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Posted: 1/28/2006 9:58:49 AM EDT
[#1]
That's a load of bs. You are either trolling or are very ignorant of 1911's. |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 11:03:06 AM EDT
[#2]
Well, I'm sold.....
I'm going to go pour a nice tall glass of .45 Kool Aid, with a dash of 1911 spice. So many people are so die-hard about the 1911 they refuse to believe that there just MAY be better designed guns out there. Whoda thunk that in 100 years someone MIGHT have found a way to improve on the handgun..... |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 1:18:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Glock is qualified as per the specs posted. Releavent Sections:
3.4.1. Action: The JCP shall function in double action/single action (DA/SA) or double-action only (DAO) including Striker-Fired Action (SFA) (T). The JCP should have a modular action mechanism that allows reconfiguration at the unit level without modification to the weapon’s major assemblies (O). 3.4.6.2. DAO Pistols. The JCP in DAO shall have an internal safety mechanism that prevents the loaded cartridge from firing if the pistol is dropped or struck and mechanically prevents the firing pin/striker from contacting the cartridge primer unless the trigger is pulled (T). If configured with an external safety, the pistol shall meet the requirements of 3.4.6.2.1. 3.7.6. Weapon Shot Counter. The JCP should have a weapon shot counter to record shots fired (O). The shot counter, if provided, shall have a data collection device that connects the shot counter to a computer. The shot counter, if provided, shall have a Microsoft compatible software program that works in conjunction with the shot counter and the data collection device to allow the weapon data to be downloaded and stored on a computer. The shot counter, if provided, shall not interfere with any operations of the JCP. Glock has one developed. Interal Extractor 1911's are not in the running: 4.5.3. Parts interchangeability. Verify all component parts or inseparable subassemblies are 100% interchangeable between pistols without hand or machine fitting in accordance with paragraph 3.5.3: three [3] pistol samples are to be inspected then broken down into component parts. Parts will then be exchanged between weapons and assembled with the components of other weapons. Weapons will undergo safety inspection for headspace, safety, trigger pull, accuracy, and a function test. |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 1:43:55 PM EDT
[#4]
All I want to know is....
When can I get a case of Lake City .45acp on the cheap!!!!!! 
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Posted: 1/28/2006 2:51:34 PM EDT
[#5]
I had a Colt Combat Government 1911 - total junk!
Traded it for a knife. ( OK I do have an SMG in 45... ) |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 3:02:28 PM EDT
[#6]
When something fits my hand better than a 1911 and points more naturally than a 1911, I'll take it into consideration as my go-to gun. This threads topic handgun sounds very promising. |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 3:54:18 PM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 1/28/2006 5:25:39 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 1/28/2006 6:02:45 PM EDT
[#9]
Where can we get it at all? and what are the specs  ?
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Posted: 1/28/2006 6:25:26 PM EDT
[#10]
funny colt produced 1911s all thru the war and they ran fine.....and they did not cost 1500, |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 6:48:36 PM EDT
[#11]
.9mm is for girls. My wife has one.
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Posted: 1/28/2006 8:16:34 PM EDT
[#12]
I'm all ears.
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Posted: 1/28/2006 8:28:38 PM EDT
[#13]
Assuming you meant WWII; look up the time-value of money. You could buy a really nice house for a few grand 60 years ago. So in constant dollar terms, a well made 1911 costs the same today as it did then. Skilled labor is expensive. G |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 8:29:37 PM EDT
[#14]
 I need to hang out in the handgun forum more often, little did I know the can of worms I was opening I'll take .45 hardball over 9mm hardball anyday. 9mm hardball is a pitiful combat bullet, even from a gun with a magazine that works! .45 hardball is actually a pretty good load, and I've never had a $1500 1911, but all mine have functioned fine out of the box. |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 10:37:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Thought I'd throw this one back in the mix since it got lost in all the superfluous conversations..... Woody |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 10:53:31 PM EDT
[#16]
The USP Tac doesn't have a Picatinny rail, so it doesn't meet the solicititation requirements. That's why the HK45 is in development. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 1:00:16 AM EDT
[#17]
Dont you mean .355 |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:09:59 AM EDT
[#18]
current glocks are not in the running. they are not a traditonal DAO or SA/DA as per you stated. they are a single action only system. pulling the trigger without cocking the gun doesnt do anything. that is what 3.4.1 is talking about. the part you bolded just lets striker fired guns to be eligable that use a SA/DA or DAO trigger, like the orginal walther p99's . |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:20:43 AM EDT
[#19]
It's not as noticable in the 45 for some reason. I love my USP45 but hate my USP9 & USP9c because it's very noticable. Maybe because the 9mm is flippy (if thats a word) and the 45 is pushy but I don't notice a difference between the USP45 and my 1911. I don't own a tactical yet but I suspect its even smoother 
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:33:00 AM EDT
[#20]
As I read this: "When pressure is applied to the JCP trigger and then released, the trigger shall reset to its forward-most position, even if the pistol is not fired" Glock is out. Trigger doesn't reset if the slide doesn't cycle. Anybody have a different take? |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:45:22 AM EDT
[#21]
a glock as is would be out, doesnt mean that Gastons sidekicks arent working on changing that for this. shouldnt be too hard to do. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:59:55 AM EDT
[#22]
No disrespect to any owners of HK or GLOCKS, I've got friends that own both, and I appreciate them.
But I believe our government should only buy U.S manufactured goods. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 11:35:12 AM EDT
[#23]
Hence the HK plant in development... |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 11:38:58 AM EDT
[#24]
No shit...any one you heros wanna take a 9mm round to the chest? What..I can't hear you..I didn't think so.  Now if this really happens, the SIG is a good choice. The P220 is a great sidearm. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 11:46:34 AM EDT
[#25]
Glock had been gearing up to manufacture in the US for many months now. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 11:54:00 AM EDT
[#26]
I really hope that it is not a double stack, double stack of 45 acp just doesnt fit alot of peoples hands. What they need is for MGI to make a modular frame that the end user could choose a single stack or double stack configuration. I would rather be armed with a 9mm that fit my hand than a 45 that didnt. I really dont know if I would chose a single stcka 45 over a double stack 9mm. I would think that a single stack Para Ordnance LDA would be a good choice here. I really cant think of a better choice personally. I am not saying the it would have to be a PO but a PO type system.
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Posted: 1/29/2006 11:57:30 AM EDT
[#27]
I thought one of the guns in an early link talked about an HK 1.5 stack, so I'm guessing they're trying to address the fat grip issue with that.
I have a Glock-30 that shoots great, but the fat grip drives me nuts, forever keeping it on a "Do I keep it or trade it" list whenever I'm starting to think about a new gun. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 12:21:09 PM EDT
[#28]
The M9's fat grip is a huge problem(no pun) with most shooters who try to use a proper military grip on the weapon.
The new .45 should be single or 1.5(?) stack. The DA/SA is another stupid idea, transitioning from da to sa pull without stringing out the hits is hard and takes practice. More than it is worth for a secondary weapon. Why hasn't anyone brought up how IDIOTIC the shot counter requirement is? |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 12:33:09 PM EDT
[#29]
I found the M-9 to be just on the brink of too fat, but comfortable. For a 9mm it was just too fat though, they could have made it much slimmer. I have yet to find a doublestack .45 grip I'm in love with.
I think if they can pull off a shot counter inexpensively, without any interference with the guns operation, just a detection device, I'd give it some consideration. Glock has registered some patents quite a while ago for a shot counter that detects the shot by some sort of detection of the round going off, so dry firing won't trigger it. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 12:52:50 PM EDT
[#30]
not me...but then i am not trying to shoot myself--just the badguys
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Posted: 1/29/2006 1:12:43 PM EDT
[#31]
I would have to see some data on that to agree. Your saying that a 1911 mass produced in the 1940s cost the same as a Springfield 1911 produced today....... I doubt it. Even if your refering to inflation being of constant value, I still would think that the older 1911s were cheaper than newer models produced. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 1:19:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Just because I don't want to be shot in the chest with a 9mm doesn't make it the ideal combat cartridge. I'm not going to volunteer to be shot by a .22 or a .17hmr either, is anyone going to argue that they are ideal combat cartridges?
A pistol is a last resort anyway, personally I carry a 9mm G19 with Gold Dots or Ranger SXT's, but I feel much more comfortable with them than hardball which is what the military will be using. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 1:19:39 PM EDT
[#33]
I dont, they mass produced forged domestically produced pistols during the war. now they are produced in far lower numbers but they cut costs by getting parts cast in Brazil. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 1:31:01 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 1/29/2006 1:51:20 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 1/29/2006 2:21:27 PM EDT
[#36]
+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 As for those saying issue 9mm FMJ is a effective combat round: 
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Posted: 1/29/2006 2:21:48 PM EDT
[#37]
Damn, Adair, a 9mm is only for women and pansies??? I carried a Browning HP in the Nam, and it never let me down. I own two 9s, and shoot a few others. I have access to 45s, but if you put'em in the black, you can shoot a .22 and do the job! If you do like they taught you in the Crotch, you don't need a recoilless rifle to drop someone. Hit what the hell you're aiming at. The 9mms give you more rounds to drop more targets before reloading. And as USMC, you should be aware that a pistol is only used to fight your way to a functioning rifle!
RECON! Hurah!! |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 2:45:47 PM EDT
[#38]
yes cast |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 2:46:06 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 1/29/2006 2:53:26 PM EDT
[#40]
That's true, I didn't take that into account. But there is still NO WAY you would have to pay 1500 dollars for a 1911 to run fine. SA GI 1911s that retail for what 400 to 450 run just fine. And if you had a gov't contract the price would be lower still. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 2:57:28 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
I need to hang out in the handgun forum more often, little did I know the can of worms I was opening I'll take .45 hardball over 9mm hardball anyday. 9mm hardball is a pitiful combat bullet, even from a gun with a magazine that works! .45 hardball is actually a pretty good load The truth is .45 ball isn't any more effective than 9mm ball. A study I seen noted that .45 ball had 2% more 1 shot stops than 9mm. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 3:01:31 PM EDT
[#42]
Although I seldom carry it the Sig P220 I bought ten years ago is a nice gun. I also purchased a dozen Sig factory produced eight round mags with hard rubber base pads... I'm not sure if Sig still offers the 8 round mag conversions or the rubber pads but they are 100% reliable if you get them for your gun... FYI 
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Posted: 1/29/2006 3:07:34 PM EDT
[#43]
And a highcap 9mm could be for people who need to compensate for something. Poor shot placement maybe? Im neutral cause I dont own a handgun yet and my first one will be a 9mm cause of cheap ammo, but I WILL buy a .45 also. Isnt the new XD a 9mm size grip double stack .45? If they make a 5 inch tactical model could that be an option? |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 3:09:17 PM EDT
[#44]
 Right from Springfield's website "Every Springfield 1911 begins with a forged frame and slide..." |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 3:21:55 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 1/29/2006 3:48:36 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 1/29/2006 4:03:48 PM EDT
[#47]
Seriously, if you are surrounded by seven armed guys and all you have is a pistol, you are pretty much boned. I hear all the time, "put it in the black and it doesn't matter what caliber it is", great, as long as you are a fucking IPSC champ or something, who can shoot on the move at a moving target that is also returning fire and make pinpoint hits everytime, but most of the people who get pistols don't even come close to that kind of skill level. Maybe all you 9mm hardball patrons do, but i'd like to withhold my accolades until I see it for myself.
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Posted: 1/29/2006 4:04:45 PM EDT
[#48]
That is the truth regardless if you want to believe it or not
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Posted: 1/29/2006 4:30:28 PM EDT
[#49]
Excellent! |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 4:34:58 PM EDT
[#50]
Bad news rm. It has been proven that all those stats written by a certian "gun expert" showing 98% one shot stop this, 75% one shot stop that, were made up. As in pulled out of his ass. |
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