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Posted: 11/22/2023 1:13:04 AM EDT
These woulda been Colt 1911a1 guns with the big ol billboard slide engraving, not Remington guns, right?
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Posted: 11/22/2023 1:24:04 AM EDT
[#1]
Could have been Colt, Remington Rand, Ithaca, etc. Standard, National Match slides, Caspian, etc…… Mix matched, whatever the Armorer had on hand when putting it together.
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Posted: 11/22/2023 1:24:58 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By psp6785: Could have been Colt, Remington Rand, Ithaca, etc. Standard, National Match slides, Caspian, etc…… Mix matched, whatever the Armorer had on hand when putting it together. Thank you But that’s not what I was expecting lol |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 1:36:55 AM EDT
[#3]
Remington Rand slide
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Posted: 11/22/2023 8:05:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Dunderway]
[#4]
From what I have read, Delta 1911s of that era would likely have been modified AMU NM guns or full Caspian builds.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 8:51:18 AM EDT
[#5]
From Larry Vickers
  
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Posted: 11/22/2023 9:08:28 AM EDT
[#6]
 Larry Vickers Podcast Ep. 14: Delta 1911 Presented by Firearms Trainers Association |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 10:18:07 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dunderway: From what I have read, Delta 1911s of that era would likely have been modified AMU NM guns or full Caspian builds. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/361327/IMG_0939_png-3035881.JPG When the organization I worked for wanted/needed new pistols, the CAG/CIF/D guys insisted on Caspians because that’s what they previously carried. |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:33:33 AM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:48:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bradpierson26]
[#9]
I really appreciate the knowledge guys
I was walking down the path of the movie and his pistol being a GI 1911a1 Originally Posted By SSeric02: SGM Brad Halling's 1911A1. https://i.imgur.com/oPt8uHV.jpg https://www.instagram.com/p/CcmCDaer4JO/ Thanks! I follow Brad on IG, very interesting pistol |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:56:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SSeric02]
[#10]
NP, I came across that photo and his IG with the notes a month or two ago. I really dig the profile of the vertical cocking serrations on those older Caspian slides.
ETA: That welded on piece of Picatinny rail is something else too! 
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Posted: 11/22/2023 2:38:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bradpierson26: I really appreciate the knowledge guys I was walking down the path of the movie and his pistol being a GI 1911a1 Thanks! I follow Brad on IG, very interesting pistol Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bradpierson26: I really appreciate the knowledge guys I was walking down the path of the movie and his pistol being a GI 1911a1 Originally Posted By SSeric02: SGM Brad Halling's 1911A1. https://i.imgur.com/oPt8uHV.jpg https://www.instagram.com/p/CcmCDaer4JO/ Thanks! I follow Brad on IG, very interesting pistol |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 2:55:41 PM EDT
[#12]
As stated previously most of the time they started out as USGI m1911a1s, modified with National Match parts, basically an Army comp gun. As time and tech progressed more aftermarket parts made their way in.
The pic I posted, base gun was full GI NM, Novak sights, extended controls, magwell and beaver tail grip safety. Later you started seeing the same gun with a bomar/style adjustable sight, Caspian slides (sometimes) and better safeties. Like with anything there’s an era/timeframe to it.  Delta GWOT 1911 were full blown customs  |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 11/22/2023 4:46:54 PM EDT
[#13]
Was there a reason for them wanting to go Bomar/Adjustable on the rear sight? Or was it simply what they had available to them and nothing more?
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Posted: 11/24/2023 8:43:00 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KissMethod17: Was there a reason for them wanting to go Bomar/Adjustable on the rear sight? Or was it simply what they had available to them and nothing more? Bomars were peak performance at the time and what the competition guys were running so that and the ability to tune it was probably it. Late 90s I was running bomars and breaking them about every 6 months they aren’t my favorite |
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Posted: 11/24/2023 1:20:38 PM EDT
[#15]
I believe one of the reasons behind the Bomars was that with how many rounds they were putting through the guns the Novaks were shooting loose.
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Posted: 11/24/2023 7:11:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Joescuba]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jturbo: I believe one of the reasons behind the Bomars was that with how many rounds they were putting through the guns the Novaks were shooting loose. The Novaks never shot loose. The Bomars would break sometimes under heavy use. Regards |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 11/25/2023 1:25:20 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KissMethod17: Was there a reason for them wanting to go Bomar/Adjustable on the rear sight? Or was it simply what they had available to them and nothing more? I assume it has to do with the hostage rescue mission. Being able zero sights for the preferred duty load would be kind of important if its being used to get a CNS on a bad guy covering behind a hostage. I forget where I read it, but I swear an Operator from that timeframe mentioned that a big part was the fact that they often ran comps on their pistols and the comps would have a POI shift as they wore out so the BoMar would allow for adjustment . |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 11/25/2023 11:03:13 AM EDT
[#18]
Have you seen these retro training videos they put out? They show 1911s from time to time during the video and they don't appear to be stock pistols and they appear to have those extended magazines.
 Delta Force Training Video with original AC/DC & Motley Crue soundtrack |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 11/25/2023 11:34:40 AM EDT
[#19]
For the most part, at the tail end of the 1911A1 era, while delta did have a ton of latitude in what they put together and used, they still predominantly built on USGI frames ( colt ,Remington-rand,Ithaca ) the last of which was produced in 1945. They were available, same with the national match bullseye gun parts like the adjustable rear sights.
It would not surprise me if at first they simply started by using USGI competition guns already on hand in storage, then added more ergonomic add ones as they went along |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 11/25/2023 12:01:53 PM EDT
[#20]
Never knew. These are pretty cool variations.
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Posted: 11/25/2023 12:12:55 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 11/25/2023 3:06:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By captain127: For the most part, at the tail end of the 1911A1 era, while delta did have a ton of latitude in what they put together and used, they still predominantly built on USGI frames ( colt ,Remington-rand,Ithaca ) the last of which was produced in 1945. They were available, same with the national match bullseye gun parts like the adjustable rear sights. It would not surprise me if at first they simply started by using USGI competition guns already on hand in storage, then added more ergonomic add ones as they went along |
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Posted: 11/26/2023 2:48:15 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jturbo: I believe one of the reasons behind the Bomars was that with how many rounds they were putting through the guns the Novaks were shooting loose. |
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Posted: 11/26/2023 3:10:33 AM EDT
[#24]
Interesting thread. Thanks for the info
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OH, USA
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Posted: 11/26/2023 1:39:02 PM EDT
[#25]
More modern, but also a good read on the subject:
https://www.1911forum.com/threads/5th-sfg-a-m1911a1s-during-the-gwot-era.1058841/ As an aside, I've seen mentions in older threads about SF groups occasionally adding full length guide rods as part of their customization, but never seen a source or pics. Anyone have any examples of operators running a 1911 with a mod like that? |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 11/26/2023 1:49:00 PM EDT
[#26]
What a cool Era. Great thread!!
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/26/2024 11:10:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: cplnorton3]
[#27]
Sorry to bring up a couple month old thread, but it seems there are several guys on here in the know and this one might bring some interesting discussions.
This was an early Round 3 Range Grade released from the CMP. The one Larry Vickers has also came from the CMP a few months prior to this one. But it is a 1967 USGI RIA NM lower with a Caspian slide and Barsto Barrel. The Barsto barrel has the last four of the serial stamped on it, and is dated 3/94. It has a Ed Brown hammer and beavertail, Videki trigger, and the front strap and MSH were fully checkered to a more aggressive pattern. It also has the Novak competition sights roll pinned in place. The way the Beavertail safety was cut into the frame is one of the best I have ever seen, and the whole pistol seems every single part was expertly hand fit. This is by far one of the most custom M1911's I have ever owned and I have owned quite a few. I'm curious your guys thoughts on this.          |
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Posted: 1/26/2024 11:24:49 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cplnorton3: Sorry to bring up a couple month old thread, but it seems there are several guys on here in the know and this one might bring some interesting discussions. This was an early Round 3 Range Grade released from the CMP. The one Larry Vickers has also came from the CMP a few months prior to this one. But it is a 1967 USGI RIA NM lower with a Caspian slide and Barsto Barrel. The Barsto barrel has the last four of the serial stamped on it, and is dated 3/94. It has a Ed Brown hammer and beavertail, Videki trigger, and the front strap and MSH were fully checkered to a more aggressive pattern. It also has the Novak competition sights roll pinned in place. The way the Beavertail safety was cut into the frame is one of the best I have ever seen, and the whole pistol seems every single part was expertly hand fit. This is by far one of the most custom M1911's I have ever owned and I have owned quite a few. I'm curious your guys thoughts on this. http://i.imgur.com/BV9qNZDl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/5VJmytcl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/looGdC2l.jpg http://i.imgur.com/uMCxWuGl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/nBGLfM5l.jpg http://i.imgur.com/aVqyuhVl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ACqzDVjl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/NGJ26mSl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/6HQ9WrVl.jpg That's a REALLY cool pistol! |
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Posted: 1/26/2024 3:30:03 PM EDT
[#29]
Wow that was a cool find.
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Posted: 1/26/2024 5:07:15 PM EDT
[#30]
I think you won the lottery with that one.
It really deserves its own thread. Hopefully an additional FOIA request can get you more info. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/26/2024 6:12:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dunderway: I think you won the lottery with that one. It really deserves its own thread. Hopefully an additional FOIA request can get you more info. x2 some guys have all the luck |
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Posted: 1/26/2024 6:13:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dunderway: I think you won the lottery with that one. It really deserves its own thread. Hopefully an additional FOIA request can get you more info. 100% |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 1/27/2024 12:14:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: zodtgr8]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dunderway: I think you won the lottery with that one. It really deserves its own thread. Hopefully an additional FOIA request can get you more info. The owner of that gun did a video that details their FOIA at the end considering the earliest unit actually listed was 1998, it may have been in unit service from the early/mid 90s  CMP Round 3 Range Grade M1911A1 Pistol between this gun, the pistols Vickers has documented and the few other photos of Unit operators' pistols it seems a Delta-issued 1911 from that timeframe would have been set up in one of the following combos: Frame: USGI NM or possibly even Caspian that usually had frontstrap checkering and sometimes even undercut trigger guards Slide: National match 7791435 OR Caspian Front Sights: Novak dovetailed and roll-pinned front Rear Sights: Either a GI dovetail Novak Competition sight or a recessed Bo-Mar adjustable Barrels: Kart or Bar-Sto Magwells (if any): Smith & Alexander Grips: Cocobolo checkered stocks and Barnhardt burners seem to be the most common. Other thing seen on Delta pistols were extended controls (mag release, slide stop, thumb safety), and long aluminum triggers (mostly 3 hole videcki style). Less common but seen in some pics/videos are compensators and weapon lights (Surefire 610 and even some bolted 660s/6P lights to frame-welded picatinny rails. One of PatMac's drawings of an Operator does provide a bit of insight as to how a fully decked out pistol would be set up  Some folks have had some really nice repros put together for them: https://www.facebook.com/ValorPrecision/posts/delta-1911-45acpbuilt-this-old-war-machine-on-a-caspian-arms-frameslide-along-wi/5529769823737880/ |
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Posted: 1/27/2024 1:06:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: JSGlock34]
[#34]
The last 1911s were the Springfield Armory Custom Shop (SACS) produced guns using Caspian slides and parts. Vickers details these in his 1911 book (pics below). You can see the SACS markings at the front of the slide. The SACS model number is PC9114. In 2004 they purchased 275 SACS PC9114s. Springfield did make them commercially available afterwards but I don't ever recall seeing any advertised. I have seen owners post pics of their guns though (and one for sale on this board). More recently Pilot Mountain Arms offered a very similar build.
 
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/27/2024 2:14:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: cplnorton3]
[#35]
I actually just acquired the pistol this week. I think like many I watched that youtube video and was like I would love to own that. Well by chance I met the owner through mutual friends and found out he was thinking of letting it go, so I was ecstatic when I was able to acquire it. Now I am hoping to research this more and see if I can add anymore provenance to the pistol.
I did find one thing tearing it apart that he did miss. The Barrel has 3/ 94 electropeniled on it. I am also pretty sure it has wear marks from wearing a Surefire 610. But I'm hoping to acquire one at some point to study and see if the marks are indeed from the 610. The FOIA also has a really interesting connection in it to INSCOM and Ft Belvoir. But I'm hoping to document more. I'm trying to get a copy of the actual DODAAC codes in a FOIA. But yeah this whole thing is just really well done.     The Beavertail is so well fit that when it is engaged I don't think you could even fit a hair in the gap.    Also it looks like it has quite a few Magazine swap scars. I sure wish this stuff could talk.  |
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Posted: 1/27/2024 11:14:58 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cplnorton3: I actually just acquired the pistol this week. I think like many I watched that youtube video and was like I would love to own that. Well by chance I met the owner through mutual friends and found out he was thinking of letting it go, so I was ecstatic when I was able to acquire it. Now I am hoping to research this more and see if I can add anymore provenance to the pistol. I did find one thing tearing it apart that he did miss. The Barrel has 3/ 94 electropeniled on it. I am also pretty sure it has wear marks from wearing a Surefire 610. But I'm hoping to acquire one at some point to study and see if the marks are indeed from the 610. The FOIA also has a really interesting connection in it to INSCOM and Ft Belvoir. But I'm hoping to document more. I'm trying to get a copy of the actual DODAAC codes in a FOIA. But yeah this whole thing is just really well done. http://i.imgur.com/DIW8UdBl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/OrQPkjel.jpg http://i.imgur.com/rkPP4lMl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/QGSBVPSl.jpg The Beavertail is so well fit that when it is engaged I don't think you could even fit a hair in the gap. http://i.imgur.com/PdD4APLl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/qSzs5cAl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/uCFZ16Al.jpg Also it looks like it has quite a few Magazine swap scars. I sure wish this stuff could talk. http://i.imgur.com/IUCYknVl.jpg That's REALLY cool, congratulations on an awesome acquisition! The INSCOM connection might be related to the Intelligence Support Activity, another Army SMU. |
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Posted: 1/27/2024 12:33:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Joescuba]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SSeric02: That's REALLY cool, congratulations on an awesome acquisition! The INSCOM connection might be related to the Intelligence Support Activity, another Army SMU. Yes, it was. I was issued 1972437. Regards |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/27/2024 1:59:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: cplnorton3]
[#38]
I almost wonder if it didn't serve in both SMU's.
In 1998 it was turned over to the Army Criminal Investigation Division (CID) at Lexington KY from INSCOM. It is there from Sept 1998 to Sept 2004. The thing is I cannot find a mention that Lexington ever had a CID Division. All I can find says CID was at Ft Knox and Campbell, but not Lexington. So unless I just haven't found it yet, I really wonder if this correct. The other entry is equally weird. In July 2005 it shows the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency turned it over to Anniston. Well it seems the Cybersecurity Agency didn't form till years after 2005, maybe even as late as 2018. I found where they initially were called the National Protection and Programs Directorate, but even that didn't form till 2007. So I think this almost might be a clerical error. Or at least that is my hunch. I've ran a lot of FOIAS and have been studying the Range Grade FOIAS coming out of the CMP and seen patterns. So my hunch is whoever transcribed this over from the DODAAC sheet, made a clerical error on those two entries. But I can't prove it till I can get the FOIA officer to re-run the report and right now I'm having a hard time getting them to agree to that. I think I have a pretty good idea what the code should be from Sept 1998 to July 2005, I just need to be able to re-run it to prove or disprove my theory. But I'm still digging. I love to research and this is a fun new research project. :) |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/27/2024 2:06:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: cplnorton3]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Joescuba: Yes, it was. I was issued 1972437. Regards Man no way! The serial is 1972497. But man that is so close.... I could see confusing a 3 and 9. I will send you a private message. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/27/2024 2:26:45 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JSGlock34: The last 1911s were the Springfield Armory Custom Shop (SACS) produced guns using Caspian slides and parts. Vickers details these in his 1911 book (pics below). You can see the SACS markings at the front of the slide. The SACS model number is PC9114. In 2004 they purchased 275 SACS PC9114s. Springfield did make them commercially available afterwards but I don't ever recall seeing any advertised. I have seen owners post pics of their guns though (and one for sale on this board). More recently Pilot Mountain Arms offered a very similar build. https://preview.redd.it/9tb371kjkfi81.jpg?auto=webp&s=e90ab4e11b8815d951629adb0c2c8f3e337ee1e3 https://scontent-iad3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/29066471_1669365343151867_1544343761444667392_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dd63ad&_nc_ohc=zA1LWFPnDqYAX8Qp-LL&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-2.xx&oh=00_AfBJXnY1yKQO7ANOxGwpuIeePs9FbH0YzKSdHN5TpT1O_A&oe=65DC1247 Except for the adjustable (Bomar?) rear sight, I really like that gun. |
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Posted: 1/27/2024 3:31:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JSGlock34]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nick_Adams: Except for the adjustable (Bomar?) rear sight, I really like that gun. I admit I was surprised to see adjustable sights; conventional wisdom has always been that such sights have no place on a hard duty gun. I suspect the strict accuracy standards made an adjustable zero a desirable feature. Even when they briefly experimented with the STI .40 they retained the adjustable sights. I do think the 'buried' aspect of the Bomar sight lends it a bit more durability though. Also interesting to compare the Marine Corps 1911s with these guns. The Marines used fixed Novak sights whether on the MEUSOC guns built by PWS, the factory guns build by Springfield, the Kimber ICQB, or the Colt M45A1. They eschewed magwells and even pulled them off guns like the Springfield Professionals that entered service. Small differences in the details but different approaches. Interesting that they both made use of SACS. |
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Posted: 1/27/2024 4:05:15 PM EDT
[#42]
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NV, USA
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Posted: 1/27/2024 10:58:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: zodtgr8]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nick_Adams: Except for the adjustable (Bomar?) rear sight, I really like that gun. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nick_Adams: Except for the adjustable (Bomar?) rear sight, I really like that gun. The funny thing is that aside from the barrel (bushing vs bull barrel), the older TRP Operators (with short rails) were set up almost identically to the SACS Delta guns. Shame that they never capitalized on that experience to offer something like that. Originally Posted By JSGlock34: I admit I was surprised to see adjustable sights; conventional wisdom has always been that such sights have no place on a hard duty gun. I suspect the strict accuracy standards made an adjustable zero a desirable feature. Even when they briefly experimented with the STI .40 they retained the adjustable sights. I do think the 'buried' aspect of the Bomar sight lends it a bit more durability though. I want to say it was PatMac that mentioned it, but if my memory serves right, the adjustable sights came from the hostage rescue mission and being able to tailor their pistols to the duty loads. The other wild card was the use of compensators; while I forget which manufacturer made comps for delta 1911s, the story I remember was that they would wear out over time, and change the point of impact. Interesting to hear; I just wish I remember who wrote about it. It may have been from one of George Hand's articles on SOFREP. Originally Posted By cplnorton3: I am also pretty sure it has wear marks from wearing a Surefire 610. But I'm hoping to acquire one at some point to study and see if the marks are indeed from the 610. If you didn't want to pay a collector's premium for the real-deal 610/310, a lot of folks have had success with an airsoft clone by VFC. snagged one recently that I'm planning to take the range soon. It is fully compatible with lamps/bodies from other surefire handgun lights/forends and even 660 weapon lights. KC customs (known for his MEU SOC Clone parts) makes a slide stop that will allow you to mount it on any mil-spec 1911 frame. |
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Posted: 1/28/2024 12:02:43 AM EDT
[#44]
Awesome thread, thank you all for chiming in.
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Posted: 1/28/2024 6:45:40 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lilMAC25: Awesome thread, thank you all for chiming in. |
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Posted: 1/29/2024 12:38:34 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lilMAC25: Awesome thread, thank you all for chiming in. +1000 
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MT, USA
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Posted: 2/18/2024 4:53:39 PM EDT
[#47]
This needs a bump.
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Posted: 2/21/2024 2:36:47 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cplnorton3: I actually just acquired the pistol this week. I think like many I watched that youtube video and was like I would love to own that. Well by chance I met the owner through mutual friends and found out he was thinking of letting it go, so I was ecstatic when I was able to acquire it. Now I am hoping to research this more and see if I can add anymore provenance to the pistol. I did find one thing tearing it apart that he did miss. The Barrel has 3/ 94 electropeniled on it. I am also pretty sure it has wear marks from wearing a Surefire 610. But I'm hoping to acquire one at some point to study and see if the marks are indeed from the 610. The FOIA also has a really interesting connection in it to INSCOM and Ft Belvoir. But I'm hoping to document more. I'm trying to get a copy of the actual DODAAC codes in a FOIA. But yeah this whole thing is just really well done. http://i.imgur.com/DIW8UdBl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/OrQPkjel.jpg http://i.imgur.com/rkPP4lMl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/QGSBVPSl.jpg The Beavertail is so well fit that when it is engaged I don't think you could even fit a hair in the gap. http://i.imgur.com/PdD4APLl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/qSzs5cAl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/uCFZ16Al.jpg Also it looks like it has quite a few Magazine swap scars. I sure wish this stuff could talk. http://i.imgur.com/IUCYknVl.jpg That is just freaking awesome! That's something to treasure. |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 10:37:37 AM EDT
[#49]
@RogerRoger
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Posted: 2/21/2024 2:10:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dunderway]
[#50]
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