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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/16/2024 10:55:13 AM EDT
https://www.bibleref.com/2-Peter/1/2-Peter-1-19.html
Lee Brainerd on YouTube who is a pretty big Bible prophecy guy translated a bunch of Latin Texxts etc. so he’s not just a goofball. He sees that maybe this verse could be a reference to us getting the inkling that Jesus gonna show up that day to take the church home before the seven year starts? Any of you guys ever heard anything like this or heard it translated that way or interpreted? Would be super interesting if so I mean chances are you wouldn’t go to work that day there and you were just hang out at Walmart or wherever saying this is that guy is you better figure it out! |
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Posted: 2/16/2024 11:08:43 AM EDT
[#1]
Matthew 24:35-36. Jesus says “35 “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. 36 But no one knows the day or the hour. No! Not even the angels in heaven know. The Son does not know. Only the Father knows.”
The following verses continue the theme. Anyone who says they know the day is wrong. |
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Posted: 2/16/2024 2:31:26 PM EDT
[#2]
OP: How about a link. A search on Youtube shows lots of various videos by Brainard.
Your tenuous grasp of grammar and punctuation makes it a bit difficult to follow where you're going here. Are you arguing that Brainard is stating that 2 Peter claims that the saints will be taken up to heaven prior to the 7 years of tribulation? Isn't this a typical pre-trib view? Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't really worry about pre- or post-trib distinction, since we can't change this. The last part of 2 Peter 1:19 says: until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: (KJV) Your last paragraph does not improve in clarity. Assuming the pre-trib view, that doesn't give you or Brainard any indication of the exact day of His returning. And even if you knew the date of his returning, an idea the scriptures clearly refute (see SideCarGT), you're going to not go to work that day and instead go "just hang out at Wal-mart"?????? |
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USA
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Posted: 2/16/2024 3:20:16 PM EDT
[#3]
“The rapture” as it known colloquially, isn’t biblical
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LBR
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Posted: 2/16/2024 4:48:45 PM EDT
[#4]
I believe the "Rapture" takes place at death.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/16/2024 8:34:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FennRx: “The rapture” as it known colloquially, isn’t biblical Ok. Harpazo then If not what is this about? And what comfort is It to hang out for wrath? For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/16/2024 8:37:36 PM EDT
[#6]
Titus 3:9 says we don’t need to argue about Al this??
International Version But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless I’m not dogmatic about it but seems like it’s hard er to say Harpazo doesn’t happen vs it does🤷♂️ |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/16/2024 8:43:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sartorius: OP: How about a link. A search on Youtube shows lots of various videos by Brainard. Your tenuous grasp of grammar and punctuation makes it a bit difficult to follow where you're going here. Are you arguing that Brainard is stating that 2 Peter claims that the saints will be taken up to heaven prior to the 7 years of tribulation? Isn't this a typical pre-trib view? Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't really worry about pre- or post-trib distinction, since we can't change this. The last part of 2 Peter 1:19 says: How does he get from this scripture to the church being taken home prior to the seven years? Does his translation of these Latin texts offer some clarity? How about a link to this? Your last paragraph does not improve in clarity. Assuming the pre-trib view, that doesn't give you or Brainard any indication of the exact day of His returning. And even if you knew the date of his returning, an idea the scriptures clearly refute (see SideCarGT), you're going to not go to work that day and instead go "just hang out at Wal-mart"?????? What I’m saying is he said it “might” be that Christian’s get a warning/alarm /notification on the day of or leading up to Harpazo. Speech to text and my screen is jacked up. Forgive me |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/16/2024 8:53:34 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SideCarGT: Matthew 24:35-36. Jesus says “35 “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. 36 But no one knows the day or the hour. No! Not even the angels in heaven know. The Son does not know. Only the Father knows.” The following verses continue the theme. Anyone who says they know the day is wrong. That is referring to second coming. Which yes we definitely don’t know the date of . Because we don’t know when the tribulation starts and how big of a gap between Harpazo and start of the 70th week. The other thing is, Noah was warned 100yeara in advance, and then a week ahead of flood. And lot had a day. And maybe more as he had divert route to different town? And someone else. So there is some precedent of “warming” etc. I’m not advocating for it, I’m simply asking if any of y’all have heard anything like that |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/16/2024 8:59:06 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FennRx: “The rapture” as it known colloquially, isn’t biblical https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/not-by-works-ministries/id1535990985?i=1000639409305 |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/16/2024 9:04:08 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sartorius: OP: How about a link. A search on Youtube shows lots of various videos by Brainard. Your tenuous grasp of grammar and punctuation makes it a bit difficult to follow where you're going here. Are you arguing that Brainard is stating that 2 Peter claims that the saints will be taken up to heaven prior to the 7 years of tribulation? Isn't this a typical pre-trib view? Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't really worry about pre- or post-trib distinction, since we can't change this. The last part of 2 Peter 1:19 says: How does he get from this scripture to the church being taken home prior to the seven years? Does his translation of these Latin texts offer some clarity? How about a link to this? Your last paragraph does not improve in clarity. Assuming the pre-trib view, that doesn't give you or Brainard any indication of the exact day of His returning. And even if you knew the date of his returning, an idea the scriptures clearly refute (see SideCarGT), you're going to not go to work that day and instead go "just hang out at Wal-mart"?????? Here’s link to his books talking about early church view of Harpazo https://soothkeep.info/recent-pre-trib-findings-in-the-early-church-fathers/ reference earlier where I was speaking of him translating these early writings from Latin into whatever. I haven’t read these books so I don’t know what he did. |
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Posted: 2/16/2024 9:23:33 PM EDT
[#11]
A Postmillennial Primer: Basics of Optimistic Eschatology https://a.co/d/bevOaDi
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Posted: 2/17/2024 9:30:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Gullskjegg]
[#12]
Originally Posted By Oddysey23: https://www.bibleref.com/2-Peter/1/2-Peter-1-19.html Lee Brainerd on YouTube who is a pretty big Bible prophecy guy translated a bunch of Latin Texxts etc. so he’s not just a goofball. He sees that maybe this verse could be a reference to us getting the inkling that Jesus gonna show up that day to take the church home before the seven year starts? Any of you guys ever heard anything like this or heard it translated that way or interpreted? Would be super interesting if so I mean chances are you wouldn’t go to work that day there and you were just hang out at Walmart or wherever saying this is that guy is you better figure it out! Maybe he should read the very next two verses. Also, the “rapture” as it’s commonly known wasn’t invented until the 1800s. I say invented because it was invented, and not by Christ. |
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Posted: 2/17/2024 9:34:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Gullskjegg]
[#13]
“And we have the surer word of prophecy, or to make our testimonies and preaching of Christ more firm. The revelations of God made to the prophets, and contained in the holy Scriptures, give us of all others the greatest assurance. Though the mysteries in themselves remain obscure and incomprehensible, the motive of our belief is divine authority. (Witham) If our testimony be suspicious, we have what you will certainly allow, the testimony of the prophets: attend then to the prophets as to a lamp that illumines a dark place, till the bright day of a more lively faith begins to illumine you, and the day-star arises in your heart: till this faith, which is like the day-star, give you a perfect knowledge of Jesus Christ. It is by the divine oracles you will acquire this knowledge, provided you peruse them with proper dispositions.” - George Leo Haydock
“This shews plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one's private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise.” - Richard Challoner |
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Posted: 2/17/2024 10:21:48 AM EDT
[#14]
2 Peter 1:19 is one of, if not my favorite, verse; because it’s true meaning is what happened to me.
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Posted: 2/17/2024 10:25:21 AM EDT
[#15]
The Latin Vulgate isn't the original text.
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LA, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2024 11:45:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Tech-Com]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SideCarGT: Matthew 24:35-36. Jesus says "35 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. 36 But no one knows the day or the hour. No! Not even the angels in heaven know. The Son does not know. Only the Father knows." The following verses continue the theme. Anyone who says they know the day is wrong. The Bible is full of clues. It will happen within 1 generation Matthew 24, The audience when it was written was told "some of you will not sleep." Also there was a rumor John would never die (End section of John), because Jesus indicated to Peter that John would live until the return of Jesus. The FirstFruit Gathering is for the elect / the firstfruits, and their witness and testimony is needed in Heaven to cast out Satan in Revelation 12. I can justify the Bible with the Bible and don't like using historians, but one famous one that lived in that era said that countless people witnessed the chariots of God swarming Jerusalem. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2024 1:02:53 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Oddysey23: Ok. Harpazo then If not what is this about? And what comfort is It to hang out for wrath? For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. The chastisement is on the FIVE Christian denominations/CHURCHS that don't teach SATAN plays the role of the fake christ and the world that falls in spiritual love with him, his system of worship and government. Ezekiel 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly. 2 Thessalonians was written to clarify the mistaken notions of rapture and that the true Christ(7th trump) is not coming here until satan(6th trump) sits and rules from Jerusalem. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2024 3:35:31 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tech-Com: Unless the day already occurred. The Bible is full of clues. It will happen within 1 generation Matthew 24, The audience when it was written was told "some of you will not sleep." Also there was a rumor John would never die (End section of John), because Jesus indicated to Peter that John would live until the return of Jesus. The FirstFruit Gathering is for the elect / the firstfruits, and their witness and testimony is needed in Heaven to cast out Satan in Revelation 12. I can justify the Bible with the Bible and don't like using historians, but one famous one that lived in that era said that countless people witnessed the chariots of God swarming Jerusalem. So all teh Fish in the Sea Died?! Sun turned dark? Hailstones? I just can’t buy j to the ad 70 theory |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2024 3:37:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gullskjegg: 2 Peter 1:19 is one of, if not my favorite, verse; because it’s true meaning is what happened to me. Well for goodness sakes don’t leave us hanging |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2024 3:59:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Shaffer]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tech-Com: Unless the day already occurred. The Bible is full of clues. It will happen within 1 generation Matthew 24, The audience when it was written was told "some of you will not sleep." Also there was a rumor John would never die (End section of John), because Jesus indicated to Peter that John would live until the return of Jesus. The FirstFruit Gathering is for the elect / the firstfruits, and their witness and testimony is needed in Heaven to cast out Satan in Revelation 12. I can justify the Bible with the Bible and don't like using historians, but one famous one that lived in that era said that countless people witnessed the chariots of God swarming Jerusalem. The audience of all the gospels is now, here in the time of the parable of the fig tree. 76 years into the last generation. John 21:23 "Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, "He shall not die;" but If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?" Peter wanted to know exactly what would happen to the rest of the disciples, including John. Jesus response is "If I want John to live until the second advent, until I come again, what is that to you?" Jesus is saying that it is none of your business Peter, what I have in store for John, You just do what I have commanded you to do. Jesus had a very special mission for John, in that he is the man that wrote down the book of Revelation at the end of his life. He gave us a direct understanding of the end of this earth age. John wrote directly to you and I in these latter days, and it is important that we read and understand that message that Jesus gave to John in that vision. Satan is cast out of heaven to the earth by Michael several months before the trials of the elect. Satan has to be sitting in Jerusalem and ruling the earth, as a supernatural entity, the world will think he is Christ. |
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WV, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2024 4:05:07 PM EDT
[#21]
If you listen to Dr Michael Heisers book "Reversing Hermon" he delves deeply into Revelations, its really good
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Posted: 2/17/2024 4:12:52 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Oddysey23: Well for goodness sakes don’t leave us hanging Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Oddysey23: Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: 2 Peter 1:19 is one of, if not my favorite, verse; because it’s true meaning is what happened to me. Well for goodness sakes don’t leave us hanging Well I’m still here… 
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LA, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2024 7:15:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tech-Com]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shaffer: The audience of all the gospels is now, here in the time of the parable of the fig tree. 76 years into the last generation. John 21:23 "Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, "He shall not die;" but If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?" Peter wanted to know exactly what would happen to the rest of the disciples, including John. Jesus response is "If I want John to live until the second advent, until I come again, what is that to you?" Jesus is saying that it is none of your business Peter, what I have in store for John, You just do what I have commanded you to do. Jesus had a very special mission for John, in that he is the man that wrote down the book of Revelation at the end of his life. He gave us a direct understanding of the end of this earth age. John wrote directly to you and I in these latter days, and it is important that we read and understand that message that Jesus gave to John in that vision. Satan is cast out of heaven to the earth by Michael several months before the trials of the elect. Satan has to be sitting in Jerusalem and ruling the earth, as a supernatural entity, the world will think he is Christ. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shaffer: Originally Posted By Tech-Com: Unless the day already occurred. The Bible is full of clues. It will happen within 1 generation Matthew 24, The audience when it was written was told "some of you will not sleep." Also there was a rumor John would never die (End section of John), because Jesus indicated to Peter that John would live until the return of Jesus. The FirstFruit Gathering is for the elect / the firstfruits, and their witness and testimony is needed in Heaven to cast out Satan in Revelation 12. I can justify the Bible with the Bible and don't like using historians, but one famous one that lived in that era said that countless people witnessed the chariots of God swarming Jerusalem. The audience of all the gospels is now, here in the time of the parable of the fig tree. 76 years into the last generation. John 21:23 "Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, "He shall not die;" but If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?" Peter wanted to know exactly what would happen to the rest of the disciples, including John. Jesus response is "If I want John to live until the second advent, until I come again, what is that to you?" Jesus is saying that it is none of your business Peter, what I have in store for John, You just do what I have commanded you to do. Jesus had a very special mission for John, in that he is the man that wrote down the book of Revelation at the end of his life. He gave us a direct understanding of the end of this earth age. John wrote directly to you and I in these latter days, and it is important that we read and understand that message that Jesus gave to John in that vision. Satan is cast out of heaven to the earth by Michael several months before the trials of the elect. Satan has to be sitting in Jerusalem and ruling the earth, as a supernatural entity, the world will think he is Christ. There is nothing to be gained by Jesus's conversations with Peter except spiritual insight as the minor chastisement of Peter would not be worth including in the word as it was already known to cause great confusion and speculations. Then all the literal wording of the constant use of the word Soon, Some of you will not sleep ., and all the other verses that imply soon, including Jesus direct words that this generation will not pass away .etc |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2024 7:26:26 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Oddysey23: So all teh Fish in the Sea Died?! Sun turned dark? Hailstones? I just can't buy j to the ad 70 theory Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Oddysey23: Originally Posted By Tech-Com: Unless the day already occurred. The Bible is full of clues. It will happen within 1 generation Matthew 24, The audience when it was written was told "some of you will not sleep." Also there was a rumor John would never die (End section of John), because Jesus indicated to Peter that John would live until the return of Jesus. The FirstFruit Gathering is for the elect / the firstfruits, and their witness and testimony is needed in Heaven to cast out Satan in Revelation 12. I can justify the Bible with the Bible and don't like using historians, but one famous one that lived in that era said that countless people witnessed the chariots of God swarming Jerusalem. So all teh Fish in the Sea Died?! Sun turned dark? Hailstones? I just can't buy j to the ad 70 theory |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2024 10:39:50 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By badguybuster: If you listen to Dr Michael Heisers book "Reversing Hermon" he delves deeply into Revelations, its really good I have his unseen realm on my nightstand right now |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2024 10:51:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tech-Com: Mount Vesuvius? I would be kinda careful in all this stuff? Podcast I listened to the other day talking about creation vs evolution etc being the “false christs” that Jesus spoke of. And not necessarily that those doctrines or thoughts are wrong, it’s what your actions may be after you walk those paths?? I dunno seemed kinda stretch to me, but if you don’t take most of this stuff as literal, future events then I think it sets you up to believe the lies here at the end where deception so thick that “even the elect may be deceived”? Like I keep thinking, it’s important to keep an open mind and “test the spirits”, because the pattern seems to be that man’s “expectations” are always subverted. And not because God Almighty is a “gotcha” guy it’s just the pattern of this life. So, could things be a lil different than Hal Lindsey and Tim lahaye say?! Probably, but I think we need to hold on loosely to our ______ ?( pride probably?) and just read the Word and take it one day at a time. Back to the original question, I’m just excited for the concept of there might be a lil nudge telling us the Harpazo is gonna happen within the next day, week, month etc. and with all these bunny trails I guess that answers that no one else has heard of this concept. |
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Posted: 2/18/2024 8:19:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ngc1300]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Oddysey23: Back to the original question, I'm just excited for the concept of there might be a lil nudge telling us the Harpazo is gonna happen within the next day, week, month etc. and with all these bunny trails I guess that answers that no one else has heard of this concept. Secondly, the idea that Christians will be spared from the coming hard times is nothing more than wishful thinking. Tell the Christians in the middle east being executed by ISIS they won't experience the hard times. Tell the Christians in China who are imprisoned by the CCP after having their churches bulldozed they won't experience hard times. Rapture eschatology is for Christians who've never experienced religious persecution in their life. It's the most spiritually lazy of any of the Christian eschatologies, not willing to face a hostile world. They expect to accomplish nothing, sacrifice nothing and remain comfortable until the end. Worst of all Rapture eschatology is harming Christianity. Look at how the Darbyites continue to cede ground to the enemy, instead of investing in future generations of Christians. Like the groundhog that refuses to come out its hole for fear of seeing its own shadow, they are afraid to face the world and instead see conspiracies of the rapture around every corner. The sooner Christians leave Darby's crack-pot theories behind, the better Christianity will be. |
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Posted: 2/18/2024 9:23:06 AM EDT
[#28]
One of Jesus’s explanations to his disciples, about the end, says, (paraphrased) ‘….when you see…these things happening…. don’t go back in your house to collect your things…’.
Sorry, I can’t remember the exact reference… To me, that may give us a glimpse that it is happening immediately? Until that time, it’s all speculation. Or am I wrong? |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/18/2024 10:43:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Oddysey23]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ngc1300: Christians have been making end-time predictions since the beginning and they've all been wrong. You are no exception and are on a fool's errand. Secondly, the idea that Christians will be spared from the coming hard times is nothing more than wishful thinking. Tell the Christians in the middle east being executed by ISIS they won't experience the hard times. Tell the Christians in China who are imprisoned by the CCP after having their churches bulldozed they won't experience hard times. Rapture eschatology is for Christians who've never experienced religious persecution in their life. It's the most spiritually lazy of any of the Christian eschatologies, not willing to face a hostile world. They expect to accomplish nothing, sacrifice nothing and remain comfortable until the end. Worst of all Rapture eschatology is harming Christianity. Look at how the Darbyites continue to cede ground to the enemy, instead of investing in future generations of Christians. Like the groundhog that refuses to come out its hole for fear of seeing its own shadow, they are afraid to face the world and instead see conspiracies of the rapture around every corner. The sooner Christians leave Darby's crack-pot theories behind, the better Christianity will be. Not a prediction. Also, “comfort one another with these words”. Where is the comfort in gettin slaughtered as you say we all must be? I am open to the end being “weird “ but what you say is just lazy and misguided imo. So the hard times for Christian’s at the moment is the “persecuting for MY names sake” verse. American “church “ doesn’t understand persecution, obviously. But you’re missing the point of the 70th week. That’s wrath on unbelievers(haters) and the Jews. It just seems too complicated to NOT belive in Harpazo. And then the marriage supper of the lamb. So many things seem to add up and make sense when you think of Harpazo as saving from judgment. Like lot Noah and the other guy. Anyways. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/18/2024 10:49:45 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Annarchy: One of Jesus’s explanations to his disciples, about the end, says, (paraphrased) ‘….when you see…these things happening…. don’t go back in your house to collect your things…’. Sorry, I can’t remember the exact reference… To me, that may give us a glimpse that it is happening immediately? Until that time, it’s all speculation. Or am I wrong? That is allegedly the midpoint of the 70th week. That’s when AC goes into temple and says he is God. Then he oppressed Jews cause Jews finally get the “ah ha” moment. Or that’s how it’s commonly Thought. I’m referring to the Harpazo before all the real crazy stuff happens. There’s 2 diff comings of Jesus to earth near the end. One is the “day of Christ “ and that is typically assumed to be the Harpazo and then there is the “day of the Lord” which is the 70th week of Daniel. Or that’s the way I take it, at the moment. So, the Jewish disciples were asking when all the Jewish end times events were gonna happen but as the church we have different priorities and “dispensation “ Haters hate that though, clearly |
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Posted: 2/18/2024 11:30:40 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Annarchy: One of Jesus’s explanations to his disciples, about the end, says, (paraphrased) ‘….when you see…these things happening…. don’t go back in your house to collect your things…’. Sorry, I can’t remember the exact reference… To me, that may give us a glimpse that it is happening immediately? Until that time, it’s all speculation. Or am I wrong? Good day. At first I thought of.. Matthew 24:17-18 NIV Then, also what is written in Mark 13:15-16 NIV And, I recall, that which is written in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 NIV  Have a great Sunday! 
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Posted: 2/18/2024 3:33:36 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SideCarGT: Matthew 24:35-36. Jesus says “35 “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. 36 But no one knows the day or the hour. No! Not even the angels in heaven know. The Son does not know. Only the Father knows.” The following verses continue the theme. Anyone who says they know the day is wrong. So if anyone says they know the day or time, then the day or time will NOT be that day or time. |
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Posted: 2/18/2024 5:29:49 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Oddysey23: There's 2 diff comings of Jesus to earth near the end. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 2/18/2024 6:12:11 PM EDT
[#34]
I am not a firm believer of the rapture because there is so little about it written. I've heard it all my life and hope the teaching is true. But just in case it's not, be ready for it not to happen.
If there is a rapture, the church is caught up in the air to meet Jesus in the clouds. A visible occurance that all will see. If there is not a rapture, when the real Jesus comes back and his feet touch the ground, a great earthquake will split the mountain. The entire world will feel this quake, and it will dislodge mountains. It will also be after the two witnesses ascend to heaven. If someone claiming to be Jesus arrives in a spaceship (or not) wanting believers to go with him, it is an imposter. It's not Jesus. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 2/18/2024 6:19:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MaximusEmanatus]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Genin: So if anyone says they know the day or time, then the day or time will NOT be that day or time. Anyone can guess, and guess right. But they won't KNOW. I've joked that we should make a worldwide effort for every Christian to predict a day and an hour, but leave one specific date unmentioned, and that would have to be the day. Even if we did, we wouldn't know the day or the time. |
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Posted: 2/18/2024 6:24:59 PM EDT
[#36]
OP, if you study the Bible, Heaven will be on earth. There is no rapture.
Jesus is not a yo yo going up and down. Acts 1: 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. |
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Posted: 2/19/2024 11:45:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: King_Mud]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Oddysey23: Not a prediction. Also, “comfort one another with these words”. Where is the comfort in gettin slaughtered as you say we all must be? I am open to the end being “weird “ but what you say is just lazy and misguided imo. So the hard times for Christian’s at the moment is the “persecuting for MY names sake” verse. American “church “ doesn’t understand persecution, obviously. But you’re missing the point of the 70th week. That’s wrath on unbelievers(haters) and the Jews. It just seems too complicated to NOT belive in Harpazo. And then the marriage supper of the lamb. So many things seem to add up and make sense when you think of Harpazo as saving from judgment. Like lot Noah and the other guy. Anyways. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Oddysey23: Originally Posted By ngc1300: Christians have been making end-time predictions since the beginning and they've all been wrong. You are no exception and are on a fool's errand. Secondly, the idea that Christians will be spared from the coming hard times is nothing more than wishful thinking. Tell the Christians in the middle east being executed by ISIS they won't experience the hard times. Tell the Christians in China who are imprisoned by the CCP after having their churches bulldozed they won't experience hard times. Rapture eschatology is for Christians who've never experienced religious persecution in their life. It's the most spiritually lazy of any of the Christian eschatologies, not willing to face a hostile world. They expect to accomplish nothing, sacrifice nothing and remain comfortable until the end. Worst of all Rapture eschatology is harming Christianity. Look at how the Darbyites continue to cede ground to the enemy, instead of investing in future generations of Christians. Like the groundhog that refuses to come out its hole for fear of seeing its own shadow, they are afraid to face the world and instead see conspiracies of the rapture around every corner. The sooner Christians leave Darby's crack-pot theories behind, the better Christianity will be. Not a prediction. Also, “comfort one another with these words”. Where is the comfort in gettin slaughtered as you say we all must be? I am open to the end being “weird “ but what you say is just lazy and misguided imo. So the hard times for Christian’s at the moment is the “persecuting for MY names sake” verse. American “church “ doesn’t understand persecution, obviously. But you’re missing the point of the 70th week. That’s wrath on unbelievers(haters) and the Jews. It just seems too complicated to NOT belive in Harpazo. And then the marriage supper of the lamb. So many things seem to add up and make sense when you think of Harpazo as saving from judgment. Like lot Noah and the other guy. Anyways. No, dispensationalism is lazy. You have two options here, one where this world doesn’t really matter and you more or less just bide your time until you die or Christ returns. The other option is being charged with kingdom building and carrying the banner of Christ to the corners of the world in preparation of his return. His kingdom will be established here and we are called to labor for the Church and prepare the way. Answer me this: if you were against the Church would not spreading the lie that this world doesn’t really matter and that Christ’s kingdom will not be truly built on a living and breathing Earth but exists somewhere intangible be a victory? If you could douse the fire that causes Christians to build and to grow with an eye towards the future, with the clear-eyed vision that generations after us will continue our labor for the advancement of the Church, would that not be a triumph? Originally Posted By MaximusEmanatus: I am not a firm believer of the rapture because there is so little about it written. I've heard it all my life and hope the teaching is true. But just in case it's not, be ready for it not to happen. If there is a rapture, the church is caught up in the air to meet Jesus in the clouds. A visible occurance that all will see. If there is not a rapture, when the real Jesus comes back and his feet touch the ground, a great earthquake will split the mountain. The entire world will feel this quake, and it will dislodge mountains. It will also be after the two witnesses ascend to heaven. If someone claiming to be Jesus arrives in a spaceship (or not) wanting believers to go with him, it is an imposter. It's not Jesus. We will be caught up but it is leaving the city gates to welcome the ruler back to his own. We will meet him and welcome his return to his kingdom, not fly away with him to somewhere else. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/20/2024 10:04:03 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Genin: So if anyone says they know the day or time, then the day or time will NOT be that day or time. Right. You can’t know day or time of second coming. Because that is independent of date of Harpazo or start of 70th week. When he says no man knows day or hour, that’s of his second coming at armegeddon valley. So I’m not contending you can calculate that, right now. But can’t you calculate that once the covenant with AC is signed? Because now you have 7 years. But maybe it’s a calendar problem Of 360 vs 365 day years. But not really as it says 12xx days till abomination of desolation and then it says still another 3.5 years? [color=#b6b6b6]What I am saying , is, “is it possible, based upon 2 Peter 1:19, for most/all Christian’s to have an inner, gut feeling warning them that it (Harpazo)is near (day week month year or hour)?[/color] |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/20/2024 10:07:04 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MaximusEmanatus: I am not a firm believer of the rapture because there is so little about it written. I've heard it all my life and hope the teaching is true. But just in case it's not, be ready for it not to happen. If there is a rapture, the church is caught up in the air to meet Jesus in the clouds. A visible occurance that all will see. If there is not a rapture, when the real Jesus comes back and his feet touch the ground, a great earthquake will split the mountain. The entire world will feel this quake, and it will dislodge mountains. It will also be after the two witnesses ascend to heaven. If someone claiming to be Jesus arrives in a spaceship (or not) wanting believers to go with him, it is an imposter. It's not Jesus. Pretty bold statements for admiring you’re not convinced either way??!! I don’t see THAT wrote anywhere This is not a Thread about the possibility of Harpazo, it’s assuming it does happen. So the question I am trying to have a discussion about is as I mentioned right above. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/20/2024 10:09:20 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Oldgold: OP, if you study the Bible, Heaven will be on earth. There is no rapture. Jesus is not a yo yo going up and down. Acts 1: 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Eventually it will yes. But we’re talking about that. We’re taking about whagappens before that. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/20/2024 10:47:55 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By King_Mud: No, dispensationalism is lazy. You have two options here, one where this world doesn’t really matter and you more or less just bide your time until you die or Christ returns. The other option is being charged with kingdom building and carrying the banner of Christ to the corners of the world in preparation of his return. His kingdom will be established here and we are called to labor for the Church and prepare the way. Answer me this: if you were against the Church would not spreading the lie that this world doesn’t really matter and that Christ’s kingdom will not be truly built on a living and breathing Earth but exists somewhere intangible be a victory? If you could douse the fire that causes Christians to build and to grow with an eye towards the future, with the clear-eyed vision that generations after us will continue our labor for the advancement of the Church, would that not be a triumph? We will be caught up but it is leaving the city gates to welcome the ruler back to his own. We will meet him and welcome his return to his kingdom, not fly away with him to somewhere else. Like I keep saying the future is that is black and white as you guys all like to stay in here and dog me for my views and you’re very convinced that I’m wrong but what if I’m not what if you are wrong it’s pretty prideful and argumentative concepts in here where like I said and titus 39 and told us not to do that so I don’t know how you get off ignoring that verse And kingdom now theology is also very prideful in my estimation shows it just doesn’t seem to fit what’s the way it’s all written that it’s a tiny slippery slope to Jehovah’s Witness type logic of oh Jesus is real now in Satan is locked up and that stuff just doesn’t seem super logical either And kingdom now theology also dismisses the Jews replaces them with the church and then you go hang on a minute here what about the Jews there’s no place for them because you guys have replaced them with something else but why would we call people different names if they weren’t in fact different why would we assume God has different plans for people if it was a different |
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Posted: 2/20/2024 11:11:10 AM EDT
[#42]
My understanding is that when Christ returns, the dead in Christ will rise first, and those believers still alive will be transformed and meet Him in the air with the risen dead. The dead who are not in Christ, will remain dead, and the wicked living, will perish that very day, even wishing the mountains would fall on them to avoid the judgement.
My understanding is this starts the 1000 years where Satan is bound, (by circumstance, everything on earth is dead, cant tempt them anymore) and we rule and reign with Christ in Heaven, proving God's judgements are rightous. Christ then brings down the holy city, and the wicked are resurrected, but denied entry into the city. Satan leads a rebelion against the city, and Christ destroys the wicked in the lake of fire, and Satan is destroyed as well. God then creates the new heaven and earth, and we live forever in glory. This is summerized of course  So I read there will be a "rapture" so to say, but not like it is commonly addressed. I do believe many of the things in Revelation and Daniel have already come to pass. It is impossible to know the day or hour, but I do believe we can know the season it takes place, much like knowing the season of a grain harvest, just not the specific day. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/20/2024 10:48:51 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaseyK: My understanding is that when Christ returns, the dead in Christ will rise first, and those believers still alive will be transformed and meet Him in the air with the risen dead. The dead who are not in Christ, will remain dead, and the wicked living, will perish that very day, even wishing the mountains would fall on them to avoid the judgement. My understanding is this starts the 1000 years where Satan is bound, (by circumstance, everything on earth is dead, cant tempt them anymore) and we rule and reign with Christ in Heaven, proving God's judgements are rightous. Christ then brings down the holy city, and the wicked are resurrected, but denied entry into the city. Satan leads a rebelion against the city, and Christ destroys the wicked in the lake of fire, and Satan is destroyed as well. God then creates the new heaven and earth, and we live forever in glory. This is summerized of course So I read there will be a "rapture" so to say, but not like it is commonly addressed. I do believe many of the things in Revelation and Daniel have already come to pass. It is impossible to know the day or hour, but I do believe we can know the season it takes place, much like knowing the season of a grain harvest, just not the specific day. Everything in the Bible happens in cycles. Yes Antiochus epiphanies slaughtered a pig in 70 ad but all the grass in the world was not burned up, not all the fishin seas didn’t die. Nor were Christians beheaded en masse. So those are big problems. I’m not certain why the Harpazo is not more theologically spelled out, probably for “such a time as this” for folks to contend with each other over it. Not sure what that accomplishes but it’s not my sandbox so I won’t try to change the rules |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 12:12:57 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Oddysey23: Like I keep saying the future is that is black and white as you guys all like to stay in here and dog me for my views and you’re very convinced that I’m wrong but what if I’m not what if you are wrong it’s pretty prideful and argumentative concepts in here where like I said and titus 39 and told us not to do that so I don’t know how you get off ignoring that verse And kingdom now theology is also very prideful in my estimation shows it just doesn’t seem to fit what’s the way it’s all written that it’s a tiny slippery slope to Jehovah’s Witness type logic of oh Jesus is real now in Satan is locked up and that stuff just doesn’t seem super logical either And kingdom now theology also dismisses the Jews replaces them with the church and then you go hang on a minute here what about the Jews there’s no place for them because you guys have replaced them with something else but why would we call people different names if they weren’t in fact different why would we assume God has different plans for people if it was a different I'm not "dogging you" for your views, I simply disagree. You posted on a discussion board and we are discussing it, not attacking you. I am convinced that I am right and that you are in error but that's not a personal attack, I'm quite certain that there are things I have yet to learn. It's also not prideful to disagree, I have learned from others far more educated than I and I have nothing to boast of. I do not see the prideful aspect of my eschatological views. We are servants of the Church and called to build. As far as the second bit, Christ is very much real now and Satan is playing his role. Finally, do not confuse national Israel and true Israel. I'm not sure what your point in the third paragraph is but if you are a Christian then you must believe that Christ is salvation. The tenets of my faith are sola scriptura, solus Christus, sola fide, sola gratia, and soli Deo gloria. That would necessarily leave the Jews out. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2024 10:02:47 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By King_Mud: I'm not 100% sure what you're driving at but I'll do my best to respond. I'm not "dogging you" for your views, I simply disagree. You posted on a discussion board and we are discussing it, not attacking you. I am convinced that I am right and that you are in error but that's not a personal attack, I'm quite certain that there are things I have yet to learn. It's also not prideful to disagree, I have learned from others far more educated than I and I have nothing to boast of. I do not see the prideful aspect of my eschatological views. We are servants of the Church and called to build. As far as the second bit, Christ is very much real now and Satan is playing his role. Finally, do not confuse national Israel and true Israel. I'm not sure what your point in the third paragraph is but if you are a Christian then you must believe that Christ is salvation. The tenets of my faith are sola scriptura, solus Christus, sola fide, sola gratia, and soli Deo gloria. That would necessarily leave the Jews out. Our Messiah, that is sitting on the right hand of the Father, currently serving as our High Priest and Intercessor, and will return to rule and reign is a Jew. |
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Posted: 2/22/2024 11:36:05 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RSR556:
Our Messiah, that is sitting on the right hand of the Father, currently serving as our High Priest and Intercessor, and will return to rule and reign is a Jew. |
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Posted: 2/23/2024 1:31:26 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RSR556: Our Messiah, that is sitting on the right hand of the Father, currently serving as our High Priest and Intercessor, and will return to rule and reign is a Jew. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/23/2024 3:27:55 PM EDT
[#48]
What if I’m right in my logic of pre trip dispensationalism? Then harpazo happens and all media coincides with that view? And so when the folks not Harpazod search media it points to that event, instead of now with such a virulent push back against “blsssed hope”? Now they gonna say, we’ll , these guys couldn’t agree so we’ll just toss that data point?? Kinda interesting. Again I’m not dogmatic, it’s the future we talking about here, it’s just interesting that only pre tribe gets to be mocked, at large.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 2/23/2024 6:45:28 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SideCarGT: Matthew 24:35-36. Jesus says “35 “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. 36 But no one knows the day or the hour. No! Not even the angels in heaven know. The Son does not know. Only the Father knows.” The following verses continue the theme. Anyone who says they know the day is wrong. THIS^^^ Anyone with a exact date/time is a false prophet. |
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Posted: 2/23/2024 8:48:14 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Oddysey23: What if I'm right in my logic of pre trip dispensationalism? Then harpazo happens and all media coincides with that view? And so when the folks not Harpazod search media it points to that event, instead of now with such a virulent push back against "blsssed hope"? Now they gonna say, we'll , these guys couldn't agree so we'll just toss that data point?? Kinda interesting. Again I'm not dogmatic, it's the future we talking about here, it's just interesting that only pre tribe gets to be mocked, at large. |
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