User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 9/14/2021 8:47:41 PM EDT
A long while ago I built a 1911 using a PSA frame and a Rock Island slide.
 Attached FileI'm not sure if it's because it needs to be broken in, there's maybe 200 rounds through it. But it has a bad habit of driving the nose of the cartridges into the bottom of the barrel hood instead of into the chamber. Here's a bad paint of what I'm talking about:  Attached FileWhat could be causing this? I've adjusted the extractor and I'm not sure what else could be causing this. Is the recoil spring too strong or too weak? I'm leaning towards it possibly being a recoil spring issue. I'm not sure what weight spring came with the RIA slide. Before I adjusted the extractor it was happening all the time, like every other round. I went to the range today and it didn't happen a lot but when it did it was kind of frustrating. Thanks for the help. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2021 8:57:04 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm no expert but mine had the same problem turned out to be the extractor needed to be beveled.
The corner was so sharp it would gouge the case and stop the case just like you describe. Bill Wilson has a good tutorial on this fix. But, your problem could be something else. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2021 8:57:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Try new magazines or stronger magazine springs.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2021 9:28:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Could be the feed ramp, maybe the magazine, maybe the ammo. The extractor can be frustrating sometimes to tune just right also. Does it feed ok without the extractor? Take it apart and put the barrel on and load a mag and see how the round lines up with the chamber.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2021 9:31:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: I'm no expert but mine had the same problem turned out to be the extractor needed to be beveled. The corner was so sharp it would gouge the case and stop the case just like you describe. Bill Wilson has a good tutorial on this fix. But, your problem could be something else. I'll look into running the extractor a bit more. Quoted: Try new magazines or stronger magazine springs. I've tried standard mags, the mags from my Taurus and the ones I used today were two CMC Power mags. Quoted: Could be the feed ramp, maybe the magazine, maybe the ammo. The extractor can be frustrating sometimes to tune just right also. Does it feed ok without the extractor? Take it apart and put the barrel on and load a mag and see how the round lines up with the chamber. I didn't think of trying this. I'll give this a try tomorrow. Thanks everyone. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2021 9:34:47 PM EDT
[#5]
Are you using a standard GI 16 - 16.5 pound spring?
Common home-built 1911 problem, you can fix it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2021 10:10:22 PM EDT
[#6]
My double stack Rock Island in .40 would do that and I fixed it by modifying the feed lips on the magazine a bit, and beveling the extractor more. The .40 guns are more finicky than the .45 too though, and I wasn't loading long.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2021 10:35:54 PM EDT
[#7]
This extractor fitting tutorial may be of some help: https://www.1911forum.com/threads/steve-in-allentown-extractor-fitting.829865/
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/14/2021 10:41:33 PM EDT
[#8]
I would be taking a close look at that extractor. As was mentioned, maybe check the bevels, or maybe tension.
Another possibility might be the lockup timing or lack thereof. Maybe barrel link (size) or lug fit? I doubt it has anything to do with ammo or magazines. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/15/2021 3:12:29 AM EDT
[#9]
Looking at your drawing it shows the the bullet striking the top of the chamber and the breech face is impacting midway about the middle of the case
If that’s accurate it’s not the extractor because the rim is trapped under the breech face and not contacting the extractor and looks like the slide is not traveling fully the the rear and is short stroking Things I would check Too heavy recoil spring You’re limp writing the gun which is retarding the slides rearward movement Something is stopping the rounds in the magazine from popping up Barrel fit, I bought one of the eBay rock island kits and built it on a PSA frame, and the barrel that came with the kit was junk |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/15/2021 7:42:59 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: This extractor fitting tutorial may be of some help: https://www.1911forum.com/threads/steve-in-allentown-extractor-fitting.829865/ Quoted: I would be taking a close look at that extractor. As was mentioned, maybe check the bevels, or maybe tension. Another possibility might be the lockup timing or lack thereof. Maybe barrel link (size) or lug fit? I doubt it has anything to do with ammo or magazines. Thanks, I’m going to pull the gun apart tonight after work and check a few things that have been suggested in the thread. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/15/2021 7:46:35 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looking at your drawing it shows the the bullet striking the top of the chamber and the breech face is impacting midway about the middle of the case If that’s accurate it’s not the extractor because the rim is trapped under the breech face and not contacting the extractor and looks like the slide is not traveling fully the the rear and is short stroking Things I would check Too heavy recoil spring You’re limp writing the gun which is retarding the slides rearward movement Something is stopping the rounds in the magazine from popping up Barrel fit, I bought one of the eBay rock island kits and built it on a PSA frame, and the barrel that came with the kit was junk I ditched the RIA barrel for a Fusion barrel shortly after getting the kit too. I too thought maybe the slide isn’t coming all the way back, I forget what weight recoil spring the RIA kit came with. I might order a 16 pound spring; for some reason I think the RIA kit came with an 18 or 20 pound spring. It’s possible I have been limp wresting it, it’s been at least a year since I’ve actually shot any handguns due to the scamdemic and lack of ammo. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/15/2021 9:13:35 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:It’s possible I have been limp wresting it . . . Alternately, the standard weight mainspring is 23lbs. I've gone down as low as a 16lb mainspring with no ill effects. So, you can either lighten the recoil spring, the mainspring, or both to allow the slide to move fully to the rear. These are drop-in solutions. Changing the profile of the firing pin stop will require time and effort to file it to a new shape. A good place to go for springs is Wolff Gunsprings. Here's a limp wristing video that's been around for a while: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsewsolPyBU |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/15/2021 10:02:29 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Limp wristing" can be mitigated by using a lighter recoil spring, lighter mainspring, and/or a radically profiled firing pin stop. The idea is to make it easier for the slide to move fully to the rear. If your pistol has a 5" barrel and is .45 ACP, the standard recoil spring weight is 16lbs but it will run perfectly well with a 14lb spring for standard pressure factory ammo. If that doesn't eliminate "limp wristing", you can go down to 12lbs. Alternately, the standard weight mainspring is 23lbs. I've gone down as low as a 16lb mainspring with no ill effects. So, you can either lighten the recoil spring, the mainspring, or both to allow the slide to move fully to the rear. These are drop-in solutions. Changing the profile of the firing pin stop will require time and effort to file it to a new shape. A good place to go for springs is Wolff Gunsprings. Here's a limp wristing video that's been around for a while: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsewsolPyBU Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:It’s possible I have been limp wresting it . . . Alternately, the standard weight mainspring is 23lbs. I've gone down as low as a 16lb mainspring with no ill effects. So, you can either lighten the recoil spring, the mainspring, or both to allow the slide to move fully to the rear. These are drop-in solutions. Changing the profile of the firing pin stop will require time and effort to file it to a new shape. A good place to go for springs is Wolff Gunsprings. Here's a limp wristing video that's been around for a while: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsewsolPyBU Awesome! Thank you! And I don’t why I always thought “Limp Wristing” was code for operator error and stop being a pussy.  And I just watched that video and imy 1911 acts just like that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/15/2021 1:13:53 PM EDT
[#14]
What magazines? If your drawing is accurate, it looks like 1 of 3 things or combination of those 3 things. Short stroke(softball ammo), too much recoil spring, or/and weak mag springs/feed lip angle. I never saw you mention what mags you were using, but try a new wilson etm or cobra Tripp. Either one of those will eliminate any mag issue and help diagnose the problem. Plus they are great mags and stand up better over time than the other 1911 garbage mags.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/15/2021 1:26:44 PM EDT
[#15]
Sounds like a magazine issue. I had similar issues when using the factory Colt 8-round flush fit mag.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/15/2021 3:58:43 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What magazines? If your drawing is accurate, it looks like 1 of 3 things or combination of those 3 things. Short stroke(softball ammo), too much recoil spring, or/and weak mag springs/feed lip angle. I never saw you mention what mags you were using, but try a new wilson etm or cobra Tripp. Either one of those will eliminate any mag issue and help diagnose the problem. Plus they are great mags and stand up better over time than the other 1911 garbage mags. Few posts down I mention I was using CMC Power Mags. Guesa, when I buy some new springs I'll pick up a few WC mags. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/15/2021 4:03:43 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Could be the feed ramp, maybe the magazine, maybe the ammo. The extractor can be frustrating sometimes to tune just right also. Does it feed ok without the extractor? Take it apart and put the barrel on and load a mag and see how the round lines up with the chamber. @GunDisaster I took the gun apart, stuck the barrel back on the frame put a loaded mag in it and tried to get a good pic of how it lines up.  Attached FileI'm not seeing anything out of the ordinary. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2021 1:40:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @GunDisaster I took the gun apart, stuck the barrel back on the frame put a loaded mag in it and tried to get a good pic of how it lines up. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/417902/PXL_20210915_194240862_2_jpg-2091922.JPG I'm not seeing anything out of the ordinary. Quote HistoryQuoted: @GunDisaster I took the gun apart, stuck the barrel back on the frame put a loaded mag in it and tried to get a good pic of how it lines up. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/417902/PXL_20210915_194240862_2_jpg-2091922.JPG I'm not seeing anything out of the ordinary. It is usually one of two things. Your extractor might need a slight bevel to allow the case to slip up.   The other issue is a 3-point jam. If it isn't the extractor then I would get one number SHORTER link. This keeps the barrel from tilting when the bullet tries to enter the barrel. As the cartridge strips from the magazine and strikes the barrel throat, it pushes the barrel forward. Due to the tilting-barrel design, when the barrel moves forward...it also moves upward. If the barrel is correctly fitted, this upward movement is provided by the front radius of the barrel being cammed up by the slidestop pin, and the rise is gradual. Want to feel your pistol feed more smoothly than you ever imagined that it could? Load 3 or 4 rounds in a magazine...lock the slide to the rear... push the muzzle against the edge of a table, and ride the slide forward... not in slow-motion...but not at full speed either. You won't feel a bump... no hesitation...no stem bind as the round chambers. None. 3 Point Jam |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2021 2:32:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:It is usually one of two things. Your extractor might need a slight bevel to allow the case to slip up. Quote HistoryQuoted:It is usually one of two things. Your extractor might need a slight bevel to allow the case to slip up. The other issue is a 3-point jam. If it isn't the extractor then I would get one number SHORTER link. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2021 2:47:19 PM EDT
[#20]
What Steve says is true about the barrel link. If you 'magic marker' the lugs and can tell where the wear is, that might help you as well.
What made you pick the size link that you did? eta, keep in mind, we're only saying it's something to look at. You want to learn all this stuff anyway. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2021 3:14:36 PM EDT
[#21]
I readjusted the extractor and beveled the edges based on the tutorials posted. I also ran a bunch of dummy rounds through it and it seems to have helped but I won't officially know until I get it back to the range. I also ordered a 16 pound main spring and a 16 pound recoil spring from Wolff just in case.
As for the barrel link I installed a standard .278" link. I bought three different size links from Wilson Combat and took measurements and test fit each one. The .278" link was what fit and allowed the barrel to lockup the others didn't. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2021 6:21:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Good luck.
Let us know how it goes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2021 6:27:30 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good luck. Let us know how it goes. Will do. I appreciate the help. Putting a 1911 together is not like putting an AR together. I still want to build another 1911 but PSA needs to get more frames in. And I need to figure this first one out first. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2021 8:08:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Will do. I appreciate the help. Putting a 1911 together is not like putting an AR together. I still want to build another 1911 but PSA needs to get more frames in. And I need to figure this first one out first. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2021 8:30:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually, I'm a bit surprised you didn't have any trouble fitting the thumb safety. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Will do. I appreciate the help. Putting a 1911 together is not like putting an AR together. I still want to build another 1911 but PSA needs to get more frames in. And I need to figure this first one out first. I did. I ruined one and had to buy a second one and refit it. You know what really helped? The Jerry Kuhnhausen manuals. They are chock full of information. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2021 9:36:11 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I did. I ruined one and had to buy a second one and refit it. You know what really helped? The Jerry Kuhnhausen manuals. They are chock full of information. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Will do. I appreciate the help. Putting a 1911 together is not like putting an AR together. I still want to build another 1911 but PSA needs to get more frames in. And I need to figure this first one out first. I did. I ruined one and had to buy a second one and refit it. You know what really helped? The Jerry Kuhnhausen manuals. They are chock full of information.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2021 9:47:59 PM EDT
[#27]
Spring timing issue either your recoil spring or mags. Also stainless controls on a black gun. ??????????
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2021 7:35:16 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Spring timing issue either your recoil spring or mags. Also stainless controls on a black gun. ?????????? What's wrong with stainless?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2021 7:53:35 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's wrong with stainless? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Spring timing issue either your recoil spring or mags. Also stainless controls on a black gun. ?????????? What's wrong with stainless? Looks weird. Like the gun is wearing jewelry to me |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2021 7:58:30 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Try new magazines or stronger magazine springs. I tried this with my NIB 1911 tanker. Got two new mags with the factory. Ball ammo feeds all day long. Hollow point defense ammo nose dives and jams if I put more than 2 or 3 rounds in the mag. Ordered heavy duty springs, a set of three. Original springs were 8 or so inches long. Replacement is close to 18 inches. There is no way to stuff all that spring in the mag (I’ve tried ). Am I supposed to cut the spring down and if so, how much?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2021 8:07:59 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I readjusted the extractor and beveled the edges based on the tutorials posted. I also ran a bunch of dummy rounds through it and it seems to have helped but I won't officially know until I get it back to the range. I also ordered a 16 pound main spring and a 16 pound recoil spring from Wolff just in case. A lighter mainspring may give you a lighter trigger pull and allow you to cycle / pull the slide back easier -- but then the slide will have less work to do (needing less force to overcome the spring's resistance to cock the hammer) during the firing cycle and move to the rear faster (since less energy is used-dissipated compressing the mainspring). You want to keep slide velocity balanced so it doesn't cycle faster than your magazine spring can push the top round in the column into position in the feedway. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2021 8:38:39 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I tried this with my NIB 1911 tanker. Got two new mags with the factory. Ball ammo feeds all day long. Hollow point defense ammo nose dives and jams if I put more than 2 or 3 rounds in the mag. Ordered heavy duty springs, a set of three. Original springs were 8 or so inches long. Replacement is close to 18 inches. There is no way to stuff all that spring in the mag (I've tried ). Am I supposed to cut the spring down and if so, how much? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2021 8:42:38 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why a 16-pound mainspring? Stock is 22-23 pounds. Do you plan on only shooting light loads? A lighter mainspring may give you a lighter trigger pull and allow you to cycle / pull the slide back easier -- but then the slide will have less work to do (needing less force to overcome the spring's resistance to cock the hammer) during the firing cycle and move to the rear faster (since less energy is used-dissipated compressing the mainspring). You want to keep slide velocity balanced so it doesn't cycle faster than your magazine spring can push the top round in the column into position in the feedway. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I readjusted the extractor and beveled the edges based on the tutorials posted. I also ran a bunch of dummy rounds through it and it seems to have helped but I won't officially know until I get it back to the range. I also ordered a 16 pound main spring and a 16 pound recoil spring from Wolff just in case. A lighter mainspring may give you a lighter trigger pull and allow you to cycle / pull the slide back easier -- but then the slide will have less work to do (needing less force to overcome the spring's resistance to cock the hammer) during the firing cycle and move to the rear faster (since less energy is used-dissipated compressing the mainspring). You want to keep slide velocity balanced so it doesn't cycle faster than your magazine spring can push the top round in the column into position in the feedway. You're right. Also meaning more kick and faster wear... Less reliable. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2021 9:09:30 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why a 16-pound mainspring? Stock is 22-23 pounds. Do you plan on only shooting light loads? A lighter mainspring may give you a lighter trigger pull and allow you to cycle / pull the slide back easier -- but then the slide will have less work to do (needing less force to overcome the spring's resistance to cock the hammer) during the firing cycle and move to the rear faster (since less energy is used-dissipated compressing the mainspring). You want to keep slide velocity balanced so it doesn't cycle faster than your magazine spring can push the top round in the column into position in the feedway. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I readjusted the extractor and beveled the edges based on the tutorials posted. I also ran a bunch of dummy rounds through it and it seems to have helped but I won't officially know until I get it back to the range. I also ordered a 16 pound main spring and a 16 pound recoil spring from Wolff just in case. A lighter mainspring may give you a lighter trigger pull and allow you to cycle / pull the slide back easier -- but then the slide will have less work to do (needing less force to overcome the spring's resistance to cock the hammer) during the firing cycle and move to the rear faster (since less energy is used-dissipated compressing the mainspring). You want to keep slide velocity balanced so it doesn't cycle faster than your magazine spring can push the top round in the column into position in the feedway. Unless I'm an idiot and read it wrong it was suggested in this thread to try a lighter main spring and lighter recoil spring. So now you're suggesting what? Heavier mag springs? Right now, I'm not changing any springs after adjusting the extractor. I'm going to see what it does first. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2021 9:24:51 AM EDT
[#35]
Good plan. The Kuhnhausen books are great references and insight into the design and how it works, in balance.
Many still deride the fact the 1911 was mass-produced but hand-fitted -- yet the US military received weapons from multiple manufacturers (Colt, Ithaca, Remington-Rand, Union Switch and Signal, etc.) with inter-changeable parts, to where one of the trademarks of genuine military 45s is parts mis-match -- and yet they still function, to this day. So, OP, you've built a good and pretty base pistol. Get it to work in proper timing and harmony before customizing. Base parts and springs should get you where you want for functioning with your ammo and magazines before cosmetics and individual preference-fit and vanity. In other words, it's more important for it to shoot and cycle correctly before detailing trim, paint, and upholstery. Your build isn't finished until it works. I want a boring service pistol. How so? It should go through all 8 steps in the cycle of operation, every time I squeeze the trigger. I shouldn't need to tap-rack-bang. It should go bang and shoot all other 999 rounds in the case into a general soft-ball size group to 50 yards. Clean, oil, repeat -- tomorrow, next week, next month, next year, or once I remove it from war storage. Boring. I'm assuming you fitted the barrel. Did you check your "Roll over" point where the bullet and cartridge feed into the chamber once the round clears magazine feed lips? Is that juncture at the top of the barrel feed ramp and throat smoothed, or sharp and un-broken? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2021 10:04:46 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Unless I'm an idiot and read it wrong it was suggested in this thread to try a lighter main spring and lighter recoil spring. So now you're suggesting what? Heavier mag springs? Quote HistoryQuoted:Unless I'm an idiot and read it wrong it was suggested in this thread to try a lighter main spring and lighter recoil spring. So now you're suggesting what? Heavier mag springs? As an example, I have a tightly fit 5" 9x23 complete with Acc-u-rails that runs like a sewing machine. I fit a 9mm barrel to it and had to use a 10lb recoil spring, a 16lb mainspring, and a radically profiled firing pin stop to get the slide to move fully to the rear. This was due to all the resistance to that movement imposed by the tight fit as well as the anemic factory 115gr ammo. A 5" .45 should run perfectly well with any standard pressure factory ammo using a 23lb mainspring, a 16lb recoil spring, and a standard profile firing pin stop. My SOP is to use a 14lb recoil spring but I fit a flat bottom firing pin stop to make up for the loss of resistance to slide movement incurred by using the lighter than standard recoil spring thus balance the system. Limp wristing is another variable in the balancing equation that may require a different combination of spring weights and firing pin stop geometry. It may require using a 14lb recoil spring, an 18lb mainspring, and a standard shape firing pin stop. The exact combination of spring weights cannot be predicted ahead of time. Start with an established baseline of 16lb recoil spring, 23lb mainspring, and standard shape firing pin stop. Live firing will indicate if modifications to the baseline are necessary. Right now, I'm not changing any springs after adjusting the extractor. I'm going to see what it does first. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2021 10:20:11 AM EDT
[#37]
Double tap.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2021 10:23:35 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your read it right. But the context of my remarks was how to eliminate "limp wristing" through modifications to the pistol. As Sinister correctly points out, the pistol's springs need to be balanced for optimal functioning. That means if you decrease the strength of the recoil spring, you'll want to increase the strength of the mainspring to compensate. The exact strength of each spring depends on the power of the ammo being used as well as the amount of resistance to slide movement applied due to the fitting of the various internal parts. As an example, I have a tightly fit 5" 9x23 complete with Acc-u-rails that runs like a sewing machine. I fit a 9mm barrel to it and had to use a 10lb recoil spring, a 16lb mainspring, and a radically profiled firing pin stop to get the slide to move fully to the rear. This was due to all the resistance to that movement imposed by the tight fit as well as the anemic factory 115gr ammo. A 5" .45 should run perfectly well with any standard pressure factory ammo using a 23lb mainspring, a 16lb recoil spring, and a standard profile firing pin stop. My SOP is to use a 14lb recoil spring but I fit a flat bottom firing pin stop to make up for the loss of resistance to slide movement incurred by using the lighter than standard recoil spring thus balance the system. Limp wristing is another variable in the balancing equation that may require a different combination of spring weights and firing pin stop geometry. It may require using a 14lb recoil spring, an 18lb mainspring, and a standard shape firing pin stop. The exact combination of spring weights cannot be predicted ahead of time. Start with an established baseline of 16lb recoil spring, 23lb mainspring, and standard shape firing pin stop. Live firing will indicate if modifications to the baseline are necessary. A wise way to go about things. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:Unless I'm an idiot and read it wrong it was suggested in this thread to try a lighter main spring and lighter recoil spring. So now you're suggesting what? Heavier mag springs? As an example, I have a tightly fit 5" 9x23 complete with Acc-u-rails that runs like a sewing machine. I fit a 9mm barrel to it and had to use a 10lb recoil spring, a 16lb mainspring, and a radically profiled firing pin stop to get the slide to move fully to the rear. This was due to all the resistance to that movement imposed by the tight fit as well as the anemic factory 115gr ammo. A 5" .45 should run perfectly well with any standard pressure factory ammo using a 23lb mainspring, a 16lb recoil spring, and a standard profile firing pin stop. My SOP is to use a 14lb recoil spring but I fit a flat bottom firing pin stop to make up for the loss of resistance to slide movement incurred by using the lighter than standard recoil spring thus balance the system. Limp wristing is another variable in the balancing equation that may require a different combination of spring weights and firing pin stop geometry. It may require using a 14lb recoil spring, an 18lb mainspring, and a standard shape firing pin stop. The exact combination of spring weights cannot be predicted ahead of time. Start with an established baseline of 16lb recoil spring, 23lb mainspring, and standard shape firing pin stop. Live firing will indicate if modifications to the baseline are necessary. Right now, I'm not changing any springs after adjusting the extractor. I'm going to see what it does first. So, I'm not entirely sure what spring weights the RIA kit came with. I'm using whatever recoil and main spring the kit came with. I've seen a lots conflicting information. I've seen some people say they come with 18/18, 16/16, 16/20 so I'm not sure. Maybe what I'll do after my next range trip if it doesn't work is order a 23 pound main spring and install the 16 pound recoil spring I just ordered from Wolff. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2021 10:30:07 AM EDT
[#39]
Good idea -- that way you start from a known point.
You can't get to where you want to be unless you know where you are now, and what you have in-hand. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2021 10:57:45 AM EDT
[#40]
Tagged to see what fixes this.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2021 11:28:21 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good plan. The Kuhnhausen books are great references and insight into the design and how it works, in balance. Many still deride the fact the 1911 was mass-produced but hand-fitted -- yet the US military received weapons from multiple manufacturers (Colt, Ithaca, Remington-Rand, Union Switch and Signal, etc.) with inter-changeable parts, to where one of the trademarks of genuine military 45s is parts mis-match -- and yet they still function, to this day. So, OP, you've built a good and pretty base pistol. Get it to work in proper timing and harmony before customizing. Base parts and springs should get you where you want for functioning with your ammo and magazines before cosmetics and individual preference-fit and vanity. In other words, it's more important for it to shoot and cycle correctly before detailing trim, paint, and upholstery. Your build isn't finished until it works. I want a boring service pistol. How so? It should go through all 8 steps in the cycle of operation, every time I squeeze the trigger. I shouldn't need to tap-rack-bang. It should go bang and shoot all other 999 rounds in the case into a general soft-ball size group to 50 yards. Clean, oil, repeat -- tomorrow, next week, next month, next year, or once I remove it from war storage. Boring. I'm assuming you fitted the barrel. Did you check your "Roll over" point where the bullet and cartridge feed into the chamber once the round clears magazine feed lips? Is that juncture at the top of the barrel feed ramp and throat smoothed or sharp and un-broken? Many 1911 enthusiasts don't realize this. A big part of todays problems revolve around tighter tolerances. Virtually all magazines from reputable manuf. should work. Springs weren't replaced after a few thousand rounds... Many years ago I knew someone that professed to be able to make virtually any 1911, 99.9% reliable. He made a good bit of beer money doing this. The trade-off seems to be tolerances (accuracy). |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/20/2021 3:00:13 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well said, Many 1911 enthusiasts don't realize this. A big part of todays problems revolve around tighter Many years ago I knew someone that professed to be able to make virtually any 1911, 99.9% reliable. He made a good bit of beer money doing this. The trade-off seems to be tolerances (accuracy). you can have ±.00001 tolerances, but have a hotdog in a hallway fit of parts. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/20/2021 5:29:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you can have .00001 tolerances, but have a hotdog in a hallway fit of parts. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well said, Many 1911 enthusiasts don't realize this. A big part of todays problems revolve around tighter Many years ago I knew someone that professed to be able to make virtually any 1911, 99.9% reliable. He made a good bit of beer money doing this. The trade-off seems to be tolerances (accuracy). you can have .00001 tolerances, but have a hotdog in a hallway fit of parts. What am I missing? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/20/2021 9:22:24 PM EDT
[#44]
Lots of good information and advice in this thread. When I read the original post and try to think of causes for that kind of feeding problem, my thoughts go directly to:
* proper extractor tension * radius and polish the bottom of the extractor * polish the breechface of the slide These three things and a quality magazine is where I would start, assuming standard weight springs and a factory firing pin stop are being used. Good luck with it, and I hope you get it running like a Kenyan in a marathon. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2021 9:56:41 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good plan. The Kuhnhausen books are great references and insight into the design and how it works, in balance. Many still deride the fact the 1911 was mass-produced but hand-fitted -- yet the US military received weapons from multiple manufacturers (Colt, Ithaca, Remington-Rand, Union Switch and Signal, etc.) with inter-changeable parts, to where one of the trademarks of genuine military 45s is parts mis-match -- and yet they still function, to this day. So, OP, you've built a good and pretty base pistol. Get it to work in proper timing and harmony before customizing. Base parts and springs should get you where you want for functioning with your ammo and magazines before cosmetics and individual preference-fit and vanity. In other words, it's more important for it to shoot and cycle correctly before detailing trim, paint, and upholstery. Your build isn't finished until it works. I want a boring service pistol. How so? It should go through all 8 steps in the cycle of operation, every time I squeeze the trigger. I shouldn't need to tap-rack-bang. It should go bang and shoot all other 999 rounds in the case into a general soft-ball size group to 50 yards. Clean, oil, repeat -- tomorrow, next week, next month, next year, or once I remove it from war storage. Boring. I'm assuming you fitted the barrel. Did you check your "Roll over" point where the bullet and cartridge feed into the chamber once the round clears magazine feed lips? Is that juncture at the top of the barrel feed ramp and throat smoothed, or sharp and un-broken? And you can use the strategy of builds with GI parts today to have a much easier time of having a reliable 1911. But, they tend to end up looking like 1911A1s  . Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2021 9:57:31 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure what you're trying to say, but I meant tolerance. A hotdog in a hallway would mean a pretty big tolerance when it came to a fit, don't you think? That hotdog doesn't have a .000001 tolerance unless you're talking in miles. Clearance/tolerance, same idea. Tolerance is an engineering term. What am I missing? tolerance is the control on the size of the part or hole location etc . clearance is the gap between parts. I can have large large tolerances on parts and tight clearances, just as i can have small tolerances on the parts and interference fits or fits that drop in. hot dog (±.003" tolerance) in a hallway(±6" tolerance) is a pretty big clearance. while the hotdog is controlled with a "tight" tolerance compared to the hallway. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2021 1:20:07 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: tolerance is the control on the size of the part or hole location etc . clearance is the gap between parts. I can have large large tolerances on parts and tight clearances, just as i can have small tolerances on the parts and interference fits or fits that drop in. hot dog (.003" tolerance) in a hallway(6" tolerance) is a pretty big clearance. while the hotdog is controlled with a "tight" tolerance compared to the hallway. Clearance isn't generally a term used in lug or slide rail fit... At least not in these parts. OP, sorry to get this derailed. Let us know how it goes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2021 4:39:08 PM EDT
[#48]
Yeah it is kind of a clip vs magazine thing.
one is incorrect but everyone knows what you are saying. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2021 5:07:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah it is kind of a clip vs magazine thing. one is incorrect but everyone knows what you are saying. "Stated simply, CLEARANCE is the distance between the adjacent surfaces of mating parts (how much the mating parts CLEAR each other), while TOLERANCE is the allowable variation of a dimension from its nominal (desired) value ( the amount of error one will TOLERATE )." eta, "Tolerance is the allowance made for departure from clearances". |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2021 9:48:17 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah it is kind of a clip vs magazine thing. one is incorrect but everyone knows what you are saying. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
