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Posted: 5/6/2024 1:06:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Hesperus]
There’s a few outfits making stocked or braced pistols and chassis systems. Do any police departments in this country use these things? I seem to recall hearing that the ones that B&T were making were originally for police use in Europe.
 Attached File Attached FileThese things. I can see them being potentially useful where a more accurate shot is needed. The utility of such a thing seems to lie in the fact that when not in use they fit in a holster. But from my own very casual research. Said holsters are somewhat rare and very expensive. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 1:08:53 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm sure there were braces floating around smaller departments where officers furnished or were allowed to furnish their own duty rifles.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 1:10:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Lack of practical holster option keeps me from carrying one at work.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 1:13:22 PM EDT
[#3]
I can only imagine officer Tiffany flipping it open and catching it right in the eyeball.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 1:21:36 PM EDT
[#4]
I have never seen them used 8n policing, but I'm sure someone has.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 1:31:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Civilians don't need those weapons of war on our streets.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 1:32:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 20229mm: I can only imagine officer Tiffany flipping it open and catching it right in the eyeball. Knowing females officers, that is likely not the only thing she’s catching in the eye. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 1:37:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MilitaryJoe]
[#7]
No PD that I know of. I have a few different brands of chassis's though and rather enjoy them. Dagger Compact, G23 and G17 are what I have in them. One is a rifle set up with the 16" barrel and stock. The others have braces.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 1:39:03 PM EDT
[#8]
I carry mine regularly. Not a LEO though.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 3:37:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Originally Posted By Hesperus: I can see them being potentially useful where a more accurate shot is needed. The utility of such a thing seems to lie in the fact that when not in use they fit in a holster. But from my own very casual research. Said holsters are somewhat rare and very expensive. I have the 320 version, and have shot it in the chassis in competitions both as a pistol and with the stock deployed as a PCC. I also have and shoot other similar pdw type stuff (MP5k, Flux Raider, Sig Rattler, etc). I'm not a cop so don't have any input for how they would/could use one so I'm just speaking as an armed American here. From a holster, it can be drawn and shot as a pistol. The draw is a little funky with the extra beavertail, but easily trained around. It can be concealed, but again, the long beavertail makes it a chore to do so. You're right that it is more accurate with a stock. The 320 version at least suffers compared to something like the Flux Raider in that you're using a slide mounted reciprocating dot that's about 3 inches from your face. Useable, but not fun. On the spectrum of small concealable pistol to nice useable rifle, stocked pistols are just a bit too close to the "pistol" side of the equation without additional benefit. I am more accurate with it at distance, but not dramatically so than just bracing myself against something and taking a regular pistol shot at distance if I need to. It's faster than a pistol up close in things like steel challenge/uspsa, but not hugely faster. I had hopes it would work well as a wife gun, as in something my wife could use competently since dry firing, competition and training hold little interest for her. Compared to something like a flux raider or a MP5k, it fails here too. I like mine and have no plans to get rid of it, but it doesn't do the "increased capability" thing as well as most any other pcc/pdw type option out there, IMO....which is why I think the idea has been around as long as pistols have and keeps being retried to learn the same lessons. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 3:42:49 PM EDT
[#10]
If there was a quality holster option I would be willing to give one a try.
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USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 3:45:21 PM EDT
[#11]
I know of several officers with personally owned braced AR pistols in their patrol car.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 3:45:33 PM EDT
[#12]
I'd imagine the extra bulk and the rarity of actual use would make stocked handguns pretty rare in police circles.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 3:46:12 PM EDT
[#13]
None that I know of, but I can say several of the local cops have personally-owned, braced, AR-15 pistols in their cars. I'd guess it's a 50-50 between 5.56 and 300BO.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 3:48:11 PM EDT
[#14]
We demo'd them and we have a few. Guys wanted an option for specific restricted areas where rifles did not want to be left around but they wanted a carbine type option for increased accuracy. I preferred a more secure rifle option, but they made a successful argument that these chassis could be laying anywhere and there is no weapon gained if a suspect was to get a hold of one.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 3:49:47 PM EDT
[#15]
What's old is new again.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 3:49:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74novaman: I have the 320 version, and have shot it in the chassis in competitions both as a pistol and with the stock deployed as a PCC. I also have and shoot other similar pdw type stuff (MP5k, Flux Raider, Sig Rattler, etc). I'm not a cop so don't have any input for how they would/could use one so I'm just speaking as an armed American here. From a holster, it can be drawn and shot as a pistol. The draw is a little funky with the extra beavertail, but easily trained around. It can be concealed, but again, the long beavertail makes it a chore to do so. You're right that it is more accurate with a stock. The 320 version at least suffers compared to something like the Flux Raider in that you're using a slide mounted reciprocating dot that's about 3 inches from your face. Useable, but not fun. On the spectrum of small concealable pistol to nice useable rifle, stocked pistols are just a bit too close to the "pistol" side of the equation without additional benefit. I am more accurate with it at distance, but not dramatically so than just bracing myself against something and taking a regular pistol shot at distance if I need to. It's faster than a pistol up close in things like steel challenge/uspsa, but not hugely faster. I had hopes it would work well as a wife gun, as in something my wife could use competently since dry firing, competition and training hold little interest for her. Compared to something like a flux raider or a MP5k, it fails here too. I like mine and have no plans to get rid of it, but it doesn't do the "increased capability" thing as well as most any other pcc/pdw type option out there, IMO....which is why I think the idea has been around as long as pistols have and keeps being retried to learn the same lessons. lol Bought a USW for a 320 last night |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 3:51:33 PM EDT
[#17]
With all the shit an officer already has to carry on their belt, I'd imagine very few want to deal with yet another thing bulking up their holster and making it a bitch to get in and out of their car or sit in a chair.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 3:52:13 PM EDT
[#18]
That's the kind of thing that should be sold with the holster included, IMO.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 4:04:06 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kuraki: What's old is new again. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/125898/PM63C-4-3207151.jpg Return to Spectre 50 round coffin quad stacks. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 4:05:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: iwouldntknow]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher214: With all the shit an officer already has to carry on their belt, I'd imagine very few want to deal with yet another thing bulking up their holster and making it a bitch to get in and out of their car or sit in a chair. Especially when 99% of their calls are pure bull Shit babysitting for adults that don't know how to resolve problems without resorting to the police state. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 4:18:45 PM EDT
[#21]
I used a braced pistol AR at my old department. They had a kitten over the "rule change". My department issue at my new agency is a 16 incher.
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TN, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 4:28:19 PM EDT
[#22]
99.9% of Police work has nothing to do with firearms
and how would that thing holster on a duty belt? If I needed my carbine, then I would bring my carbine. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 4:30:21 PM EDT
[#23]
10+ years ago I recall seeing israeli civilians and possibly plain clothes cops carrying glock 17s with this stock while walking around the Old City of Jerusalem.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 4:34:16 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iwouldntknow: Return to Spectre 50 round coffin quad stacks. I like where your head is. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 4:36:49 PM EDT
[#25]
Around the mid 2000's I was with a sheriff's office in SW Florida. We had the option of being issued one of those Mako stocks for our duty guns (Glock 22). Had to take some sort of certification course for it first. This was before patrol rifles were common in that agency.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 4:57:29 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bradpierson26: lol Bought a USW for a 320 last night Which part was lol? |
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USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 5:05:27 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NachoDip: I carry mine regularly. Not a LEO though. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/77421/IMG_3919-3207022.jpg Do you have the holster that fits it? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 5:14:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Maybe as an SRO it would be useful, but from a patrol standpoint I'd rather my guys deploy their rifle if they need something to reach out further.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 5:54:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74novaman: I have the 320 version, and have shot it in the chassis in competitions both as a pistol and with the stock deployed as a PCC. I also have and shoot other similar pdw type stuff (MP5k, Flux Raider, Sig Rattler, etc). ... I appreciate that reply. It confirms to me what I’ve learned over the years that stocks/braces with minimal check weld (I’m looking at you AMD-65) generally suck. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 6:13:29 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kuraki: What's old is new again. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/125898/PM63C-4-3207151.jpg Not really pistol but machine pistol. And I'm building one. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 6:26:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Mp7's drug addicted brother.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 6:35:04 PM EDT
[#32]
I would think it would hinder use and make for slower draw and deployment for the vast majority of shootings just to benefit for a very small amount of the time.
I wouldn't want one. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 6:35:47 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scott_S: I appreciate that reply. It confirms to me what I’ve learned over the years that stocks/braces with minimal check weld (I’m looking at you AMD-65) generally suck. Its absolutely better than just a pistol. Barely. But its a neat concept. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 6:49:58 PM EDT
[#34]
Why would a cop carry one of those? Too bulky for belt carry and if you need a long arm, a rifle would do the job better. Those would make a decent nightstand, bump in the night option.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 6:54:56 PM EDT
[#35]
It's all the worst things about a pistol and all of the worst things about a rifle in one cumbersome package. No idea why every police and military unit doesn't use these.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 6:56:06 PM EDT
[#36]
I'm not aware of any agencies using them
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Posted: 5/6/2024 6:56:20 PM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 5/6/2024 7:15:42 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scott_S: I appreciate that reply. It confirms to me what I've learned over the years that stocks/braces with minimal check weld (I'm looking at you AMD-65) generally suck. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scott_S: Originally Posted By 74novaman: I have the 320 version, and have shot it in the chassis in competitions both as a pistol and with the stock deployed as a PCC. I also have and shoot other similar pdw type stuff (MP5k, Flux Raider, Sig Rattler, etc). ... I appreciate that reply. It confirms to me what I've learned over the years that stocks/braces with minimal check weld (I'm looking at you AMD-65) generally suck.  Attached File |
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USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 7:39:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CTM1]
[#39]
This was not practical and I do even see a Glock with a stock as practical or quickly deployable as a side arm.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 7:42:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Deadtired]
[#40]
Too big for a handgun that will get carried everywhere, so it's going to live in the vehicle. And if it lives in the vehicle, it might as well be a rifle.
It's funny how people keep returning to the stocked pistol concept. There were flintlock stocked pistols. There were BP revolver stocked pistols. Everything from the Borchardt C93 to the Browning Hi Power had stock options. There's truly nothing new under the sun. I think the most successful designs allowed the handgun to be separated from the stock (they used a holster stock or similar) rather than having a folding/collapsing stock permanently on the gun. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 7:48:27 PM EDT
[#41]
The Brazilian police modified their shoulder-stocked Schnellfeuers and used them till the 1980's ..... called them the PASAM
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Posted: 5/6/2024 7:56:36 PM EDT
[#42]
There are a lot of valid complaints about the concept and the glock based ones do look bulkier but the usw320 is absolutely not too bulky to belt carry.
Some pictures for reference  The usw320 is the same size as a vz61.  The long beavertail makes the draw different, but especially if you’re not trying to conceal it its not a hard gun to carry on a belt mounted holster. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 8:01:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Not LEO, but SOCOM is going to be messing with Flux Raiders, allegedly.
*NOT SOCOM PICTURED*  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 8:14:46 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 5/6/2024 8:25:54 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eli822: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/523/IMG_8584_jpeg-3207430.JPG SOCOM guns? |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 9:40:16 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JDatTOA: Do you have the holster that fits it? Slung under the shoulder on a QD. Not actually a holster but completely invisible under a jacket. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 9:55:22 PM EDT
[#47]
 Attached FileWonder if a Chief of Police would mind an officer coming to work in cowboy boots and one of these? |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 10:02:10 PM EDT
[#48]
Not exactly the same but used a braced 11.5 AR pistol for my patrol rifle for a long time.
Transitioned over to a 14.5 recently thou. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 10:15:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Hesperus]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlabamaFan64: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/332226/IMG_0274_jpeg-3207560.JPG Wonder if a Chief of Police would mind an officer coming to work in cowboy boots and one of these? "Well yeehaw cowpoke! You sure that's going to go bang every time? You really want to deal with the cloud of smoke those things make? Well alright then, I suppose we can put you on mounted parade duty to show off that big iron of yours." What I hear when I imagine that interaction.  Minute of Mae: Colt Paterson Revolver No.5 |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 11:42:50 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote History]Originally Posted By joekizanyu: amd65tech.com makes a cheek riser that improves the AMD-65 (and other minimal cheek weld rifles) by at least 87% I suppose that is an 87% improvement! I haven’t built an AK kit in at least a dozen years. That was before I learned to weld. Had I built my AMD-65 yesterday I would have welded my own cheek riser. Hell, now I want to build another ‘65. |
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