassment.
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They didn’t try.
Kabuki theatre to try to levite a response like Gaza and get (more of the world) on the “kill the jews” side. |
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what better way for our adversaries, to study our military in action, as well as drawing down our munitions even further. the whole thing is a dog and pony show imho
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Originally Posted By ServusVeritatis: They didn’t try. Kabuki theatre to try to levite a response like Gaza and get (more of the world) on the “kill the jews” side. View Quote I agree that they could / should have tried harder. But I still think the expected to cause some damage. They screwed up and look weak. |
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Why would they be? It's mostly posturing on all sides to save face, justify spending, and maintain the status quo. The ones who should be embarrassed are the folks who think everything is the start of world war III. I guess the folks who keep saying it already started should be embarrassed too, but they're a lost cause.
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In before the America haters
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Blameless, the tempest will be just that
So try as you may, feeble, your attempt to atone Your words to erase all the damage cannot A tempest must be just that |
Originally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Wait till someone like China makes these cheap Kamikaze drones at scale and we're having to expend several hundred thousand dollar missiles against thousands of couple hundred dollar drones. It's not something that scales up in our favor imo. View Quote I wonder if some enterprising fellow could invent an "anti-drone drone" that could be vectored to eliminate slow-flying kamikaze drones. It would be the low-cost analogue of the iron dome missiles. |
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Originally Posted By Scratch45: I bet Iran is embarrassed 99% of their sh*t got intercepted and destroyed. Hard to be a respectable bully when you get kicked in the balls like that. Also, a good reminder that the U.S. Military is without peer. Our NATO allies and Israel also, although they lack the quantity the U.S. enjoys (and some of the BIGGER toys, like strategic bombers, subs, and aircraft carriers). But their tech is... 1st world level quality. We have seen this with the equipment that is being used against the Russians in Ukraine, and again with Iran. Even acknowledging Irans lower tech, and a lot of it just crashed... still an incredible feat of military technology. I am fairly certain the same thing would happen with Western military vs China. Although they would be a tougher nut to crack. They haven't been in a shooting war in how long, and I think their military is over hyped. View Quote They gave a weeks notice to allow the jews and Americans and allies all the time they needed to get their AA in place. A surprise attack or a different mix of projectiles or targets and they get at least 50% through. |
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Originally Posted By wisbiker67: what better way for our adversaries, to study our military in action, as well as drawing down our munitions even further. the whole thing is a dog and pony show imho View Quote From the big thread: Thanks @michigan66 The Iranian April 13 missile-drone attack on Israel was very likely intended to cause significant damage below the threshold that would trigger a massive Israeli response. The attack was designed to succeed, not to fail. The strike package was modeled on those the Russians have used repeatedly against Ukraine to great effect. The attack caused more limited damage than intended likely because the Iranians underestimated the tremendous advantages Israel has in defending against such strikes compared with Ukraine. The Iranians will learn lessons from this strike and work to improve their abilities to penetrate Israeli defenses over time as the Russians have done in repeated strike series against Ukraine. The strike consisted of approximately 170 drones, 30 cruise missiles, and 120 ballistic missiles. The drones were launched well before the ballistic missiles were fired, very likely in the expectation that they would arrive in Israel’s air defense window at about the same time as the cruise missiles and drones. The Russians have used such an approach against Ukraine repeatedly. The purpose of such a package is to have the slower cruise missiles and drones distract and overwhelm air defenses in order to allow the ballistic missiles, which are much harder to shoot down, to reach their targets. Israel’s air defense system has a number of obvious advantages over Ukrainian air defense, but the full implications of some of those advantages might well have been unclear to Iranian strike planners |
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They struck at the Great Satan and its heir little Satan Israel.
Like Saddam earlier, once the dust settles if they’re still there they won. Regardless of cost. Despot rules. |
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“..statistically they are shortest people on earth. But they are very mean….”
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Dispensing happiness one MIRV at a time.
GA, USA
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"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."
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Obiden gave them $16b and the US is intimating a limitation on future munitions to Israel. Iran can repeat that attack many times. How many time can Israel meet that challenge?
Whatever Israel does, it needs to be damn decisive. |
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Originally Posted By Scratch45: I am certain that has been said, but have trouble understanding why they would do that. But every single thing that happens these days is a conspiracy. View Quote They let it be known well in advance what they were going to do which allowed defensive assets to be placed accordingly and domestically they look like they "did something". |
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Some of need to see the damage those shithead drones have caused in Ukraine
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Let us never forget, government has no resources of its own. Government can only give to us what it has previously taken from us.
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Originally Posted By Banditman: Some of need to see the damage those shithead drones have caused in Ukraine View Quote Currently, the best drone defense is to not be where the drones are. Our tech lead gives us a long, surgical reach. Also, I have some faith the drone problem is being looked at by Top Men. |
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"If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, give it Narcan." ~ AverageJoe365
“Imagine if the Great Depression and Mad Max had a baby.” ~ KingRat |
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Originally Posted By Scratch45: From the big thread Thanks @michigan66 View Quote YW. That was my cut-and-paste synopsis. I'm posting the full article in the spoiler below, those of you who know more about this stuff than I do might see something I missed. Iran’s Attempt to Hit Israel with a Russian-Style Strike Package Failed...for Now --Link to original article Click To View Spoiler Brian Carter and Frederick W. Kagan The Iranian April 13 missile-drone attack on Israel was very likely intended to cause significant damage below the threshold that would trigger a massive Israeli response. The attack was designed to succeed, not to fail. The strike package was modeled on those the Russians have used repeatedly against Ukraine to great effect. The attack caused more limited damage than intended likely because the Iranians underestimated the tremendous advantages Israel has in defending against such strikes compared with Ukraine. The Iranians will learn lessons from this strike and work to improve their abilities to penetrate Israeli defenses over time as the Russians have done in repeated strike series against Ukraine. The strike consisted of approximately 170 drones, 30 cruise missiles, and 120 ballistic missiles.[1] The drones were launched well before the ballistic missiles were fired, very likely in the expectation that they would arrive in Israel’s air defense window at about the same time as the cruise missiles and drones. The Russians have used such an approach against Ukraine repeatedly.[2] The purpose of such a package is to have the slower cruise missiles and drones distract and overwhelm air defenses in order to allow the ballistic missiles, which are much harder to shoot down, to reach their targets. The Iranians very likely expected that few if any of the cruise missiles and drones would hit their targets, but likely hoped that a significantly higher percentage of the ballistic missiles would do so. Only a few ballistic missiles penetrated Israeli air defenses and struck near Israeli military bases out of the 120 or so the Iranians fired.[3] Ukrainian air defenses have averaged interception rates of only about 46% of Russian ballistic missiles during recent large strikes. The Iranians likely expected that Israeli rates would be higher than the Ukrainian rates but not above 90% against such a large ballistic missile salvo—the Russians, after all, have never fired close to that many large ballistic missiles in a single strike against Ukraine. Ukraine frequently intercepts more than 75% of Russian cruise missiles and drones, but many of those interceptions occur within the air defense umbrella that is also occupied with ballistic missile defense. The Iranians thus likely expected that at least some of their drones and cruise missiles would interfere with Israeli targeting of incoming ballistic missiles, whereas apparently none did. Israel’s air defense system has a number of obvious advantages over Ukrainian air defense, but the full implications of some of those advantages might well have been unclear to Iranian strike planners. The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) and Israel’s allies have much larger and robust anti-missile and air defense systems and stocks of interceptors for them than Ukraine does—especially as Ukraine exhausts its supplies of interceptors while awaiting renewed US military assistance. Israel also benefits from the roughly 1,000 kilometers separating its borders from Iran’s. Israel and its allies used that distance to intercept all of the incoming drones and cruise missiles with ground-based air defense and combat aircraft before they even came within Israel’s own missile-defense umbrella. Israel and its allies employed hundreds of combat aircraft in this effort.[4] Ukraine lacks both of these advantages.[5] Iran also lacks access to the near-hypersonic missiles Russia has used to penetrate Ukrainian air defenses more reliably—at least for now. Ukraine has, in particular, been unable to use combat aircraft to shoot down Russian drones and cruise missiles at scale, and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky recently observed that Kyiv will likely use the F-16s Ukraine will receive this summer in those roles.[6] It has long been known that both drones and cruise missiles can be shot down by combat aircraft, but the Ukraine war has not yet seen a concerted effort made by a large and modern air force to intercept drone and cruise missile strikes at scale, and it is very possible that the Iranians underestimated the effectiveness of that effort. Iran will learn additional lessons from the failed April 13 attack that it can leverage to launch more successful attacks in the future. The lessons that Iran will draw from this attack will allow it to build more successful strike packages in the future. The attack probably helped Iran identify the relative strengths and the weaknesses of the Israeli air defense system. Iran will likely also share the lessons it learned in this attack with Russia. Russia will then use these lessons to improve its ability to defeat US- and NATO-provided air defense systems in Ukraine. Iran may be able to share lessons with Russia about the relative strengths and weaknesses of US-built aircraft and air-to-air missiles in intercepting these missiles and drones. Iran’s ability to penetrate Israeli air defenses with even a small number of large ballistic missiles presents serious security concerns for Israel. The only Iranian missiles that got through hit an Israeli military base, limiting the damage, but a future strike in which several ballistic missiles penetrate Israeli air defenses and hit Tel Aviv or Haifa could cause significant civilian casualties and damage to civilian infrastructure, including ports and energy. Russian strikes on Ukraine have demonstrated that even a small number of precise strikes against key nodes in energy or other infrastructure can cause disproportionate effects. Israel and its partners should not emerge from this successful defense with any sense of complacency. In the Western and Israeli press you can find analysis pieces saying how great Iran did along side of pieces praising how Israel handled it. I'm going to stay neutral about who "won" until we see what the next few days bring. |
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"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
Robert A. Heinlein, Friday |
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Deckard “nobody wants to know the truth, nobody” Cobra Kai Johnny Lawrence “she’s hot and all those other things” Tucker Carlson 1/10/2018 “I used to be a liberatarian until Google”https://mobile.twitter.com/Henry_Gunn
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Originally Posted By Rifle_length: Like our domestic politics, much of what happens on the international stage is also theater. If Iran launches a surprise attack and dozens of MRBMs fall on Israeli soil then Iran glows. They let it be known well in advance what they were going to do which allowed defensive assets to be placed accordingly and domestically they look like they "did something". View Quote Regardless, there are few nations outside the US, NATO countries, and Israel that would have been unscathed from a similar attack. Maybe Korea and Japan. I would bet that the same attack, with the same warning on Russia would have resulted with some loss of life. |
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Deckard “nobody wants to know the truth, nobody” Cobra Kai Johnny Lawrence “she’s hot and all those other things” Tucker Carlson 1/10/2018 “I used to be a liberatarian until Google”https://mobile.twitter.com/Henry_Gunn
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The whole thing is messed up IMO.... seems like it went down like this:
Iran - Hey, in 72 hours we are gonna lob a bunch of crap at Israel, are you guys gonna be ready? US and Iraq - Yea, we good. US - Hey IZZY, Iran is gonna attack you in 72 hours, OK? Israel - OK. 71.5 hours later.... Iran - Hey, we are getting ready to launch, you guys ready? US and Iraq - Yea, we good. US - Yo, IZZY, they getting ready to launch, you good? Israel - Yep. |
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derp...
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