My thoughts on the practicality of single stack M1911s today

Good video (subscribed).

The Kimber Custom was a great gun back in the day.  Picked up a Tisas Duty model last year and it struck me as a similar bargain.

What really drove the popularity of 1911s back in the 90s/early oughts was the AW ban that made it difficult to carry more than 10 rds in a pistol unless you could scrounge up some pre-ban mags.  Made more sense to carry 9 rds of 45acp vs 11rds of 9mm.  

Concealed carry was starting to take off back in those days (we reformed Virginia's CHP in 1995) but it is much more common now.  People prefer carrying lighter more compact pistols for concealed carry.  I carry a generic glock for daily carry as it seems less prone to being dinged up (and who cares if it is dinged) and less likely to be damaged by sweat.  It is also nice to have more rounds available.

At 68, maybe I am set in my ways.  I did finally purchase a small 9mm for comfortable carry.  I would still prefer my 1911 though.  It is .38 Super, so no one can complain about it being slow.  Yes, some 9s can carry twice as many rounds, but they still won't have the excellent trigger of the 1911 style.

Well, I guess if you shoot like shit, then you may need a double stack to have more bullets to kill whoever you’re trying to kill. I have no problem with single stack 1911. Shoot good with a good expanding bullet, you should only need one shot.

If you are extremely familiar and train regularly with your CCW. I think you will be okay, doesn't matter along as the gun is reliable and combat accurate.

I grew up in the 80s and 90s, and really enjoy the 1911. It's a handgun I don't mind using.

I think the big issue with 1911s is that people want all these custom features that puts the price of it to 1k+ range. On top of that, the one thing missing ont he debate is that you can't accessorize the 1911 like you can with a glock. So people are naturally going to go with a glock because it's cheaper and you get to do whatever you want with it.

I’m big into 1911’s.  I always have been.   Then, I got
Into USPSA and I realized how quickly I ’d be out classed by a guy of similar skills as I’ve got whose got a 9mm double stack.  

You can argue with more rounds in tap.   In terms of ballistics, you’re not at a disadvantage shooting modern 9mm jhp.  

I play with 2011’s now.

I agree modern 9mm Hollow point Im pretty comfortable with also.

I love the 1911. Started out with it in the early 1980s. I carried a 1911 into the worst inner city gang hoods in America, by myself, no backup. Places the police don't like to go without a lot of help and some how I managed to survive. With that said I bought a Glock 17 and 19 when they first came out. I also bought an HK USP 45. I still like to carry a 1911 and I'm not afraid because it's low capacity.
Some guys think they're John Wick and going to be in this protracted gunfight, I got news for you.

Solid video OP, I was already subscribed and enjoy your content!

Thanks!

Bookmarking the video for later.
When I got my carry permit back in 2009 I was living in Memphis and I had either a CZ75B or a Springfield Mil Spec at my disposal for carry. I learned a lot about shitty holsters and the importance of a good belt pretty quickly.
That 1911 was the first center fire pistol I owned and I can honestly say I will never not love .45 and the 1911, but in the smattering of competition shooting and my personal carry, I would rather go smaller and lighter with more ammo. But it’s still cool being able to throw an ashtray at someone at 800 fps.

I watched it yesterday.  Didn't know that was you.  

I've been a 1911 fan since the mid 90's.  Shot my first one in 88' with my ex-GF WWII vet Grandpa (USGI version), and Qualified with one during Basic in 90'.  I too had one of the original Kimber Classics that I foolishly got rid of in the late 90's.

I'm sure it's been a while, but do you remember where you got that Long flat trigger for your Commander?  That kind of stood out to me, as I was looking for one yesterday for my Les Baer.

I swore off Kimber for about 20 years due to Q/C issues.  But I recently found this Series I LW for a good price in a local shop.  It seems to be spec'd similar to my old Classic.  Except it's SS and has an alloy frame.  It's ran 100% through the 200+ rounds I've put through it and carry it from time to time.  I don't really perceive much more recoil from it being a LW frame, but it sure carries lighter.

Great vid as always.

It's a shame what Kimber has done to their reputation.  I have a Classic Custom from the late 90s or earlier 2000s and it honestly has a better barrel and frame to slide fit than a lot of the semi-custom guns I see selling for 3-5x the price now.

After carrying Glocks for several years I went back to my roots and carry a 5' 1911 in .45 ACP.

I believe that the 1911 trigger will help me get that all important first shot hit if I ever have to defend myself with it.

However, I am interested in the Platypus after shooting a friend's recently. It was super nice.
Great trigger and 18 or more rounds of 9mm is pretty neat.

There is nothing wrong with carrying a 1911 in any caliber if that works for you. A 1911 in the hands of someone who's put in the time to truly learn how to shoot it is pretty formidable. Gotta consider though what the BG might be bringing to the fight as well. Most likely a high-cap of god only knows what make/caliber/quality. I'd prefer not to be throttled with 8 rounds of .45.

A 1911 is most definitely not a FUDD gun.

@Stukas87, you can definitely run a 1911, nice work.

Would you say your pistol training at Mid South was the best weapons training you've had in your SF career?

LOL. 1911.
A F.U.D.D. gun.

What's the first rule of a gunfight?
Have a gun.
Problem is, you don't KNOW which fight's coming to you. Might NOT be a gunfight.
What if your attacker has a knife?
Yeah, that's still a gunfight. For you. LOL. So solly, knife-guy.
What if your attacker has a stick or another non-traditional weapon like a yard tool?
Gunfight or?
What about the "old reliable" swarming technique? Two or more attackers focus on a single victim.
You gonna shoot an unarmed person?
When would their attempt to simply relieve you of your valuables morph into a situation where the LAW allows you to use deadly force?
Pro tip; check your States laws)
It's nice to have options. All I'm saying.

A sub 3 second Bill Drill is impressive. Six out of eight rounds (7+1) you just used 75 percent of your ammo in the pistol on one guy.
How valuable is a Bill Drill anyway? What bearing does it possibly have to a real world situation?
Well, I'll tell you.

People don't just fall down when you shoot them. Some, not all. They don't explode or spray blood & guts when you hit them with bullet(s). You might not even see the bullets strike. So you shoot until the threat's stopped.
Yeah. You just might bang off six rounds at an attacker before he falls. Or not. Maybe less. Or more.
Still want that eight shooter?

All I'm saying is don't get locked into what the fight will be. It isn't gonna.
The fight will be what IT wants to be.
Best to be ready and prepared.
Only YOU can determine what that is.

Still, the 1911 set up properly is a sweet pistola for fighting. So's a Glock. Or this little S&W 65 3" RB sitting on my desk with Federal 158gr JHPs. That there MF is a sweet-pointin' six-banger that drills the X fast as I can do it hung out or hung over.
But it's only six, Kobolowsky...LOL.
Decisions-Decisions

I always think of this article when someone posts something like this.

https://www.police1.com/officer-shootings/articles/why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job-clGBbLYpnqqHxwMq/

That’s why the Mozambique Drill is real-world practical, and thus actually more relevant than the Bill Drill.  Put two rounds into the upper thoracic, and if that doesn’t incapacitate the attacker, you put a third round into the cranium. 3-rds max, with 4-5 more rounds left in your janky 1911 Fudd stick if there are other attackers to deal with.


It’s always situational  … Anytime you step outside your residence you’re playing the probabilities of risk v. personal safety.

In a civilian/non-L.E. capacity outside the home, where you’re just going about your business, a gun with an 8-10rd capacity, along with one or two extra mags on the belt, should suffice for typical bad-guy encounters.

Home invasions by narco-terrorists or rampaging illegals, or if you’re away from home and get caught up in an ‘L.A. riot’ type event, are obvious exceptions. Another reason to keep a long gun in your vehicle.

Ive been apart of a dozen shootings at least.

Mozambique is indeed harder to pull off under stress.

It takes conscious effort to transition from relatively easy target (torso) to
small hard target (head) even harder if one of you is moving.
Its not a natural thing to do under stress.
That is why in SF driving the threat down with large string of fire to chest
is a primary method what is taught in CQB.

Yes with 8 round mag of 45acp one is limited.

Not saying its impossible for head shot, many have done shots to chest then transition to head in real life.
But its counter intuitive. One naturally wants to pump high volume of fire very fast into threat until there is a visible reaction
bullets are working.  

I think its better to practice good heart and lung zone hits. Of course, practice Mozambique too... but again.
Its hard to pull off under pressure from a real threat.

That has always been my issue with the Mozambique drill.  I haven't BTDT like you and many others, but have seen enough shooting videos to assume the guy isn't just going to pose for a perfect head shot after he's already taken two to the chest.

So if I'm skilled enough to make a head shot on a moving target that is likely firing at me (I'm not) why wouldn't I just start with that?

Magazines are a big factor in 1911 reliability in my experience. I bought multiple Colt magazines from Midway and every single one would consistently malfunction on the second to last round. Weirdly enough, the factory magazines that came in the box with both of my Colts have been absolutely reliable. Those and Wilson Combats are the only ones I trust. I have a couple of cheap Sarco mags that seem to be reliable with ball but choke on hollow points, so they're good for training.

Brigade Gun Leather seems to be in business still and I'll have to check them out. Milt Sparks holsters are really good but it's hard to get anything besides a Summer Special 2 without a long wait time. The Magpul Tejas belt is solid as mentioned.

Your channel really is a hidden gem and it was cool seeing you on 9 Hole Reviews a few months ago. I really enjoy the "history of" videos as well as the old SWAT magazine articles.

And just like that I'm back to carrying a Glock.

Colt Combat Unit wouldn't feed HSTs from any of my assortment of 1911 mags.
Ran 100% on ball of course.

I agree the Mo’ with the head shot takes more ‘precision,’ but that type of shot-placement comes with regular practice. The drill has been around for decades (much longer than the Bill Drill) and was endorsed as real-world effective by Jeff Cooper, Louis Awerbuck and others, so it’s not something new or theoretical.

I’ve gotten pretty fast with it from 7 yards after a lot of years of doing it as part of a shooting session on our Club’s pistol range, and yet most guys on this board probably dwarf my meager skill level.

The Bill Drill is okay but it seems to encourage shooting to slide-lock in a situation where the extra 4-5 rounds fired into the attacker’s upper thoracic are unnecessary. Again, we’re talking about single stack 7+1 or 8+1 guns, with maybe a spare mag or two on the belt.  Some might be 1911s. Others might be, e.g., S&W 3rd Gen 45XX (8+1) or 10XX-series (9+1) guns.  But the wider situational context today could involve two or more attackers.


That’s right. So in my view the Bill Drill encourages the unnecessary expenditure of precious extra rounds in a single-stack pistol.


You’re correct, the Mo requires dedicated practice  …. and once you’ve got it down pat on an FBI Qit 97 target at 7-yds, move back to 10-yds. Then move back to 50-feet.


Moar here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozambique_Drill

+1

The  Bill Drill is done to enhance shooting concepts like calling shots on targets, trigger discipline, timing the shots and front sight focus.

It is a drill among many to practice gun handling skills.

And about the 1911, I think that it is obsolete in the context of military and police aplications, but still has it place for civilian use.

Sorry, but no one ever said they wished they had less rds in a gunfight.

The 1911 is obsolete in the context of military and police applications, but still has it place for civilian use. More rounds in a gunfight is better. But as Clint Smith has said "Any Gun will do if you will do".