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Posted: 4/22/2024 4:01:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:02:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Agilt] [#1]
Does it make the vet more money, or less? If the answer is yes, it’s going to become more prevalent. Especially with the corporate vet stuff buying everything up.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:04:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Sounds like one of the new corporate shops or an emergency vet.

Lots of vets seem like they're getting practice management training from an infomercial chiro. Anything to keep the revenue coming in.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:04:55 PM EDT
[#3]
I don't blame them. I've seen how unhinged some "pet parents" are. Any suggestion to put their heckin' pupperino down prematurely would probably result in some sort of lawsuit.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:07:30 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:08:19 PM EDT
[#5]
How the hell does it cost $1500 to keep a pet overnight at a vet clinic?  


Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:08:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: safe1] [#6]
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:13:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Morgan321:
How the hell does it cost $1500 to keep a pet overnight at a vet clinic?  


View Quote


No kidding, it's in a kennel given water/food and taken out a couple times to go to the bathroom
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:14:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Had our dog do this. Got the quote for surgery, decided it was too much, asked the vet if they could put the dog down when it was time (she wasn’t eating). They said no you can surrender it to a rescue organization, and they will pay for the surgery.

Went home told the kids the dog was going to die. Everyone cries. I started researching non invasive ways to get the dog to pass the item she swallowed. Fed her Vaseline. Fed her whatever people food I could get her to eat because she would not eat dog food and was losing weight and had no energy. About a week maybe two later the dog pukes up what she ate and she is fine and normal months later.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:14:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Doesn't sound like they were advocating for anyone but themselves.  They used the pet and the owner's feelings for their pet as a tool to leverage money out of the owner.  The behavior is predatory.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:19:01 PM EDT
[#10]
Back when I had dogs we had a vet that really did have their best interests as the primary task.  Sometimes it was cheap, sometimes it was costly but I never felt that the course of care was about money.  Much like physicians that care for humans, some are motivated by nothing other than the dollar, some really do care about the patients.  I know a few of each kind, some are neighbors.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:20:27 PM EDT
[#11]
The vet I use has always advocated for the pet, to an extent.

They have always been very forthcoming in that if the treatment won't cure them, but only make them comfortable for a time being, then they'll advocate for the more compassionate avenue.

That's why the cat I had over 10 years ago was put down. He had a kidney infection that could not be cured. They could make him comfortable, but they said it would never get better and they could only make it so he wasn't in so much pain. So I decided, pretty much at the exact moment they suggested it, to have him put down. It sucked, it really, really did. But I refuse to see an animal suffer. And putting him down was the more humane thing to do.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:23:02 PM EDT
[#12]
It all depends on how big a boat or how many ex wives they have. Given you are in Ohio it’s probably the later.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:23:57 PM EDT
[#13]
In my experience, Vets are going to recommend whatever is most profitable for them. On more than one occasion, we have been given false hope as a means to convince us to pay for more treatment.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:25:47 PM EDT
[#14]
This pet shit has gotten outta hand, just another high dollar grift.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:26:02 PM EDT
[#15]
I have not run into that with any of the vets around here.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:26:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: glklvr] [#16]
Emergency vets suck. The one time we had to go to one they basically gave us a menu of services and asked us what we wanted. We were like "we're asking *you all* what you think we should do".

We've been blessed to have vets who genuinely care about the animals and know when it's time and not just try to gig you for money, which is good, cuz time is getting short for this old gal- almost 18.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:27:17 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Morgan321:
How the hell does it cost $1500 to keep a pet overnight at a vet clinic?  


View Quote
Local 24h Emergency Vet wanted that much two years ago with my puppers. I said I will do the care he needs until he's better.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:27:31 PM EDT
[#18]
Originally Posted By safe1:
A neighbor took their sick dog to the vet.  They did xrays and found it had eaten something and whatever it was, was lodged in its intestines.  They said she owed $68.00, $500 for X-rays and the surgery to remove blockage would be 3k.  She agreed.  She called the next day to see how the pup was doing, they said it needed to stay another night and that would be another $1,500.00. She agreed.  She called the following day to check on it.  The office told her they would like to keep it one more night.

She asked if it was breathing on it's own, they replied "yes".  She said pull the IV, I'm coming to get it.  Once there she said she would not have gone with the surgery option if she knew it was going to be over 5k, she would have likely put it down. The vet replied "we always advocate for the pet."

I know Arfcom is very sensitive to the well being of pets.  Most farmers in our area will do the normal vet care, usually when the vet makes it's large animal visits. Most aren't going to spend into the thousands for treatment. My question is this. Is it common for veterinarians to only offer surgical options these days?  Is "advocating for the pet" a prevalent thing?
View Quote


I had a vet try to "advocate" giving my cat chemotherapy.  

I found an old school country vet after that.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:28:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:29:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Morgan321:
How the hell does it cost $1500 to keep a pet overnight at a vet clinic?  


View Quote


The University of Minnesota Vet clinic wanted just over $1300/night to watch my dog.
She had eaten 5-8lbs of cat litter and was blocked up big time.
They wanted to surgically remove it all and watch her for a couple/few nights.
I heard their quote and gasped.

They then offered to dump a bag of fluids into her, subcutaneously and send her home.
I took her home and she basically spent the next 6 hours wrapping every 30 minutes. It started and shit and turned into basically concrete.
She left little piles of concrete all over the backyard and was just fine the next day.

Labs are tough.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:31:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Makarov:
In my experience, Vets are going to recommend whatever is most profitable for them. On more than one occasion, we have been given false hope as a means to convince us to pay for more treatment.
View Quote


Our dog started limping one day.  Wife takes her to the vet who does an x-ray and diagnoses arthritis that needs a $20/day pill to treat.  
I get home from work and immediately see the dog has blisters on one of her paws from walking on hot pavement the prior weekend.  
A few days later the blisters are healed and the dog isn't limping..... "see the pills worked" says the wife.  Needless to say we didn't refill the pills and the dog hasn't limped since.  

I took the dog for her next rabies shot and asked the vet about it.... "well she does have arthritis, the s-ray says so" they say.  Shrugged their shoulders when I asked why they didn't notice blisters on her paws.  

I haven't been to a vet clinic worth a damn in a very long time.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:33:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: nightstalker] [#22]
$1500 for overnight seems high (ludicrous). What am I missing.?

anyway  https://spotpet.com/get-them-covered?utm_source=simondog&aff_id=1011l93523&utm_campaign=1011l3888&utm_content=0&adref=lead40&clickref=1101lyrqRjRt&clickref=1101lyrqRjRt&utm_medium=affiliate

Maybe get insurance and pay monthly so it won't be personally traumatizing to get a big bill.

Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:40:56 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Morgan321:
How the hell does it cost $1500 to keep a pet overnight at a vet clinic?  


View Quote


We had a cat that had to have surgery a few years back.  The vet said $970, and he would stay overnight.  They ended up needing to keep him another night, and the final total was......$970.  I'd suggest the person mentioned in the OP needs a new vet who states prices up front and stands by them.

Heck, our previous vet once had a cat in for removing a tooth for $500.  When I went to pick her up afterwards he told me he had to remove three other teeth, and the bill was now $1,200.  I told him that since he hadn't felt the need to call me or the missus beforehand, all I was paying was the original quoted price, and he could put the other teeth back in if he felt so inclined.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:41:48 PM EDT
[#24]
As far as I know, for a long time, its been the position of veterinarians to detail all of the possible care, even if they know it doesn't make sense.  If they don't tell you that you could take your 15 year old cat to a university for $8700 chemo, they're potentially on the hook for not telling you.  I'm pretty sure most of them take their oath as advocating for animals first, and everything else pretty secondary.

Having said that, there are plenty of vets that will lead you to the path of euthanasia when appropriate.  There's also plenty that work at corporately aggregated practices or emergency vets where presenting the most expensive options is a thing, and they're paid production.

There's a reason that female veterinarians have >400% higher suicide rates   than the general population.  If you're in human emergency medicine, you're forced by EMTALA to treat patients that walk in, and get them stable, without worrying about money.  When a crying family shows up with a pet, a vet has to have the shitty conversation about money up front.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:44:32 PM EDT
[#25]
Most vets have been a scam for a long time. Used to be a cheap clinic around here that I would take my dog to. At one point they thought he had some kind of blood cancer. Vet says, "it's either cancer or he ate poison. The testing for this is about $2000, or I could give him steroids for the next few weeks." He saw my expression and agreed he wouldn't pay that much, either.

Tried steroids, and he was fine. That vet retired recently. My dog died last year (not related to the blood stuff). Don't have a new dog yet, but the fact that I have no idea where I'd take one now is influencing the delay.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:44:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Echd] [#26]
I have always felt my vet is reasonable and while my current dog has had no health issues, I've had some in the past that were seriously injured or hurt and fixed up for expensive but what I felt was a reasonable rate.

Some of these quotes are just crazy to me!

That said I know someone who spent upwards of $8000 to get her lab fixed up after he apparently got into some xylitol, which I had no idea was such serious bad juju to a dog.

I'm sure it varies but I never got the impression that independent small animal vets made super major money. Is it big chains buying out the small guy pimping this like in so many industries?
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:48:32 PM EDT
[#27]
You can negotiate with the Vet. Most all of the Vets I've dealt with really don't like putting down animals if they don't have to. Tell them what you're willing to pay and if they can't do it tell them to put the animal down.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 4:52:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Vets have become a business more than a doctor for your pet.

Same way our health care has gone up with urgent care places now charging 400 or more per visit.

Link Posted: 4/22/2024 5:09:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AL25:
You can negotiate with the Vet. Most all of the Vets I've dealt with really don't like putting down animals if they don't have to. Tell them what you're willing to pay and if they can't do it tell them to put the animal down.
View Quote


This has been my experience.

They'll work with you if they can.  Not so much now, but when I was in college the local vets negotiated to meet my finances (which weren't much).
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 5:15:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: IdahoPCCinc] [#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Makarov:
In my experience, Vets are going to recommend whatever is most profitable for them. On more than one occasion, we have been given false hope as a means to convince us to pay for more treatment.
View Quote


Tell us a little about your experience in the veterinarian industry ???


My wife has been in the vet business going on 30 years.

Everything from the rich and famous of San Diego to the farms of Idaho.

1st thing folks should know.....some vet clinics are part of various corporations.
You will get over charged and billed for everything using these vet hospitals.
It's the worst kind of business practice that takes advantage of people.


2nd....negotiate and get a price up front for everything. For most legit vets, this isn't a problem.
Many will do payment plans, saving you CC fee's.


3rd....be prepared to put your pet down if you cannot afford the costs.
This is a sad, but realistic view of some situations.
You have to realize there is a balance.


Something else to ponder....if the injury to your pet isn't life threatening.....you can research various hospitals for the best price.

A recent example......

Wife's sister has a young French bulldog that gets a leg injury.
Vet hospitals near Carlsbad CA were between $6K to $7K to fix him....including the former vet hospital where wife worked.

Wife's current facility here in Idaho offered the same surgery to her for less than half of that....this also included doing a neuter on the little fella.
The downside.....wife's sister is an executive that can work remote.
So she stayed with us for almost 6 weeks while the dog had the surgery and did post care follow ups.
At least she could cook better than my wife !!



.





Link Posted: 4/22/2024 5:38:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DoverGunner] [#31]
Originally Posted By safe1:
A neighbor took their sick dog to the vet.  They did xrays and found it had eaten something and whatever it was, was lodged in its intestines.  They said she owed $68.00, $500 for X-rays and the surgery to remove blockage would be 3k.  She agreed.  She called the next day to see how the pup was doing, they said it needed to stay another night and that would be another $1,500.00. She agreed.  She called the following day to check on it.  The office told her they would like to keep it one more night.

She asked if it was breathing on it's own, they replied "yes".  She said pull the IV, I'm coming to get it.  Once there she said she would not have gone with the surgery option if she knew it was going to be over 5k, she would have likely put it down. The vet replied "we always advocate for the pet."

I know Arfcom is very sensitive to the well being of pets.  Most farmers in our area will do the normal vet care, usually when the vet makes it's large animal visits. Most aren't going to spend into the thousands for treatment. My question is this. Is it common for veterinarians to only offer surgical options these days?  Is "advocating for the pet" a prevalent thing?
View Quote

Seems to me she choose poorly. She should have called around and gotten prices.
A country vet would have been a whole lot cheaper IMHO
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 5:51:39 PM EDT
[#32]
The vet I just lost due to retirement was old school and never suggest going broke for a dog..

Now if you wanted to he would do his best but he was real upfront and it's hard to find a replacement.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 5:53:47 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By byron2112:
This pet shit has gotten outta hand, just another high dollar grift.
View Quote


This.

If I could get the rabies vaccine, I wouldn't take my dog at all. I'd just give them the shots myself. I did sheep and goats when I was a kid in 4-H, there's nothing magical about giving a vaccine.

I have heelers. 2 blue and a red. Absolutely great dogs but they are basically a hillbilly Belgian Malinois that smokes unfiltered cigarettes, drinks bottom shelf booze and lives in a singlewide behind the scrapyard. They don't like outsiders and they don't like other dogs. If they carried guns, they would carry Maverick 88's and Ruger P89 pistols and still try to shank you in the neck with a femur boned they chewed to a sharp point. That's just who they are. That's who they need to be to run cattle.

I loaded them in the truck a few weeks ago and took them to Tractor Supply to get shots at their vet clinic. Not only did they want $165/dog, they wouldn't walk out to my truck to give the shots. They wanted me to bring the dogs in the store.

Are you out of your fucking mind?

These are farm dogs.

They are losing touch, especially for a service that works out of a Tractor Supply store.


Link Posted: 4/22/2024 5:59:37 PM EDT
[#34]
We spent well over 20k on our dog with her chemo. She got a couple more good years with us and I don’t regret spending that. I wish it would have cured her but it was only time. Vet was up front with us at all times and said he could not predict if she would go into remission or how long it would last. I’m pretty sure the vet bills out more in a day than I do with a full load of patients
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 6:01:31 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Makarov:
In my experience, Vets are going to recommend whatever is most profitable for them. On more than one occasion, we have been given false hope as a means to convince us to pay for more treatment.
View Quote


We went to one vet at one clinic for years, she's awesome and has always been honest, open, and has never pushed for unnecessary care.  She left the clinic and we went back a few times to other docs there.  The prices kept creeping up, and I started feeling like they were fleecing us.  Found that the vet we'd used had moved to another clinic even closer to us, so we went back to her there.  She didn't say as much, but evidently the new management at the old clinic were pushing HARD for that $$$$$$ model and she left over it.

There's still good ones out there, just gotta hunt for 'em.
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 6:18:28 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kanati:
Sounds like one of the new corporate shops or an emergency vet.

Lots of vets seem like they're getting practice management training from an infomercial chiro. Anything to keep the revenue coming in.
View Quote


I have found this to be the norm with the corporate and emergency vets.  My local vet is very reasonable but always gives the choices.  A dog a few years back had lymphoma and she recommend Prednisone to extend its life but I went the full chemo route.  Made the dog suffer and me broker in the end and I am not sure we extended his life anyhow.

The emergency vets are always trying to get another day and it is so far beyond a reasonable price it is sickening.  
Link Posted: 4/22/2024 6:34:25 PM EDT
[#37]
the new generation of DVM's have accepted this "advocating"

even some of the older generation DVM's have starting doing it - because they are seeing its effectiveness.
Link Posted: 4/23/2024 6:12:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheOtherDave] [#38]
I like my dog, but $3k is kind of a limit for me. It sucks putting a price on their head but a vet will spend your last dollar and after giving an animal a place in my family and household and literally spoiling the shit out of it compared to the deal it would get out in nature, I don’t feel like I owe them spending myself into the poor house.

My Dad’s last dog is a perfect example of why I feel this way. He adopted a pug with some obvious facial deformities and found out in the first week that the dogs blood levels were way out of whack and he needed a $4k (early 2000’s dollars BTW) kidney shunt surgery immediately. So he got guilted into it. After the surgery, the dog saw no change at all in his blood levels, so he spent the rest of his life eating expensive special dog food, and my dad got a little asshole dog that always felt like shit and had terrible death breath because of the decay caused by his facial deformities. He had been a dog owner for decades at that point and this dog cured him of that forever.
Link Posted: 4/23/2024 6:47:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Jerret_S] [#39]
The ones around me never do emergencies which kind of pisses me off.

I have taken our 5 year old dog from day 1 we got her to this one small vet. They spayed her, removed a cyst, years worth of yearly shots, diagnosed her losing fur on her ear very cheaply in one appointment(allergies).

Dog gets In fight with a groundhog and her lip gets ripped open. I call that vet. Explain situation, I already cleaned the wound on the dog. I just want some antibiotics in the very least today and will definitely come in on the next regular appointment I can get. Nothing open for a week and they can't do anything for meds without seeing the dog. I say I just had the dog in for shots 2 months ago, look at the account, the dog is still 80 lbs.

All the other vets in the county were the same wait of a week. But I don't blame them we weren't a regular there.

Ended up going to an emergency vet and they only charged me $250 for a everything with meds. In and out in 15 minutes. We use that vet now. They were great when we had to put our one cat down, which sucked for us, but they gave us all the time we needed, nice humane set up, etc.
Link Posted: 4/23/2024 6:58:42 AM EDT
[#40]
Used to have a good vet for the dog. He moved on to large animals only and I don’t blame him. With him I would hold the dog (GSD) and he would give him the damn shots. Everyone else wants to make a big production of it! One nut made sure to tell me she provides acupuncture for pets. Farm vets don’t want to bother with just a dog and the rest cater to yuppie goofs.
Link Posted: 4/23/2024 7:00:07 AM EDT
[#41]
None of the vets at the office we go to are like that from our experience.  They're a unique place though.  All the docs are very homeopathic for lack of a better term.  They also do farm animals.  Our last dog had severe lifelong issues.  The docs never once made us feel inadequate, nor did any of it feel like a money grab.  Hell, they eventually had us stop all medicine/treatment because our dog always had an adverse reaction.  They eventually told us just keep him comfortable and happy.  We got another 8 years out of him.
Link Posted: 4/23/2024 7:05:11 AM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Axehund:
Used to have a good vet for the dog. He moved on to large animals only and I don’t blame him. With him I would hold the dog (GSD) and he would give him the damn shots. Everyone else wants to make a big production of it! One nut made sure to tell me she provides acupuncture for pets. Farm vets don’t want to bother with just a dog and the rest cater to yuppie goofs.
View Quote


I'd lose my mind if the doc turned shots into a production.

The vet we see for our new pup is a unique dude.  Legit looks like Picasso, is from Spain, and has been a vet in multiple countries as well as a professor.  He is amazing with shots, he's so damn slick we don't even notice.  He sits on the floor, plays, gets a little rough handed petting, and then wa-bam, shot goes in lol.
Link Posted: 4/23/2024 7:18:52 AM EDT
[#43]
When I could not get a vet to see my kittah on a weekend because her renal failure spiraled out of control I began euthanizing them myself.

What is more stressful, a 1.5 hour car ride to a place you dont know or dad wrapping you in a t shirt that smells like him and making the pain stop by just taking you outside.

It never gets easier and we now have indoor only soft cats that complicates matters a bit.

A kind, painless death is the only thing any living organism on the planet has no guarantee of having. If I am able, I will provide that to my friends with fur.
Link Posted: 4/23/2024 7:20:27 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Morgan321:
How the hell does it cost $1500 to keep a pet overnight at a vet clinic?  
View Quote
It doesn't cost that, but that's what they're charging. Step 3 - PROFIT!
Link Posted: 4/23/2024 7:40:56 AM EDT
[#45]
$1500 is what it costs for a HUMAN to stay overnight at a HUMAN HOSPITAL (ward status).

WTF is the vet clinic doing for that $1500??? I bet it isn't telemetry, pulse ox, vitals and assessments every 4 hours, hourly rounding and room service!
Link Posted: 4/23/2024 8:00:58 AM EDT
[#46]
Advocating for the pet is common. So is providing a cost breakdown and justification for treatment, as well as informed consent. They should have (and probably did) tell her the options, alternatives and cost breakdown. The decision she made in the moment may not have been the same as she would have made in hindsight. People will tell the version of the story that gets the reaction they want.
Link Posted: 4/23/2024 8:27:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: OKnativeson] [#47]
we are seeing a new dynamic in the Veterinary field.

"Specialists" and normal DVM's referring everything other than routine checkups and possibly spay and neuters.

everything else is getting referred in metro areas. for numerous reasons.

many of my clientele openly complain that new DVM's brought on to staff, cannot or will not perform most procedures and those that do want outrageous amounts of equipment to "practice" medicine with their "Nurses".

its gone insane.

I will say this.
don't ever let your wife take your pet into the Vet for ailments. ever.
Link Posted: 4/23/2024 8:27:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Mosin762] [#48]
Vet care has gotten crazy.

I love my dogs, but about $3000 is the most I'll go for a single emergency. And that depends on what it's for, age of the dog, and chance of recovery.

Just spent almost $700 on yearly exam, vaccines, and 24 months of heartworm pills for two dogs. Have three more due in a month. They won't sell you hw pills or flea and tick pills without a yearly exam anymore, even though I keep them on prevention year round. Used to never have a problem buying pills with just the one initial HW test.

My dogs already get better medical care than I do, lol. Last time I saw a doctor was for a broken ankle a few years ago.
Link Posted: 4/23/2024 8:38:22 AM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Curmudgeon762:
We spent well over 20k on our dog with her chemo. She got a couple more good years with us and I don’t regret spending that.
View Quote


Good on you for giving her two more years.

I love my dogs. But...
If they need a 20k surgery I gonna be like:
He had a good run.
It was his time to go.
Jesus called and he answered.
Link Posted: 4/23/2024 8:49:51 AM EDT
[#50]
Running up the bill.

Had an old cat that developed a tumor under it’s tongue.  Would have to be removed surgically and cat would need to be tube fed the rest of it’s life.

Screw that, put the cat down.  The vet did not like our decision and pulled all the stops to pressure us like a timeshare salesman.  The guilt trip she was laying on thick was really wearing on the wife but we held firm.  

Never used that vet again.
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