FN Five-Seven/ SS192HP PISTOL makes swiss cheese of Level 2 vest today - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - FN Five-Seven/ SS192HP PISTOL makes swiss cheese of Level 2 vest today (Page 2 of 8)

Posted: 9/10/2004 1:40:26 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Has anyone mentioned to you guys that the 7.62x25mm as used in the Tokerov pistol will defeat a level IIIa Kevlar vest. Chuck Karwan in "Combat Handguns" did the test. Regular velocity ammo cut thru a IIIa like it was warm butter. This IS NOT the hotter Czech. loading, it's the standard 86gr/1450fps load for the Tokerov TT-33 pistol. You can also buy a CZ-52 for about $100 bucks and use the hotter load which will make it even more effective at cutting thru kevlar. I still plan on getting a 5.7x28mm as soon as the AWB sunsets and FN brings out the USG model with 20rnd. mags. I think every "citizen" should have a "kevlar cutter" just in case the gun grabbers start kickin' doors in. NO, I'm not anti-LEO but I am very pro-2nd.Amend. hr

word.

Posted: 9/9/2004 11:01:21 PM EDT

[#2]

Geez guys..I swear If I killed an elephant with the dang thing somebody would say it was unimpressive. Im only trying to pass on knowledge here(HELLO, McFLY!!!whack whack wack)
I killed a vest that cost me 800.00 four years ago...I dont see anybody else doing this to futher the knowledge base on here. What I found out shocked me..I didnt think it would do this either and now we all know. base line was that a level 2 (not 2A) was zero protection from this and would have killed the shit out of the guy wearing it...unimpressive or not.

Outstanding pics and post.

Posted: 9/8/2004 11:46:16 PM EDT

[#3]

Guys 7.62x25 does have penetration due to small cross section and reasonably high velocity, just like 7.63 mauser...which was also known to be a penetrator....what it dont have is "stopping" power in the FMJ.......as much as folks rag on .30M1 Carbine with FMJ not being a stopper...this is the same diameter bullet weighing 86gr to the M1's 110gr and doing 1600fps(ish) to the carbines 1980fps. you have to have an expanding bullet to increase energy transfer in the 7.62 (it makes night and day performance difference in .30M1) If you want one by all means buy it as a plinker, but no new stuff is forthcoming as the commies have tossed this one to the dustbin of history. So please dont think you have found a sleeper do all end all......its capabilities good and bad are well noted in the history books and everyone aside from american civilian shooters who can get them dirt cheap has moved on to other things.

Posted: 9/9/2004 4:43:48 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Guys 7.62x25 does have penetration due to small cross section and reasonably high velocity, just like 7.63 mauser...which was also known to be a penetrator....what it dont have is "stopping" power in the FMJ.......as much as folks rag on .30M1 Carbine with FMJ not being a stopper...this is the same diameter bullet weighing 86gr to the M1's 110gr and doing 1600fps(ish) to the carbines 1980fps. you have to have an expanding bullet to increase energy transfer in the 7.62 (it makes night and day performance difference in .30M1) If you want one by all means buy it as a plinker, but no new stuff is forthcoming as the commies have tossed this one to the dustbin of history. So please dont think you have found a sleeper do all end all......its capabilities good and bad are well noted in the history books and everyone aside from american civilian shooters who can get them dirt cheap has moved on to other things.

Theres a small cult following to the CZ-52 which continues to develop products for it. One example is Makarov.com which offers new replacement parts as well as 9mm conversion barrels. Alot of handloaders tinker with different load outs as well.
I will agree that its ability to penetrate doesnt lend well to knockdown power. Simply solution there is to buy hollowpoint rounds. Available at reedsammo.com, actually reedsammo carries all kinds of ammo for the CZ and is (was?) working on a .22 Reed Express barrel as well.

But I will agree, the gun isnt a popular one by any stretch anymore. I bought one for the penetration abilities as I could flip flop FMJ's and HP's, giving me pretty much assured protection against whatever decided to wander through my door. It has quirks, it needs a bit of TLC. They rather remind me of what I hear about Cetme's, some run fantastic and some need a bit of tinkering (Nothing to the extent a Cetme does though!). But I also plan on getting a 57 as its a current model production weapon, and I shouldnt have to worry about the little things I do with the CZ (Such as a barrel thats a touch too big)

Posted: 9/9/2004 6:57:53 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Hirtenberger 9mm +P+ that was made for the German police(GSG9 unit)
[...]sometimes you may find an odd box at a gun show.

It is what the Austrian police (except special forces) uses in their Glock17
(no hollowpoints!!

) and it is quite common here in Austria. Strange
that they don't export it to the US any more. I don't think it is able to
penetrate kevlar vests.

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:28:25 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Why is this post constantly reminding me of the PPSh and Tokarev?

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Come to think of it… A P90 in 7.62x25! shweet

Russia has/had a small full auto pistol with a folding buttstock that shoots 7.62x25 dont they? I think the only problem with it was its accuracy and knockdown power, about on par with a Tec-9 with less stopping power than a 9mm round.

The 7.62 is fairly accurate and has energy that puts it right around a .357. It also has excellent penetration, and if you think your going against a very hardened target you can hand load sabots with .22 caliber bullets to give you even more oomph at the business end. Its a very good round, its just not available in many guns. I picked up a CZ-52 for the very reasons listed. Excellent penetration and excellent stopping power in a round thats roughly the physical size of the 9x19mm.

Posted: 9/8/2004 7:14:27 PM EDT

[#7]

I'm not gonna read 8 pages, but I will post what I have done with the 5.7.

Earlier this year, we tested the 5.7 IOM on a LIIA test panel with a ballistic dummy (rated to 44 mag) behind it, with a cardboard IPSC target behind it to find the exit.

The 5.7 went through the vest, yawed and tumbled in the dummy, and blew out a quarter sized piece of the IPSC target down and left from the entry hole.

Pretty impressive.

Posted: 9/8/2004 7:41:41 PM EDT

[#8]

Not to be a smartass, but how many LEOs run across a gang banger thug with an $800 pistol carried Mexican syle in his pants on a daily basis?

I really don't think these guys are studing ballistics or they would all be packing CZ-52s. Can you think of a better handgun to use when you have to consider penetrating car bodies and vests?

Posted: 9/8/2004 8:17:28 PM EDT

[#9]

First of all, I like high velocity pistol rounds. Personal interest.

Now, is there any 7.62x25mm new pistols around? No ComBloc relic. I want a modern gun in this caliber. Why 5.7 when we got this? Don't get me wrong, I want to get a 5.7, preferably a P90 but the 7.62 seems a better choice since it can behave depending on what you load on it like a normal HP round or AP round.

In any case... any of you know where to get 7.62 in a modern handgun? I'll settle for a conversion I guess.

Posted: 9/6/2004 7:48:29 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Be sure and pick up the sept.6 issue of shotgun news thats on the shelves now...it has a write up on the P90/FN57 also alludes to FN is working on a civy P90(a 16"barrel semi auto carbine P90) for the U.S. market as well as a ultra short action bolt gun in5.7x28mm

Seems FN wants to keep my money tied up with them, guess Ill have to get a P90 and a bolt gun for backyard critters. Hope they decide to make cheaper ammo too.

This would be way-cool but they would have to make it in the US (I think). I live in MA and since there are no preban magazines I could not be able to have one unless I modified the magazines to hold 10 rounds. I could put blocks in them and it would need a muzzle brake rather than a flash suppressor. Man these laws are gay.

Posted: 9/1/2004 7:48:31 AM EDT

[#11]

Winston, they are darn good shooters, the only problem you might have is if you have small hands..if a Beretta 92 feels ok then it will work. But even so, the recoil is so mild its not going to be a real big detriment to your ability to shoot it. It double taps like nothing else..short of a comped race gun.

Posted: 8/31/2004 7:35:36 PM EDT

[#12]

well the SFS is installed on a MKIII, and you can with SFS..carry cocked and locked like regular, or chamber a round(hammer will be in the cocked position) push hammer forward to the quarter cock notch, and that automatically ingages the safety and locks the slide. when you push the safety down, the hammer flys back to the cocked position and is ready to fire. The Daewoo DP51 issued to the south Korean army works in the same manner. My pistol is the standard MKIII....the SFS parts can be added and the "Cylinder&slide shop" does carry the kit/install. here is a pic of the other side of my pistol. www.cylinder-slide.com/sfs.shtml they have SFS Kits for M1911's as well

Posted: 8/31/2004 7:39:06 PM EDT

[#13]

... I need to get one soon!

Posted: 8/31/2004 4:22:33 PM EDT

[#14]

Whats the difference between the one you bought and a HiPower SFS?

Posted: 8/31/2004 3:41:06 AM EDT

[#15]

I allready own a .45, and I had recently traded my walther P99...so I was out of the 9mm game and have a bunch of 9 ammo sitting around. Havent had a Hi-power in 20 years so it was time to try the "new model" out(new/updated compared to the Inglis I had)

Posted: 8/30/2004 5:16:41 PM EDT

[#16]

Nice looking gun, Im sure it will make you happy. Only problem I see with owning a BHP is that they arent chambered for .45 ACP, Id buy one but that means spending more money on dies, so I stick to just one size (not counting 5.7x28 and my .454 Casull.)

Posted: 8/30/2004 11:24:16 AM EDT

[#17]

sorry , double post for some reason

Posted: 8/30/2004 11:29:17 AM EDT

[#18]

well, looks like I've adopted another FN Herstal pistol :) I won a gunbroker.com auction for a FN MK III SA /9mm /matte at a good price(410.00) so I can test the hertenberger rounds on the vest panel.

Posted: 8/26/2004 7:36:19 AM EDT

[#19]

Actually the tip is lead. We had some 1/8" diamond plate steel that this ammo made holes in without any problems. We tried the 115 gr. FMJ 9mm and it would just dent the steel. Not really sure how it is made up but it does go through things other cannot.

Posted: 8/26/2004 8:52:30 AM EDT

[#20]

Might be worth cutting one down the middle to see whats inside.

Posted: 8/25/2004 3:34:20 PM EDT

[#21]

It looks like a jacketed lead nose 9mm with a more pronounced point. Is that actually steel I see instead of lead? It would make one of those bobcat arms MP5 knockoffs worth buying if I could afford some of those bullets.

Posted: 8/25/2004 1:48:13 PM EDT

[#22]

p99guy,

I keep a 17rd. magazine full of the Hirtenberger in case I run into some "Smash and Grab" bandits here. I plan to ventilate their get away vehicle. Always good to have. IMO

Posted: 8/25/2004 3:14:10 AM EDT

[#23]

No, not handloads...Hirtenberger 9mm +P+ that was made for the German police(GSG9 unit) and it was considered to be quite penetrative...when we could find it 10 years ago it was 25.00 a box.
its just about a collectors cartridge now. sometimes you may find an odd box at a gun show.

Posted: 8/24/2004 5:57:47 PM EDT

[#24]

Hi Mike!
He passed 3 rounds of the Hirtenburger "anti terrorist" rounds to try.....Havent been out(going to be about two weeks till the range again) since . I can bring the vest panel by cheaper than dirt and have Henry pitch it to you to test yourself if you want to do that. if I recall that had a 100gr bullet at 1500 fps.....it stands a good chance of stopping it.

Posted: 8/24/2004 7:34:18 PM EDT

[#25]

These handloads? PM me some specs, what powder, bullet, and how much powder...you know the good stuff...

Posted: 8/24/2004 12:58:17 PM EDT

[#26]

p99guy,

I gave Henry a few rounds to try on that vest. Just wondering if it has any ventilating value like I think it does? Have you tried them yet?

Posted: 8/22/2004 10:10:58 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Regardless of its killing potential, it shares the same round as the P90 (a beretta M9 does not share the same round as a M4/M16 obviously), it is lighter than most 9mm pistols loaded, more accurate, has a better trigger, and easier to shoot than just about any military sidearm chambered in 9mm.

Reiterating - it may SUCK at actually stopping the bad guys, but it's great otherwise. Did I miss anything?

Yes.
5.7mm wound is better than no wound when your attacker is wearing body armor.

Posted: 8/20/2004 6:12:32 PM EDT

[#28]

Regarding the Bladetech Holster, apparently they make it for the version without the rail. With any luck they will make one soon. I have the one with a Rail. (IOM)

I find it interesting that the people who disregard this round look at other peoples post which agree with them and do not look at your Photos. I have to say that I have shot quite a few wet phone books and newspapers over the years and the damage from this round looks about as bad as any 9mm, .357 sig or. 45.

I wonder which would stop a fight quicker? Blunt trauma from a 9mm, .40, .357, .45 impacting on a bad guys BP vest OR a 5.7 which has actually gone through the vest and bad guys lung! Yes it is kind of specialized but when you need a table saw you don't need a drill press. I bet as time goes by more of these will show up in use with the Police and it will perform about the same as any handgun round. It may perform better as You actually have to hit you target for the bullet to have effect. Prehaps with Lower recoil, the cops hit ratios will go up!

I Know, not all cops are bad shots!!

I will get my ammo next week and With any luck I may be able to come up with a IIIA vest to poke holes in. I will post my results. I think the IIIA is rated higher than a IIA>

Dan

Posted: 8/20/2004 6:23:03 PM EDT

[#29]

R71, I have an IOM as well...(there are no 57's without a rail)..and I have a blade tech holster. who ever you are talking to is giving you bad info. vests go in order L1(old nylon M1952 flak jackets and such) IIA, II, IIIA,III, and then IV(rifle)
To a degree you are correct, blunt trauma alone will not bring a quick resolution to hostilities from normal service pistol type bullets....North Hollywood shoot out...that one BG took over 23 hits to the soft body armor as an example. things that make you bleed and put holes in your brain though a kevlar helmet...or heart through a vest make it hard to go to work the next day however.
here is a pic of the blade tech for my M1911 and my 57 IOM

Posted: 8/19/2004 7:54:10 PM EDT

[#30]

For the holster question, if you like leather...

If you like what you see, contact C Rusty Sherrick for info, gotta warn you, it aint cheap.

Posted: 8/19/2004 5:05:24 PM EDT

[#31]

Glad you thought the article was decent......
neat piece, I look forward to playing with a Five-seveN some more.
Thanks for taking the time to do the testing, I'm sure it's appreciated by all.

Posted: 8/19/2004 5:08:07 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
It's a very interesting round for sure. Limited uses, but if it has low recoil, it would be fun to shoot.

Hmmmm. Limited use? Low recoil? A .22 would do the job. Cheaper than 5.7x28 as well.

Posted: 8/19/2004 5:33:18 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Be sure and pick up the sept.6 issue of shotgun news thats on the shelves now...it has a write up on the P90/FN57 also alludes to FN is working on a civy P90(a 16"barrel semi auto carbine P90) for the U.S. market as well as a ultra short action bolt gun in5.7x28mm

Drooooooooool.

I'd pay _alot_ for one of those...

Posted: 8/19/2004 5:40:51 PM EDT

[#34]

lol, I see Stalin hasnt got around to "purging" some folks yet.......so much negativity maaan! Just like I say about Hi Point pistols(i hate them..burn the factory)...If you dont like them stay out of the Hi Point posts ,it just makes folks miserable for no good reason. Trolling and posting negitive stuff constantly on a subject you care nothing about just shows your bored(and passive agressive).
those of us that want to own 5.7mm simply will (its not like its the only thing we have,You and I probably own some of the same stuff no doubt....nor we are unrealistic about it) You have took a dump in our yard many times over this...the smell is duly and truly noted, and our feelings on this subject are not going to change anymore than your's are. If you want to start your own thread "I hate 5.7" please do do. But have some measure of respect , as I and (we)dont do this to your threads. There are only so many times you can post "Use a .22LR instead" before it gets repititious.

Gunwritr..thanks for the kind words :) Anything else you can add to the subject, we would love to hear from you as well. Keep up the good work.

Cynic... Looking forward to seeing one myself.

Posted: 8/19/2004 10:37:48 AM EDT

[#35]

So I bought a Five Seven. I like the way it feels, I have two HK USP's, a 45 full size and 357 SIG compact. To me the grip feels like my .45 only thinner. I like the adjustable sights. I have some ammo on order and hopefully I will be shooting this thing next week. I have a Cronograph so it will be interesting to see what the real world velocity is. I do not think that this round is an under performer as some would say and it is not the best either.
Who has a Holster? I emailed both Fobus and Bladetech, and they don't make them. Bladetech must be getting calls about it becuase they referred to a phone call that they received. Maybe if we flood them with e-mail they will get on it! I like the Kydex and prefer a paddle type holster.

A semi auto P90 would be a neat companion gun. Kind of like a modern day Colt/Winchester thing.

I am not holding my breath on the AWB sunset though. When the congress gets back they will be under pressure to get the homeland security stuff going. It would be just like them to sneak something through attached to a Homeland sec. bill. You just can't trust those people once they have been in DC for a while!

Sixgunner.com has a post going over there with a link to more pictures. 5.7X28 revisited.

http://forums.sixgunner.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10968

Dan

Posted: 8/19/2004 11:03:27 AM EDT

[#36]

R71 congrats on the 57.....Blade tech does make holsters for the 57 as I happen to have one! I have the kydex IWB that costs 59.95. when you go to their site and into the holster selection for IWB's , open the weapons list and its near the bottom(not in alphabetical order) they make a double mag pouch as well. Haven t looked at the paddle types.

Posted: 8/19/2004 1:21:28 PM EDT

[#37]

It's a very interesting round for sure. Limited uses, but if it has low recoil, it would be fun to shoot.

Posted: 8/18/2004 11:09:34 PM EDT

[#38]

Thanks FatBoy :)
Nf...that issue tests the full auto P90....and only mentions in the last couple of paragraphs that a civy P90 is being developed . but still a decent article

Posted: 8/18/2004 7:01:35 PM EDT

[#39]

Im gonna pick up that shotgun news tomorrow at work, I wanna read more about the civy P90. Should be out at a good time, no more AWB so 50 rounders should flow freely.

Posted: 8/18/2004 7:40:21 PM EDT

[#40]

How did you "go through the old posts" and find a post from last November? I don't know of any way to browse threads that are more than 90 days old.

AIMLESS

There is always a way to find old posts... One from random, last posted 7/18/03
OLD POSTS.

Here is how "we" looked on Jan 9, 98

Oh, p99guy thanks for the info.

FB

Posted: 8/18/2004 10:40:41 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Has anyone mentioned to you guys that the 7.62x25mm as used in the Tokerov pistol will defeat a level IIIa Kevlar vest. Chuck Karwan in "Combat Handguns" did the test. Regular velocity ammo cut thru a IIIa like it was warm butter. This IS NOT the hotter Czech. loading, it's the standard 86gr/1450fps load for the Tokerov TT-33 pistol. You can also buy a CZ-52 for about $100 bucks and use the hotter load which will make it even more effective at cutting thru kevlar. I still plan on getting a 5.7x28mm as soon as the AWB sunsets and FN brings out the USG model with 20rnd. mags. I think every "citizen" should have a "kevlar cutter" just in case the gun grabbers start kickin' doors in. NO, I'm not anti-LEO but I am very pro-2nd.Amend.

Exactly. I dont know why LEO's are so afraid when this ability in a handgun has been available for a long time and is MUCH, MUCH cheaper.

Also would like to add that a 30. Cal carbine round will go through 2 layers of kevlar IIIA at close range. What I mean by layers is that it will go through the front of the vest and out the back! I was just curious to find out and did a similar test myself. The bullet stopped in the third layer of kevlar and I still have it today. It mushroomed out nicely.

Posted: 8/18/2004 12:16:47 PM EDT

[#42]

Jeeper21 another sleeper "kevlar cutter" was a ruger blackhawk 7.5" .30M1 carbine chambering
and by that token..a AMT automag III in .30M1. Back on page 6 of this post we shot my panel with plain ol norinco 7.62x25....went right through..though it stopped .357mag/.44mag./.45winmag.
they can build a vest to stop just about anything that is antisipated , but by the same token they can build something to shoot through any specific vest. There is only so much of this crap you can stagger around with on, on a given day. Remember blackhawk down where they got caught short by removing thier ceramic plates for more mobility? Most armor wearers dont wear IIIA or III vests(much less 30lbs+ IV vests) IIA is the most common by the numbers followed by II's for those that have to wear every day. then you put on heavier stuff(if you have it) when the poop hits the fan and you have some bit of warning. the most common threats on the street in the U.S. is not hard to design a vest to stop .38spec/.357 9mm/.40S&W.....and you can live with the vest on a daily basis as not being too hot/stiff to wear. Even W illiam Fairbarn, when he was over the flying squad of the Hong Hong Police in the 30's lamented about those damn 7.63 mauser broomhandles and the penetration they had(though a little light on the ability to down someone quickly) They had two crude bullet proof vest types made for the Hong Kong police......regular...and Mauser proof!
Fairbarn introduced "modern" gunfighting (and the M1911 .45) to that force and soon they began to win gunfights far more often than not.
So we have had to deal with .30 high velocity pistols for quite some time...and its not a problem that goes away, though not common( you are more to encounter 7.62x25 in the hands of a gun enthusiest rather than a crip or blood) for one thing they just use what they can get, or what is cool.
and a CZ52 isnt as cool to them as a wonder 9 or a .40 of the latest type.....or Hi Point. also factor in they dont wear shooting muffs(ouch that Tok is a loud mutha lol) so that takes some of the fun out.

Posted: 8/18/2004 4:52:53 AM EDT

[#43]

Yep, I see the new arrivals costing me as well lol....they said the bolt gun might be a winchester or a Browning, rather than a FN as Herstal group owns U.S. Repeating Arms(Winchester)and Browning.
But wild arse guess...I will need around 800-1100 green backs held in reserve when the civy P90
hits the market. its not going to look too funny(not as bad as an HK94 anyway) as they are only going to have to add 5.8" to the barrel, or a bit over 3 inches if they permanately mount the flash supressor. ( picture the front of the french 5.56 bullpup they currently use "the Le Clarion" ,the barrel pokes out of the front of the receiver about that much)

Posted: 8/18/2004 7:31:43 AM EDT

[#44]

Be sure and pick up the sept.6 issue of shotgun news thats on the shelves now...it has a write up on the P90/FN57 also alludes to FN is working on a civy P90(a 16"barrel semi auto carbine P90) for the U.S. market as well as a ultra short action bolt gun in5.7x28mm

Do you know where I might get ahold of a copy?

Posted: 8/18/2004 7:55:38 AM EDT

[#45]

tagged

Posted: 8/18/2004 8:48:37 AM EDT

[#46]

DML5, I picked mine up at Barnes and Noble..some newsstands carry it and some wallmarts do as well....just paid for a subscription but that dont start for 6 weeks...but I figured with the AWB standing a good chance at a sunset situation, it was a good time to keep up with SGN for neet stuff coming back out and prices going up and down for a while.

Posted: 8/17/2004 7:15:45 PM EDT

[#47]

I saw that pistol on Shooting Gallery ( best show on TV ) I was very impressed by its accuracy. Looks like a keeper to me.

Posted: 8/17/2004 7:29:21 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Be sure and pick up the sept.6 issue of shotgun news thats on the shelves now...it has a write up on the P90/FN57 also alludes to FN is working on a civy P90(a 16"barrel semi auto carbine P90) for the U.S. market as well as a ultra short action bolt gun in5.7x28mm

Seems FN wants to keep my money tied up with them, guess Ill have to get a P90 and a bolt gun for backyard critters. Hope they decide to make cheaper ammo too.

Posted: 8/17/2004 3:30:35 PM EDT

[#49]

Be sure and pick up the sept.6 issue of shotgun news thats on the shelves now...it has a write up on the P90/FN57 also alludes to FN is working on a civy P90(a 16"barrel semi auto carbine P90) for the U.S. market as well as a ultra short action bolt gun in5.7x28mm

Posted: 8/13/2004 11:43:25 AM EDT

[#50]

I had Henry, that works at cheaper than dirt take my vest panel and try some additional pistol rounds on it.
All shots from 15 feet.
1.Norinco lead core 7.62x25 out of a CZ52...cleanly penetrated the L2 panel and bullet wasnt recovered.

2. .357 MAG PMC 158gr. HP(4"686 S&W).......vest stopped it as designed.
3. .240gr PMC .44 MAG TCSP(4"M29 S&W).......vest stopped it as designed
4. .230gr Win fmj , .45 winchester MAG(LAR Grizzley)....vest stopped it as designed

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - FN Five-Seven/ SS192HP PISTOL makes swiss cheese of Level 2 vest today (Page 2 of 8)

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