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Posted: 4/25/2024 7:46:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: Strange implication that both Max and Lando wouldn’t be able to figure out how to handle an endurance race. They can do it (Nando already has) but it can be a very different challenge. Not for nothing it attracts specialists. You need chemistry in the lineup, and a level of teamwork you don't really get in F1, especially if it's a pro/am split. You have to build up the weakest leg. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:20:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cypher214]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Esterhase: I don't know if you'd want two hard chargers in an endurance entry. Whomever the 3rd is, they'd need to coach them; we have not seen that ability in either Max or Nando, so far. Endurance is a very different and interesting discipline. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Esterhase: Originally Posted By drewptwo: Tinfoil hat time... they are discussing for 24 hour races and who they want as a team. I don't know if you'd want two hard chargers in an endurance entry. Whomever the 3rd is, they'd need to coach them; we have not seen that ability in either Max or Nando, so far. Endurance is a very different and interesting discipline. I feel like you need to do a little more research on Verstappen. You keep implying things that are incorrect because you apparently want to downplay his abilities for some reason. Max has competed on the sim in 24 hour races at Le Mans, Nurburgring, Spa, and Daytona and won some of them. Sim racing can be more difficult to stay focused than an actual race. https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verstappen-virtual-24-hours-daytona-victory Alonso has won Le Mans twice and 24 hours of Daytona so you're woefully uninformed here. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 9:43:26 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher214: I feel like you need to do a little more research on Verstappen. You keep implying things that are incorrect because you apparently want to downplay his abilities for some reason. Max has competed on the sim in 24 hour races at Le Mans, Nurburgring, Spa, and Daytona and won some of them. Sim racing can be more difficult to stay focused than an actual race. https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verstappen-virtual-24-hours-daytona-victory Alonso has won Le Mans twice and 24 hours of Daytona so you're woefully uninformed here. Lol okay dude. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:02:11 AM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 4/26/2024 7:15:48 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike:
Bearman is the replacement at Haas, wonder which driver Hulk is replacing at Sauber? Even though both are deadmen. 5 seat changes and counting for next season... |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 7:46:19 AM EDT
[#6]
So Sainz (maybe) and Hulk at Audi. Might be a decent combo.
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Posted: 4/26/2024 8:28:10 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Teamer: So Sainz (maybe) and Hulk at Audi. Might be a decent combo. I think Audi is Sainz's next seat, they'll build the program around him and he wont give a shit he's driving a tractor in 2025. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 8:42:23 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Teamer: So Sainz (maybe) and Hulk at Audi. Might be a decent combo. I'm enjoying Hulk's renaissance. And Haas' quiet progress. I didn't expect the latter and it's great to see. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 9:38:28 AM EDT
[#9]
So with that announcement on Nico, that means Bottas is out.
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Posted: 4/26/2024 10:10:14 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By poison123: So with that announcement on Nico, that means Bottas is out. He is rich already and rents his car out. 😁 No chance for Zhou(sp?) to be gone? Yeah i know the China connection but… |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 10:27:15 AM EDT
[#11]
I'm guessing that Newey is more of a proper "British Gentleman" and the lack of decorum and titillating stories since February has made F1 more "Crazy Clown Show" than its normal circus.
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Posted: 4/26/2024 10:31:09 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Roland-G23: I'm guessing that Newey is more of a proper "British Gentleman" and the lack of decorum and titillating stories since February has made F1 more "Crazy Clown Show" than its normal circus. His book is a great read; you'll get a lot of his personality. His clashes at McLaren (he decorated his office, to Ron Dennis' absolute fury) are hilarious. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 10:37:10 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Esterhase: Lol okay dude. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Esterhase: Originally Posted By Cypher214: I feel like you need to do a little more research on Verstappen. You keep implying things that are incorrect because you apparently want to downplay his abilities for some reason. Max has competed on the sim in 24 hour races at Le Mans, Nurburgring, Spa, and Daytona and won some of them. Sim racing can be more difficult to stay focused than an actual race. https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verstappen-virtual-24-hours-daytona-victory Alonso has won Le Mans twice and 24 hours of Daytona so you're woefully uninformed here. Lol okay dude. Okay dude, I'm not the one saying Verstappen and ALONSO, of all people, can't figure out endurance racing. You said something ignorant and got corrected, it is what it is. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 10:47:54 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher214: Okay dude, I'm not the one saying Verstappen and ALONSO, of all people, can't figure out endurance racing. You said something ignorant and got corrected, it is what it is. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher214: Originally Posted By Esterhase: Originally Posted By Cypher214: I feel like you need to do a little more research on Verstappen. You keep implying things that are incorrect because you apparently want to downplay his abilities for some reason. Max has competed on the sim in 24 hour races at Le Mans, Nurburgring, Spa, and Daytona and won some of them. Sim racing can be more difficult to stay focused than an actual race. https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verstappen-virtual-24-hours-daytona-victory Alonso has won Le Mans twice and 24 hours of Daytona so you're woefully uninformed here. Lol okay dude. Okay dude, I'm not the one saying Verstappen and ALONSO, of all people, can't figure out endurance racing. You said something ignorant and got corrected, it is what it is. To be fair, Alonso has only started 10 endurance races. 
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Posted: 4/26/2024 11:14:50 AM EDT
[#15]
Without mentioning names, reading comprehension is sometimes dreadful here, below even general GD standards (notwithstanding the frankly hilarious claims about sim racing, sorry, just no), but to repeat the point, I made absolutely no judgement on Verstappen's or Alonso's ability.
What I said was that it may not be desirable to have two hard chargers in an endurance entry. It's not a controversial statement, anyone that has watched even a single sportscar event would get it. Being incredible on an GP Sunday doesn't necessarily translate to other disciplines, not NASCAR, WRC, or anything. Endurance in particular can be peculiar. Some drivers that have done nothing notable in single seaters are really great at it, and that's without mentioning the depth of talent in the Bronze or am entries - Ben Keating for example. Sebastian Buemi (remember him?) has been a real success story in WEC. Antonio Giovanazzi is another. These are 24hr races that demand a very rigorous approach to pace and mechanical preservation; you cannot have two drivers going at 10/10 trying to undercut the other guy's stint average on hour 5 of 24. You DO actually need that guy (assuming he's rested himself) in the last hour, but that's just another facet to it. It sounds odd to me that people say Alonso won Le Mans, because he didn't. His entry did. he didn't do a 24hr stint. I get what people mean, but it says a lot to me about how people view F1 drivers as soon as they do anything else. F1 favors an individualism that tends to be repeated everywhere in single seaters, despite the appearance of a team. In Endurance, it really matters that you can work with everyone over a weekend. Fandom in F1 is a fundamentally fragile position if you're an F1 fan; because everything ends, then what's left? Getting angry at someone you think criticized your boy, that's what. You might as well get mad about time. Get past it, you'll enjoy the sport more. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 11:22:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Cypher214]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Esterhase: Getting angry at someone you think criticized your boy That's not at all what this is, but okay dude lol. You act like sim racing has no relevance but real world drivers have repeatedly said sim racing, in some ways, is more challenging than racing an actual car. Max has done very well with teams in multiple 24 hour sim events so your suggestion that both he and Alonso aren't capable of working with a team was an uninformed position. I'm not angry at anyone, I've simply pointed out that your opinion comes from a place of ignorance despite your general air of arrogance in this thread. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 11:26:12 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: To be fair, Alonso has only started 10 endurance races. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: Originally Posted By Cypher214: Originally Posted By Esterhase: Originally Posted By Cypher214: I feel like you need to do a little more research on Verstappen. You keep implying things that are incorrect because you apparently want to downplay his abilities for some reason. Max has competed on the sim in 24 hour races at Le Mans, Nurburgring, Spa, and Daytona and won some of them. Sim racing can be more difficult to stay focused than an actual race. https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verstappen-virtual-24-hours-daytona-victory Alonso has won Le Mans twice and 24 hours of Daytona so you're woefully uninformed here. Lol okay dude. Okay dude, I'm not the one saying Verstappen and ALONSO, of all people, can't figure out endurance racing. You said something ignorant and got corrected, it is what it is. To be fair, Alonso has only started 10 endurance races. Clearly he would struggle working with a team. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 1:07:55 PM EDT
[#18]
No talk of Newey leaving??
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Posted: 4/26/2024 1:13:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CanaryCamaro: No talk of Newey leaving?? That was a page or two ago. 😁 |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 1:20:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: drewptwo]
[#20]
Daddy Stroll looking to sell up to 25% of his ownership of the team.
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Posted: 4/26/2024 1:27:10 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drewptwo: Daddy Stroll looking to sell up to 25% of his ownership of the team. I could only hope it’s the beginning of the end for both Stroll’s on the team. I know, very wishful thinking. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 1:34:34 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drewptwo: Daddy Stroll looking to sell up to 25% of his ownership of the team. Hopefully it’s means Newey isnt going there |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 1:36:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chaas67: That was a page or two ago. 😁 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chaas67: Originally Posted By CanaryCamaro: No talk of Newey leaving?? That was a page or two ago. 😁 I should have know. Muh bad. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 2:21:22 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drewptwo: Daddy Stroll looking to sell up to 25% of his ownership of the team. It's a smart move. He will make an enormous profit. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 2:35:15 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher214: It's a smart move. He will make an enormous profit. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher214: Originally Posted By drewptwo: Daddy Stroll looking to sell up to 25% of his ownership of the team. It's a smart move. He will make an enormous profit. It should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 10X. Got to imagine this is to placate his consortium of investors (as only one was a billionaire) and fend off the Aramco offers for a while. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 2:42:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Hope it's the 25% the window licker is in.
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Posted: 4/26/2024 3:58:01 PM EDT
[#27]
Leclerc wins in Monaco!!!
 Seriously, this model of Monaco is amazing. The amount of work put into this makes my head hurt ...  Monaco Highlights | 2024 Miniature Grand Prix | Miniatur Wunderland |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 4:53:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Maroonfeather: Hope it's the 25% the window licker is in. Don’t we all? |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:03:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tifosi: Leclerc wins in Monaco!!! Seriously, this model of Monaco is amazing. The amount of work put into this makes my head hurt ...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqT0u6QDJtg |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 5:09:58 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tifosi: Leclerc wins in Monaco!!! Seriously, this model of Monaco is amazing. The amount of work put into this makes my head hurt ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqT0u6QDJtg
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Posted: 4/26/2024 8:00:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RattleCanAR]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Esterhase: I'm enjoying Hulk's renaissance. And Haas' quiet progress. I didn't expect the latter and it's great to see. Yep The HAAS cars aren’t garbage. Routinely beating other mid tier cars and pressuring the big dogs on occasion. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 10:07:37 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher214: despite your general air of arrogance in this thread. Thats just how Brits are. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:28:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Janus]
[#33]
The first race of the Abu Dhabi Autonomous Racing League is on now.
The first race involves the autonomous cars running against Daniil Kvyat.  Inaugural A2RL Race | Yas Marina |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:43:45 AM EDT
[#34]
A documentary from 1981 featuring Williams. It's good to remember Sir Frank Williams (and the team, really) at his athletic best before his accident; not a time known to many that enjoy F1. This was the beginning of the crackdown on Ground Effect (which we enjoy now) and it's interesting how the teams view themselves as categorically British vs. 'the continent' (meaning Ferrari and Renault). The Cosworth DFV was still king, but Ferrari and Renault had turbos that were coming good and the writing was on the wall. Within a couple of years teams would need them to remain competitive. Williams unusually dropped the ball here, sticking with Cosworth until 1984 when they ran the piston-melting Honda.
It's interesting seeing the gearbox cassette change in the garage in what looks like sweltering heat. The mechanics always have it worst. Frank Dernie (he is featured in this at Silverstone) maintains that the banning of ground effect was incredibly dangerous, and the flat-bottom era of 1983-94 produced some aerodynamically difficult cars.  The Grid (Williams F1 documentary) Ground effect era |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:44:49 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Janus: The first race of the Abu Dhabi Autonomous Racing League is on now. The first race involves the autonomous cars running against Daniil Kvyat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZPj9iAWz-4This is a neat idea, I am just not sure what to think of it. With no meatbag on board, you can make some light and cool designs, surely? You only need to worry about spectator safety. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 12:01:36 PM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 4/27/2024 3:55:25 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DCV_117:
Hopefully he still goes though. Would be nice to see Trump walking the grid instead of some POS rapper, although that would be a Secret Service nightmare. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 3:57:25 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Esterhase: This is a neat idea, I am just not sure what to think of it. With no meatbag on board, you can make some light and cool designs, surely? You only need to worry about spectator safety. it completely dismisses the point of motorsport, which is a melding of man and machine. You can't take away the man and still have motorsport. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 4:10:35 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tifosi: I can understand not wanted it to be used as a political fundraiser. I completely agree with that. Hopefully he still goes though. Would be nice to see Trump walking the grid instead of some POS rapper, although that would be a Secret Service nightmare. I think Indycar have done something similar this year. I don't mind it. There's plenty of politics in Motorsport without introducing even more! |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 4:25:00 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tifosi: I can understand not wanted it to be used as a political fundraiser. I completely agree with that. Hopefully he still goes though. Would be nice to see Trump walking the grid instead of some POS rapper, although that would be a Secret Service nightmare. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tifosi: Originally Posted By DCV_117:
Hopefully he still goes though. Would be nice to see Trump walking the grid instead of some POS rapper, although that would be a Secret Service nightmare. Sporting events are always used for political fund raising and shaking hands for votes. F1 is woke and doesn’t like Trump. I watch and enjoy it in spite of the politics. Indy seems to be the most apolitical of the race series but is ghetto compared to most. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 4:49:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tifosi: I watched for 3 minutes, which was 179 seconds too long. Even if AI gets to the point of driving a perfect race, it completely dismisses the point of motorsport, which is a melding of man and machine. You can't take away the man and still have motorsport. I quite agree. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 5:34:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Sporting events are always used for political fund raising and shaking hands for votes. F1 is woke and doesn’t like Trump. I watch and enjoy it in spite of the politics. Indy seems to be the most apolitical of the race series but is ghetto compared to most. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By tifosi: Originally Posted By DCV_117:
Hopefully he still goes though. Would be nice to see Trump walking the grid instead of some POS rapper, although that would be a Secret Service nightmare. Sporting events are always used for political fund raising and shaking hands for votes. F1 is woke and doesn’t like Trump. I watch and enjoy it in spite of the politics. Indy seems to be the most apolitical of the race series but is ghetto compared to most. I’ll stick to my assessment of Hamilton’s nonsense. Politics do not belong with sports. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 6:25:27 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: I’ll stick to my assessment of Hamilton’s nonsense. Politics do not belong with sports. 100% agree but it happens in the suites of every professional sport. The series itself needs to ignore it and not inject anything into it. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 6:36:25 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DCV_117: I think Audi is Sainz's next seat, they'll build the program around him and he wont give a shit he's driving a tractor in 2025. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DCV_117: Originally Posted By Teamer: So Sainz (maybe) and Hulk at Audi. Might be a decent combo. I think Audi is Sainz's next seat, they'll build the program around him and he wont give a shit he's driving a tractor in 2025. I remember Toyota's try at F1. They spent a lot of money and never got the results that were expected. Audi will have to work with the budget cap and try to catch up to the other top teams. Maybe they will be a top team in a few years but there is no guarantee. If Sainz could get a seat at Red Bull next year he would be a fool not to take it. Besides, most F1 drivers think they could win if they were in the fasted car on the grid. Even Perez seems to think that. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 6:36:42 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: I think it is one of those “it depends” A company may follow the driver if they go after individual sales while others are more corporate targeting. The corporate targets stay with the team. I noticed the NASCAR sponsors are garbage small time companies. Also in years past F1 sponsors were often bogus companies. I read some strange articles about it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By chaas67: This is the area of F1 that i hear dribs and drabs of but don’t have a clue of the scope. The little I’ve gathered is that along with the skill of the driver it’s what sponsorships they can bring to the team as well? Do the sponsorships really follow the driver versus the team, seems strange to me. I think it is one of those “it depends” A company may follow the driver if they go after individual sales while others are more corporate targeting. The corporate targets stay with the team. I noticed the NASCAR sponsors are garbage small time companies. Also in years past F1 sponsors were often bogus companies. I read some strange articles about it. Like Rich Energy? |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 6:37:32 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Plumber576: Yes. Alonso already tried. He's back in F1 trying to win a third F1 WDC. Max already has 3 and doesn't seem to me like he's in it to top Schumacher and Hamilton. At his age, if he retires from F1, he'll have loads of time to get a Le Mans and Indy win. He'll have days worth of Sim racing under his belt for each track before he ever drives them under a green flag. I think that's a huge difference between Alonso and Verstappen. Now I'm wondering if he's ever commented on IndyCar, I know many F1 drivers think open-wheel oval-racing is too dangerous. The person I'd most like to see complete it is Montoya. Still have a spark of fandom for him from his CART days. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Plumber576: Originally Posted By chaas67: Is that winning the Indy 500, 24 hrs of Le Mans and Monaco? Yes. Originally Posted By Mblades: That would be cool to see but I think ALO will beat him to it and it will lose its appeal. Alonso already tried. He's back in F1 trying to win a third F1 WDC. Max already has 3 and doesn't seem to me like he's in it to top Schumacher and Hamilton. At his age, if he retires from F1, he'll have loads of time to get a Le Mans and Indy win. He'll have days worth of Sim racing under his belt for each track before he ever drives them under a green flag. I think that's a huge difference between Alonso and Verstappen. Now I'm wondering if he's ever commented on IndyCar, I know many F1 drivers think open-wheel oval-racing is too dangerous. The person I'd most like to see complete it is Montoya. Still have a spark of fandom for him from his CART days. Montoya is 48, he isn't coming back to F1. I did enjoy his post race comments back in the day. He would say things that Kimi would think twice about. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 6:47:06 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Esterhase: In a way. After he signed for Ferrari in 1995, the then editor of F1 racing magazine (Tony Dodgins, if my memory is right) declared in the season preview edition that Schumacher would be champion, such was the hype around his ability. The fact he tended to be well ahead of his teammates at Benetton (with the notable exception of Martin Brundle) created this mythology around him. I saw fans on Internet forums saying he could win in any car on the grid. It is just not true. He was the best around for a long time, but given what we can observer about Alonso, and all the sport science around aging, exactly how much speed did he lose during 2007-2009? It can't have been that much. He was still supremely fit (the yardstick for so long, in fact) and yet, he looked absolutely ordinary vs Rosberg, the entire time they were teammates. You can only conclude two things: He'd lost some pace, and Rosberg was that good. Either way, there was an expectation that he would immediately be winning races, even with the early acknowledgement the 2010 Mercedes wasn't competitive. Senna, by comparison, also preferred 'tame' teammates. He famously vetoed Derek Warwick from joining Lotus, because he was worried (probably rightly so) that the team could not run two cars with the same focus. When Hakkinen out-qualified him on debut in 1993 in Portugal, it lit an enormous fire under him, and he won the final two races of the season. It was psychologically devastating to see him wobble at Williams in the first two GPs; it's difficult to explain unless you were taking it all in at the time. There were people talking about him winning every single race. Of Course, he can't overcome a difficult car. The laws of physics are always going to be the bound. I am seeing similar proclamations about Max. It's a different story when you don't have a competitive car. ETA, this is without mentioning Vettel and the weird collapse in form he had in what was still a Newey-penned car. Newey is another outstanding performer, but he cannot create miracles. John Barnard was similarly lauded, and it was his 1996 Ferrari that the helped build the notion that Michael Schumacher could win in a wheelbarrow, which was jolly unkind to both him and Barnard. The unloved F310 had some excellent details, a superb V10, the first steering wheel that moved all the driver tunables to the wheel center, and ultimately was a winning car in its first year. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Esterhase: Originally Posted By Mblades: I don’t think Schumacher is a good example of that. He won 2 with Benetton then went to a dog shit Ferrari team and helped them succeeded like never before or since. More often than not the best drivers find themselves in the best car, it takes both to be dominant. In a way. After he signed for Ferrari in 1995, the then editor of F1 racing magazine (Tony Dodgins, if my memory is right) declared in the season preview edition that Schumacher would be champion, such was the hype around his ability. The fact he tended to be well ahead of his teammates at Benetton (with the notable exception of Martin Brundle) created this mythology around him. I saw fans on Internet forums saying he could win in any car on the grid. It is just not true. He was the best around for a long time, but given what we can observer about Alonso, and all the sport science around aging, exactly how much speed did he lose during 2007-2009? It can't have been that much. He was still supremely fit (the yardstick for so long, in fact) and yet, he looked absolutely ordinary vs Rosberg, the entire time they were teammates. You can only conclude two things: He'd lost some pace, and Rosberg was that good. Either way, there was an expectation that he would immediately be winning races, even with the early acknowledgement the 2010 Mercedes wasn't competitive. Senna, by comparison, also preferred 'tame' teammates. He famously vetoed Derek Warwick from joining Lotus, because he was worried (probably rightly so) that the team could not run two cars with the same focus. When Hakkinen out-qualified him on debut in 1993 in Portugal, it lit an enormous fire under him, and he won the final two races of the season. It was psychologically devastating to see him wobble at Williams in the first two GPs; it's difficult to explain unless you were taking it all in at the time. There were people talking about him winning every single race. Of Course, he can't overcome a difficult car. The laws of physics are always going to be the bound. I am seeing similar proclamations about Max. It's a different story when you don't have a competitive car. ETA, this is without mentioning Vettel and the weird collapse in form he had in what was still a Newey-penned car. Newey is another outstanding performer, but he cannot create miracles. John Barnard was similarly lauded, and it was his 1996 Ferrari that the helped build the notion that Michael Schumacher could win in a wheelbarrow, which was jolly unkind to both him and Barnard. The unloved F310 had some excellent details, a superb V10, the first steering wheel that moved all the driver tunables to the wheel center, and ultimately was a winning car in its first year. Rosberg did beat Hamilton for the championship and wasn't too far behind the other two years they were teammates. So, yeah, I would say Rosberg was pretty good. He also out did Michael Schumacher at Mercedes during Schumacher's return to F1. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 7:15:50 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By not_sure: Rosberg did beat Hamilton for the championship and wasn't too far behind the other two years they were teammates. So, yeah, I would say Rosberg was pretty good. He also out did Michael Schumacher at Mercedes during Schumacher's return to F1. It never stops moving. Talent is coming up all the time, and they're usually really good. I think one thing that defined Schumacher 2.0 is that he did not matter to the other drivers; they could easily handle him. It wasn't always true 1991-2006. There is a lesser known story though; it was Schumacher that gave Mercedes board a come-to-Jesus moment, in that he persuaded them to stop light-footing their effort and really get behind the project. Also, Jock Clear (who famously could not stand Schumacher at Ferrari, Clear being Villeneuve's race engineer) came to absolutely admire Schumacher at Mercedes, such was his work ethic. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 8:25:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Esterhase]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By not_sure: Montoya is 48, he isn't coming back to F1. I did enjoy his post race comments back in the day. He would say things that Kimi would think twice about. Him coming to F1 was, for my money, the best possible thing at exactly the right time. He was the most impressive debut since Schumacher a decade earlier; he was just explosively good. Nobody is going to forget him putting some manners on Michael at Interlagos; that just did not happen, and he didn't give a fuck. Williams loved him, and rightly so. I was gutted he didn't take the WDC in 2003; he really deserved a title in F1. I understand 'deserved' has nothing to do with it, but he was probably the last driver before Max that came in with such a bang. For all those reasons I cannot understand why he went to McLaren, the least JPM team ever. ETA if you have F1TV have a look at the 2001 Archives. There's some great racing in there, plus V10s, the return of traction control (it didn't really go away according to some theories...) and who doesn't love that? |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 9:29:11 PM EDT
[#50]
Originally Posted By not_sure: Montoya is 48, he isn't coming back to F1. I did enjoy his post race comments back in the day. He would say things that Kimi would think twice about. Luckily he already won Monaco in '03 and Indy 500 in '00 and '15. He just needs a top Le Mans ride to secure his Triple Crown. Originally Posted By Esterhase: Him coming to F1 was, for my money, the best possible thing at exactly the right time. He was the most impressive debut since Schumacher a decade earlier; he was just explosively good. Nobody is going to forget him putting some manners on Michael at Interlagos; that just did not happen, and he didn't give a fuck. Williams loved him, and rightly so. I was gutted he didn't take the WDC in 2003; he really deserved a title in F1. I understand 'deserved' has nothing to do with it, but he was probably the last driver before Max that came in with such a bang. For all those reasons I cannot understand why he went to McLaren, the least JPM team ever. ETA if you have F1TV have a look at the 2001 Archives. There's some great racing in there, plus V10s, the return of traction control (it didn't really go away according to some theories...) and who doesn't love that? Yeah, loved him in CART and enjoyed that he walked into F1 with the same attitude. He could be a young hothead but had loads of talent. |
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