I was referring to pulling back to set a casualty collection point like it’s a platoon or company sized op.



Getting off the x when everyone is dead or the boss gave the skeddadle order is within reason.


I don’t know what happened in the field but it’s all tainted with lies and slimed after the fact.  Hard to give honor to a fictional story.

ETA Assualting through the ambush when it is a three point attack on higher ground with better cover and you lack the manpower to likely succeed with just taking out one of the MG teams....... yea you’re pretty much screwed.   Yes it’s been done before in other wars by a single troop even, rolling up three german machine gun nests from the flank while the squad was pinned.   That is MoH stuff.

The application of self aid and buddy aid is incredibly situationally dependent. Taking direct fire from elevated positions with no/limited cover - gain fire superiority and get off the X.
Taking direct fire and in a covered position- maybe apply self aid and buddy aid if your able to, but you should most likely be prosecuting the contact.
In a 4 man team, prosecuting the contact would be priority given the small element size in most tactical situations. Of course, a 4 man team should have established pre planned targets, at least 1 belt fed, proper comms, and an insert plan that doesn't compromise you on TOT +1.

Taking 25% of your 4 man team's firepower to wait at a CCP isn't a viable action in ML's case. None of this actually matters though. The lie has been spun. The opportunity to combat the lie died with Luttrell's acquiescence and acceptance of the lie. This only cheapened the lives lost and the awards doled out to maintain outward appearances. But the entire GWOT was a huge waste of fucking time, lives and money.

What he said.

He said it better than I did.  +1

Shut it down boys. Thread’s over. This muthafucka wrapped it up and put a bow on it. Stop debating tactics and decisions under fire. This post is truth. Murphys MOH is a joke. Luttrells Navy Cross is a joke. Debating their decisions under fire is not reasonable and anyone who suggests the TOC monkeys weren’t paying attention has an extra chromosome.

Added information:  we(EMS) are trained the exact same way when detailed out for TEMS.  8 man team, fire/maneuvers support is #1 medicine in a active gunfight.

Debating the tactics don't matter because they didn't apply any of the appropriate SOP's and TTPs for the mission to begin with. Starting point, for any honest discussion on this matter must be, "They were fucked up," from the get go. Otherwise it's all disingenuous PR and an attempt to salvage the reputation of NSWC. Based on their heavy handed operations in my own later AOR's in Iraq, without prior notification and the clean up I had to conduct for them, good luck convincing me that it's a reputation that should be defended. As a Marine infantryman who conducted countless direct action raids without civilian casualties... it seemed silly that when they showed up and vanished that they couldn't manage to keep fires into appropriate targets.

I'm half autistic, but based on post history in this thread I think we are on the same page. Which means you were there in the AOR right after I left.

I was in Ramadi 07-08. First supporting the surge BN from 1ID, and then a couple of Marine Battalions.

Wonder if we crossed paths.

I would have been a bit to your east during that time frame. I was running out of Camp Fallujah in 07-08. Was up the road in Haditha in 2006.

These threads always bum me out.  Reality is often much messier than medal citations, but when they are complete fiction, it just fucking sucks.

Compare and contrast those citations, with this one, where there were many witnesses and people that made it off that island, because of him:

https://mohmuseum.org/medal_of_honor/tony-stein/

Handing them out for lies to cover people asses, cheapens the medals of those who deserved it.

For those of you that served and bring your knowledge and sacrifices to the conversation, thank you,

Macarthur's was the worst MOH ever given and others that deserved it have been denied. They have almost made awarding it too exclusive, except when they want to cover it up.

Was this the result of ranked choice voting?

MacArthur was not a great person, and definitely not "heroic."

There was, after all, an investigation during the Bush years IIRC as to why there were so few MOH awarded. Indeed, the service crosses and MOH have seemingly become either ultra exclusive or given in cases like this (thread subject). Hopefully there will be many more service crosses and MOH awarded in the coming years, and hopefully not posthumously, but either way those men deserve to be recognized and decorated.  

There were a lot of MOH awarded to flag officers in WWII which were utter bullshit, they had nothing to do with combat valor, but for things like commanding a battle or campaign or basically just doing their fucking job (while sitting in a nice comfortable and safe office). Politics and nothing more. Disgusting.

Yeah man. I agree with you on all points. This is far from the worst NSW shitshow I witnessed in 8.5yrs deployed. This is the one that made the best movie I suppose.

Was also in Ramadi in 07 and 08. I don’t remember dealing with 1ID although I saw them in other areas of Anbar sporting their patch with the EGA on it. (I have one somewhere). I dealt almost entirely with USMC and NSW and 3ID. There was a stryker unit there from KS guard that was fucking good to go too. Those guys impressed me.