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USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:26:32 PM EDT
So my agency is transitioning to red dots tomorrow. I personally have never shot anything red dot. We will be at the range all day tomorrow practicing . Any tips?
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CA, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:27:48 PM EDT
[#1]
Put the thing on the thing and pull the thing
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:28:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Look at the target
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USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:29:01 PM EDT
[#3]
That is good advise!
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USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:29:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dsmaccullen]
[#4]
Good thinking Ramasita
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:29:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DukeFan23]
[#5]
Lots of drawing and presenting from the holster.
Also spend the extra money for a FCD mounting plate assuming it’s going on a Glock MOS. Don’t forget proper cowittnesed sights. Preferably Lower 1/3 or 1/4. |
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CHE
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:30:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Focus on the target. The dot will show up once your mind catches up.
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:30:46 PM EDT
[#7]
Tell 'em you just refuse to do it and you're gonna start carrying your old .38 again.
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USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:32:21 PM EDT
[#8]
The only transitioning I support.
Practice a lot and then you’ll see the magic. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:32:40 PM EDT
[#9]
Close your eyes, loosen up your body and stance, draw and open your eyes. Adjust and repeat until you are seeing the dot every time. Then draw on a target if you are seeing the dot and its in the right place break the shot (or dry fire). If not do it again.
Repeat until you forget why you are doing it |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:33:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Silas]
[#10]
Where’s the video that was posted a few weeks back of the instructor explaining why a lot of people don’t shoot well with red-dots?
It was pretty good. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:35:00 PM EDT
[#11]
It took me several weeks worth of practice draws before I became comfortable with one. Now I love it.
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USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:35:09 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RamaSita: Look at the target Yep, Target Focus. Also realize that it may take a bit longer than you realize to be comfortable with it. You have some large number of years doing things one way (iron sights), do be discouraged if you aren't at the exact level within (less than) 8 hours of training. The benefits are huge, like seeing exactly what your suspect is doing, without a block of metal obstructing your view. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:36:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Don't over think you aim. Focus on the target, put the dot on the target, pull the trigger.
Practice your draw a lot, then a lot more. You'll have to be able to draw and present straight into a perfect sight picture. You'll never be able to find the dot under pressure. You've got to do it right the first time. What'll happen is your draw and presentation will end up being perfect if you practice enough. You probably shoot irons by locking your arms straight out and burying your head down into the sight picture. Don't do that with a dot. You draw keeping your head up straight, present with slightly bent elbows and pistol up a little higher than normal. When you draw, point the pistol forward with your support thumb. Support thumb pointing to target. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:38:00 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RamaSita: Look at the target With both eyes open. You will be amazed at the errors in your presentation. This is good! Now you can easily fix them. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:39:53 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wineraner: With both eyes open. You will be amazed at the errors in your presentation. This is good! Now you can easily fix them. The both eyes open is going to take some time to get used too |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:50:12 PM EDT
[#16]
For me it seems the biggest hurdle is losing the dot during recoil and not being able to find it again for my follow up shots. So I would say practice your follow through.
I just got a Leupold Deltapoint Micro on my Glock 44 and have been playing with it. Looks like the secret to using a red dot equipped pistol is going to be lots of practice. Which is why I have one on a .22 lr. I will move on to a dot on my centerfire handguns once I am confident in my presentation and reacquiring the dot after firing. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:59:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Look “through” the dot and at your target.
Work on drawing and presenting your weapon until you can repeatedly do it while having your dot on target. You won’t believe how terrible and inconsistent your presentation is until you start using a dot on your pistol. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:01:33 PM EDT
[#18]
I always teach to start at compressed ready with your gun aimed a bit high. When you punch straight out and drop the gun down into target, the dot will drop down into the windo from 12 o’clock. Once you’ve mastered that, add the draw from holster.
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:02:53 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Badlatitude: Close your eyes, loosen up your body and stance, draw and open your eyes. Adjust and repeat until you are seeing the dot every time. Then draw on a target if you are seeing the dot and it’s in the right place break the shot (or dry fire). If not do it again. Repeat until you forget why you are doing it No. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:04:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By evnash: I always teach to start at compressed ready with your gun aimed a bit high. When you punch straight out and drop the gun down into target, the dot will drop down into the windo from 12 o’clock. Once you’ve mastered that, add the draw from holster. No, and fuck no. You don’t drop in. That’s some Modern Samurai BS. You present the gun in the shortest distance possible to get the dot where you’re looking. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:04:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ArmyInfantryVet]
[#21]
Good thread. Red dots are so easy on rifles, woth aiming and finding the red dot. But red dots on pistols definitely requires some work.
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:06:31 PM EDT
[#22]
OP when I transitioned to a RDS I did draw practice every night, do it as it helps immensely. Your whole career you have been told "front sight, front sight, front sight" but now it is "target, target, target" It takes a little while and a little effort to deprogram yourself. I remember the first time my brain did target instead of front sight automatically, but it took practice on my part.
However once you go RDS you won't want to go back. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:06:35 PM EDT
[#23]
If you’re having a hard time getting a clean presentation, try doing it backwards.
With a good sight picture, move the pistol back to your chest. It’ll help you solidify the pathway for your presentation, to be able to do it forwards. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:07:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Never_A_Wick]
[#24]
For the OP.
Draw gun while staring at the target. Dot should end up right where you’re looking. A plain cardboard torso with a 1” orange dot will give you something to focus on. It will take plenty of reps before you develop a good index. After that, do it regularly to maintain the skill because it’s a bit perishable. You will probably be a little frustrated at first as you’ll lose the dot quite a bit. As you practice, you’ll lose it less. Then, do it strong hand. And weak hand. Practice reloads. Get your eyes back onto the target after the reload and getting the dot back where you’re looking. Then do it with a lean around a wall. Etc. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:08:05 PM EDT
[#25]
87,000 episodes of dry fire.
Seriously though, dry fire often. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:08:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dsmaccullen: The both eyes open is going to take some time to get used too You’ll need at least 1000 draws from the holster to be proficient. 5000 draws to be good. I switched last year. The “focus on the front sight” I did for decades took a long time to unremember. After 1000’s of dry fire and many trips to the range, I’m shooting running little varmints at 30+ yards. I wish I switched years ago.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:08:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Use the minimum brightness needed to see the dot clearly.
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:08:43 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ButterBacon: If you’re having a hard time getting a clean presentation, try doing it backwards. With a good sight picture, move the pistol back to your chest. It’ll help you solidify the pathway for your presentation, to be able to do it forwards. Very good tip. Pay attention to how you holster the gun after firing. Now reverse it. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:08:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Good luck OP.
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:10:50 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dsmaccullen: The both eyes open is going to take some time to get used too You’re still shooting with an eye closed? Oh boy this is gonna be quite the day tomorrow. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:12:52 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dsmaccullen: The both eyes open is going to take some time to get used too Start doing it right away. Don’t even bother experimenting with one eye shooting with the dot. It’s going to suck at first. But you’ll get it if you practice. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:16:02 PM EDT
[#32]
Also, just because you think you're focused on the target doesn't mean you're actually focused on the target.
You might be mid-focused with the dot taking up a lot of your mental attention. Bring some painter's tape or similar and cover the lens of the red dot facing the target. That'll help, especially when starting to develop the target focus, but it's only a start. The idea is that if you tape over the lens, your dominant eye focus will make the target disappear, but if you use both eyes and target focus, the tape disappears and you'll be able to superimpose the dot on the target. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:18:20 PM EDT
[#33]
My advice is to immediately remove the RDS and stick to using the iron sights.
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:19:50 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 11boomboom: Also, just because you think you're focused on the target doesn't mean you're actually focused on the target. You might be mid-focused with the dot taking up a lot of your mental attention. Bring some painter's tape or similar and cover the lens of the red dot facing the target. That'll help, especially when starting to develop the target focus, but it's only a start. The idea is that if you tape over the lens, your dominant eye focus will make the target disappear, but if you use both eyes and target focus, the tape disappears and you'll be able to superimpose the dot on the target. Occluding the glass really helped me make the transition. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:21:53 PM EDT
[#35]
That dot won't fix poor marksmanship fundamentals. If you have your trigger press down, you shouldn't have a hard time ringing steel @ 50yds. Enjoy the bowling style draw too.
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:21:59 PM EDT
[#36]
How’s that work? Is it that tomorrow you CAN switch to a rds, or tomorrow you HAVE to switch to a rds? If it’s the latter, that kinda sucks.
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:24:12 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lungbuster: Occluding the glass really helped me make the transition. It helped me initially and when I revisited my performance with the dot when I was noticing some focus issues on transitions, too. It's a good tool to use periodically even if you're "good" at shooting dots/irons with a target focus. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:27:35 PM EDT
[#38]
We have too
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USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:28:10 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dbrad197: How’s that work? Is it that tomorrow you CAN switch to a rds, or tomorrow you HAVE to switch to a rds? If it’s the latter, that kinda sucks. We have too |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:28:55 PM EDT
[#40]
Don't hunt for the dot. Use the dot to verify the gun is on target.
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:30:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperStormBryan: You probably shoot irons by locking your arms straight out and burying your head down into the sight picture. Don't do that with a dot. You draw keeping your head up straight, present with slightly bent elbows and pistol up a little higher than normal. . ‘ You must have been taught by an instructor that went to Modern Samurai Project course. I tried the bent elbows, but I always revert back to locked elbows. It works for me. 40 years of isosceles is hard to defeat. Take bits and pieces that they teach, and make it work for you. . |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:31:05 PM EDT
[#42]
The dot is going to seem all over the place because you’re not holding the gun steady. You’ve been doing the same with irons, you just couldn’t see it. Embrace the wobble. Also like everyone’s been saying, both eyes open, focused on the target.
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USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:34:00 PM EDT
[#43]
A bunch of cops with new sights on the range all at the same time?
My best suggestion is to be sure to wear your vest. The 180 will probably be broken repeatedly. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:37:35 PM EDT
[#44]
You could do some dry fire tonight with your iron sight pistol. Keep both eyes open and stare at the target. Let the sights come up in your peripheral vision while remaining target focused. Do the same thing with the dot tomorrow.
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:39:10 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SpankMonkey: Focus on the target. The dot will show up once your mind catches up. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:40:18 PM EDT
[#46]
A consistent presentation is critical. Your presentation starts with a consistent and proper grip before drawing from the holster.
Keep both eyes open, focus on the target, do not bring your focus back to the iron sights or red dot. Float the dot over your target, then press the trigger. If you are having problems keeping both eyes open or focusing on the target, put tape over the front of the optic. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:41:42 PM EDT
[#47]
I just did my class. I should have done it long ago. Once you figure the draw and remember NOT to close an eye.. you'll pick it up quick!
Keep both eyes open and on target, push the gun out from your chin and roll the barrel down. The dot will appear. Once dot on target, send it! (Once zeroed of course) Trust that damn dot. Don't worry about you irons. Unless you can't find the dot, line up irons and dot will appear. The glock mos plate is HOT GARBAGE. Trigger pull also has a SHIT ton to do with it. Smooth trigger and you'll hit an egg at 50yrds. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:42:38 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MARINE-ORDIE: I can't stop looking at the dot!!!  Dot focused in spite of occlusion  Target Focus indicators  People asking all the wrong questions  People dont understand red dots |
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USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:45:35 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dbrad197: How’s that work? Is it that tomorrow you CAN switch to a rds, or tomorrow you HAVE to switch to a rds? If it’s the latter, that kinda sucks. We have too |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 8:55:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Actiondiver]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RTX: Tell 'em you just refuse to do it and you're gonna start carrying your old .38 again. I'm sitting around a bonfire in a rocking chair with a S&W Model 10 on now. Loaded 100 rounds this morning for it 
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