We did this once before, time to try again. It's only 7 yards so you irons guys should be fine

The official FBI-QIT-99 "bottle" targets are not very common so I made some modifications to make it simpler to shoot for the AR15.com edition (use of IPSC target, using 2 vs 3 targets on stage 6, etc); however, the spirit of the drill is very much the same - a blend of speed and accuracy.

This is just for fun, but if you want to participate you'll need:
- CCW setup with 1 spare mag, timer, and 30 rounds
- 2 ISPC targets at 7 yards
- To post a pic of your score sheet along with primary target (I'll trust your target 2 is all alphas unless you tell us otherwise)
- "Official" rules are found below.

Who's in?

Drop Box Link to PDF: ARF FAMQ

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Passing Score = 135+ points, all hits on paper (30 rounds / no misses), and did not fail any stage par times

Arf qualified Air Marshals (CCW setup, preferably IWB):
- 2alpha-down0
- 03RN
- evnash
- Fooboy

Junior Marshals (non CCW setup):
-
-
-

Tag, this looks fun.

What's the approved sequence? String 1 stages 1-7 then string 2 stages 1-7?

Or
Stage 1; string 1-string 2
Stage 2; string 1-string 2
etc

Stage 1. String 1, then 2.
Stage 2. String 1, then 2.
etc

Why the separation for IWB and OWB? The qual was shot with an open top leather paddle holster and a cover garment at the academy.

Let's see how I do with my mountain gun this year.

A covered owb CCW holster is good but a war belt/gamer holster/range holster - while impressive - is against the spirit of the drill.

Can we modify this a bit for indoor ranges where we can’t shoot multiple targets side by side? Perhaps a couple of b8s on the same large target can count as 2 separate targets?

I'm just gonna use a couple sheets of printer paper. Pretty sure it's close size to A zone. Certainly won't miss any

It's just a friendly challenge.

A zone = approx 11 x 6

Thanks fellas. Have been wanting to give this a try for a while, this may help me actually do it.

Tried it today with the 1911 and didn’t quite make the par times. Thick winter jackets make quite a bit of difference in draw times lol.

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Got a bit of pinch/bite on one of the reloads.

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New Hampshire?  Probably freezing out there

Meh, 32 is like flannel weather at this point.

34 up here today, so a little above freezing  But 03RN is right, that's pretty warm for us this time of year.  I don't think I put my gloves on for most of the day.

Just to make this more fun, Ken Hackathorn said in a recent Wilson YouTube video he has not met a single person who passed this qual with a red dot.

I am not a red dot shooter primarily, but I feel like this is very doable with a dot, so I may give it a go.

Love Ken, but I think he’s off on this one.

Haha that's what made me dust this off

Tag. Cool challenge. I'm ready to get out and shoot it. Life has been crazy lately and I haven't been able to do much real shooting in a couple of months more than firing a mag here and there in my back yard. I'm ready to do some real shooting, challenges, timers, multiple targets etc. My buddy texted me 2 days ago and said I better get my shit together because he is ready to do the same. We usually shoot together every week or 2, and it's been since Thanksgiving

Hell, I still have to shoot the Candle challenge! That's a great one too!

Shoot it folks! Post it up. I look forward to seeing how everyone does. Shooting is fun

Thanks for posting it up Fooboy!

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About what I expected.

Subbed

Let's see if I can best last year's
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That's a great run. Was that concealed?!

I’m in. Supposed to rain tomorrow, but maybe I can shoot it on Sunday.

Oh shit, I'm not sure I'll beat my run from last year. Except I'll probably get the par time with a moon clipped gun

Last years
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It appears by the times that a reasonably competent A class shooter should be able to qualify.

Your math seems off, a C zone hit is minus 3, not 1, there is no minus 1 hit. By my math assuming all you -1's are actually minus 3 C zone hits and your minus 4 is 4 C zone hits. Thats 7 C zone hits at minus 3 each or your down 21 and a score of 129, which would be a fail.

total max poinys is 30 rounds 5 points max each round 150 total. Minus 7 C zone hits is -21 points. But still respectable to make par

@11boomboom

I've done it several times so I just picked one of my sheets from last year. I was using IDPA targets on some of the runs, so that might have been it.

Now I'm reading it, it might be the dropped shots in the c-zone. So minus one means I dropped one shot in the c-zone. It was a while ago, so I don't remember exactly.

ETA: here's my SUCCESSFUL 1911 run
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As i edited in, still respectable to make par

Yeah, I went back through the math and it came out to 129, I think.
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I struggled with the scoring last year, too.

In. Gonna do it with a buddy on Sunday. Will see how it goes.

I'm in

might try it with a few guns

interesting qual, never heard of this before

I’m in too, have to wait until next Friday morning though.

That didn't look too hard until I realized the times were both strings combined.

You'd need a lot of practice to get that good.

Some people practice a lot.  

FAIL.

G19 gen4, Swampfox Liberty optic. (No, Hack is STILL wrong, I just sucked!) Concealed, AIWB.

Made all the par times except for string 4.

Still though. Not horrible Joe.

Very close. You'll get it next time.

Shot this today with my Sig P365XL. Missed most par times but scores were all there. I could only imagine a red dot helping. My spare mag holster and 12rd mag sit so low that I had a hard time with the reloads. Plan to get a spare Macro mag for additional capacity but also more grip. I felt good shooting as well as a did and not using a full size gun.

Stage 1: 2:06, 2:06 F
Stage 2: 1:22, 1:33 P
Stage 3: 2:32 P
Stage 4: 3:73, 3:78 F
Stage 5: 1:59, 1:55 F
Stage 6: 3:59, 3:48 F
Stage 7: 3:60, 3:36 P

Total score: 142

I went out to the range today for another purpose, but it was raining cats and dogs.  There is a covered area about 12 yards long, so it was the perfect opportunity to try out this qual, since I couldn't do anything else.  I had already printed up some score sheets and a bunch of scoring-zones and had them in my truck, so it all worked out perfectly.

First time 'cold' was with my EDC G19 with RMR, OWB at about 4 O-Clock.  I missed par time on stage 1 by about 2 tenths, so technically it was game-over.  But I continued and only dropped two shots outside of the 4x5 scoring area for the entire course, making par time on everything else (just barely).  I know you're not supposed to shoot it after warming up, but since I had nothing else to do, I burned through a couple hundred rounds with different guns, just to see.

I consider myself an above average shooter, and I only passed about 65-70% of the time.  If I failed, it was almost always stage 1.  I think having a 'shoot-me-first' vest or a nice sorta-stiff windbreaker would be ideal for the gun-reveal.  I was using a T-shirt first, and later a light cotton button-up shirt, and found that there just wasn't enough 'weight' in the material to clear the garment away cleanly.  I did notice that, on stage 1, once I accepted that a hit within the 4x5 box wasn't essential to pass the course, and time was more important, my pass-rate went up to nearly 100%.  If you fumble the reveal or draw on stage 1, it's hard to make par-time.

Take aways:  
-I recognize that folks are using an IPSC target out of convenience, but you are cheating yourself a good bit--the actual 'full-point-value' scoring area of the Q-target is 4x6" (or 4x5.25", I've seen both measurements) while the A-zone of an IPSC target is roughly 6x11".  That's a big difference.  I just drew a 4x5.25" box on a piece of paper and made a bunch of copies to take to the range.
-I did the qual course with 6 different guns:  G19/RMR, VP9/RMR, P320/SRO, CZ75/RMR and a G17/RMR.  All of my times were nearly identical.  I don't know what that means--I probably just suck equally as bad with all of them.  
-The basis of this thread--MRDS or not for the qual course--to me it's not even a question.  I re-shot each gun with the dot turned off for iron sight score and the dot is a CLEAR winner (for me).  I really haven't shot irons much after transitioning to a dot for both work and play, and I immediately saw the dot as superior in just this simple drill.  I just track the dot so much better than iron sights.

Anyway, fun qual course, and not super-easy.  I'll keep the targets and score card in my truck and shoot it the way it's meant to be shot each time I go to the range.

ETA:  I can't find it stated anywhere--what's the start position for the concealed stages--surrender? Hands at side?

I just went hands at side.

One area where AIWB shines, for me, is having no problem with a fast first shot from concealment.  And yes, accept that those first 2 don't have to be perfect, just fast. My times on those first two were 1.24 & 1.36. I think I hit an A on one, but not the other.  

Totally agree on the target.  The A zone we're using here is wider and more forgiving than the FBI-QIT-97

For that matter, the C zone on these is more forgiving up top too.

And hell yes, the dot rules.  ALL my scores on all pistol drills have gone up since transitioning a couple years ago.  Better precision too, at distance.

Did it today. I busted times on some. I'll post up my sheet later on. Haven't totaled the points.

Good insights. I’m going to give it a shoot this Saturday. (Can’t do it on Super Bowl Sunday. ).


That’s what I was wondering …. Here’s your ‘benchmark’ from surrender position:

https://tenor.com/view/jim-zubiena-miami-vice-hitman-quick-draw-gif-13076348

. I ran this several times last year in my GD pistol challenge thread. Since then I’ve had my archon cut for a 507k shot owb concealed.

150 points, under all par times

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yeah I just easily aced it this afternoon. See above post

Damn dude, nice run!  Great times and solid hits.  What holster you using?

Yeah I've been reading Hackathorn for years (never had the opportunity to train with him), and was always one of the good sources for solid TTPs and learning, but lately he's demonstrated his lack of evolving, so to speak.

Or maybe he's trying to remain relevant by playing the contrarian.  But he's dead wrong about pistol MRDS.

Why the shit don't we have more shooters getting in on this?  It's like ARFCOM is 10,000 dudes talking about guns and taking pics of them, and 10 people actually shooting.

My own build
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So over a year ago I started a pistol drill thread in GD. Right after Eli Dickens shooting. Every month I posted a new drill with videos, descriptions, etc. every kept up with a scoreboard. First month I had 20+ shooters post their results. By the 5th month there were around 7-8 and for the next year  we averaged around 5 people a month until I let it die

I even made a post here on handgun discussions and not a single person replied.


I’m convinced that 90% of members don’t even shoot their guns and of those 10% that do, they will never post any drill results

This is the new course of fire for our qualifications as security officers. Seems we're doing stuff that's much harder than our federal counterparts. During my last quals, I can remember being at the 3, 7, and 15 yard with targets that size. I passed with both a 9mm and a .38 snub.



This is HR 218. Basic Police qualification and LEOSA. For those who aren't actively serving in a federal capacity, the requirements seem to be somewhat steeper. For what it's worth, I am certain that the Air Marshal training goes well beyond their basic qualification course of fire. They do have to qualify using a course of fire at least annually, but some agencies do it quarterly. And believe it or not, there are some people out there who ended up having to do it more than once. Their schedules don't always permit them being able to train in between mandatory courses.

Anyways, I will attempt to do this course of fire if I am able to. I'd like to see for myself if I can pass it with a Shield plus.

Has anyone passed in 2024 from concealment IWB?

I hate to say I told you so... but I told you so