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Posted: 4/5/2024 4:26:08 PM EDT
With so many differing interpretations of many subjects across Christianity, it's hard to know which one to believe.  I usually go with the one that feels right, and fills in the blanks.  The following does that for me with the "Four Horsemen" coming from the late Irwin Baxter.  They aren't literal men in the end, but the four political systems on earth at the time of the end.

Zechariah calls the horsemen spirits.

I am going from memory.

The four horses never made much sense, until I heard explained like this:



White Horse:  Rev 6:2 (KJV)  And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

The White Horse is Catholicism.  The official color of the Vatican is white.  The Pope mobile is white, the airplane is white, and the Popes robes are mostly white.  Centuries ago, the Catholic Church raised an army to go against Islam, which was raiding and destroying coastal cities and taking slaves from Catholic nations.  These were what the Muslims call "The Crusades".



Rev 6:4 (KJV)  And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

The Red Horse is Communism.  The official color of Communism is red.  Look at their flags.  When they take over a country, they slaughter their enemies, and intellectuals.  They kill one another to keep them in line.  Look how many people the various communist dictators have killed.

The NASB version is interesting:  6:4 And another, a red horse, went out; and to him who sat on it, it was granted to take peace from the earth, and that people would kill one another; and a large sword was given to him.



Rev 6:5 (KJV)   And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.  6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

The Black Horse is Capitalism.  Black is the color of Capitalism.  Balances:  symbolize trade and commerce. Just about everything in a grocery store has a weight attached to it.  People think the actual values mentioned of a measure of wheat and barley mean a days work for a measure of grain.  It probably means that the merchant's price is just selling based on weights and measures.  Not sure about the oil and wine.




The Pale Horse:  Rev 6:8 (KJV)  And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

The Pale Horse is Islam.  Green is the color of Islam.  In the original Greek text, the word for green is chloros, meaning  'pale green'.  The word chloros is used 4 times in the New Testament.  The other three times, it is translated as "green".  A green horse might not have made sense, so the interpreter converted it as pale.

Power over a fourth part of the earth.  The nations populations in the world that are Muslim equal 25%, a quarter of the earth.  Muslims have used starvation, arms, and animals to kill and subdue their victims.

Rev 6:8 (NASB) -  I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and the one who sat on it had the name Death, and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, and famine, and plague, and by the wild animals of the earth.  


https://medium.com/@endtimeministries/islam-in-bible-prophecy-the-four-horsemen-f0c0ad27e5ce
Link Posted: 4/5/2024 4:40:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Its Revelation. Its when St JOhn discovered acid. Not sure any of it is  understandable.
Link Posted: 4/5/2024 5:47:19 PM EDT
[#2]
Much more likely that, that particular 'prophet' simply became delusional in his old age.  That is not meant to be a hit on Christianity, it happens.
Link Posted: 4/5/2024 7:32:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MarkHatfield:
Much more likely that, that particular 'prophet' simply became delusional in his old age.  That is not meant to be a hit on Christianity, it happens.
View Quote


That’s pretty reductive.
Link Posted: 4/5/2024 9:58:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tech-Com] [#4]
The white horseman is Christ and his horse/royal steed is his flock. He rides out to defeat the other horsemen with his bow.

"My anger burns against the shepherds,
and I will punish the leaders.
For the LORD of Hosts attends to His flock,
the house of Judah;
He will make them
like His royal steed in battle.

4The cornerstone will come from Judah,
the tent peg from him,
as well as the battle bow
and every ruler together.
5They will be like mighty men in battle,
trampling the enemy in the mire of the streets.
They will fight because the LORD is with them,
and they will put the horsemen to shame.
(Zechariah 10:3-5)

The horsemen He defeats are homicide, injustice, and death.

Another important thing to clarify:
The Third Seal/Horseman isn't famine like many declare, it is a reference to the falsely weighted scales mentioned in the Old Testament and represents injustice. Famine is actually the authority of the 4th horseman. These are the things that our victorious rider rode out to defeat!
Link Posted: 4/6/2024 3:37:04 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tech-Com:
The white horseman is Christ and his horse/royal steed is his flock. He rides out to defeat the other horsemen with his bow.

"My anger burns against the shepherds,
and I will punish the leaders.
For the LORD of Hosts attends to His flock,
the house of Judah;
He will make them
like His royal steed in battle.

4The cornerstone will come from Judah,
the tent peg from him,
as well as the battle bow
and every ruler together.
5They will be like mighty men in battle,
trampling the enemy in the mire of the streets.
They will fight because the LORD is with them,
and they will put the horsemen to shame.
(Zechariah 10:3-5)

The horsemen He defeats are homicide, injustice, and death.

Another important thing to clarify:
The Third Seal/Horseman isn't famine like many declare, it is a reference to the falsely weighted scales mentioned in the Old Testament and represents injustice. Famine is actually the authority of the 4th horseman. These are the things that our victorious rider rode out to defeat!
View Quote


The White Horse could represent Christianity.  That's something to consider.  Thanks.  I know He returns on a white horse, but thought it was a different horse, and it could still be.  But Zechariah does call the four horses with chariots spirits.

More study needed.
Link Posted: 4/6/2024 3:47:38 PM EDT
[#6]
White Horse = Victory (of Enoch, specifically)
Red Horse = Bloodshed
Black Horse = Famine
Pale Horse = Death
Link Posted: 4/6/2024 7:44:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MarkHatfield:
Much more likely that, that particular 'prophet' simply became delusional in his old age.  That is not meant to be a hit on Christianity, it happens.
View Quote

God is not mocked.  Stay classy, Mark
Link Posted: 4/6/2024 7:45:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: FennRx] [#8]
Nvm
Link Posted: 4/7/2024 4:34:06 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FennRx:

God is not mocked.  Stay classy, Mark
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View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FennRx:
Originally Posted By MarkHatfield:
Much more likely that, that particular 'prophet' simply became delusional in his old age.  That is not meant to be a hit on Christianity, it happens.

God is not mocked.  Stay classy, Mark


More like visions of future events with global systems and technologies that John couldn't have imagined and found it very hard to describe.
Some of those visions are represented by things that every person in every time could understand.
Dragons..Stars.. plagues.

Bottom line...its less a Book about events and more a Book about the Person of Jesus Christ and his final crushing of the enemy.

If a medical Doctor just 150 years ago was given a vision of Covid...with minimal understanding of virus and vaccinations and global medical alliances along with spritual power plays ...it would sound crazy in the details to almost anyone else living in history outside of those that live through the event itself.
Link Posted: 4/7/2024 5:31:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JohnnyLoco] [#10]
The interpretation in the OP sounds a little too allegorical, meaning Revelation 6 could be construed to mean this but not necessarily, too vague. It’s been widely held that the riders and seals corresponds to the events Jesus talks about in Matthew 24 that precede his Second Coming. There’s even many parallels like earthquakes, wars, famine, persecution of Christians and executions. It continues in chapters 7-10, even mentioning the trumpets Jesus talks about in Matthew 24:31. Jesus’s account of the events and the chapters in Revelation are understood in context as occurring in a short period of time, say years not decades, but definitely in the lifetime of those around when they begin.
Link Posted: 4/7/2024 11:43:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tech-Com] [#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JohnnyLoco:
The interpretation in the OP sounds a little too allegorical, meaning Revelation 6 could be construed to mean this but not necessarily, too vague. It's been widely held that the riders and seals corresponds to the events Jesus talks about in Matthew 24 that precede his Second Coming. There's even many parallels like earthquakes, wars, famine, persecution of Christians and executions. It continues in chapters 7-10, even mentioning the trumpets Jesus talks about in Matthew 24:31. Jesus's account of the events and the chapters in Revelation are understood in context as occurring in a short period of time, say years not decades, but definitely in the lifetime of those around when they begin.
View Quote
You are right. Every reference in the Bible indicates the things we have discussed in this thread have happened. We do not need to eat from the fruit of knowledge and understand politics to understand these spiritual events.

When we study these verses carefully we see the Last Trumpet and the Kingdom Beginning occur within 1-generation, unless a person thinks Christ is still without a kingdom? How can there be any doubt the Trumpet was blown and his Kingdom began?

31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. 32Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its branches become tender and sprout leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So also, when you see all these things, you will know that He is near, right at the door. 34Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. (Matthew 24:31-34)

29Then Jesus told them a parable: "Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31So also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. 33Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away. (Luke 21:29-33)

15Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven: "The kingdom of the world
has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever. (Revelation 11:15)

Then Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God arrive with power." (Mark 9:1)

But I tell you truthfully, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27)

But Jesus remained silent and made no reply.Again the high priest questioned Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One? ""I am," said Jesus, "and you (this particular man) will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven." (Mark 14:61-62)


No scripture causes me any doubt that the Trumpet is related to his Kingdom, and thus it was Blown and his Kingdom did come within a generation, therefore the gathering of his elect occurred and his blood and their testimony kicked Satan out of Heaven.
Link Posted: 4/8/2024 9:10:47 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By T1NMAN:


More like visions of future events with global systems and technologies that John couldn't have imagined and found it very hard to describe.
Some of those visions are represented by things that every person in every time could understand.
Dragons..Stars.. plagues.

Bottom line...its less a Book about events and more a Book about the Person of Jesus Christ and his final crushing of the enemy.

If a medical Doctor just 150 years ago was given a vision of Covid...with minimal understanding of virus and vaccinations and global medical alliances along with spritual power plays ...it would sound crazy in the details to almost anyone else living in history outside of those that live through the event itself.
View Quote


Yes. Demonic locusts=mini AI cluster drones with intimidating looks and pain inflicting features. Unimaginable (beyond the supernatural) 200 yrs. ago, much less 2000, but here we are with the worst to come.
Link Posted: 4/13/2024 1:46:52 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tech-Com:
You are right. Every reference in the Bible indicates the things we have discussed in this thread have happened. We do not need to eat from the fruit of knowledge and understand politics to understand these spiritual events.

When we study these verses carefully we see the Last Trumpet and the Kingdom Beginning occur within 1-generation, unless a person thinks Christ is still without a kingdom? How can there be any doubt the Trumpet was blown and his Kingdom began?

31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. 32Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its branches become tender and sprout leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So also, when you see all these things, you will know that He is near, right at the door. 34Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. (Matthew 24:31-34)

29Then Jesus told them a parable: "Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31So also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. 33Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away. (Luke 21:29-33)

15Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven: "The kingdom of the world
has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever. (Revelation 11:15)

Then Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God arrive with power." (Mark 9:1)

But I tell you truthfully, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27)

But Jesus remained silent and made no reply.Again the high priest questioned Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One? ""I am," said Jesus, "and you (this particular man) will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven." (Mark 14:61-62)


No scripture causes me any doubt that the Trumpet is related to his Kingdom, and thus it was Blown and his Kingdom did come within a generation, therefore the gathering of his elect occurred and his blood and their testimony kicked Satan out of Heaven.
View Quote


No, reread Matthew 24 and Revelation 13, most of these events have not taken place, also 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, which describes in detail the trumpet call on his return and how the dead in Christ rise from the dead (I’m still waiting for this to happen).
Link Posted: 4/13/2024 9:41:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tech-Com] [#14]
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Originally Posted By JohnnyLoco:


No, reread Matthew 24 and Revelation 13, most of these events have not taken place, also 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, which describes in detail the trumpet call on his return and how the dead in Christ rise from the dead (I'm still waiting for this to happen).
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Originally Posted By JohnnyLoco:
Originally Posted By Tech-Com:
You are right. Every reference in the Bible indicates the things we have discussed in this thread have happened. We do not need to eat from the fruit of knowledge and understand politics to understand these spiritual events.

When we study these verses carefully we see the Last Trumpet and the Kingdom Beginning occur within 1-generation, unless a person thinks Christ is still without a kingdom? How can there be any doubt the Trumpet was blown and his Kingdom began?

31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. 32Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its branches become tender and sprout leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So also, when you see all these things, you will know that He is near, right at the door. 34Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. (Matthew 24:31-34)

29Then Jesus told them a parable: "Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31So also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. 33Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away. (Luke 21:29-33)

15Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven: "The kingdom of the world
has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever. (Revelation 11:15)

Then Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God arrive with power." (Mark 9:1)

But I tell you truthfully, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27)

But Jesus remained silent and made no reply.Again the high priest questioned Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One? ""I am," said Jesus, "and you (this particular man) will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven." (Mark 14:61-62)


No scripture causes me any doubt that the Trumpet is related to his Kingdom, and thus it was Blown and his Kingdom did come within a generation, therefore the gathering of his elect occurred and his blood and their testimony kicked Satan out of Heaven.


No, reread Matthew 24 and Revelation 13, most of these events have not taken place, also 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, which describes in detail the trumpet call on his return and how the dead in Christ rise from the dead (I'm still waiting for this to happen).
What event hasn't taken place? Maybe if you share the verse we can look into how it was fulfilled.

If Jesus pointed to the stones of the temple and said all of them will be thrown down within 1-generation. He wasn't talking about some other set of future stones, he was talking about the ones in his presence, and the temple was destroyed and the prophecy of those stones was fulfilled. Even the end of the book of John is a clue. Of what value is the below verse but to indicate John would be the only Apostle not martydred and that he would live to see the return of Christ to gather his elect firstfruits? John would be one of those that would not taste death before the gathering of the elect. Why mention an inaccurate rumor if it wasn't a clue to prophecy fulfillment?

22Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain until I return, what is that to you? You follow Me!" 23Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. However, Jesus did not say that he would not die, but only, "If I want him to remain until I return, what is that to you?" (John 21:22-23)



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