User Panel
Posted: 4/24/2024 2:00:20 PM EDT
Let me explain why.
If you are the working poor, you are infact going to be covered by medicaid especially if you have kids....the numbers just fall like that. So, there is a huge incentive to not ever make more than what it needed because if you do you'll lose medicaid. Another thing is that the working poor's healthcare at the their job is not subsidized at all. I worked for a major Hotel chain and for a family plan premiums were about $800 a month and you then have deductables, OOP etc. So...still fucking expensive to get sick. So...we can now see how one big issues teh welfare state has grown so much is that the working poor is finacnially inventivized to stay poor. That's one way single payer would solve the issues. You would not have to take into consideration making more money and losing your healthcare or making it un affordable. The ACA does not solve this at all...period. Those plans may be free, but OOP expensed and deductibles are in the thousands. So, by shifting the insurance premiums to payroll deduction or when you file your taxes...you will elimiate this issuie and more people will start to make money and rise out of poverty and put more money into FICA accounts, which will help medicaid, mediaare, and soc sec. I have never ever heard anyone ever bring this point up ever...probably because the electoed officials are all upper class and the poor aren't well read into this shit. |
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Take it easy and if it's easy take it twice
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Originally Posted By midcap: Let me explain why. If you are the working poor, you are infact going to be covered by medicaid especially if you have kids....the numbers just fall like that. So, there is a huge incentive to not ever make more than what it needed because if you do you'll lose medicaid. Another thing is that the working poor's healthcare at the their job is not subsidized at all. I worked for a major Hotel chain and for a family plan premiums were about $800 a month and you then have deductables, OOP etc. So...still fucking expensive to get sick. So...we can now see how one big issues teh welfare state has grown so much is that the working poor is finacnially inventivized to stay poor. That's one way single payer would solve the issues. You would not have to take into consideration making more money and losing your healthcare or making it un affordable. The ACA does not solve this at all...period. Those plans may be free, but OOP expensed and deductibles are in the thousands. So, by shifting the insurance premiums to payroll deduction or when you file your taxes...you will elimiate this issuie and more people will start to make money and rise out of poverty and put more money into FICA accounts, which will help medicaid, mediaare, and soc sec. I have never ever heard anyone ever bring this point up ever...probably because the electoed officials are all upper class and the poor aren't well read into this shit. View Quote |
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Proud and grateful Tennessee Squire
flgfish: "Low mileage cars piss me off. You saving your girlfriend for the next guy? Drive the car and enjoy it. A 911 is damn near bulletproof." |
Originally Posted By midcap: Let me explain why. If you are the working poor, you are infact going to be covered by medicaid especially if you have kids....the numbers just fall like that. So, there is a huge incentive to not ever make more than what it needed because if you do you'll lose medicaid. Another thing is that the working poor's healthcare at the their job is not subsidized at all. I worked for a major Hotel chain and for a family plan premiums were about $800 a month and you then have deductables, OOP etc. So...still fucking expensive to get sick. So...we can now see how one big issues teh welfare state has grown so much is that the working poor is finacnially inventivized to stay poor. That's one way single payer would solve the issues. You would not have to take into consideration making more money and losing your healthcare or making it un affordable. The ACA does not solve this at all...period. Those plans may be free, but OOP expensed and deductibles are in the thousands. So, by shifting the insurance premiums to payroll deduction or when you file your taxes...you will elimiate this issuie and more people will start to make money and rise out of poverty and put more money into FICA accounts, which will help medicaid, mediaare, and soc sec. I have never ever heard anyone ever bring this point up ever...probably because the electoed officials are all upper class and the poor aren't well read into this shit. View Quote Single payer is not the answer. You need to stick to fat women. If you want to reduce poverty, quit subsiding having bastard kids. Don't provide any taxpayer assistance. Don't provide anything to women who get divorced with kids if they were not married at least five years before having the kid and 25 years old. Even then have the parents take care of the woman and kids if the sperm donor is gone. |
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Health care is a perfect example of the government sticking more and more its finger in the pie, then saying, "See? See? Free markets don't work!" ICD 10 is a perfect example of this - number of "diagnoses" went up by a factor of 5.
Single payer is a an even-worse clusterfuck of unimaginable proportions. Why do you think all rich Brits and Canadians come here for health care? And what kind of bullshit is Medicare? Regardless of your financial status or health care plan, everyone at 65 must go on Medicare? How's that working out for everyone? We need less regulation, not more, of our healthcare system. But because of Medicare and Medicaid, I'm not sure the system can be "unfucked." |
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Posterity! You will never know, how much it cost the present Generation, to preserve your Freedom! I hope you will make a good Use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in Heaven, that I ever took half the Pains to preserve it.---John Adams
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Everyone wants to change the system so they don't have to pay. It's fucking magic.
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"I would live this war one day at a time, and I promised myself that if I survived, I would find a small farm somewhere in the Pennsylvania countryside and spend the remainder of my life in quiet and peace.” - Richard Winters
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Get rid of tax free medical insurance, except for catastrophic situations (very expensive). Also get rid of medicare.
The fundamental problem with our system is that for routine care you have a third party payer. |
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Originally Posted By intheburbs: Health care is a perfect example of the government sticking more and more its finger in the pie, then saying, "See? See? Free markets don't work!" ICD 10 is a perfect example of this - number of "diagnoses" went up by a factor of 5. Single payer is a an even-worse clusterfuck of unimaginable proportions. Why do you think all rich Brits and Canadians come here for health care? And what kind of bullshit is Medicare? Regardless of your financial status or health care plan, everyone at 65 must go on Medicare? How's that working out for everyone? We need less regulation, not more, of our healthcare system. But because of Medicare and Medicaid, I'm not sure the system can be "unfucked." View Quote Yep. |
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The ACA and Medicaid expansion within the ACA was designed to be a dependency trap.
Private insurance subsidies go away with Medicaid expansion and if you make too much for Medicaid you are dropped completely. Single payer will be worse. Canadian healthcare workers are encouraging people to choose suicide. Fuck that. |
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Yeah it's Broken....But that happened in 08/09? ish.
I'm going to have oral surgery tomorrow and Paying 100% cash. I lost my medicaid between the last operation and this one and the price is actually cheaper in cash than what they billed the insurance company. I was under the impression that insurance was able to negotiate an better cost thats why it was a good deal. Nope... AND, I don't have to play all the games with letting them waist my time. Im paying you, you do what I want or i'll find someone else to take my money. I said it to the DR today. Her face was worth it..... I hope this newfound liberation I have will change my interaction for future medical procedures...... I pay=You STFU and keep getting my money... You want to argue or lecture= GFY, I will find someone who wants to get payed. I'm done playing |
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Is this like the people who don't want to make more money because it will bump them up to the next tax bracket?
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Never before has so much been owed by so many to so few.
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When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
PA, USA
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I’m old too.
Which cloud we yelling at? |
Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco. Nothing!
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Single Payer reduces it to the lowest common denominator in everything. There is no carrot for innovation or change, only the whip for being sick outside the lines.
"Well, Mr. Midcap, seems your diabetes is not responding to our standard treatment. I'm afraid your quality of life is not going to meet the minimum requirements. Please have a seat in the blue room." |
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"It is a political convention. The criminals will be on the inside." -ParityError
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How is single pay going to incentivize quality people to choose medicine as a career?
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"Send lawyers, guns and money
The shit has hit the fan..." |
Originally Posted By Low_Country: Is this like the people who don't want to make more money because it will bump them up to the next tax bracket? View Quote There is a HUGE difference between....now you get to pay $1,200 a month and we will take an extra chunk of any money you earn over what you currently make |
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RIP CeCe and FCSD you will be missed
Mike_314..If there was communism in the desert, there would soon be a shortage of sand. 87% shit posting - 13% I am caught in a rule change RSM 20/21 RSL 4522: we will shit on your pillow.. (3613 note) |
RIP CeCe and FCSD you will be missed
Mike_314..If there was communism in the desert, there would soon be a shortage of sand. 87% shit posting - 13% I am caught in a rule change RSM 20/21 RSL 4522: we will shit on your pillow.. (3613 note) |
Leftist ideology promotes poverty. Look for Leftism.
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Valentino Rossi, the only 46 that matters.
Once you compromise your thoughts, you are a candidate for mediocrity. |
Originally Posted By Scoobysmak: There is a HUGE difference between....now you get to pay $1,200 a month and we will take an extra chunk of any money you earn over what you currently make View Quote The notion of trying to make less money to retain government benefits is a foreign concept to me. Apologies. |
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Never before has so much been owed by so many to so few.
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I can't afford insurance or direct medical bills.
I have not and will not see a doctor for any reason. Fuck them all, they are all thieves who fool people out of their money. |
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Originally Posted By Booray: No, benefits getting cut based on income is different than progressive taxation. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Booray: Originally Posted By Low_Country: Is this like the people who don't want to make more money because it will bump them up to the next tax bracket? No, benefits getting cut based on income is different than progressive taxation. Here’s a situation. A person is retired, but well below the Medicare age. They get ACA insurance. Then they want to dip into their 401k to do home modifications. First, the withdrawals are taxed. Second, since it is now ‘income’ it takes you beyond the threshold for qualifying for ACA, and you have to pay back all the difference between ACA and a non-marketplace insurance policy. |
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Originally Posted By AmericanPeople: Single payer is not the answer. You need to stick to fat women. If you want to reduce poverty, quit subsiding having bastard kids. Don't provide any taxpayer assistance. Don't provide anything to women who get divorced with kids if they were not married at least five years before having the kid and 25 years old. Even then have the parents take care of the woman and kids if the sperm donor is gone. View Quote I read some really stupid crap in a Trump thread but this is the stupidest thing I have read today outside of that thread. |
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I’m tired of paying for other peoples medical care and if you are on Obamacare, I should get to go ahead of you.
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Originally Posted By AmericanPeople: Single payer is not the answer. You need to stick to fat women. If you want to reduce poverty, quit subsiding having bastard kids. Don't provide any taxpayer assistance. Don't provide anything to women who get divorced with kids if they were not married at least five years before having the kid and 25 years old. Even then have the parents take care of the woman and kids if the sperm donor is gone. View Quote Good solid reply. |
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Soldier for Life
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Originally Posted By CTM1: I read some really stupid crap in a Trump thread but this is the stupidest thing I have read today outside of that thread. View Quote You apparently do not understand the real cause of poverty. I gave a solution. Choose to ignore it at your peril....which means tax burden and risk of criminal acts. Most of the problem is traceable to LBJ's Great Society welfare programs. |
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Health insurance is just another part of the progressive rate income tax apparatus.
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S Korean style universal healthcare might work here. it's a copay/coinsurance system that everyone working and employers pay into. insurance companies negotiate prices as a group with providers and there are deductibles
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All systems suck....but ours is the best shitty system in the world.
It costs a lot to be the best. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Oh....and you are paying for a lot of other peoples lunches. They are not free.....because you are paying for them. The only way to bring down medical care costs (and make it mostly better) is to let the market sort it out.....which means that if you cant pay, you suffer and/or die and one of the biggest drivers of costs, the last few months/days of life....well, those people die a little sooner. That aint going to happen. I think we might let the poor die, but we will never let grandma die a few weeks early. So shit will continue to be what it is....only worse. |
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Originally Posted By neshomamench: All systems suck....but ours is the best shitty system in the world. It costs a lot to be the best. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Oh....and you are paying for a lot of other peoples lunches. They are not free.....because you are paying for them. The only way to bring down medical care costs (and make it mostly better) is to let the market sort it out.....which means that if you cant pay, you suffer and/or die and one of the biggest drivers of costs, the last few months/days of life....well, those people die a little sooner. That aint going to happen. I think we might let the poor die, but we will never let grandma die a few weeks early. So shit will continue to be what it is....only worse. View Quote |
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"Send lawyers, guns and money
The shit has hit the fan..." |
Originally Posted By neshomamench: All systems suck....but ours is the best shitty system in the world. It costs a lot to be the best. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Oh....and you are paying for a lot of other peoples lunches. They are not free.....because you are paying for them. The only way to bring down medical care costs (and make it mostly better) is to let the market sort it out.....which means that if you cant pay, you suffer and/or die and one of the biggest drivers of costs, the last few months/days of life....well, those people die a little sooner. That aint going to happen. I think we might let the poor die, but we will never let grandma die a few weeks early. So shit will continue to be what it is....only worse. View Quote Ours is not the vest. Not any more. The farther it has moved away from private pay, the worse it has gotten |
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Take it easy and if it's easy take it twice
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Originally Posted By MikeJGA: Good solid reply. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By MikeJGA: Originally Posted By AmericanPeople: Single payer is not the answer. You need to stick to fat women. If you want to reduce poverty, quit subsiding having bastard kids. Don't provide any taxpayer assistance. Don't provide anything to women who get divorced with kids if they were not married at least five years before having the kid and 25 years old. Even then have the parents take care of the woman and kids if the sperm donor is gone. Good solid reply. No it's a fucking stupid fucking answer as I am not talking about medicaid exclusively. That basically fucking explains the mess we arin, there is no reason to make more money or have less kids as it curently stands...I offer a soloution and you all are too busy watching fox news to think indenpandatly. |
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Take it easy and if it's easy take it twice
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Originally Posted By midcap: Medical school debt repayment. I would have gladly spent 300k to be an MD or DO, if I was going to have all that discharged and made a livable wage. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By midcap: Originally Posted By Mojo_Jojo: How is single pay going to incentivize quality people to choose medicine as a career? Medical school debt repayment. I would have gladly spent 300k to be an MD or DO, if I was going to have all that discharged and made a livable wage. |
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"Send lawyers, guns and money
The shit has hit the fan..." |
Just checking in to say I pay $15,000 a year for United healthcare premiums and the “best” insurance they offer us (small business) has an OOP deductible of $7500 per person, $15k per family.
Just took care of that today with a single (and only) visit to the hospital for my kid. $22,500 spent out of pocket (so far for this year) but insurance paid $1,239 of his visit today! |
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Originally Posted By cavedog: Single Payer reduces it to the lowest common denominator in everything. There is no carrot for innovation or change, only the whip for being sick outside the lines. "Well, Mr. Midcap, seems your diabetes is not responding to our standard treatment. I'm afraid your quality of life is not going to meet the minimum requirements. Please have a seat in the blue room." View Quote I want a crystal ball just so I can see Midcap’s GD thread when the future US single payer healthcare system tells him that he needs to do home peritoneal dialysis for his diabetes induced kidney failure. |
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Whatever is subsidized you get more of it. Let's expand and cover dental. Mental health, sex change, cosmetic surgery etc. There is never a consideration of covering actual costs of actual necessities. It's a trap.
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Live your life as you would wish to have lived, when you come to die. Confucius
When words lose their meaning, a people can move neither hand nor foot. Confucius |
My buddy’s wife had knee surgery recently. The bill for day of surgery was $100K. That doesn’t include meds or rehab after the fact. How in the fuck is the average person with no health insurance supposed to afford that?
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Originally Posted By Low_Country: The notion of trying to make less money to retain government benefits is a foreign concept to me. Apologies. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Low_Country: Originally Posted By Scoobysmak: There is a HUGE difference between....now you get to pay $1,200 a month and we will take an extra chunk of any money you earn over what you currently make The notion of trying to make less money to retain government benefits is a foreign concept to me. Apologies. It’s not to me. Ironically, I first encountered it in person when a hospital I worked at attempted to raise everyone’s hourly wages a few bucks to retain workers. HR started getting pissed off calls from the janitorial and housekeeping staff about losing their benes. Oops. |
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OP decries the welfare state and proposes : MORE welfare state. Communism. Communism for EVERYONE. |
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Originally Posted By Action45: My buddy’s wife had knee surgery recently. The bill for day of surgery was $100K. That doesn’t include meds or rehab after the fact. How in the fuck is the average person with no health insurance supposed to afford that? View Quote did they call ahead to get pricing ? shop around ? i'll turn it around : if they have no insurance -- why should I have to pay for her knee surgery ?? |
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Originally Posted By Mojo_Jojo: Enticing people with money is great, but we want smart people whose primary motivation is to care for patients. I agree, though, with med school debt forgiveness after "X" number of years in practice in an underserved area, or 1 for 1 income tax credits over a period of time. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Mojo_Jojo: Originally Posted By midcap: Originally Posted By Mojo_Jojo: How is single pay going to incentivize quality people to choose medicine as a career? Medical school debt repayment. I would have gladly spent 300k to be an MD or DO, if I was going to have all that discharged and made a livable wage. Of course...and you will get a shit ton of more people who are compasionate and caring if you make the barrier to entry attainable. For example, I know for a fact two people who both grew up lower middle class, but from good famlies. They both took the MCAT and made more than good enough grades to get into medical school, this was after they both had full rides to state university. Do you know the one reason why they didn't persue being a MD? The astronomical costs of attending med school, they just could not wrap their head around the insane amount of money that they would have to borrow to go. They are also very risk adverse people, who would also make great docs. You don't want a fucking gambler to be your doc unless it's some experiemental shit. so that's why they didn't go into it. |
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Take it easy and if it's easy take it twice
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Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: Originally Posted By TheJMan1: Everyone wants to change the system so they don't have to pay. It's fucking magic. +1 who the hell said that? and where did I say that. I said nothing of the sort and specifincally mentioned payroll deduction like FICA |
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Take it easy and if it's easy take it twice
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Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: I want a crystal ball just so I can see Midcap’s GD thread when the future US single payer healthcare system tells him that he needs to do home peritoneal dialysis for his diabetes induced kidney failure. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: Originally Posted By cavedog: Single Payer reduces it to the lowest common denominator in everything. There is no carrot for innovation or change, only the whip for being sick outside the lines. "Well, Mr. Midcap, seems your diabetes is not responding to our standard treatment. I'm afraid your quality of life is not going to meet the minimum requirements. Please have a seat in the blue room." I want a crystal ball just so I can see Midcap’s GD thread when the future US single payer healthcare system tells him that he needs to do home peritoneal dialysis for his diabetes induced kidney failure. the system we have now is getting me there quyickly |
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Take it easy and if it's easy take it twice
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Take it easy and if it's easy take it twice
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Originally Posted By MFP_4073: did they call ahead to get pricing ? shop around ? i'll turn it around : if they have no insurance -- why should I have to pay for her knee surgery ?? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By MFP_4073: Originally Posted By Action45: My buddy’s wife had knee surgery recently. The bill for day of surgery was $100K. That doesn’t include meds or rehab after the fact. How in the fuck is the average person with no health insurance supposed to afford that? did they call ahead to get pricing ? shop around ? i'll turn it around : if they have no insurance -- why should I have to pay for her knee surgery ?? @MFP_4073 you didn’t, they have health insurance |
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Originally Posted By Action45: @MFP_4073 you didn’t, they have health insurance View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Action45: Originally Posted By MFP_4073: Originally Posted By Action45: My buddy’s wife had knee surgery recently. The bill for day of surgery was $100K. That doesn’t include meds or rehab after the fact. How in the fuck is the average person with no health insurance supposed to afford that? did they call ahead to get pricing ? shop around ? i'll turn it around : if they have no insurance -- why should I have to pay for her knee surgery ?? @MFP_4073 you didn’t, they have health insurance maybe he is in the same risk pool as them |
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Take it easy and if it's easy take it twice
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welcome to 2008 glad you're caught up. this was the entire argument made against obamacare. don't worry friend. obamacare was written to make it so bad we all collapsed into a single payer system. plenty of sound bites from the guy who helped craft it all about it. your best bet is to get as healthy as you can on your own and get rid of the docs. wait until you figure out how dei is digging itself into the medical industry.
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Originally Posted By midcap: what are you ever going on about? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By midcap: Originally Posted By MFP_4073: OP decries the welfare state and proposes : MORE welfare state. Communism. Communism for EVERYONE. what are you ever going on about? You started a thread advocating for the government to take from each according to their ability and give to each according to their need. You don’t see a parallel? |
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Originally Posted By intheburbs: And what kind of bullshit is Medicare? Regardless of your financial status or health care plan, everyone at 65 must go on Medicare? How's that working out for everyone? We need less regulation, not more, of our healthcare system. But because of Medicare and Medicaid, I'm not sure the system can be "unfucked." View Quote It has been great for me. Are you on it? If not, maybe stop the Medicare rants until you are. |
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