User Panel
Posted: 4/11/2024 12:44:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CFII]
I know at my place of work we are slowing classes. AA has no summer classes. I believe United is slowing as well. Iero went out of business, Spirit is threatening furloughs and downgrades, and now the kicker of it all: Frontier is enacting a training contract with a 2 year payback clause.
Is there alarm to be had? No. But the salad days ended fall of 2023, and now its going to be competitive again. The worst part of the past 4 years is that so many regionals survived. That is a true shame, as they are a pox upon humanity. |
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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[Last Edit: BillofRights]
[#1]
What is Iero?
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GD- "It's kind of like wading through through slimy lake bed with your feet to find clams below the surface".
- gtfoxy |
[#2]
Originally Posted By BillofRights: What is Iero? View Quote Charter airline flying 737s. Have had a lot of my buddies go thru there on their way up the ladder. Swift/Iaero |
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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[#3]
I guess I missed the boat.
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[#4]
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GD- "It's kind of like wading through through slimy lake bed with your feet to find clams below the surface".
- gtfoxy |
[#5]
What does this mean for those of us who sit in the back?
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[Last Edit: Reekus]
[#6]
Originally Posted By WoodHeat: What does this mean for those of us who sit in the back? View Quote You'll still be there and god help us it'll be harder for you to get into the skyclub now |
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[#7]
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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[#8]
Missed Boeing 737 deliveries were cited by UAL and Spirit as the reason for layoffs/furloughs.
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If the truth makes you uncomfortable, don't blame the truth. Blame the lie that made you comfortable. -James Ng Uni
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[Last Edit: CFII]
[#9]
Originally Posted By KILLERB6: Missed Boeing 737 deliveries were cited by UAL and Spirit as the reason for layoffs/furloughs. View Quote For United, it is a reason they are slowing. Spirit only flies the A320 variants, and the engine issues with the Pratt GTF motor has a lot of their jets parked. |
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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[#10]
I wish they’d double the price of the tickets. Too damn many people flying as it is. Some of these people be acting a fool like this is a greyhound or something.
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[#11]
I’m pretty sure the Blue team is still hiring, although only for attrition. I think at this point, I’m getting comfortable with the idea of staying where I’m at for a while.
Definitely feels like any real movement is slowing to a crawl. |
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[#12]
Legacy hiring is still at epic levels for any year prior to 2015. Don't give up hope! Everything is cyclical. Position yourself to be ready when Boeing and Airbus deliveries get back on track.
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Tanker Toad and Drone Jockey
On the ground: Iraq: 2004, 2008, 2021 Afghanistan: 2006, 2008, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 Horn of Africa: 2012-2013 |
[#13]
Originally Posted By CFII: SNIP- Frontier is enacting a training contract with a 2 year payback clause. The worst part of the past 4 years is that so many regionals survived. That is a true shame, as they are a pox upon humanity. View Quote AAL, UAL, DAL - "Do you want a window, aisle, or middle seat?" Frontier/Spirit - "Do you want window, aisle, or ringside?" |
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[#14]
Well my position has been eliminated so I'm scrambling to find a job so I am hopeful the pendulum doesn't swing too far too fast.
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[Last Edit: LDiablo9]
[#15]
United is on the FAA watchlist and cant grow any new routes or equipment for the foreseeable future.
Spirit and Frontier are getting manhandled by the Legacy airlines because their low cost no frills business models have such a thin profit margin. Southwest had slowed because the max has been a disaster. AA and UA are taking delivery delays on the max as well. Are we on the backside of the salad days curve, for sure BUT AA has the most retirements next year (~950ish) other airlines have high retirements over the next few years as well. This is still one of the best times to be a 121 pilot in history! The movement is insane! Direct entry captains at a major are unheard of yet they're happening and at my place of employment the most junior Capt has been on property just over two years! Get your apps out there! |
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[#16]
Originally Posted By Pickle: Well my position has been eliminated so I'm scrambling to find a job so I am hopeful the pendulum doesn't swing too far too fast. View Quote That’s unfortunate. I just got lucky a couple years ago and got a job at team Hat. I count my blessings. My friends at Iaero got hosed. |
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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[#17]
Originally Posted By mardoc: AAL, UAL, DAL - "Do you want a window, aisle, or middle seat?" Frontier/Spirit - "Do you want window, aisle, or ringside?" View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By mardoc: Originally Posted By CFII: SNIP- Frontier is enacting a training contract with a 2 year payback clause. The worst part of the past 4 years is that so many regionals survived. That is a true shame, as they are a pox upon humanity. AAL, UAL, DAL - "Do you want a window, aisle, or middle seat?" Frontier/Spirit - "Do you want window, aisle, or ringside?" Attached File |
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-Wake me up when the lamp post decorating starts!
-In America, you ARE guilty if you are a Trump supporter or domestic terrorist (conservative white male Christian) -The older I get, the shorter a life sentence is. |
[Last Edit: Ringsting]
[#18]
As an industry outsider - why are regionals a pox on humanity. (Serious question!)
According to everyone's favorite 80's documentary TV show Wings, small regional airlines are the saving grace of the industry! |
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-Wake me up when the lamp post decorating starts!
-In America, you ARE guilty if you are a Trump supporter or domestic terrorist (conservative white male Christian) -The older I get, the shorter a life sentence is. |
[#19]
Originally Posted By Ringsting: As an industry outsider - why are regionals a pox on humanity. (Serious question!) According to everyone's favorite 80's documentary TV show Wings, small regional airlines are the saving grace of the industry! View Quote Pay, work rules, shit schedules, offensive Managment out to get you, little support from dispatchers, etc. Pay is better now since they had zero choice. Once they don’t have to be nice, it will be back down. Here is a good older documentary. Flying Cheap (full documentary) | FRONTLINE |
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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[#20]
@CFII
I love that documentary, one of the few pieces on aviation that the media got pretty close to 100% accurate. Roger Cohen is such a scumbag! |
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[#21]
Atlas is still hiring because we can't keep people.
Apply at your own risk. |
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"I will leave when I have your wounded." MAJ Kelly
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[#22]
Originally Posted By BillofRights: You can’t think that way. The last passenger saved off the Titanic, was still happy to be warm and dry. Never, never give up. View Quote I appreciate that. However, I was being a bit facetious. I stopped applying to WN years ago because I was afraid to get hired. I absolutely love being a 135/91 management pilot. That said, I’d happily buy you a beer for being a good dude. |
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[#23]
Originally Posted By Ringsting: As an industry outsider - why are regionals a pox on humanity. (Serious question!) According to everyone's favorite 80's documentary TV show Wings, small regional airlines are the saving grace of the industry! View Quote The regional model as it exists now -- where they are subcontracted to fly aircraft that have a size/capacity/range which prior to the 1980s would have been flown by the mainline/legacy airline, and are flown on transcontinental and international routes in North America -- are a result of Delta pilots in the late 80s sticking their nose up at flying those smaller jets because it was "beneath them". In the wake of that decision (and the ripple-effects at other airline pilot unions after the DALPA decision) is an enormous subcontracting industry that has been created and brought with it a huge number of "second-class citizen" pilot/FA/maintenance jobs in terms of lower wages, crappier work rules, and terrible schedules...and all for doing essentially the same work for the same passengers as the major airlines. |
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[#24]
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[#25]
Originally Posted By CFII: Pay, work rules, shit schedules, offensive Managment out to get you, little support from dispatchers, etc. Pay is better now since they had zero choice. Once they don't have to be nice, it will be back down. Here is a good older documentary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xms1akNhhg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By CFII: Originally Posted By Ringsting: As an industry outsider - why are regionals a pox on humanity. (Serious question!) According to everyone's favorite 80's documentary TV show Wings, small regional airlines are the saving grace of the industry! Pay, work rules, shit schedules, offensive Managment out to get you, little support from dispatchers, etc. Pay is better now since they had zero choice. Once they don't have to be nice, it will be back down. Here is a good older documentary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xms1akNhhg Just an opinion of course. |
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[#26]
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"I will leave when I have your wounded." MAJ Kelly
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[#27]
Originally Posted By MudEagle: The regional model as it exists now -- where they are subcontracted to fly aircraft that have a size/capacity/range which prior to the 1980s would have been flown by the mainline/legacy airline, and are flown on transcontinental and international routes in North America -- are a result of Delta pilots in the late 80s sticking their nose up at flying those smaller jets because it was "beneath them". In the wake of that decision (and the ripple-effects at other airline pilot unions after the DALPA decision) is an enormous subcontracting industry that has been created and brought with it a huge number of "second-class citizen" pilot/FA/maintenance jobs in terms of lower wages, crappier work rules, and terrible schedules...and all for doing essentially the same work for the same passengers as the major airlines. View Quote 100% I find subtle irony that I despise the regionals yet fly for Delta now, but hey, that decision was way before my time. LOL |
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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[#28]
Originally Posted By CFII: 100% I find subtle irony that I despise the regionals yet fly for Delta now, but hey, that decision was way before my time. LOL View Quote What's kind of sad is that the current seniority lists at all the legacies are jam-packed with pilots who had to suffer through the regionals...and yet scope clauses still get ever-so-slightly loosened regularly for pieces of silver and other shiny bits in contract negotiations. Sadly, we are our own worst enemies. |
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[#29]
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[#30]
Originally Posted By Ameshawki: Friend is an FO on 767. He seems happy. View Quote How old is he? Where did he work previously? Atlas is not a bad job, but it's not a good job. Things are getting better, but we are grossly underpaid for what we do, and we have been scarred by 20 plus years of hostile management. Sadly, FEDEX will now suffer greatly under JD's slash and burn carpet baggery. |
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"I will leave when I have your wounded." MAJ Kelly
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[Last Edit: lucky_dog]
[#31]
Originally Posted By Ameshawki: Friend is an FO on 767. He seems happy. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Ameshawki: Originally Posted By TimeOnTarget: Atlas is still hiring because we can't keep people. Apply at your own risk. Friend is an FO on 767. He seems happy. Seems happy, or is happy? Is he a 20somthingyear old and this is his adult first job? You couldn’t pay me enough to go to Atlas, but some guys like it. Heck there’s even people out there who claim they like flying for NetJets. Misery loves company. I’d go to ZW before one of them. |
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[#32]
Originally Posted By TimeOnTarget: How old is he? Where did he work previously? Atlas is not a bad job, but it's not a good job. Things are getting better, but we are grossly underpaid for what we do, and we have been scarred by 20 plus years of hostile management. Sadly, FEDEX will now suffer greatly under JD's slash and burn carpet baggery. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By TimeOnTarget: Originally Posted By Ameshawki: Friend is an FO on 767. He seems happy. How old is he? Where did he work previously? Atlas is not a bad job, but it's not a good job. Things are getting better, but we are grossly underpaid for what we do, and we have been scarred by 20 plus years of hostile management. Sadly, FEDEX will now suffer greatly under JD's slash and burn carpet baggery. Many thousands of us (and our families) whose jobs were cut March 21 already are suffering from DRIVE. |
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[#33]
Originally Posted By esa17: I appreciate that. However, I was being a bit facetious. I stopped applying to WN years ago because I was afraid to get hired. I absolutely love being a 135/91 management pilot. That said, I’d happily buy you a beer for being a good dude. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By esa17: Originally Posted By BillofRights: You can’t think that way. The last passenger saved off the Titanic, was still happy to be warm and dry. Never, never give up. I appreciate that. However, I was being a bit facetious. I stopped applying to WN years ago because I was afraid to get hired. I absolutely love being a 135/91 management pilot. That said, I’d happily buy you a beer for being a good dude. . Pilots always stick together. We’re a true band of Brothers. |
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GD- "It's kind of like wading through through slimy lake bed with your feet to find clams below the surface".
- gtfoxy |
[#34]
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[#35]
Originally Posted By MudEagle: What's kind of sad is that the current seniority lists at all the legacies are jam-packed with pilots who had to suffer through the regionals...and yet scope clauses still get ever-so-slightly loosened regularly for pieces of silver and other shiny bits in contract negotiations. Sadly, we are our own worst enemies. View Quote I think both DAL and UAL's recent contracts actually tightened scope wrt to RJ's. I think we're currently seeing the fewest RJ's we've had in decades. Break break I still think it's a decent time to get into the game. Most of the slowing of hiring is due to aircraft/engine manufacturers and bringing instructors to the line for summer flying. I still think we're on track to hire 500-1000 pilots at DAL. 1,000 pilots is still A LOT of pilots. I remember guys laughing at the company saying we'd never be able to train 1000+ pilots/year. Now, we slow to 1,000 and people act like the world is crumbling around us (not saying that is you CFII). Then again, this industry is hire till you furlough lol. |
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[#36]
Find a way to prevent assholes, jerks, the entitled, loudmouths, seat kickers, morbidly obese, and morons to fly.
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[#37]
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