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Posted: 4/25/2024 6:52:02 PM EDT
The Supreme Court wrestled with major questions about the growing issue of homelessness on Monday as it considered whether cities can punish people for sleeping outside when shelter space is lacking.
It's the most significant case before the high court in decades on the issue, and comes as record numbers of people are without a permanent place to live in the United States. The case started in the rural Oregon town of Grants Pass, which began fining people $295 for sleeping outside as the cost of housing escalated and tents sprung up in the city's public parks. The San Francisco-based U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals struck down the law under its holding that banning camping in places without enough shelter beds amounts to cruel and unusual punishment. The justices appeared to be leaning toward a narrow ruling in the case after hearing arguments that showed the stark terms of the debate over homelessness in Western states like California, which is home to one-third of the country's homeless population. TENTERS OF THE WORLD UNITE |
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USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 6:55:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Ya can't ticket me for parking on the street and then look the other way while an army of druggies, vagrants, and runaways exploiting a soft policies sets up a tent city on the sidewalk. Ya just can't. Hey, wouldn't ya know that when you make it easy to be a bum in the city you get....more bums!
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Posted: 4/25/2024 6:56:14 PM EDT
[#2]
That $295 fine will definitely motivate a homeless person to stop being homeless
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AK, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 6:58:21 PM EDT
[#3]
For those living in their cars...
 
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Posted: 4/25/2024 6:58:23 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HRoark87: That $295 fine will definitely motivate a homeless person to stop being homeless  Motivation |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:06:37 PM EDT
[#5]
So, no more camping in the woods?
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:11:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DragoMuseveni]
[#6]
Make the Vagrancy Act great again
The Vagabonds Act 1547 (1 Edw. 6. c. 3), also known as the Vagrancy Act 1547, was a statute passed in England by King Edward VI and his Lord Protector, Edward Seymour.[1] It provided that vagabonds could be enslaved for two years and continued weekly parish collections for the poor.[2] The enslaved vagabonds were to be fed bread and water or small drink and were allowed to be worked by beating, chaining, or other methods the master may choose. Vagabond slaves were allowed to be bought and sold just as other slaves. Also, should no private man want the vagabond slave, the slave was to be sent to their town of birth and be forced to work as a slave for that community.[3] Vagabond children could be claimed as "apprentices" and be held as such until the age of 24 if a boy, or the age of 20 if a girl. Should they attempt to escape this apprenticeship, they were subject to enslavement for the remainder of the apprenticeship. 
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:11:17 PM EDT
[#7]
I used to sleep in my car quite often when I was young and single. I’d work double shifts for the OT and caught a few ZZZs before I had to go back. shit/shower/shave in the employee locker room.
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:15:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bacon_Grease: For those living in their cars... https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/8409318b-c4f7-4b2f-a000-77bda980a080.c61717e70e097aaf276f2918ea70016d.jpeg An Asian in an Asian. 
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:16:57 PM EDT
[#9]
You city folk have strange problems.
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:18:08 PM EDT
[#10]
Where are the homeless supposed to go?
Serious question, no looking for wild response. If you’re homeless , you don’t have anywhere to go right? |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:19:48 PM EDT
[#11]
How come we don’t hear the term “homeless crisis” like we did in the 1980’s?
Oh I think I know why. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:24:43 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 13FoxVet: Where are the homeless supposed to go? Serious question, no looking for wild response. If you’re homeless , you don’t have anywhere to go right? They are supposed to clean up their act, get a job, and be productive. I’m more of a fan of what Vlad the impaler did to his homeless. Since they are (and were) a plague to society he Burned them alive Get your sh*t together or die. Seems like fear is still the ultimate motivator. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:30:21 PM EDT
[#13]
Bring back the CCC, work outdoors, 3 hits and a cot, they can work off the $295 fine.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:31:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Pallas]
[#14]
Wear decent clothes, walk out of a bar and pass out on a park bench or sidewalk and see how fast you get “attention” or hooked up vs a homeless person.
Local government/LE want nothing to do with the homeless, so they just let it slide… Some affluent communities don’t, some do. Before the current round of money for UKR. With what we had spent, we could have spent $65k per estimated homeless person. You get a choice; Get clean, job training, etc -or- you are taken off the street. There it is. Few of the homeless want help. When there is a hurricane here, they won’t go to a shelter… You have to be sober and you cannot cone and go as you please, you leave and you can’t come back. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:32:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By olivers_AR: Bring back the CCC, work outdoors, 3 hits and a cot, they can work off the $295 fine. If it was only 3 hits we wouldn't have such a big homeless problem. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:33:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 13FoxVet: Where are the homeless supposed to go? Serious question, no looking for wild response. If you’re homeless , you don’t have anywhere to go right? The majority of chronic homeless are so because of addiction. They refuse to go to established shelters because they are not allowed to shoot up there. They could be housed if they modified their behavior. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:33:57 PM EDT
[#17]
It will be used to target campers on public land. Not homeless drug addicts in blue cities.
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OR, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:35:43 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GlockPride: So, no more camping in the woods? Do you normally camp in the woods in a city park? |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:38:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By olivers_AR: Bring back the CCC, work outdoors, 3 hits and a cot, they can work off the $295 fine. Hits? Like meth? I guess that would improve their motivation to work. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:44:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bravo_Six: Hits? Like meth? I guess that would improve their motivation to work.
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:48:38 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HRoark87: That $295 fine will definitely motivate a homeless person to stop being homeless It’s like nobody understands a nightstick’s purpose anymore |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 9:32:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mousehunter]
[#22]
It is an interesting issue. Is a city required to provide a place to sleep for the people who live in it. If the provided sleeping area is not up to the person's requirements, can they sleep in a different public place. Is the right to a place to sleep ingrained in the Constitution.
If the problem is sleeping at night - would it be worse if they slept during the day and broke other laws at night? --- A fine is meaningless to a person who does not have an address or a job. The cities know they can not collect. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 9:49:27 PM EDT
[#23]
"I'm not sleeping. I'm just resting my eyes."
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:03:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Aikibiker]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 13FoxVet: Where are the homeless supposed to go? Serious question, no looking for wild response. If you’re homeless , you don’t have anywhere to go right? It seems you do not know very much about the homeless, so let me clue you in. Most of them are homeless because they are drug/alcoholic using scum whose families kicked them out because they stole everything that wasn't nailed down to sell for drug money and then committed acts of violence while high. The rest are either legit crazy that should be in an asylum, or actually want to live that kind of life because they do not want to follow any of society's rules. The latter cross over with the substance abusers to the point it is hard to tell the difference and it is a kind of chicken or the egg thing. I feel some sympathy for the actual crazy ones. I have dealt with thousands of homeless due to work. I can count on my fingers the number that were just decent poor people down on their luck. Let it sink in they are homeless because of their own choices. Reopen the asylums for the crazies and then drive the rest into the wilderness. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:05:00 PM EDT
[#25]
My local city is in talks about passing this ban.
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:07:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 13FoxVet: Where are the homeless supposed to go? Serious question, no looking for wild response. If you’re homeless , you don’t have anywhere to go right? Not necessarily. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:25:03 PM EDT
[#27]
I do not have the right to take public property for my dwelling space, be it the street, sidewalk or city park.
If a city/county wants to be nice and give dwelling space away, that's their business, but you don't have an inherent 'right' to have free housing. Sleeping in cars is a bit different, assuming the car is parked legally. I think it's a really bad idea, and dangerous, but you are in your own legal space. Now if the city says 'No Parking after 11pm', then you can't park/sleep there. When the Constitution was passed, they had bums. They didn't let them sleep on the steps of Constitution Hall or the middle of streets then, either. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:27:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pallas: Before the current round of money for UKR. With what we had spent, we could have spent $65k per estimated homeless person. You get a choice; Get clean, job training, etc -or- you are taken off the street. There it is. Maybe we should send the homeless to Ukraine. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:38:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boomer: Maybe we should send the homeless to Ukraine. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boomer: Originally Posted By Pallas: Before the current round of money for UKR. With what we had spent, we could have spent $65k per estimated homeless person. You get a choice; Get clean, job training, etc -or- you are taken off the street. There it is. Maybe we should send the homeless to Ukraine. It's beyond time for welfare islands. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 11:23:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 13FoxVet: Where are the homeless supposed to go? Serious question, no looking for wild response. If you're homeless , you don't have anywhere to go right? |
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USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 11:27:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Look up cost of living. How old are you?
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Posted: 4/25/2024 11:37:54 PM EDT
[#32]
Many of them could be in a shelter if they wanted to, except shelters prohibit drug and alcohol use.
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Posted: 4/25/2024 11:42:22 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 13FoxVet: Where are the homeless supposed to go? Serious question, no looking for wild response. If you’re homeless , you don’t have anywhere to go right? Thats the rub! Homelessness should not be a crime. As for where do they go to sleep, I guess anywhere the residents are not complaining about it. If we were a civilized country as we say we are, being homeless would be an exception. Instead, we reward begging and getting handouts, instead of helping people learn to take care of themselves. Over taxation, over regulation, and WAY too much Gov't intervention on personal property is the cause. Example: Why the FUCK do you need a permit to build a deck in your backyard? Permits and permission for fucking EVERYTHING. I can see a permit to tap into the grid, and even if you are renting out to others, kind of makes some sense. I can also see where separating true commercial from residential. Garage .biz should be different (without a danger to the public) Gov created this fucking mess |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 11:42:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Damn, where else am I supposed to set up mah blue harbor freight tarp?
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Posted: 4/25/2024 11:44:17 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HRoark87: That $295 fine will definitely motivate a homeless person to stop being homeless It will cut into their booze and drug fund. That Wil get their attention. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 11:44:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By maslin02: Do you normally camp in the woods in a city park? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By maslin02: Originally Posted By GlockPride: So, no more camping in the woods? Do you normally camp in the woods in a city park? Camping in city parks is legal in a lot of places   Attached File |
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USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 12:00:02 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 13FoxVet: Where are the homeless supposed to go? Serious question, no looking for wild response. If you’re homeless , you don’t have anywhere to go right? They can go anywhere they want, just not here. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 12:14:21 AM EDT
[#38]
Previous posters have nailed it. The VAST majority of "homeless" are addicted and/or mentally ill. We used to have asylums for such people but the ACLU said that was mean so now we have the "homeless" pissing and shitting on the sidewalk and often dying there.
The obvious answer is obvious - open the asylums again. If they dry out or get sane, they can leave. If not, then not. It won't be cheap but it's far better than what we have now. It won't happen, though, because blue people in blue cities won't let it happen. So, let the blue cities be blue, and let sane people send the "homeless" to the blue cities. I call that a Win-Win. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 12:21:19 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lou_Daks: Previous posters have nailed it. The VAST majority of "homeless" are addicted and/or mentally ill. We used to have asylums for such people but the ACLU said that was mean so now we have the "homeless" pissing and shitting on the sidewalk and often dying there. The obvious answer is obvious - open the asylums again. If they dry out or get sane, they can leave. If not, then not. It won't be cheap but it's far better than what we have now. It won't happen, though, because blue people in blue cities won't let it happen. So, let the blue cities be blue, and let sane people send the "homeless" to the blue cities. I call that a Win-Win. I don’t think the asylums are coming back. Minimum security prison with drug rehab (required) and vocational training (optional) might be achievable. Sme druggies will get better, some will sort themselves out as real problems. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 12:22:16 AM EDT
[#40]
Pottinger v. Miami and Jones v. Los Angeles need to be overturned. They are how we got to not enforcing laws on homeless for life sustaining issues and having to keep all of their shit if and when they are arrested for something.
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Posted: 4/26/2024 12:23:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Lou_Daks]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Grendelsbane: I don’t think the asylums are coming back. Minimum security prison with drug rehab (required) and vocational training (optional) might be achievable. Sme druggies will get better, some will sort themselves out as real problems. I agree, I used "asylum" as a catch-all for what you describe. I didn't mean to imply they all get straight jackets. They go in and sort themselves out or not. Most will not IMO, so they stay inside. |
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CHN
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Posted: 4/26/2024 12:54:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ServusVeritatis: It will be used to target campers on public land. Not homeless drug addicts in blue cities. And you know this how? |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 2:17:19 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By olivers_AR: Bring back the CCC, work outdoors, 3 hits and a cot, they can work off the $295 fine. This is the way. We had several relatives who were in the CCC before WW2. But, it's a different USA today. So probably not gonna happen. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 2:43:36 AM EDT
[#44]
It's a well kept, and yet utterly open secret:
 Compare when the issues started to increase, and the years that incarceration started to decline. Where did all those people go? Many went home, but hundreds of thousands didn't have a home in the first place - they went right back onto the street, and have stayed there thanks to liberal policies that make holding and sentencing people for major criminal acts nearly impossible. Empty every jail and prison, and your homeless population will skyrocket. This isn't quantum physics, but the fact that you'll *never* see the correlation even hinted at in any mainstream media says everything about the motives behind the actions. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 3:11:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: mousehunter]
[#45]
There can be a LOT of reasons for being homeless. I used to joke, Eskimos have 100 words for homeless, Austin had 50 words for homeless. The old school homeless in Austin were either people who decided to check out of society - or drugs. But even when I was in Austin, there was a growing group that was acting like homeless because it was a social scene. It was cool. Location is also important - you need to be homeless in a cool place. I have known a couple of 20 something kids that did it - they thought it was cool. They did not need to be homeless, they decided to be homeless. I also knew a 40 year old man who was "homeless", but he was different. He chose it because it fit his lifestyle - it worked for him. He was an Olympic class athlete and a Ken. He slept in his vehicle most of the time, so he could be close to his training facilities (he trained hours a day, most every day he could - he really wanted to be on the US Olympic team) - but he had a notebook of women who would welcome him in any time he called (mostly when the weather was rough).
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Posted: 4/26/2024 3:17:05 AM EDT
[#46]
If they want a place to sleep, get a job and rent or buy a place. The bedroom and bathroom are free.
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Posted: 4/26/2024 3:24:11 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 13FoxVet: Where are the homeless supposed to go? Serious question, no looking for wild response. If you’re homeless , you don’t have anywhere to go right? The answer to your question is simple, stop being homeless. If they have addictions, do what we used to do, put them in mental facilities until cleaned up. It wasn't pretty but it worked until some idiots decided more chaos was a good way to gain power. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 3:25:53 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By olivers_AR: Bring back the CCC, work outdoors, 3 hits and a cot, they can work off the $295 fine. Now you're catching on. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 3:27:59 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mousehunter: It is an interesting issue. Is a city required to provide a place to sleep for the people who live in it. If the provided sleeping area is not up to the person's requirements, can they sleep in a different public place. Is the right to a place to sleep ingrained in the Constitution. If the problem is sleeping at night - would it be worse if they slept during the day and broke other laws at night? --- A fine is meaningless to a person who does not have an address or a job. The cities know they can not collect. Are they really considered residents or nomads passing through? |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 3:30:58 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 13FoxVet: Where are the homeless supposed to go? Serious question, no looking for wild response. If you’re homeless , you don’t have anywhere to go right? They’ll force landlords to house them. Always been the plan. You own over a certain number of units and they’ll pass legislation that you’re required to offer a certain % of units as HUD and low income. |
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