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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:10:18 PM EDT
Been watching Grit TV and noticed the Comanche are shown as absolute savages.
Any truth to this? Any good books on the subject? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:10:59 PM EDT
[#1]
Have you read Empire of the Summer Moon?
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:13:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Originally Posted By leadnbrass: Been watching Grit TV and noticed the Comanche are shown as absolute savages. Any truth to this? Any good books on the subject? They were worse than any movie depiction showed them to be ... way worse. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:14:47 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sixgunner45: They were worse than any movie depiction showed them to be ... way worse. Most were. Unimaginable |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:17:34 PM EDT
[#4]
FPNI
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:17:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SouthTexasAR]
[#5]
First post and all that. Read the book definitely recommend.
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:18:51 PM EDT
[#6]
FPNI
"Absolute savages" somehow falls short as a description. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:19:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Empire of the summer moon.
The Comanches were fairly bad as it got. Immediately start torturing the men before killing.(cutting off the bottoms of their feet, scalp, then make them walk around with a spear to their back) Often immediately start raping the women, before slavery to warriors squaw and concubine duty for the man. Kill or adopt the young children. No shit. Plains Indians were fucking brutal. Melissa Lockharts nose was burnt off as a young child before they brought her to San Antonio to sell back to the whites. The sight of mellisa angered the men so much they killed every Indian they could during the peace talks. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:19:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Read the accounts of people that had been captives of...shit, any of the indian tribes.
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:20:50 PM EDT
[#9]
They were kind people….Ole Whitey and his devil juice made them mean.
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USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:22:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stumpy89: Have you read Empire of the Summer Moon? Excellent book. And yes. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:22:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Aikibiker]
[#11]
Indian Depredation in Texas is a close to contemporary account of Comanche activities.
In a word; yes, the Comanche were vicious savages. The other tribes in the area would ally themselves with the Texans and the USA to fight them off. The word Comanche itself is not the name of that indian group. It comes from one of the local tribes and means something like "those who attack us unceasingly ". There is a youtube channel that covers old west history and has a lot of videos on the Comanche wars. It is called History at the OK Corral. If you are interested it is worth a look. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:23:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Originally Posted By leadnbrass: Been watching Grit TV and noticed the Comanche are shown as absolute savages. Any truth to this? Any good books on the subject? Did these shows have the Comanche chop the arms and legs off men and throw them into a fire? |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:24:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: byron2112]
[#13]
They were one with nature, hugged trees and lived in peace and friendship.
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:24:22 PM EDT
[#14]
As stated the Comanche were worse than people think. I also read that the tribes back east were worse than the Comanche. The difference being one is barely out of living memory and one was 300 years ago
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:25:05 PM EDT
[#15]
It is worth noting that the reason the Mexican government invited American settlers into Texas originally was to use them as a buffer between the Mexicans and the Comanche.
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:25:38 PM EDT
[#16]
Ever wonder about that old Western saying "saving the last bullet for yourself & your loved ones"...?
They were beyond mere "brutal" or "savage". |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:26:16 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:26:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Philmore]
[#18]
Empire of the Summer Moon is a very good book.
The Comanche were the original plains bad guys on horse back. They prompted the Texas Rangers and others to develop into horseback fighters like they were. Not horse cavalry that fought like infantry after dismounting. While the Sioux were formidable later on, the Comanche struck fear into both settlers and other tribes. They’d let the Cheyenne hang out some but were enemies to most others. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:26:42 PM EDT
[#19]
I have Comanche blood in me.
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:27:24 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aikibiker: Indian Depredation in Texas is a close to contemporary account of Comanche activities. In a word; yes, the Comanche were vicious savages. The other tribes in the area would ally themselves with the Texans and the USA to fight them off. The word Comanche itself is not the name of that indian group. It comes from one of the local tribes and means something like "those who attack us unceasingly ". There is a youtube channel that covers old west history and has a lot of videos on the Comanche wars. It is called History at the OK Corral. If you are interested it is worth a look. Apache translates directly as enemy. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:29:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Philmore: Empire of the Summer Moon is a very good book. The Comanche were the original plains bad guys in horse back. True False |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:30:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TLD05]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Horned_Toad: As stated the Comanche were worse than people think. I also read that the tribes back east were worse than the Comanche. The difference being one is barely out of living memory and one was 300 years ago IDK. The first Spanish that got stranded in Florida looking for gold didn't have issues with the tribes they encountered from Florida all the way around the gulf coast back to Mexico. They lived a hard life that the Spaniards couldn't handle but they were reportedly treated well. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:33:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JLH3]
[#23]
Before the Comanche arrived, the Spanish called the area from the middle of New Mexico to Texas the Apacharia. There were 7 major Apache bands.
After the Comanche arrived, that area became the Comacharia and there was 5 bands of Apache.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:33:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: M1Zeppelin]
[#24]
Running the risk of sounding politically incorrect. Native Americans AND the settlers could be real bastards to each other.
The Native Americans could just be more creative in their ways. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:33:57 PM EDT
[#25]
Comanche deserved to be eradicated in the 1800's. They were a blight on Texas.
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:35:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Philmore]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scalped: True False Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scalped: Originally Posted By Philmore: Empire of the Summer Moon is a very good book. The Comanche were the original plains bad guys in horse back. True False Who were? There’s evidence of horses in native culture prior to the Pueblo rebellion but there’s no solid history of who had what first. Some tribes used them as beasts of burden and some ate them. The Lakota say horses were part of their world before memory. Yet it’s hard to say the Comanche weren’t the earlier horse power. At least in the southern plains and up into the middle of the country. Who would you classify as the earlier horseback masters? This is fascinating stuff to me. Always looking to hear more! |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:36:00 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:38:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cwm1150: Comanche deserved to be eradicated in the 1800's. They were a blight on Texas.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:38:28 PM EDT
[#29]
How were they in relation to the Apache and Sioux? I need to read that book
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:38:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Horned_Toad: As stated the Comanche were worse than people think. I also read that the tribes back east were worse than the Comanche. The difference being one is barely out of living memory and one was 300 years ago i read somewhere that one of the eastern tribes, mohawks, hurons would flay their victims. would cut a strip of skin at the front or back and then pull the strip all the way to the bottom. skinned alive over a long period of time. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:39:54 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PhuzzyGnu: I have Comanche blood in me. Do you? |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:40:22 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Philmore: Who were? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Philmore: Originally Posted By Scalped: Originally Posted By Philmore: Empire of the Summer Moon is a very good book. The Comanche were the original plains bad guys in horse back. True False Who were? Considering the fine, fine example of the book mentioned ITT puts Comanches getting horses from the Spanish around the 1680s should make it clear to you that your statement is historically false and coincidentally excludes other outstanding tribe-like fighting groups like the Mongols of the earlier 1200s.. just for one example. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:42:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stumpy89: Have you read Empire of the Summer Moon? FPNI, Just finished the book a couple weeks ago. Great read. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:44:52 PM EDT
[#34]
 They're devils. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:45:31 PM EDT
[#35]
Comanche had centuries of mentorship by Cathodic Spaniards. Mercenary culture and lancer training went far to reign brutality on the Protestant heathens. The only tribe the Comanche are documented to have clearly feared were the Blackfeet. The Comanche mercenaries refused to continue the pursuit of Lewis and Clark in Montana as the Blackfeet ruled the headwaters of the Missouri. A tribe so savage that they still practiced ritualistic canabalism and spoke Algonquin after centuries of being cut off from their Great Lakes ancestors.
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:48:04 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TV175: Comanche had centuries of mentorship by Cathodic Spaniards. Mercenary culture and lancer training went far to reign brutality on the Protestant heathens. The only tribe the Comanche are documented to have clearly feared were the Blackfeet. The Comanche mercenaries refused to continue the pursuit of Lewis and Clark in Montana as the Blackfeet ruled the headwaters of the Missouri. A tribe so savage that they still practiced ritualistic canabalism and spoke Algonquin after centuries of being cut off from their Great Lakes ancestors. Tonkawan routinely dined on Comanche long pig. Those dudes hated each other A LOT more. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:48:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TurtlesAlltheWayDown]
[#37]
The idea that somehow Americans and tribes like Comanche could coexist is hilarious.
They were the mongols of America. No room on earth for cultures like that |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:55:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JDennis]
[#38]
IIRC
Comanche came from southern tribes like Aztecs. They were vicious, brutal, unrelenting. And then evolved to use their history and reputation to make deals that ludicrously benefited themselves. As for the Brutal, Unrelenting, just ask the Apaches... |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:56:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sixgunner45: They were worse than any movie depiction showed them to be ... way worse. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sixgunner45: Originally Posted By leadnbrass: Been watching Grit TV and noticed the Comanche are shown as absolute savages. Any truth to this? Any good books on the subject? They were worse than any movie depiction showed them to be ... way worse. Came to post this. The other tribes were not fans of them, to put it mildly. |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 10:00:10 PM EDT
[#40]
Tonkawas had a reputation for cannibalism but Comanche and smallpox put an end to them.
When the first Spanish were on the plains in the 1500s the Apache held most of the area that would become the Comanchera by the 1700s. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 10:03:37 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stumpy89: Have you read Empire of the Summer Moon? I was just gifted this book by a family member. They’re liberal so I figured it was some fairytale about peaceful natives. I was going to let it sit but I’ll check it out now. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 10:04:23 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scalped: Tonkawan routinely dined on Comanche long pig. Those dudes hated each other A LOT more. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scalped: Originally Posted By TV175: Comanche had centuries of mentorship by Cathodic Spaniards. Mercenary culture and lancer training went far to reign brutality on the Protestant heathens. The only tribe the Comanche are documented to have clearly feared were the Blackfeet. The Comanche mercenaries refused to continue the pursuit of Lewis and Clark in Montana as the Blackfeet ruled the headwaters of the Missouri. A tribe so savage that they still practiced ritualistic canabalism and spoke Algonquin after centuries of being cut off from their Great Lakes ancestors. Tonkawan routinely dined on Comanche long pig. Those dudes hated each other A LOT more. Oh, I am aware of enemies and continual conflict. A lecturer at Leavenworth gave a series about mercenary export cultures (Kurds, Nepalese, Comanche). I distinctly remember his research of the Spanish cavalry commander reports from the multiple capture/kill missions against the Louisiana Purchase expeditions. He particularly emphasized “feared” concerning the Blackfeet. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 10:06:36 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TV175: Oh, I am aware of enemies and continual conflict. A lecturer at Leavenworth gave a series about mercenary export cultures (Kurds, Nepalese, Comanche). I distinctly remember his research of the Spanish cavalry commander reports from the multiple capture/kill missions against the Louisiana Purchase expeditions. He particularly emphasized “feared” concerning the Blackfeet. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TV175: Originally Posted By Scalped: Originally Posted By TV175: Comanche had centuries of mentorship by Cathodic Spaniards. Mercenary culture and lancer training went far to reign brutality on the Protestant heathens. The only tribe the Comanche are documented to have clearly feared were the Blackfeet. The Comanche mercenaries refused to continue the pursuit of Lewis and Clark in Montana as the Blackfeet ruled the headwaters of the Missouri. A tribe so savage that they still practiced ritualistic canabalism and spoke Algonquin after centuries of being cut off from their Great Lakes ancestors. Tonkawan routinely dined on Comanche long pig. Those dudes hated each other A LOT more. Oh, I am aware of enemies and continual conflict. A lecturer at Leavenworth gave a series about mercenary export cultures (Kurds, Nepalese, Comanche). I distinctly remember his research of the Spanish cavalry commander reports from the multiple capture/kill missions against the Louisiana Purchase expeditions. He particularly emphasized “feared” concerning the Blackfeet. I would've enjoyed that lecture very much. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 10:06:57 PM EDT
[#44]
Don’t get captured. Wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end of an attack from any plains tribe with a muzzleloader. Also, don’t get captured.
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Posted: 5/15/2024 10:08:25 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scalped: Considering the fine, fine example of the book mentioned ITT puts Comanches getting horses from the Spanish around the 1680s should make it clear to you that your statement is historically false and coincidentally excludes other outstanding tribe-like fighting groups like the Mongols of the earlier 1200s.. just for one example. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scalped: Originally Posted By Philmore: Originally Posted By Scalped: Originally Posted By Philmore: Empire of the Summer Moon is a very good book. The Comanche were the original plains bad guys in horse back. True False Who were? Considering the fine, fine example of the book mentioned ITT puts Comanches getting horses from the Spanish around the 1680s should make it clear to you that your statement is historically false and coincidentally excludes other outstanding tribe-like fighting groups like the Mongols of the earlier 1200s.. just for one example. Go back and read my edited post. And mongols weren’t in new world or part of the discussion. Unless you consider them as migratory so they were in your eyes early settlers here? Info is welcome for discussion. There’s a lot of discussion about when horses “arrived” since early Equus species were largely gone prior to any introduction. And most introduction theory started with Spanish exploration inward. It’s all subject to speculation and interesting to look into. Getting horses from the Spaniards doesn’t clearly make anything false. The records of the early explorers record their interactions with multiple groups. How those groups handled horses as they came into possession of them. varied. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 10:11:29 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Philmore: Go back and read my edited post. And mongols weren’t in new world or part of the discussion. Unless you consider them as migratory so they were in your eyes early settlers here? Info is welcome for discussion. There’s a lot of discussion about when horses “arrived” since early Equus species were largely gone prior to any introduction. And most introduction theory started with Spanish exploration inward. It’s all subject to speculation and interesting to look into. Getting horses from the Spaniards doesn’t clearly make anything false. The records of the early explorers record their interactions with multiple groups. How those groups handled horses as they came into possession of them. varied. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Philmore: Originally Posted By Scalped: Originally Posted By Philmore: Originally Posted By Scalped: Originally Posted By Philmore: Empire of the Summer Moon is a very good book. The Comanche were the original plains bad guys in horse back. True False Who were? Considering the fine, fine example of the book mentioned ITT puts Comanches getting horses from the Spanish around the 1680s should make it clear to you that your statement is historically false and coincidentally excludes other outstanding tribe-like fighting groups like the Mongols of the earlier 1200s.. just for one example. Go back and read my edited post. And mongols weren’t in new world or part of the discussion. Unless you consider them as migratory so they were in your eyes early settlers here? Info is welcome for discussion. There’s a lot of discussion about when horses “arrived” since early Equus species were largely gone prior to any introduction. And most introduction theory started with Spanish exploration inward. It’s all subject to speculation and interesting to look into. Getting horses from the Spaniards doesn’t clearly make anything false. The records of the early explorers record their interactions with multiple groups. How those groups handled horses as they came into possession of them. varied. You should've been more descriptive. Because "plains" aren't exclusive to North America. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 10:14:39 PM EDT
[#47]
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AL, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 10:16:21 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stumpy89: Have you read Empire of the Summer Moon? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 10:16:29 PM EDT
[#49]
Adk the other tribes from their area. Oh you can't cause they wiped most out.
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Posted: 5/15/2024 10:17:54 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scalped: You should've been more descriptive. Because "plains" aren't exclusive to North America. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scalped: Originally Posted By Philmore: Originally Posted By Scalped: Originally Posted By Philmore: Originally Posted By Scalped: Originally Posted By Philmore: Empire of the Summer Moon is a very good book. The Comanche were the original plains bad guys in horse back. True False Who were? Considering the fine, fine example of the book mentioned ITT puts Comanches getting horses from the Spanish around the 1680s should make it clear to you that your statement is historically false and coincidentally excludes other outstanding tribe-like fighting groups like the Mongols of the earlier 1200s.. just for one example. Go back and read my edited post. And mongols weren’t in new world or part of the discussion. Unless you consider them as migratory so they were in your eyes early settlers here? Info is welcome for discussion. There’s a lot of discussion about when horses “arrived” since early Equus species were largely gone prior to any introduction. And most introduction theory started with Spanish exploration inward. It’s all subject to speculation and interesting to look into. Getting horses from the Spaniards doesn’t clearly make anything false. The records of the early explorers record their interactions with multiple groups. How those groups handled horses as they came into possession of them. varied. You should've been more descriptive. Because "plains" aren't exclusive to North America. He said plain not steppe 
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