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Posted: 4/2/2024 11:17:07 AM EDT
Does anyone know if DocGKR/Gary Roberts is still active in any forums? I know pistol-forum has some recommendations from him, but they are getting a bit dated. Mostly wanted to know if there have been any noteworthy developments in the past few years.
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Originally Posted By peachy: Does anyone know if DocGKR/Gary Roberts is still active in any forums? I know pistol-forum has some recommendations from him, but they are getting a bit dated. Mostly wanted to know if there have been any noteworthy developments in the past few years. View Quote The SME idiots on this site ran him off. I haven't seen him post in years. |
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"History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives."-Abba Eban
"I like it both ways, but still mainly mouth it" -gonzo_beyondo |
If the truth makes you uncomfortable, don't blame the truth. Blame the lie that made you comfortable. -James Ng Uni
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You can actually find some good ammo testing on YouTube. I would recommend watching 'tnoutdoors9' and 'Tools&Targets' for some very professional ammo testing. Tools&Targets has the more current testing result's. I really am serious about finding some good testing on YT, regardless of the shenanigan's they pull over there. These are the first two Creator's that came to mind.
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Don’t Make Your Problem...My Problem.
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Well that is a shame. I thought he'd taken up residence on pistol-forum, but doesn't seem to be much action there in the ammo section.
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Originally Posted By max2330: You can actually find some good ammo testing on YouTube. I would recommend watching 'tnoutdoors9' and 'Tools&Targets' for some very professional ammo testing. Tools&Targets has the more current testing result's. I really am serious about finding some good testing on YT, regardless of the shenanigan's they pull over there. These are the first two Creator's that came to mind. View Quote That said, it’s hard to go wrong with Winchester Ranger and Federal HST. |
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If the truth makes you uncomfortable, don't blame the truth. Blame the lie that made you comfortable. -James Ng Uni
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Originally Posted By KILLERB6: I essentially use only TNOUTDOORS9 so that it’s an apples:apples comparison since he rigorously controls his testing protocol. That said, it’s hard to go wrong with Winchester Ranger and Federal HST. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By KILLERB6: Originally Posted By max2330: You can actually find some good ammo testing on YouTube. I would recommend watching 'tnoutdoors9' and 'Tools&Targets' for some very professional ammo testing. Tools&Targets has the more current testing result's. I really am serious about finding some good testing on YT, regardless of the shenanigan's they pull over there. These are the first two Creator's that came to mind. That said, it’s hard to go wrong with Winchester Ranger and Federal HST. I don't think so, in some tests he was using Clear Ballistics gel which isn't the same as FBI-spec 10% ballistic gelatin. |
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HST
GOLD DOT |
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I will also add that there is not too much new ammo tech coming out constantly. Most of us have seen numerous detailed comparisons of Gold Dot, .vs HST .vs Win. Ranger, etc vids and there is only so much commentary, informed or otherwise, that can be repeated over and over. Also a lot of agencies seem to have settled on one load or another and seem happy.
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: I will also add that there is not too much new ammo tech coming out constantly. Most of us have seen numerous detailed comparisons of Gold Dot, .vs HST .vs Win. Ranger, etc vids and there is only so much commentary, informed or otherwise, that can be repeated over and over. Also a lot of agencies seem to have settled on one load or another and seem happy. View Quote Yeah, I'm not expecting radical changes/improvements, but it seems like ammo manufacturers have often tinkered with the bullets over the years. DocGKR was just a great source to go to once in awhile to see if there was anything new or any developments one should be apprised of. There especially seem to be a number of recent developments in ammo designed specifically for subcompact/microcompact carry guns, and it would be nice to have a known SME to refer to for that. |
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If a 147 grn 9mm at 1000 FPS is the hammer of Thor then a 165 grn. 40 at 1200 fps must a lightening bolt from Zeus!
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He still posts on PF but he has a life
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"If you cant do something smart, do something right"
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uh
Molon he does it different but is still a pretty good wiki |
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HST.
And I still have a ton of 9BPLE+p+ I wouldn't hesitate to use. Old design but quite potent. |
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Liberals are a curious mix of communism and fascism, they want to destroy you but want to use your own money to do it.
I'm getting down to the last box, the other have all been destroyed... |
Originally Posted By Tejas1836: I don't think so, in some tests he was using Clear Ballistics gel which isn't the same as FBI-spec 10% ballistic gelatin. View Quote |
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If the truth makes you uncomfortable, don't blame the truth. Blame the lie that made you comfortable. -James Ng Uni
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I could be remembering incorrectly, but I thought he left pistol-forum after getting shit on for leaving a not 100% good review about a training class (it wasn't a bad review just made some comments about what he would have liked to see and it caused butthurt).
Correct me if I'm wrong, please. |
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“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a 10mm at your side, kid.”
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Originally Posted By KILLERB6: I don’t care what he is using (we will always argue over this gel vs. that gel) but that he does it the same way each time, which makes comparisons between calibers/cartridges valid. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By KILLERB6: Originally Posted By Tejas1836: I don't think so, in some tests he was using Clear Ballistics gel which isn't the same as FBI-spec 10% ballistic gelatin. No, sometimes he uses FBI spec, sometimes clear There is no argument about FBI spec gel is the standard. |
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As far as I know, he left the internet. Not because of here, but because he had a minor criticism of a Ken Hackathorn class on TOS. After that the same guys who parroted his info left and right ran a massive campaign to harm his character and banned him. They even called him an over glorified dentist.
Now Ken Hackathorn says civilians don’t need lights or red dots so the thuper therious fruitcakes at M4C chose very poorly. Just search “Shivan” and “docgkr”, and you’ll find the shit show. We’re lucky those guys left here. |
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https://instagram.com/_odiegreen_?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==
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Originally Posted By Ghostface: Fastbolt? If that's who you're talking about I didn't know he stopped posting... View Quote Anyway, he posted about his real world experiences with firearms, cartridges, bullets, ballistics and lethality…and the forums (ARF included) called it all BS. |
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If the truth makes you uncomfortable, don't blame the truth. Blame the lie that made you comfortable. -James Ng Uni
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Gold Dots are still the Gold Standard. Followed by HSTs and Critical Duty. Check Gunsam Revolver Oficianado on youtube. He does REALLY good testing
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Gold Dots, Ranger T, HST, Critical Duty
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Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get!
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I survived the cockpocalypse of 11/21/2012.
Bacon grease, the Muslim approved .mil lubricant. |
You look at all the Boutique Ammo makers....if their stuff was SO GOOD then why do not they have large scale LE contracts..... Because it is not cost effective and host of other reasons.
Plus then you factor in all "you people" who do not actually go out and shoot. And that is the vast majority of people. Plus the cost of the fancy schmaltzy ammo precludes people from actually verifying accuracy and function in people's defensive guns. Come on who are someone of you kidding? Look at all the foo foo ammo! It comes boxed in 20 or 25 count boxes with obscene prices. You can find good Speer and Federal LE ammo in 50 count boxes that may cost what a box of 20 foo foo rounds costs. It is hard to find Hornady LE boxed ammo. So you are stuck with getting it in 20/25 count boxes which is spendy! For me in the 9MM I carry good old Federal 9BPLE. Cheaper and comes in 50ct boxes. And lets talk turkey here. All the foo foo ammo in the world WILL never make up for poor shooting skills. I would rather carry FMJ's and be a competent shooter than to be carrying some designer ammo that I have never tested out of my fancy defensive gun! And, we all know guys shy away from going to shooting enhancement classes as it may showcase their poor shooting acumen! And it would put a dent in their fragile ego! Tools is not professional. But he is entertainment God bless his heart. If he was professional he would have actual testing fixtures and a real sturdy bench to shoot off of. He gets caught up hoopla! He and many other YT content creator cover the same ground over and over! BORING |
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jme and I am a NRA Endowment Member
Don't be too timid and squeamish about your actions. All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better. R W Emerson |
Originally Posted By peachy: Does anyone know if DocGKR/Gary Roberts is still active in any forums? I know pistol-forum has some recommendations from him, but they are getting a bit dated. View Quote Thanks to the mouth-breathers on this site that think that they know more than an actual expert in the field of terminal ballistics Gary hasn't posted on this website in years. I'd be quite surprised if he ever decides to share his data on this site again. ... |
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All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
Originally Posted By KILLERB6: I don’t care what he is using (we will always argue over this gel vs. that gel) but that he does it the same way each time, which makes comparisons between calibers/cartridges valid. View Quote No he doesn't and no it doesn't. Comparing any results to a test that failed to follow the scientific standard for terminal ballistic testing means exactly jack and shit. .. |
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All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
Originally Posted By AJE: I could be remembering incorrectly, but I thought he left pistol-forum after getting shit on for leaving a not 100% good review about a training class (it wasn't a bad review just made some comments about what he would have liked to see and it caused butthurt). Correct me if I'm wrong, please. View Quote Incorrect. That was on TOS. .... |
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All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
double tap
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All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
Originally Posted By Molon: Originally Posted By max2330: You can actually find some good ammo testing on YouTube . . . 'Tools&Targets' for some very professional ammo testing. . .... Tools&Targets does not take criticism of his techniques and practices well, and even took to talking trash to 22Plinkster when his garbage Clear Ballistics gel failed to reproduce 22Plinkster's gel test results in actual organic ballistic gel for the CCI Uppercut. Other people who used organic gel had good luck, and those that used Clear Ballistics didn't. |
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Originally Posted By Molon: Thanks to the mouth-breathers on this site that think that they know more than an actual expert in the field of terminal ballistics Gary hasn't posted on this website in years. I'd be quite surprised if he ever decides to share his data on this site again. ... View Quote Agreed. But most folks that pop in have no idea about the creds of other posters. In fact I think many come here just to argue and dont know how to respectfully disagree without being a dick. |
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OP, you mention duty ammo, are you a LEO? If so the FBI used to (and I believe still does) publish a law enforcement only report on the effectiveness of ammunition for law enforcement use. IIRC the request had to be on agency letter head or from a leo email and it had to be from a Sgt or higher. The reports Ive seen were well done and the purpose was to allow smaller depts that did not have a huge budget to benefit from the testing done by the FBI Ballistic Research Facility. If your agency is looking to evaluate ammunition, reach out to the company and see if they will send a rep to you. Nearly all the major suppliers of duty ammo will do this.
Im not the forensic guy mentioned above, but I have been in the forensic firearms field for over 20 years. In my experience from working decades worth of fatal and non-fatal shootings, there are several good factory loads that perform well under various conditions. In my area most agencies are using Winchester Ranger, Federal HST, or Speer Gold Dot. From the officer involved shootings Ive worked these cartridges all performed as well as could be expected from a handgun. |
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Originally Posted By Ghostface: Fastbolt? If that's who you're talking about I didn't know he stopped posting... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Ghostface: Originally Posted By KILLERB6: Yep. Just like that cop on Glock Talk wish I could find his threads. Fastbolt? If that's who you're talking about I didn't know he stopped posting... He was enormously helpful and a real resource on the Gen 3 pistols. |
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