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Posted: 5/20/2023 8:41:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: EBR-Okie]
Buddy and I cut down some big osage orange trees about a month ago. I took some smaller logs and tried to make boards on my bandsaw. I could not get a straight cut no matter what I tried. I even put a brand new wood slicer blade on. I finally decided I must have something wrong with my setup. Today we put a big log on the sawmill and had the same result. We have cut lots oak, hickory, pecan etc. with no problems, but this stuff was impossible. It's really unique and pretty wood but we might have to take it to someone with a circular blade mill.I have a few pieces that I think I can mill and make usable.
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Link Posted: 5/20/2023 9:03:12 PM EDT
[#1]
I've never worked with it but I've heard some second hand stories about it destroying band saw blades and just being generally too hard to machine. My understanding is the drier it gets the harder it gets. If that's true, now's your chance.
Link Posted: 5/20/2023 9:04:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Throw the scap pieces in your fire pit for a little snap crackle pop.
Link Posted: 5/20/2023 9:14:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By villageidiot:
I've never worked with it but I've heard some second hand stories about it destroying band saw blades and just being generally too hard to machine. My understanding is the drier it gets the harder it gets. If that's true, now's your chance.
View Quote

I am familiar with how hard it gets over time. There are fence posts around that are at least 70 or 80 years old, and you can not even drive a nail in them. We are hoping to get something done with it as soon as possible.
Link Posted: 5/20/2023 9:20:23 PM EDT
[#4]
I grew up in southern OK (in NE OK now), long before steel T-posts were a thing. Lots of Osage Orange (Bois D’ Arc) down there. My dad built fence using “Bo Darc” (as he called it) fence posts. He said he knew of OO posts that had been in the ground for 50 yrs. that were still good. After it seasons, it’s almost impossible to hammer a fence staple into in.

Decades ago I subscribed to Shooting Times magazine. There was a writer in ST that was in CA and was making revolver grips out of OO and commented on how hard it was to work with.

I have no experience with it as lumber, as most were cut down for posts long before they were as large as the one in your pic.

I’ve heard of it being used in making of traditional long bows, but haven’t seen one in person.
Link Posted: 5/20/2023 9:31:13 PM EDT
[#5]
I’ve got a guy I grew up with making traditional longbows  out of Osage.

If you’re so inclined, OrganicArcher on the IG. Correy is a good dude.
Link Posted: 5/20/2023 9:50:07 PM EDT
[#6]
I have turned a couple bowls out of osage orange.  Got the blanks on ebay.
Its really very nice looking due to the color after its turned.   The grain is nothing special, like ash I guess - well defined growth rings.
But the color doesn't stay.  It will eventually turn a dark brown as its exposed to air, maybe light,  and then I find its nothing all that special.  
Maybe needs a hard seal like some kind of epoxy to help it keep the yellow-orange color?
Link Posted: 5/20/2023 10:07:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Fantastic firewood.
Link Posted: 5/20/2023 10:16:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Good firewood once it dries, and great for posts. Rough on saws though and I’ve never tried to do anything else with it
Link Posted: 5/20/2023 10:21:55 PM EDT
[#9]
I’ve made a few self bows with Osage.
Pretty desirable material with the primitive archery community.
Link Posted: 5/20/2023 10:56:14 PM EDT
[#10]
I grew up cutting it for firewood and fence posts.   The old home place farm has a pile of 2nds fence posts where the bottom of the pile is probably 60-80 years old.  Dad pulled a bunch out and gave them to me for firewood.  Still hard on a a chainsaw after 60 years.  

There used to be miles and miles of fence line in MO, IA, NE, KS, OK...planted during and right after the dust bowl.  Wind blocks to keep the soil from blowing away.   The bark will catch dust and dirt...and barbed wire.  All of it eats up saw chains.   Almost all the hedge rows are gone now as small farms get bought up either as suburbs or bigger farms.  Most of the old folks that remember planting them are gone now.  So we as a nation work to repeat history.

I gave 2, 4' logs to a work buddy that does woodworking as a hobby.  He said it worked fine with carbide cutters he uses.
Link Posted: 5/21/2023 4:50:39 AM EDT
[#11]
I make a lot of stuff from it, actually kind of my woodworking niche.  

You're right, it's an amazing wood but almost impossible to find commercially milled (I'm lucky to have a source).  Contrary to legend, it's not all that difficult to work with in the shop, but super messy.  A couple of caveats with it:  sunlight immediately starts to fade the bright orange/yellow color to a honey brown, then eventually to an almost walnut-like dark brown, then on to gray after a few years of exposure.

And if you make things like cutting boards, etc., note that OO is also used as a dye, and will continue to act in that capacity as a cutting board if you don't finish it properly.  That means ugly yellow stains on countertops or whatever.  Once it's washed a few times and sealed up well with an oil/was mix, though, it makes great cutting boards.

It is the hardest native American hardwood, and as noted, will last virtually forever outside with no treatment whatsoever.
Link Posted: 5/22/2023 11:18:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 5/23/2023 4:42:38 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:



This is interesting to me.

Is it harder than Ironwood? (Ostrya Virginiana)

I've never done anything with Ostrya virginiana, but I've tried to split Osage Orange for firewood.

Osage Orange was stringy and really difficult to split (by hand).  It was great firewood once I got it apart, but it wasn't easy.

Never even considered using it for woodworking because of that. I assumed it would be difficult to cut and shape as well (not that I am experienced. I am not. )

Folks here consider Osage Orange to be a weed tree.  Now I have to learn more about it.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:
Originally Posted By midmo:
I make a lot of stuff from it, actually kind of my woodworking niche.  

You're right, it's an amazing wood but almost impossible to find commercially milled (I'm lucky to have a source).  Contrary to legend, it's not all that difficult to work with in the shop, but super messy.  A couple of caveats with it:  sunlight immediately starts to fade the bright orange/yellow color to a honey brown, then eventually to an almost walnut-like dark brown, then on to gray after a few years of exposure.

And if you make things like cutting boards, etc., note that OO is also used as a dye, and will continue to act in that capacity as a cutting board if you don't finish it properly.  That means ugly yellow stains on countertops or whatever.  Once it's washed a few times and sealed up well with an oil/was mix, though, it makes great cutting boards.

It is the hardest native American hardwood, and as noted, will last virtually forever outside with no treatment whatsoever.



This is interesting to me.

Is it harder than Ironwood? (Ostrya Virginiana)

I've never done anything with Ostrya virginiana, but I've tried to split Osage Orange for firewood.

Osage Orange was stringy and really difficult to split (by hand).  It was great firewood once I got it apart, but it wasn't easy.

Never even considered using it for woodworking because of that. I assumed it would be difficult to cut and shape as well (not that I am experienced. I am not. )

Folks here consider Osage Orange to be a weed tree.  Now I have to learn more about it.

There's a rating called the Janka scale that lists the hardness of different wood species.  Ostrya virginiana comes in at 1860, Osage Orange at 2620.  

It's pretty interesting stuff.  I'm figuring out what kind of epoxy "inlay" and what to make out of some pieces like this:



Link Posted: 5/23/2023 9:03:02 AM EDT
[#14]
I’ve seen seasoned Osage staves sell for $150 to $200.

Link Posted: 5/23/2023 8:24:14 PM EDT
[#15]
See the trees every day.  Have yet to been able to locate a chunk of it. I want to make a mallet head out of it.  Need a 7x7x12” piece of jt.  

Frustrating.

Yes it is very dense and hard. It’s the only wood natural to my area that I do not have a mallet made out of.
Link Posted: 5/24/2023 12:26:25 AM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 5/24/2023 12:30:51 AM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 6/9/2023 8:46:40 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By midmo:

There's a rating called the Janka scale that lists the hardness of different wood species.  Ostrya virginiana comes in at 1860, Osage Orange at 2620.  

It's pretty interesting stuff.  I'm figuring out what kind of epoxy "inlay" and what to make out of some pieces like this:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/219829/oo1-2826096.png


View Quote


I have a bunch of IPE which is rated at 3510. so much harder than Osage Orange. Its no big deal to work with.
I'd say its easy to work with myself. Rather work with a harder wood than something like pine that dents when you sneeze at it.
Link Posted: 6/14/2023 10:12:16 AM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DirtyDirk:


I have a bunch of IPE which is rated at 3510. so much harder than Osage Orange. Its no big deal to work with.
I'd say its easy to work with myself. Rather work with a harder wood than something like pine that dents when you sneeze at it.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DirtyDirk:
Originally Posted By midmo:

There's a rating called the Janka scale that lists the hardness of different wood species.  Ostrya virginiana comes in at 1860, Osage Orange at 2620.  

It's pretty interesting stuff.  I'm figuring out what kind of epoxy "inlay" and what to make out of some pieces like this:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/219829/oo1-2826096.png




I have a bunch of IPE which is rated at 3510. so much harder than Osage Orange. Its no big deal to work with.
I'd say its easy to work with myself. Rather work with a harder wood than something like pine that dents when you sneeze at it.

I don't really have any trouble with OO either.  Sharp tools and it works pretty nicely.
Link Posted: 6/14/2023 10:28:45 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By midmo:

I don't really have any trouble with OO either.  Sharp tools and it works pretty nicely.
View Quote



Yea, I think that the hardness of different types of wood is vastly over exaggerated.

Other than petrified wood they all cut easily with modern equipment.

Link Posted: 6/14/2023 10:42:51 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DirtyDirk:

Yea, I think that the hardness of different types of wood is vastly over exaggerated.

Other than petrified wood they all cut easily with modern equipment.

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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DirtyDirk:
Originally Posted By midmo:

I don't really have any trouble with OO either.  Sharp tools and it works pretty nicely.

Yea, I think that the hardness of different types of wood is vastly over exaggerated.

Other than petrified wood they all cut easily with modern equipment.


It's all relative.  The hardest wood is no match for the softest steel and carbide.  You definitely notice the difference when you try to do something like drive a nail into it though.

I just like Osage Orange because it's got such an interesting history and characteristics, and yet you hear virtually nothing about it from woodworkers today.
Link Posted: 10/17/2023 11:01:18 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 10/18/2023 2:27:56 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:
@midmo

What did you decide to do with the piece you pictured?

View Quote

Still have it, just like that.  I've got tons of little bits and pieces of wood scraps that I've picked up here and there, stacked up waiting for them to tell me what they want to be.
Link Posted: 10/18/2023 10:42:01 PM EDT
[#24]
It turns wonderfully. It also glows under black light.
Link Posted: 11/4/2023 7:47:29 PM EDT
[#25]
I've made well over 100 osage selfbows.  As you've probably discovered, it develops drying checks very quickly.  I always took a can of shellac when I would cut osage for bows.  The moment it hit the ground, I'd start slathering the fresh cut with several coats as a moisture barrier to minimize checks.  You have to be careful with fresh flat surfaces, too, especially the sapwood.  Slather any flat (sawn) surfaces in shellac as well.

And yes, it's a bear to reduce on a bandsaw.  You'll probably need a legit sawmill with a giant cirular blade to cut big stuff.    I'd split a log into staves, strip the bark and sapwood with a drawknife, seal that surface, pencil a line that followed the grain, and then trim the log split into more workable staves.  Again, I'd re-seal the ends and outer surface with more shellac.  From there, you can let it cure a year or two, or put it in a hotbox to facilitate drying.  I would imagine that it's a real SOB to turn into wide, usable planks for tables and such.  Finding straight enough grain, having drying checks, and warping are real issues with osage.

It's very hard, but actually works wonderfully with the correct hand tools.  It's extremely strong in both tension and compression, which is one of the properties that makes it a premier bow wood.  It also has natural antifungals, which it why it will last a lifetime as a fencepost.  Maybe 1 in 50 trees is straight enough, however, to use for bows.  As firewood, I recall it has the highest BTUs of any wood in North America, with some wood stove manufactures stating they will void their warranty if osage is burned in them.

Btw, I've never cut an osage tree as big as the one in your pic.  No way I'd want to try splitting something like that with a maul and wedges, as you'd need team of fit men, pounding for hours on it.
Link Posted: 11/4/2023 8:06:02 PM EDT
[#26]
Osage is pretty good for making bows.
Link Posted: 11/9/2023 6:35:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BT1989] [#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CoreShot:
I’ve made a few self bows with Osage.
Pretty desirable material with the primitive archery community.
View Quote


Same, although I suck as a bowyer. I've got a stave in my garage that's been seasoning for going on 6 years now that I keep forgetting to get around to.  If I were OP I'd tinker with making some.
Link Posted: 11/9/2023 6:50:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: midmo] [#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Quicky06:
See the trees every day.  Have yet to been able to locate a chunk of it. I want to make a mallet head out of it.  Need a 7x7x12” piece of jt.  

Frustrating.

Yes it is very dense and hard. It’s the only wood natural to my area that I do not have a mallet made out of.
View Quote

Big chunky pieces of OO dried properly are even harder to find than milled boards... it has to be dried very carefully to minimize the warping and checking.
You could do a laminated OO mallet head though.  If you can't find even ~1" stock locally I could probably help you source that.

@Quicky06

ETA: and you should post some mallet pics!
Link Posted: 11/10/2023 9:33:27 AM EDT
[#29]
Link Posted: 11/22/2023 1:11:31 AM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Webdood:
Osage is pretty good for making bows.
View Quote



I've read that the Indian nations actually used it as currency because it was so universally fungible.
Link Posted: 12/23/2023 1:01:10 AM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Quicky06:
See the trees every day.  Have yet to been able to locate a chunk of it. I want to make a mallet head out of it.  Need a 7x7x12” piece of jt.  

Frustrating.

Yes it is very dense and hard. It’s the only wood natural to my area that I do not have a mallet made out of.
View Quote


https://exoticwoodsusa.com/order_Argentine_osage_orange.htm

@Quicky06. These guys usually have blocks available.
Link Posted: 12/23/2023 7:47:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: EBR666] [#32]
I don't know what mill you have. But to cut that stuff see if you and find a carbide tipped blade. My mil uses a 144 inch blade.

I got one from HERE for $200. Price is high but will do the job. Go slow to keep blade from deflecting.  the blade:  Engineered for Extended Life and Optimal Speed
Effectively cuts exotic or difficult to machine wood.
Link Posted: 12/23/2023 7:52:48 AM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gsd1983:
I've got a guy I grew up with making traditional longbows  out of Osage.
View Quote
Yep, made a long bow many moons ago out of OO.  Was a fun project and one learns the beauty of sharp tools.
Link Posted: 12/25/2023 12:40:25 AM EDT
[#34]
This bodark pipe that a member here made for me is nice.

Link Posted: 1/15/2024 4:46:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SigOwner_P229] [#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheLineIsReady:
As firewood, I recall it has the highest BTUs of any wood in North America, with some wood stove manufactures stating they will void their warranty if osage is burned in them.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheLineIsReady:
As firewood, I recall it has the highest BTUs of any wood in North America, with some wood stove manufactures stating they will void their warranty if osage is burned in them.

My experience burning it is that it's very hard to burn bc it's so dense. I never cold start with OO because it's nearly impossible.  Even on a bed of hot coals it can be hard to get going, and once going it burns slow, and no hotter than other woods (lasts much longer though).


Originally Posted By TheLineIsReady:
Btw, I've never cut an osage tree as big as the one in your pic.  No way I'd want to try splitting something like that with a maul and wedges, as you'd need team of fit men, pounding for hours on it.

I've hand split OO trees the size of OP's picture. There's a sweet spot around 3-4 weeks after cutting where it's soft enough inside but has developed enough checks that you can split at the largest end checks and get it. It's easier than splitting hickory or elm by hand. Splitting fresh cut isn't happening, wedges & axe will just bounce right out because it's soft but extremely strong. You need the wood on the end to be hard (so split force is translated down the grain). Splitting dried/hard OO can be challenging as well, but still easier than hickory and elm.
Link Posted: 1/17/2024 12:19:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: midmo] [#36]
Note that if you build something out of osage orange, the color you start with may not be what you end up with.  The light yellow/orange color fades with exposure to light and air, eventually to a deep chocolate brown.  Years of exposure outdoors will eventually turn it gray.

This is a piece from my shop that was screwed to a piece of plywood to square up and edge.  The dark half is what was left overhanging the plywood (and exposed to light).

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