User Panel
Posted: 12/12/2009 8:16:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: max229]
I’ve had a handful of e-mails asking how to tell if a used Sig is still in good shape or not. After writing the same e-mail over and over for the last five years, I figured it was time to post my thoughts on what to look at when you’re going to purchase a used Sig Sauer pistol.
The first thing to look at is the frame rails. The rails will tell you everything that you need to know about how well the gun has been taken care of. The following is how the colors of the under side of the frame rails will change as your gun wears.
The next thing to look at is the disconnector tab on your trigger bar. That’s the part of the trigger bar that sits up highest in the frame. A factory new trigger bar will have a nice radius across the top, a heavily used one will have a flat worn into it. The best way to check and make sure it’s still functioning correctly is to pull the slide back by one-quarter of an inch and pull the trigger, if the hammer doesn’t try to fall you’re OK. The next place to look at is the barrel. You will notice the “smileys” on the barrel on the muzzle end. If you run your finger down the barrel and feel a dip, you may want to have the gun looked at by a professional, the slide should not be abrading the barrel enough to remove any metal at all. The presence of a dip in the metal would indicate that your slide has a burr in it. If you look at the front of the chamber section at the top of the barrel you will see a ledge that steps down just before the tube part of the barrel starts. The ledge there should be at a clear 90 degree angle, any rolling of that sharp corner would indicate a soft barrel or one which hasn’t been lubricated properly. The slide should also be inspected. The slide lock lever detent on the slide should be looked at for burrs or any rounding on the rear or the notch. A burr sticking out can abrade your thumbs if you shoot a thumbs forward grip. A burr on the slide could indicate a slightly soft slide or that the previous shooter kept their thumb on the slide lock lever. A rounded off notch at the back would indicate an improper heat treat of the slide. ETA: LINK |
|
|
Good information here.
|
|
|
Thanks for the information.
I have done or looked at many of these suggestions on used sigs, but the thing I find most often is while all the points you mentioned are covered, I find many used sigs are really loose fitting between the slide and frame rails. Side to side mostly, not up and down so much. Literally to the point of 'rattling' even with light shaking of the gun in hand. Yet the barrel lock up is tight, and all other indicators show it is gtg.. The few I've bought even in this loose condition function reliably, show no more appreciable wear, and hold good groups.. Just wonder why they are so much looser than other used semi auto pistols.. It's apparently more annoying than problematic, but it does 'rattle' me a bit.. |
|
|
Hmm... I've got a burr on my slide that needed to be stoned off. Should I be concerned or end it back to Sig? It's a P228R. I'm a lefty, so I wasn't riding the slide stop. This happened within 900 rounds.
|
|
Stops Jihad on Contact
|
Originally Posted By WilsonCQB1911:
Hmm... I've got a burr on my slide that needed to be stoned off. Should I be concerned or end it back to Sig? It's a P228R. I'm a lefty, so I wasn't riding the slide stop. This happened within 900 rounds. How bad is the burr? Where is it? You can goto a Harbor Freight store and get a set of jewelers files and remove the burr. |
|
Hansan: "This is a .30 caliber, gas operated, clip fed, semi-automatic rifle....."
Soldier: "Look, you ain't sellin it to me, you're only showing me how it works." |
Originally Posted By max229:
I’ve had a handful of e-mails asking how to tell if a used Sig is still in good shape or not. After writing the same e-mail over and over for the last five years, I figured it was time to post my thoughts on what to look at when you’re going to purchase a used Sig Sauer pistol. The first thing to look at is the frame rails. The rails will tell you everything that you need to know about how well the gun has been taken care of. The following is how the colors of the under side of the frame rails will change as your gun wears.
The next thing to look at is the disconnector tab on your trigger bar. That’s the part of the trigger bar that sits up highest in the frame. A factory new trigger bar will have a nice radius across the top, a heavily used one will have a flat worn into it. The best way to check and make sure it’s still functioning correctly is to pull the slide back by one-quarter of an inch and pull the trigger, if the hammer doesn’t try to fall you’re OK. The next place to look at is the barrel. You will notice the “smileys” on the barrel on the muzzle end. If you run your finger down the barrel and feel a dip, you may want to have the gun looked at by a professional, the slide should not be abrading the barrel enough to remove any metal at all. The presence of a dip in the metal would indicate that your slide has a burr in it. If you look at the front of the chamber section at the top of the barrel you will see a ledge that steps down just before the tube part of the barrel starts. The ledge there should be at a clear 90 degree angle, any rolling of that sharp corner would indicate a soft barrel or one which hasn’t been lubricated properly. The slide should also be inspected. The slide lock lever detent on the slide should be looked at for burrs or any rounding on the rear or the notch. A burr sticking out can abrade your thumbs if you shoot a thumbs forward grip. A burr on the slide could indicate a slightly soft slide or that the previous shooter kept their thumb on the slide lock lever. A rounded off notch at the back would indicate an improper heat treat of the slide. ETA: LINK Good info.. |
|
Hansan: "This is a .30 caliber, gas operated, clip fed, semi-automatic rifle....."
Soldier: "Look, you ain't sellin it to me, you're only showing me how it works." |
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Ben Franklin
|
eta, there is no rattle and they still feel snug as a bug, and it fires flawlessly... only my crappy shooting screws it up
|
|
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Ben Franklin
|
Originally Posted By ctdemolay0405:
so, by this thread, my pistol might be in serious trouble? http://www.larawdesigns.com/KenGun.jpg its silver up top of the frame rails by the hammer, not quite shiny, not quite dull. also a lot of wear on the rails by the muzzle of the weapon its been this way ever since the first few hundred rounds, and i liberally lube and clean it. So it got to that point of war and stopped? I would say as long as you lube it you should be ok. If that was mine, I would buy some Norrell's molyresin and refinish it or contact someone like CCR refinshing and have it done. Then just keep doing what you have been doing and keep it lubed. Too bad we are not local, I would refinish it in Norrell's flat black for you, for nothing. |
|
Hansan: "This is a .30 caliber, gas operated, clip fed, semi-automatic rifle....."
Soldier: "Look, you ain't sellin it to me, you're only showing me how it works." |
What would be the point of coating it only to have it wear off again? Is clean and lube not good enough?
|
|
"Of the Troops, For the Troops"
31B5M |
i was researching on the sig forums after i posted the pic, and they all seem to think that this isnt much of a big deal, yes its worn, but if you keep it lubed and clean, and it doesnt crack or rust or anything else, it shouldn't be a problem.
|
|
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Ben Franklin
|
Originally Posted By scottrh2:
What would be the point of coating it only to have it wear off again? Is clean and lube not good enough? Taken from Norrell's website- Moly Resin™ is a product trademark of John Norrell Inc. These finishes are specifically formulated from a phenolic resin base and molybdenum disulfide (a superior lubricant) with an exclusive blend of additives only available through Norrell Manufacturing. Our additives create a phenolic coating that is hard,durable, and extremely chemical and heat resistant.Our special low temperature catalyst will cause the Resin to harden and bond to the surface to form a barrier to acids, oils, paint removers, powder solvents, bore cleaners and other strong industrial solvents. The low curing temperature prevents possible heat damage to parts during the curing process. We select our phenolic base stocks from hundreds offered by Dow Corning and 3M. The combination of the most suitable base stock, our additives, and molybdenum creates a truly unique coating that represents state-of-the-art technology. No other thermally cured firearm finish available on the market today has the same characteristics and properties that Moly Resin™ offers the professional gunsmith or home hobbyist. Moly Resin™ is a coating developed for ordnance usage on equipment and weapons, providing excellent corrosion protection, abrasion resistance and lubricity to meet automatic weapon dry firing requirements after 60 days seawater immersion. Available ready to apply. No thinning or dilution is needed. Moly Resin™ will adhere to all properly prepared metal surfaces including the following: aluminum, carbon steel, stainless steel, cast iron, titanium, copper and silver solder joints. Note: Blued, anodized, nickel and chrome plated surfaces may not allow the best adhesion and may need to be abrasive blasted to allow the best adhesion of the Resin. Parkerizing is an excellent metal prep for Moly Resin. For all metals, best overall results are achieved on freshly airblasted (with alumunum oxide) surfaces. Moly Resin™ is available in the following twelve standard colors but other colors may be special ordered. A note about the difference between a typical paint and coatings like Moly Resin. A typical paint is a formulation of pigments and other ingredients diluted with a solvent. When the solvent evaporates, the pigments harden and that hard residue is what is referred to as paint. Unfortunately, paint is susceptable and damaged easily and removed by many, if not most chemical solvents, acids, gun cleaners, bore cleaners, etc. A coating like Moly Resin thermally cured or air cure coatings are actual a complex mix of phenolics, polymers, etc. that are highly reactive to each other but kept from reacting by a catalyst mixed into the coating formula. The catalyst is activated by heat at a certain temperature or by oxygen as in the Air Dry Moly product. Once the catalyst is activated, a chemical reaction occurs between the various chemical to form a totally new substance. The new substance formed becomes very hard and resistant to the original solvents used to dissolve the original phenolics and other base resins, etc. This is why Moly Resin is not considered to be a paint. I have used Moly resin on several used Sigs, some that had the same wear that ctdemolay0405 pics showed. One, a P229, the finish has not worn away in those areas in over 6000 rounds. It has also held up very well to carry, and presentations from a holster. Refinishing it protects that area from further wear and even if it does wear, it leaves behind the molybdenum disulfide. I cannot comment on other finishes, only Norrell's, which I have now been using for nearly 5 years. |
|
Hansan: "This is a .30 caliber, gas operated, clip fed, semi-automatic rifle....."
Soldier: "Look, you ain't sellin it to me, you're only showing me how it works." |
Grandpa's First, if we don't go kamikaze who will?
MN, USA
|
Originally Posted By ctdemolay0405:
so, by this thread, my pistol might be in serious trouble? http://www.larawdesigns.com/KenGun.jpg its silver up top of the frame rails by the hammer, not quite shiny, not quite dull. also a lot of wear on the rails by the muzzle of the weapon its been this way ever since the first few hundred rounds, and i liberally lube and clean it. My picture doesn't show it, but the wear on my Sig is almost identical to yours. I would bet that this is the case with most, I wouldn't sweat it at all. GM |
Proud father of enemy ass-kicker and destroyer of evil.
No medicine anymore: Just busy mice doing busy mouse things. |
wow, that is really close
|
|
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Ben Franklin
|
What does the underside portion of the frame rail look like? It is my understanding that this is where the article is pointing out to check.
|
|
|
Bump
|
|
Increasing the entropy of ARFCOM, one post at a time.
|
Originally Posted By goodmedicine: My picture doesn't show it, but the wear on my Sig is almost identical to yours. I would bet that this is the case with most, I wouldn't sweat it at all. http://fuserservices.com/Sigwear.JPG GM My 229 looks the same as those two. It's about a year old. Somewhere between 500-1000 rounds through it I would guess? |
|
|
Originally Posted By Viper1357:
Thanks for the information. I have done or looked at many of these suggestions on used sigs, but the thing I find most often is while all the points you mentioned are covered, I find many used sigs are really loose fitting between the slide and frame rails. Side to side mostly, not up and down so much. Literally to the point of 'rattling' even with light shaking of the gun in hand. Yet the barrel lock up is tight, and all other indicators show it is gtg.. The few I've bought even in this loose condition function reliably, show no more appreciable wear, and hold good groups.. Just wonder why they are so much looser than other used semi auto pistols.. It's apparently more annoying than problematic, but it does 'rattle' me a bit.. Yes, I believe a good shake is in order for any potential used pistol buy. Bought one and didn't realize until I got it home that it was a rattler. Oh, well. Shoots good. |
|
|
Originally Posted By smoketheresfire:
Originally Posted By Viper1357:
Thanks for the information. I have done or looked at many of these suggestions on used sigs, but the thing I find most often is while all the points you mentioned are covered, I find many used sigs are really loose fitting between the slide and frame rails. Side to side mostly, not up and down so much. Literally to the point of 'rattling' even with light shaking of the gun in hand. Yet the barrel lock up is tight, and all other indicators show it is gtg.. The few I've bought even in this loose condition function reliably, show no more appreciable wear, and hold good groups.. Just wonder why they are so much looser than other used semi auto pistols.. It's apparently more annoying than problematic, but it does 'rattle' me a bit.. Yes, I believe a good shake is in order for any potential used pistol buy. Bought one and didn't realize until I got it home that it was a rattler. Oh, well. Shoots good. I had a used Sig P226 once that sounded like a baby rattle, yet was very accurate. |
|
Hansan: "This is a .30 caliber, gas operated, clip fed, semi-automatic rifle....."
Soldier: "Look, you ain't sellin it to me, you're only showing me how it works." |
Originally Posted By Bronc:
What does the underside portion of the frame rail look like? It is my understanding that this is where the article is pointing out to check. An excellent, yet overlooked point. Once again proving the importance of pics and arrows in informative threads. I imagine it's the part of the rails you'd look at when holding the frame with the magwell facing you. My rails are shiny black on the undersides, but have some shiny silver on the tops and sides. About three months ago I replaced all of the springs and the breachblock pins, so I guess that means the gun will outlast me. |
|
|
Originally Posted By Bronc:
What does the underside portion of the frame rail look like? It is my understanding that this is where the article is pointing out to check. Bronc is right, that is the key question. Wear on the top and sides is not really a big deal. It is the area underneath the rails that you need to watch. A good grease will really help to prevent wear there. |
|
|
Bump
|
|
Increasing the entropy of ARFCOM, one post at a time.
|
tacked
|
|
Hansan: "This is a .30 caliber, gas operated, clip fed, semi-automatic rifle....."
Soldier: "Look, you ain't sellin it to me, you're only showing me how it works." |
Thanks for the tack.
I've got a P239 in 9mm that rattles like an empty spray paint can when you shake her, but she's a shooter. Max, as usual, thanks for the good info. |
|
|
Originally Posted By goldtop:
Thanks for the tack. I've got a P239 in 9mm that rattles like an empty spray paint can when you shake her, but she's a shooter. Max, as usual, thanks for the good info. I one Sig that, I swear God, sounded like a full dump truck, going downhill at full speed.....but it was as every bit a shooter like the other ones I had that were tight. |
|
Hansan: "This is a .30 caliber, gas operated, clip fed, semi-automatic rifle....."
Soldier: "Look, you ain't sellin it to me, you're only showing me how it works." |
Originally Posted By cornface:
Originally Posted By goodmedicine:
My picture doesn't show it, but the wear on my Sig is almost identical to yours. I would bet that this is the case with most, I wouldn't sweat it at all. http://fuserservices.com/Sigwear.JPG GM My 229 looks the same as those two. It's about a year old. Somewhere between 500-1000 rounds through it I would guess? I have to say the same on both my 229 and a friends three (yes he has 3) 229's as well. All four of our 229s look like that and all of them are under 1k rounds. I'm not sure how accurate the wear coloring is on this post. |
|
With the save
|
Enough-you can conduct yourself with some decorum here, or your access to this tech forum will be removed-Dog1
|
|
|
|
|
|
Because some people cannot leave the General Discussion mentality in GD.
|
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.