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Posted: 7/1/2023 2:13:34 PM EDT
I have a dog that bit someone back in 2020, the case finally settled a couple of weeks ago. A woman in my neighborhood was stupid enough to reach over my fence to pet a 90 pound dog that was barking on jumping on the fence. So now I’ve got a problem.

I’m in the process of moving over the next couple of months. So far I haven’t found a company that will insure me as long as I keep the dog. I’m staying in Tennessee, but moving out of the city onto some land that I bought last year. The house is of my own design so that I’ll be able to live there for the rest of my life as I get older.

The major insurance companies are all out. I have State Auto at the house that I’m in right now, but they were bought out by Liberty Mutual and while they will continue to insure me where I live now and already had a policy, they will not write a new policy if I move. Their rates also went up by 60% when they renewed the policy. Zander Insurance is working on finding someone that will insure me but so far they haven’t had any luck. They’re a broker that represents a number of other insurance companies.

There has to be someone at some price that will offer me homeowners insurance without getting rid of my dog. To me he’s family. I’ve had him for 6 of his 7 years and don’t want to give up on him. He’s an American Bulldog mix, I don’t know the rest of his ancestry, but he’s not a pit bull in case anyone is curious.

So if anyone has any ideas I’d love to hear them. The woman that I’m dealing with at Zander is an animal lover and said that if she doesn’t find anything by this coming week that she’ll go outside of the company. But one way or the other I have to have insurance, animal liability insurance will be handled separately, this is for the building(s) and the land.
Link Posted: 7/1/2023 4:18:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: LibertyShip] [#1]
USAA?

Homeowners insurance companies without dog breed restrictions
Those who prefer to stick with homeowners insurance without dog breed restrictions should take a closer look at the following companies:

American Family
Hippo
State Farm
USAA
However, just because these companies don't have any homeowners insurance dog breed restrictions doesn't mean they'll cover every dog. Many won't cover dogs with a bite history, and some require further investigation to determine whether they'll cover the dog in question.

https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/insurance/homeowners/homeowners-insurance-dog-breed-restrictions/
Link Posted: 7/1/2023 8:39:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LibertyShip:
USAA?

Homeowners insurance companies without dog breed restrictions
Those who prefer to stick with homeowners insurance without dog breed restrictions should take a closer look at the following companies:

American Family
Hippo
State Farm
USAA
However, just because these companies don't have any homeowners insurance dog breed restrictions doesn't mean they'll cover every dog. Many won't cover dogs with a bite history, and some require further investigation to determine whether they'll cover the dog in question.

https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/insurance/homeowners/homeowners-insurance-dog-breed-restrictions/
View Quote


Thanks.

State Farm and USAA won’t insure anyone that has a dog with a bite history. I’ll look into the others though. With 17,000 dog bites a year these people have to be getting insurance somewhere. I can’t imagine that many people giving up their dogs or going without insurance.
Link Posted: 7/1/2023 10:02:19 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 7/2/2023 3:23:38 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:
Would it make a difference if the dog is kept inside? (I mean, except for potty breaks, supervised play, etc.)

If the dog is not allowed outside unsupervised, there is far less chance of an ill-fated meeting.

That said, if the dog bit somebody, it might be good to consider training for the dog (unless you want that behavior for property protection?)

Also, fence requirements can help I think.  A taller fence, a more solid fence, etc.

However, I do not envy you this undertaking.

We once raised show quality Rotties.  These dogs wouldn't bite anything other than dog food, and their offspring have consistently won at the state level in K9 Good Citizen and obedience competitions.   EVEN SO, when we bought our house, the insurance agent continued to refer to our dogs as "vicious dogs requiring vicious dog policies."  

All we had to do was a kennel of chain link, at least 6' tall, with precautions so they could not dig under.  But there was no bite history.

I will tell you that the whole "vicious dog" thing pissed me off.  I actually asked her to stop referring to my dogs that way, but it's like she couldn't even comprehend what I was saying.  
View Quote


Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately I could keep him inside 24/7 and it wouldn’t make any difference to the insurance companies that I’ve talked to.

He’s been through basic and advanced obedience training and then some one on one after that. He does great, it’s just when that woman reached over the fence his fear response kicked in and the rest is history.

I have a 6’ foot fence, now. He couldn’t get over the old fence, but this one is too tall for anyone to reach over.

He’s not labeled as vicious or anything by animal control. For a year and a half he was on their watch list as “potentially dangerous”. They had to come and check to make sure that he was home once a month, and if I took him anywhere except the vet I had to contact them days in advance about when and where he would be plus how long he would be gone. That’s been over now for about a year and he’s off of their list. He’s not referred to as visions or dangerous by anyone except insurance carriers which is who I need to convince that he’s just a normal dog that’s easily scared when someone invades his territory. It really sucks, but hopefully this coming week something will shake out.

Thanks for the suggestions and comments. Outside of his yard he loves everybody, even the vet.
Link Posted: 7/2/2023 7:59:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: LibertyShip] [#5]
Is it possible to find an insurance company and have them write a homeowners policy for you that expressly excludes dog bite liability?

Then, get add supplemental policy that specifically covers dog bite liability?

I found this; there might be others:

Lifestyle
(who we can help)
We can help insurance producers (agents and brokers) that are looking to write more business for their clients who own a pet, including:

Pet owners – dogs, cats, birds, rabbits, reptiles, etc.
Dog breed deemed aggressive including Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, German Shepherds, and more
Animals with a bite history

https://www.primeis.com/product-lines/personal-lines/animal-liability/

Maybe your agent should look into this.



Link Posted: 7/2/2023 11:08:35 AM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LibertyShip:
Is it possible to find an insurance company and have them write a homeowners policy for you that expressly excludes dog bite liability?

Then, get add supplemental policy that specifically covers dog bite liability?

I found this; there might be others:

Lifestyle
(who we can help)
We can help insurance producers (agents and brokers) that are looking to write more business for their clients who own a pet, including:

Pet owners – dogs, cats, birds, rabbits, reptiles, etc.
Dog breed deemed aggressive including Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, German Shepherds, and more
Animals with a bite history

https://www.primeis.com/product-lines/personal-lines/animal-liability/

Maybe your agent should look into this.



View Quote


I appreciate it but we’re already there, the insurance that I have right now and any policy that I might be able to get already excludes animal liability. The sticking point is that any homeowners insurance in Tennessee is required to pay attorney fees in the case of any claims; that’s not waiverable and attorney fees add up quickly.  

I’ve spent most of last week and pretty much all of this weekend trying to find a solution. You guys have been a real inspiration and solid proof that there are some damned fine people on this forum. I appreciate it more than you can know. I’m not at the point of putting him down yet, I want to see if anything comes up to solve the problem and until the day that I move I still have a chance to find a solution.
Link Posted: 7/2/2023 1:44:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: LibertyShip] [#7]
Well, this makes me mad.  There's gotta be a way.  Too late to charge the woman with trespass?

Defenses to dog bite claims
Determining liability in a dog bite case is generally pretty straightforward. There are only a few defenses that might apply:

The defendant provoked the dog. Understandably, Tennessee’s strict liability and one-bite laws don’t apply if the defendant is bitten after “enticing, disturbing, alarming, harassing, or otherwise provoking the dog.”

The defendant was trespassing. If the plaintiff trespasses (enters without permission) on the dog owner’s property and is bitten, the dog owner will not be held liable.

The dog is a police or military dog. If the plaintiff is bitten by a police or military dog while the dog was performing its official duties, the dog owner won’t be held liable.

The dog was protecting the owner or another innocent party from the injured person. If the plaintiff, for example, attacks the dog owner and the dog bites the plaintiff to protect the owner, the owner won’t be held liable.

The dog was securely confined in a kennel. If the dog was confined in a kennel, crate, or similar enclosure when the bite occurred, the owner won’t be held liable.
In Tennessee, a dog owner won’t generally be held liable if their dog bites a trespasser or attacker.


https://www.enjuris.com/tennessee/premises-liability/dog-bite-laws/


Link Posted: 7/2/2023 3:25:34 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LibertyShip:
Well, this makes me mad.  There's gotta be a way.  Too late to charge the woman with trespass?

Defenses to dog bite claims
Determining liability in a dog bite case is generally pretty straightforward. There are only a few defenses that might apply:

The defendant provoked the dog. Understandably, Tennessee’s strict liability and one-bite laws don’t apply if the defendant is bitten after “enticing, disturbing, alarming, harassing, or otherwise provoking the dog.”

The defendant was trespassing. If the plaintiff trespasses (enters without permission) on the dog owner’s property and is bitten, the dog owner will not be held liable.

The dog is a police or military dog. If the plaintiff is bitten by a police or military dog while the dog was performing its official duties, the dog owner won’t be held liable.

The dog was protecting the owner or another innocent party from the injured person. If the plaintiff, for example, attacks the dog owner and the dog bites the plaintiff to protect the owner, the owner won’t be held liable.

The dog was securely confined in a kennel. If the dog was confined in a kennel, crate, or similar enclosure when the bite occurred, the owner won’t be held liable.
In Tennessee, a dog owner won’t generally be held liable if their dog bites a trespasser or attacker.


https://www.enjuris.com/tennessee/premises-liability/dog-bite-laws/


View Quote


Yup, you found Tennessee’s law 44-8-413. If it had gone all the way to a jury trial as the plaintiff originally wanted it to then all of this would have come out by my attorney in defense. But in this case it’s already been dragged out for almost 3 years and State Farm offered a settlement that she took, the general felling being that it was cheaper (attorneys fees add up in a hurry) and less public if they just paid her off. Unfortunately that hits me in 2 places. First, and most important, I now have a dog with a dog bit history so regardless of who was at fault it’s turning out to be extremely difficult to get insurance. Second, the settlement of $100,000 is almost twice the National average, depending upon the source, so insurance companies that might be more willing to deal with me before are turned off by the size of the settlement.

The only positive thing to come out of it is that her medical bills, about $66,000, something close to that and her attorney fees will eat it up and she’s not getting a big windfall from it. She had originally sued for $550,000 ($300,000 in compensatory and $250,000 in punitive). The reason for the medical bills being so high is that she was bitten just above the left eye and had a plastic surgeon take care of things. BTW, he did a great job, you can’t tell that she was ever bitten. She’s still 57 and looks like 87, but that’s not fixable.

Hopefully Zander will be able to find something. One sticking point to writing a homeowners policy right now has to do with legal stuff. While the settlement was reached a couple of weeks ago both parties, and the State Farm have to sign off on it and then it goes to a judge who has to sign it before the claim is officially closed, so until it’s closed no insurance company will write a policy. So far none have been willing to say that they would write a policy once it’s closed. There is one that the woman at Zander says shows some promise, but they haven’t committed yet. She’s going to reach out to them again tomorrow. She’s an animal lover and has several pets, she said that if she had to she would look outside Zander to find something, hopefully.

I will say one thing positive, Zander Insurance, by all appearances, is working like crazy to get something written.
Link Posted: 7/2/2023 3:31:36 PM EDT
[#9]
How do they know you have a dog with a history ? Can't you say the dog that bit is gone ? They can't stop you from getting a new dog .
Link Posted: 7/2/2023 3:57:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Damn!  Your dog was Not Guilty, but you insurance company, the "public defender," took a plea to save a buck!!!

God bless Xander.  Sure hope they can pull a rabbit out of the hat.

Link Posted: 7/7/2023 12:38:00 PM EDT
[#11]
Zander is still working on it. I found a company that only writes animal liability policies that include attorney fees in case I’m sued again by someone else. In Tennessee homeowner policies foot the bill for the attorney so that’s going to help. I got an email from Zander yesterday afternoon wanting the value of the house that I’m building, so I think that she’s on to something.

As for renaming the dog I had thought about but he’s chipped so his data is out there to be had and according to my old insurance company and my vet reading the microchip that bit of information comes up as well. So he was chipped by the previous owner, which to be honest I thought was a decent idea anyway in case he wandered off, but I’m finding that it does have one big disadvantage.

So the hunt is still on for insurance. I also located another well established and rated insurance broker yesterday and he’s looking as well. My attorney had manticores that I may wind up using Lloyds of London. I thought that he was kidding, I always picture them insuring million dollar paintings, but he was serious. That’s a last resort as I’m sure that they charge a ton for their services.

But one way or the other I’m determined to keep him. When I got him I was in a dark place and he helped me get out of it, now it’s time to repay the favor.
Link Posted: 7/7/2023 12:41:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Have you checked Tennessee Farm Bureau? I’d definitely call an agent. I have been insured by them since I moved to TN in 2012.
Link Posted: 7/7/2023 12:51:14 PM EDT
[#13]
Zander is still working on it. I found a company that only writes animal liability policies that include attorney fees in case I’m sued again by someone else. In Tennessee homeowner policies foot the bill for the attorney so that’s going to help. I got an email from Zander yesterday afternoon wanting the value of the house that I’m building, so I think that she’s on to something.

As for renaming the dog I had thought about but he’s chipped so his data is out there to be had and according to my old insurance company and my vet reading the microchip that bit of information comes up as well. So he was chipped by the previous owner, which to be honest I thought was a decent idea anyway in case he wandered off, but I’m finding that it does have one big disadvantage.

So the hunt is still on for insurance. I also located another well established and rated insurance broker yesterday and he’s looking as well. My attorney had manticores that I may wind up using Lloyds of London. I thought that he was kidding, I always picture them insuring million dollar paintings, but he was serious. That’s a last resort as I’m sure that they charge a ton for their services.

But one way or the other I’m determined to keep him. When I got him I was in a dark place and he helped me get out of it, now it’s time to repay the favor.
Link Posted: 7/7/2023 1:01:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Good for you.  

Don't let the Lloyds Of London's name intimidate you.  In my experience they are more or less competitive.  Manticores?  Seriously?  I would think anyone who would insure a manticore would cover your pooch!!!

Given the fact that your pooch was tricked into taking a plea in spite of his technical innocence, maybe Bill Lee could write a pardon!

Link Posted: 7/23/2023 11:16:30 PM EDT
[#15]
For anyone that’s still following this thread, I’m still out here looking for insurance. The woman at Zander is still holding out that the insurance agent that she found will write a policy. The other broker that I found called me back on Thursday and said that he might have found one that would write a policy. I think that the sticking point right now is that the claim isn’t technically closed yet. It was settled over a month ago, but there’s a legal difference between “settled” and “closed”. All that I’m waiting on for the claim to be officially closed is the judge to sign the papers, and that might have already happened, my attorney is going to find out tomorrow (Monday). Apparently Rutherford County in Tennessee still doesn’t do electronic filing, so you either wait for papers to go from one place to another or you keep calling to find out the status.

Once that happens I’m hoping that at least one of these insurance companies will write a policy minus any animal liability. I have a separate insurance policy that covers nothing but animal liability and they cover attorney fees as well, so an insurance that writes me a homeowners policy would have no exposure at all, liability, attorney fees or otherwise. At least that’s what I’m holding onto. I’m at least a month away from moving, but time flies at the worst moments and the last thing that I ever want to do is have a healthy 7 year old dog euthanized because some random woman was a complete dumbass. He helped me through some dark times and I’m not giving up on him until I absolutely have no choice.
Link Posted: 7/24/2023 7:48:36 AM EDT
[#16]
Thanks for the update.  Keep up the fight.  I'm not sure if this would help, but I see that Rutherford County does participate in some way in Electronic Filing:

https://go.tybera.net/tncis/

Not sure what, exactly, a "chancery court" is, or if it applies.

Hope your attorney can get this thing closed.

So bad that you guys were within the law and ended up liable!

Link Posted: 7/27/2023 10:46:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Good news!!!  I found an insurance company that will write a policy for homeowners insurance and let me keep Chance, my problem child. To make the news even better they’re much less expensive than who I had before, the company that would not write a new policy when I move. They do not cover me for animal liability, so I still have to carry a separate policy with a specialty company but I had expected that. If anyone runs into this kind of problem in the future it’s a company called American Modern. Odd name, sounds more like a style of interior decorating, but I’m not arguing. They insure odd things as well like yurts.
Link Posted: 7/28/2023 7:55:36 AM EDT
[#18]
Hooray!  Happy for you and your pooch.

Phew.  One less thing in this world for me to worry about!

Thanks for the update and resolution.



Link Posted: 8/4/2023 1:05:27 PM EDT
[#19]
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