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Posted: 4/27/2024 9:22:51 AM EDT
We might actually start getting some ships that work properly now. For the latest example of our shit not working, see here U.S. Navy Ship Heading To Gaza Forced To Return After Engine Room Fire
Story South Korean shipbuilder HD Hyundai Heavy Industries (HD HHI) today announced that it has signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) with Philly Shipyard, located in Pennsylvania, USA, for the construction and maintenance (MRO) of naval and official vessels ordered by the U.S. government. Since 2005, HD Hyundai has been supplying blueprints and materials to Philly Shipyard for merchant ships. With today’s agreement, they plan to extend their cooperation to include naval and official vessels of the U.S. Navy, U.S. Coast Guard, and U.S. Maritime Administration. |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 10:24:08 AM EDT
[#1]
We used to be a manufacturing powerhouse. Now one chinese shipyard can out produce all the US shipyards combined.
https://www.defense-aerospace.com/us-cant-keep-up-with-chinese-navy-shipbuilding/ https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-04-17/us-navy-shipbuilding-has-fallen-dangerously-behind |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 10:27:32 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hp6: We used to be a manufacturing powerhouse. Now one chinese shipyard can out produce all the US shipyards combined. https://www.defense-aerospace.com/us-cant-keep-up-with-chinese-navy-shipbuilding/ https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-04-17/us-navy-shipbuilding-has-fallen-dangerously-behind But arf said that the US ships were far superior to China's floating targets? |
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USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 10:28:25 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hp6: We used to be a manufacturing powerhouse. Now one chinese shipyard can out produce all the US shipyards combined. https://www.defense-aerospace.com/us-cant-keep-up-with-chinese-navy-shipbuilding/ https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-04-17/us-navy-shipbuilding-has-fallen-dangerously-behind It was done by design, and boomers doubled down on this plan every single time they had a chance to change course. They will continue to do so. |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 10:34:17 AM EDT
[#4]
I would like to know the details of how they can do this. Why do we have problems with getting materials and they dont?
During his recent Sea Air Space speech, Del Toro further praised South Korea and commended Japan, saying both Pacific allies could build high-quality ships on time, on budget, and often at a fraction of the cost. https://www.ar15.com/forums/manageReply.html?b=1&f=5&t=2721836&tl=South-Korean-shipbuilder-to-assist-Philly-shipyard&r=&page=1 |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 10:43:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Haub]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hp6: I would like to know the details of how they can do this. Why do we have problems with getting materials and they dont? During his recent Sea Air Space speech, Del Toro further praised South Korea and commended Japan, saying both Pacific allies could build high-quality ships on time, on budget, and often at a fraction of the cost. https://www.ar15.com/forums/manageReply.html?b=1&f=5&t=2721836&tl=South-Korean-shipbuilder-to-assist-Philly-shipyard&r=&page=1 Pretty sure Hyundai has their own metal foundries and forging factories. So basically its all done "in house". Automotive, marine, industrial equipment, outside buyers etc. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 10:43:17 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hp6: I would like to know the details of how they can do this. Why do we have problems with getting materials and they dont? During his recent Sea Air Space speech, Del Toro further praised South Korea and commended Japan, saying both Pacific allies could build high-quality ships on time, on budget, and often at a fraction of the cost. https://www.ar15.com/forums/manageReply.html?b=1&f=5&t=2721836&tl=South-Korean-shipbuilder-to-assist-Philly-shipyard&r=&page=1 A lot can be blamed on unions and corrupt industrial complex. Even the Philly shipyard isn't what it used to be, it is now owned by the Norwegian firm, Aker. We haven't invested in ship building in decades and what we do build is shit. It takes a long time to work the bugs out and even then, sometimes the ships are just laid up permanently cause they don't work. Just think, in 1944 our shipyards could turn out a liberty ship in just 42 days. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 10:57:26 AM EDT
[#7]
But, but, but …Unions …
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:01:12 AM EDT
[#8]
Maybe ya;ll should let Chouest/North American build some of them ships if you want them done right.
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TN, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:03:03 AM EDT
[#9]
The Kia boys will steal these ships with a USB
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:06:32 AM EDT
[#10]
The S Korean qc guys reaction when they show up
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:08:52 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lil_Sig: But arf said that the US ships were far superior to China's floating targets? They are. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:10:44 AM EDT
[#12]
If you want to serve your country right now but don't want to join the military? Learn to weld. Seriously, our shipyards desperately need skilled welders right now. Great pay as well.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:12:25 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lil_Sig: But arf said that the US ships were far superior to China's floating targets? China's shipyards are heavily subsidized. They can out compete everyone when their govt gives them a blank check. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:13:00 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USCG_CPO: A lot can be blamed on unions and corrupt industrial complex. Even the Philly shipyard isn't what it used to be, it is now owned by the Norwegian firm, Aker. We haven't invested in ship building in decades and what we do build is shit. It takes a long time to work the bugs out and even then, sometimes the ships are just laid up permanently cause they don't work. Just think, in 1944 our shipyards could turn out a liberty ship in just 42 days. How many days would it have taken to build the Liberty ship in 1940? |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:14:23 AM EDT
[#15]
Hope they don’t put the 2.0 Turbo motors in them..
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:14:29 AM EDT
[#16]
That MOU will come in handy when damaged ships need repairs if we fight China.
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USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:15:07 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tuco22: They are. How did superior tech work out for Germany? |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:18:10 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USCG_CPO: A lot can be blamed on unions and corrupt industrial complex. Even the Philly shipyard isn't what it used to be, it is now owned by the Norwegian firm, Aker. We haven't invested in ship building in decades and what we do build is shit. It takes a long time to work the bugs out and even then, sometimes the ships are just laid up permanently cause they don't work. Just think, in 1944 our shipyards could turn out a liberty ship in just 42 days. Modern naval ships are far more complex in 2024 than 1943. It’s also worth noting you chose to use ‘44 as an example and not ‘41. Marines on Guadalcanal were mostly armed with 1903’s because the M1 was unobtanium. US production for most anything at the start of the war was absolutely not what it was in ‘44. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:18:24 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hp6: I would like to know the details of how they can do this. Why do we have problems with getting materials and they dont? During his recent Sea Air Space speech, Del Toro further praised South Korea and commended Japan, saying both Pacific allies could build high-quality ships on time, on budget, and often at a fraction of the cost. https://www.ar15.com/forums/manageReply.html?b=1&f=5&t=2721836&tl=South-Korean-shipbuilder-to-assist-Philly-shipyard&r=&page=1 Korean companies do this stuff all the time. They send teams of Korean construction (or whatever) workers into the USA. Occasionally, they get caught, and their punishment is to send the Korean workers home. Catch & Release. https://www.globalatlanta.com/immigration-authorities-arrest-13-koreans-working-at-sk-battery-site/ |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:21:21 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Benchode: How did superior tech work out for Germany? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Benchode: Originally Posted By Tuco22: They are. How did superior tech work out for Germany? Probably would have worked great if they didn’t make glaring strategic blunders. Germany could have skipped allying with Japan/trying to invade the UK or Russia and held Europe indefinitely. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:22:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: glimmerman68]
[#21]
The Koreans I work with can barely run a welder, they can't run a mill or lathe. Do you really expect me to believe Koreans can get shipyard running
 
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:25:30 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ruin: Probably would have worked great if they didn't make glaring strategic blunders. Germany could have skipped allying with Japan/trying to invade the UK or Russia and held Europe indefinitely. Didn't help that Hitler and his top men were highly incompetent. Democratic system isn't perfect, but dictatorships reward loyalty way above skill. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:25:35 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: If you want to serve your country right now but don't want to join the military? Learn to weld. Seriously, our shipyards desperately need skilled welders right now. Great pay as well. The lack of welders is like a pimple on the ass of a leper. The whole government process of getting anything made or done is a bloated, diseased cancer. There’s room in the price to offer wages that would have qualified people, or at least trainable people, lined up for miles…… but the money goes somewhere else. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:33:32 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: If you want to serve your country right now but don't want to join the military? Learn to weld. Seriously, our shipyards desperately need skilled welders right now. Great pay as well. Great pay? How much? |
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USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:38:29 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: If you want to serve your country right now but don't want to join the military? Learn to weld. Seriously, our shipyards desperately need skilled welders right now. Great pay as well. That’s what my grandfather did during WW2 on the west coast. He had moved from Rhode Island to CA to open a lumber mill. He got run out of business by a competitor politician. Then he went back to welding. Then a war started. With 4 kids already he stayed with that readily versus volunteering and he was not getting drafted from that job at the shipyards. You could weld as long and as many hours as you could stand then. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:39:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ArmyInfantryVet]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By glimmerman68: Great pay? How much? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By glimmerman68: Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: If you want to serve your country right now but don't want to join the military? Learn to weld. Seriously, our shipyards desperately need skilled welders right now. Great pay as well. Great pay? How much? Eastcoast welders get ridiculous pay. Back when I living in Pennsylvania, welders in Pittsburgh were easily making 60-80 dollars an hours. That was like 2011 money. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:42:18 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ruin: Probably would have worked great if they didn’t make glaring strategic blunders. Germany could have skipped allying with Japan/trying to invade the UK or Russia and held Europe indefinitely. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ruin: Originally Posted By Benchode: Originally Posted By Tuco22: They are. How did superior tech work out for Germany? Probably would have worked great if they didn’t make glaring strategic blunders. Germany could have skipped allying with Japan/trying to invade the UK or Russia and held Europe indefinitely. Yeah I really have no idea why TF they started shit with Russia TBH. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:44:05 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ruin: Modern naval ships are far more complex in 2024 than 1943. It’s also worth noting you chose to use ‘44 as an example and not ‘41. Marines on Guadalcanal were mostly armed with 1903’s because the M1 was unobtanium. US production for most anything at the start of the war was absolutely not what it was in ‘44. I don’t believe that to be true. The Marine Corps management chose to stay with the known and reliable bolt action rifle at that time. The Navy bailed out the M1 Garand program that lacked the budget at a critical time in the program and they literally had dibs on rifles, they already paid for them with Navy funds to keep the Army rifle program afloat. They didn’t exercise it until the Marines saw the rifle in action in Army hands and decided they should switch. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:45:26 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KELBEAST: How many days would it have taken to build the Liberty ship in 1940? I can't answer that since they didn't start building them until '41. But they averaged 2 ships every 3 days between the various shipyards. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:47:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: USCG_CPO]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ruin: Modern naval ships are far more complex in 2024 than 1943. It’s also worth noting you chose to use ‘44 as an example and not ‘41. Marines on Guadalcanal were mostly armed with 1903’s because the M1 was unobtanium. US production for most anything at the start of the war was absolutely not what it was in ‘44. No, there is nothing worth "noting", I simply grabbed the first set of stats from Google. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:47:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Chokey]
[#31]
HD Hyundai Heavy Industries I'm sure they'll be stolen in Philly. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:47:53 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: If you want to serve your country right now but don't want to join the military? Learn to weld. Seriously, our shipyards desperately need skilled welders right now. Great pay as well. There’s a LOT of ex-military who are going to end up as shipyard electricians and welders. Most of the ones I know who got out over the Clot shot or an alcohol incident work at Austal or Ingals now |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:47:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: USCG_CPO]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By glimmerman68: The Koreans I work with can barely run a welder, they can't run a mill or lathe. Do you really expect me to believe Koreans can get shipyard running Are these Koreans ship builders? I have worked in this industry for years and have crawled all through foreign built ships, I know what kind of quality is out there. I will simply say other countries have far outpaced the US, we are so far behind it will be hard to ever catch up. Now I will sit back and watch all the arfcom experts. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:55:08 AM EDT
[#34]
Philly ship yard is a circus. Used to be a solid place for employment, anything with fabrication, especially welding and pipe fitting.
Then contractors, importing the finest craftsman from fucking Pakistan and similar places, started coming in and replacing all the regular workers. PPE? Fire safety? Ventilation? They don't need it! |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 12:04:52 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USCG_CPO: Are these Koreans ship builders? I have worked in this industry for years and have crawled all through foreign built ships, I know what kind of quality is out there. I will simply say other countries have far outpaced the US, we are so far behind it will be hard to ever catch up. Now I will sit back and watch all the arfcom experts. Commercial or mil boats? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 12:11:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Pallas]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lil_Sig: But arf said that the US ships were far superior to China's floating targets? In most respects they are. But, PRC has more and is churning out more. US ships will get damaged, need maint, and possibly sunk, we will have issues dealing with that. It will be in China’s backyard and that is a long way from the US. Does the USN plan on moving every ship it has in the World to the Pacific Theater? Because PRC has more ships and they are all in one place. |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 1:18:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tuco22: They are. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tuco22: Originally Posted By lil_Sig: But arf said that the US ships were far superior to China's floating targets? They are. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 1:27:34 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By glimmerman68: The Koreans I work with can barely run a welder, they can't run a mill or lathe. Do you really expect me to believe Koreans can get shipyard running Korean ships are better than chinese. Maybe they use chinese labor ? 
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Posted: 4/27/2024 1:28:57 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USCG_CPO: No, there is nothing worth "noting", I simply grabbed the first set of stats from Google. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USCG_CPO: Originally Posted By Ruin: Modern naval ships are far more complex in 2024 than 1943. It’s also worth noting you chose to use ‘44 as an example and not ‘41. Marines on Guadalcanal were mostly armed with 1903’s because the M1 was unobtanium. US production for most anything at the start of the war was absolutely not what it was in ‘44. No, there is nothing worth "noting", I simply grabbed the first set of stats from Google. Well there’s better, more accurate comparisons to be made and research to be done than the first of stats you grabbed from Google. If we fight China it will likely look like the opening stages of WW2 against Japan; a series of setbacks, blunders, defeats, and logistical problems until we can get spooled up. Once we do, the Chinese in Bejing can get the same VJ Day Airshow that Tokyo received in 1945. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 1:29:25 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Haub: Pretty sure Hyundai has their own metal foundries and forging factories. So basically it's all done "in house". Automotive, marine, industrial equipment, outside buyers etc. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Haub: Originally Posted By hp6: I would like to know the details of how they can do this. Why do we have problems with getting materials and they dont? During his recent Sea Air Space speech, Del Toro further praised South Korea and commended Japan, saying both Pacific allies could build high-quality ships on time, on budget, and often at a fraction of the cost. https://www.ar15.com/forums/manageReply.html?b=1&f=5&t=2721836&tl=South-Korean-shipbuilder-to-assist-Philly-shipyard&r=&page=1 Pretty sure Hyundai has their own metal foundries and forging factories. So basically it's all done "in house". Automotive, marine, industrial equipment, outside buyers etc. But the fact you have political flacks like potato's Navy secretary extolling how much better foreign heavy manufacturing is compared to domestic US capability is sad and shocking, but not surprising at all. Really sad. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 1:37:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GarandM1: Doesn't matter how good your ships are if you can't repair them . Shipyards aren't just for building new boats. Arfcom acts as if nothing notable took place in WW2 until 1944 when the U.S. really started whipping some ass. It took between 6-12 months to repair some of the ships after Pearl Harbor; I’m sure our modern fleet would take awhile as well. The Pacific Theater was a fucking mess. We lost a series of battles and territory as Japan raced across the ocean. Our Aircraft Carrier operations were a learning process and our planes often outmatched by Japanese aircraft. Its good the USN made a deal with Korean Ship builders, the first island chain isn’t too close to Philly. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 1:41:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Well this is a terrible admission of incompetence..
Fuck builders, this nation needs to churn out more lawyers and social scientists 
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OK, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 1:41:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hp6: I would like to know the details of how they can do this. Why do we have problems with getting materials and they dont? During his recent Sea Air Space speech, Del Toro further praised South Korea and commended Japan, saying both Pacific allies could build high-quality ships on time, on budget, and often at a fraction of the cost. https://www.ar15.com/forums/manageReply.html?b=1&f=5&t=2721836&tl=South-Korean-shipbuilder-to-assist-Philly-shipyard&r=&page=1 No EPA mandates. No Osha. No Unions . No restrictions (anywhere really, but ) in handling storing shipping working with raw materials. No restrictions on the raw material. (Sense a pattern yet?) No submit for bids on every staple and washer. No stoners or whiners. (Related 24/7 work force or hit the pagoda) One goal. build/fix the ship, not source work to a Brother in Law's company. (Related, no lineup at the pork trough.) Maybe pride in the work? Just for starters. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 1:55:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mancat]
[#44]
This isn't new. I've been involved in two commercial newbuilds in Philly shipyard.
The designs are from Hyundai. The prefabricated sections of the house are built in Korea and shipped to the US. These sections will come with most of the cabling, piping, conduit etc already fitted, simply needing to be connected to adjoining sections during assembly. All of the engines, engineering systems, and literally everything down to the furniture is made in Korea. About the only exception is automation electronics which often come out of Norway, and a lot of the navigational electronics systems are Japanese. The neat trick is in providing the raw US made steel to Hyundai and doing a lot of the keel fabrication and assembly using US steel, so that on paper this is a "US built" ship in compliance with the Jones Act, even though by all measures the only thing the US shipyard does is fit everything together like Legos. Hyundai even supplies a technical work crew of Koreans to be on site during the process. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 2:05:12 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KoolOperator: Philly ship yard is a circus. Used to be a solid place for employment, anything with fabrication, especially welding and pipe fitting. Then contractors, importing the finest craftsman from fucking Pakistan and similar places, started coming in and replacing all the regular workers. PPE? Fire safety? Ventilation? They don't need it! 40 years ago, work was moving from the USA to the shitholes. Nowadays, workers are moving from their shitholes to the USA. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 2:08:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PlaneJane]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KELBEAST: How many days would it have taken to build the Liberty ship in 1940? The first one took 245 days. The publicity stunt record was 4 days and 15 hours and 29 minutes. The average mid-war was 30 days. America doesn’t do much commercial shipbuilding anymore. The trade off is, Newport News Shipbuilding is the only place you can buy a nuclear powered super carrier. . |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 3:03:05 PM EDT
[#47]
If I remember correctly the Republic of Korea led the world in shipbuilding until 2015 or-16 when the Chinese passed them.
US WWII fleet and escort carrier production was crazy. After Midway the Japanese built six fleet carriers while we built 17, and 122 escort carriers in six different classes. It took as short as 14 months to as long as 22 to launch an escort carrier. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 3:14:47 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister: If I remember correctly the Republic of Korea led the world in shipbuilding until 2015 or-16 when the Chinese passed them. US WWII fleet and escort carrier production was crazy. After Midway the Japanese built six fleet carriers while we built 17, and 122 escort carriers in six different classes. It took as short as 14 months to as long as 22 to launch an escort carrier. A lot of those shipyards simply don't exist any more. I was working in Vigor Portland a while back. During the war there were three completely separate shipyards on the Columbia within a 10 mile span. Vigor is the only one remaining. If you look at some of the former sites in Google Earth you can still see the faint outlines of the old facility infrastructure in one of the yards that is now nothing more than a scrap steel processing facility. The old San Francisco shipyard is now nothing more than a superfund site with a massive gantry crane that's sat idle for decades. Same goes for the rest of the country. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 1:39:29 PM EDT
[#49]
bump
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Posted: 4/28/2024 1:55:27 PM EDT
[#50]
Sad.
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