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Posted: 10/12/2023 10:47:01 PM EDT
I'm considering a USP 45 or an HK45, but the RSA's are $70 to $80. What's that all about?
Link Posted: 10/12/2023 11:20:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Dual springs, so spring cost basically doubles. Then they are assemblies, and the guide rods and "keepers" on each end have to be paid for, and then they have to be assembled by somebody too for a lot more employee costs. All these costs adds up fairly fast.
Link Posted: 10/12/2023 11:36:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bradd_D] [#2]
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Originally Posted By engineer61:
Dual springs, so spring cost basically doubles. Then they are assemblies, and the guide rods and "keepers" on each end have to be paid for, and then they have to be assembled by somebody too for a lot more employee costs. All these costs adds up fairly fast.
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They're really not that much more complicated than a Glock dual spring RSA. More expensive sure, but 5 times more expensive?
Link Posted: 10/13/2023 12:27:51 AM EDT
[#3]
Are there aftermarket rods that allow common cheaper springs?
Link Posted: 10/13/2023 7:50:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Slingblade2006] [#4]
Do you need the whole assembly?  The actual springs are cheap, $8 for the big one and $5 for the little one.  You need to remove the front clip and pull the cap to get the big one off.  Punch out the pin on the retainer for the small one.  It can be rebuilt.  MWGW Link to USP parts.  Click on Springs for price/order.
Link Posted: 10/13/2023 8:48:55 AM EDT
[#5]
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Originally Posted By Slingblade2006:
Do you need the whole assembly?  The actual springs are cheap, $8 for the big one and $5 for the little one.  You need to remove the front clip and pull the cap to get the big one off.  Punch out the pin on the retainer for the small one.  It can be rebuilt.  MWGW Link to USP parts.  Click on Springs for price/order.
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I did see that, but I didn't find a simple way to disassemble the rod.
Link Posted: 10/13/2023 9:15:33 AM EDT
[#6]
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Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
I did see that, but I didn't find a simple way to disassemble the rod.
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Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Originally Posted By Slingblade2006:
Do you need the whole assembly?  The actual springs are cheap, $8 for the big one and $5 for the little one.  You need to remove the front clip and pull the cap to get the big one off.  Punch out the pin on the retainer for the small one.  It can be rebuilt.  MWGW Link to USP parts.  Click on Springs for price/order.
I did see that, but I didn't find a simple way to disassemble the rod.

I thought there was a good YT video covering it, but it's gone.  I need to do my USP 45f.  I can take pictures or video when I complete it.  The hardest part is getting the c-clip off the front.  And it's not that hard, just small.  Work inside a plastic bag to keep from flying away.
Link Posted: 10/13/2023 3:15:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: patw] [#7]
I got this from Calguns.net:

2) You'll probably figure out that retaining the recoil spring back away from the end of the recoil rod so you can get to the clip is tough. You can use a vise or vise grips, but there is a simpler solution for this disassemble and re-assembly. Simply remove the slide from the USP, take out the recoil rod assembly, then remove the barrel, now reassemble the pistol by only installing the recoil rod and not the barrel. Then you can fiddle with it and use the slide and slide stop to hold back the spring tension and with the barrel removed you'll have better access to the spring "C" clip at the end of the barrel. You won't have to fight the spring pressure this way.

3) To install the clip on the rod once you have put the new spring in place and are using the slide to retain the spring pressure as above, another member had suggested using using a small socket that will just barely slide over the guide rod diameter but not as big as the clip to tap it on with a small hammer like you are tapping a cap back onto a bottle top.

The poster also recommends getting  a couple spare snap rings in case you break it.

I feel your pain op, the cost of VP9 recoil rod assemblies have doubled in the last couple years.
Link Posted: 10/13/2023 3:28:17 PM EDT
[#8]
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Originally Posted By patw:
I got this from Calguns.net:

2) You'll probably figure out that retaining the recoil spring back away from the end of the recoil rod so you can get to the clip is tough. You can use a vise or vise grips, but there is a simpler solution for this disassemble and re-assembly. Simply remove the slide from the USP, take out the recoil rod assembly, then remove the barrel, now reassemble the pistol by only installing the recoil rod and not the barrel. Then you can fiddle with it and use the slide and slide stop to hold back the spring tension and with the barrel removed you'll have better access to the spring "C" clip at the end of the barrel. You won't have to fight the spring pressure this way.

3) To install the clip on the rod once you have put the new spring in place and are using the slide to retain the spring pressure as above, another member had suggested using using a small socket that will just barely slide over the guide rod diameter but not as big as the clip to tap it on with a small hammer like you are tapping a cap back onto a bottle top.

The poster also recommends getting  a couple spare snap rings in case you break it.

I feel your pain op, the cost of VP9 recoil rod assemblies have doubled in the last couple years.
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Good info. Thanks.

I found some old threads from several years ago where RSA's were considerably cheaper.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 2:46:56 AM EDT
[#9]
The intervals on them is a lot longer compared to a glock.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 3:41:09 PM EDT
[#10]
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Originally Posted By Ivan1:
The intervals on them is a lot longer compared to a glock.
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IIRC, the recommended interval for HK RSA's is 10,000 to 15,000. The number thrown around for dual spring Glock RSA's is 5000. According to a Master Armorer at Glock, though, Glock has no official intervals. We'll go with 5000 for conversation's sake and easy math.

If I go 15,000 rounds on an HK, I'll spend $80. If I go 15,000 rounds on a Glock, I'll spend $45.


Link Posted: 10/15/2023 11:44:08 PM EDT
[#11]
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Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
IIRC, the recommended interval for HK RSA's is 10,000 to 15,000. The number thrown around for dual spring Glock RSA's is 5000. According to a Master Armorer at Glock, though, Glock has no official intervals. We'll go with 5000 for conversation's sake and easy math.

If I go 15,000 rounds on an HK, I'll spend $80. If I go 15,000 rounds on a Glock, I'll spend $45.


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I remember when the vp9 came out and people were asking hk for an interval cause they never set one. Finally hk said 10k but theres people with over 20k on them with no issues.
Link Posted: 10/25/2023 6:17:56 PM EDT
[#12]
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Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
IIRC, the recommended interval for HK RSA's is 10,000 to 15,000. The number thrown around for dual spring Glock RSA's is 5000. According to a Master Armorer at Glock, though, Glock has no official intervals. We'll go with 5000 for conversation's sake and easy math.

If I go 15,000 rounds on an HK, I'll spend $80. If I go 15,000 rounds on a Glock, I'll spend $45.


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Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Originally Posted By Ivan1:
The intervals on them is a lot longer compared to a glock.
IIRC, the recommended interval for HK RSA's is 10,000 to 15,000. The number thrown around for dual spring Glock RSA's is 5000. According to a Master Armorer at Glock, though, Glock has no official intervals. We'll go with 5000 for conversation's sake and easy math.

If I go 15,000 rounds on an HK, I'll spend $80. If I go 15,000 rounds on a Glock, I'll spend $45.




Glock slides are more massive than (some) HK slides, with a presumably much lower recoil velocity.  I would expect this lower recoil velocity to be much less abusive to the spring, all other things being equal (which they absolutely are NOT).  Much of the progressive deterioration and eventual failure of a spring is due to a surge wave propagating through it, if it is loaded quickly.  I don't think that a typical handgun slide's velocity is particularly abusive, not even the less-massive HK slides (I'm specifically referencing my P30 slide - I don't know how it compares to the slides of the guns mentioned in the OP).  

5000 rounds sounds completely wack.  It sounds like an arbitrary number that someone made up to placate the questioner.  I do not believe that a spring with only 5000 dynamic cycles is anywhere near the end of its life.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:54:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GaryT1776] [#13]
The dual recoil system in HK's USP line will easily go 15,000 rounds of non +P or +P+ ammo.

As others have said, the springs can be replaced but like most things HK it is a PITB to complete.  $80 for a RSA vs $4,500 worth of ammo to achieve the need for a new RSA is just the cost of living life to the fullest.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:58:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GaryT1776] [#14]
My uncle is still carrying the USP45 I bought in 1995 ... with the original everything (excluding sights ... on its 3rd set of NS).  I shudder to think of that gun's round count.  He, like I, records every round fired (log sheets for each gun).  If I remember, I'll ask at Thanksgiving what the total is now.  Even at 500 a year (extremely low annual round count) that gun would be at 14k.  I often shoot 300 rounds PER RANGE TRIP (and I go a minimum of once a week and as much as three times a week).  He doesn't shoot nearly as often as I, but it still has to be "up there".
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 11:07:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GaryT1776] [#15]
Forgot to mention ...

HK's decision to delete the dual RSA system in the USP Compact and HK45 lines was an error in my utterly worthless opinion.  I remember when the USP FS hit the market, and all of the clamor regarding the "30% reduction in recoil" because of the DS-RSA.  Then they dropped it in the USPC.  Frankly, the softest shooting 40SW (generally thought to be "snappy" by many) is my USP40 FS. I attribute it to the DS-RSA and slide mass since the bore axis is high and should be "flippy".  Its a pleasure to shoot.

Bradd,
Given the option between a USP45 and HK45 I would take the USP every time.  The only "real world disadvantage" with the USP line is the light rail.  I add GG&G adapters, but finding a holster to fit is problematic.  Otherwise, change the tiny mag paddles out for HK45 paddles and you'll be very well served.

*NOTE* I have owned countless USP full size, USP compact, HK45 full size, and HK45 compact in 9mm, 40SW, 45ACP nearly continuously since 1995. I've owned standard, match, expert, and elite models. I've had carbon and stainless slide models. If I had to own one handgun it would be a HK (either a P30, P30SK or USP45 variant) with me leaning toward a USP45 Expert.  Given the option for two handguns it would be an easy choice: P30SK in 9mm and USP45 Expert.  There isnt' anything I would ever need or want to do with a handgun that those two wouldn't accomplish with aplomb.
Link Posted: 2/4/2024 3:09:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Slingblade2006] [#16]
I just received my order of recoil spring parts from Midwest Gun Works.  Below is what I ordered/paid.  

929191 H&K USP Recoil Spring Retainer Snap Ring $5.00
214721 H&K USP Front Recoil Spring Retainer $9.24
214822 H&K USP 45 Recoil Spring $8.00
214843 H&K USP 45 Recoil Rod Buffer Spring $5.00

As expected the snap ring was the most difficult part to remove and install.  Instead of using the slide to hold the recoil spring back to work I put the recoil spring in my vise and put a zip tie around the guide to hold the spring down.  I didn’t find there was enough room to work while it was still in the slide.  

I then used a small screwdriver and small set of plier jaws to spread the snap ring off the guide.  This took a few attempts but I was able to work it off.  The below picture shows the orientation of the tools.  

Installation was the reverse but I did not use any tools on the new snap ring.  I started on one side of the guide and forced it on using my thumb nail.  Ouch.  The socket method did not work (for me) as the guide is stepped on the backside of the snap ring.

The whole process did not take too long.  Maybe 20 min.  Probably be quicker now that I have a method.  Also I don’t think snap ring pliers would work unless you got a small one that you could file down the head to make it fit the tiny gap of the snap ring.  Maybe some jeweler pliers.  Idk.  

My USP 45f is about 25 years old and well north of 10k rounds.  The old spring was considerably shorter than the new one.  Also I did not replace the smaller spring as the current one still seemed very stiff.  I did purchase one to have JIC.  

Pic of recoil spring in the vise.
Attachment Attached File


Pic of orientation of screwdriver and plier jaw used to spread old snap ring apart.
Attachment Attached File


Pic of new spring (left) vs old spring (right).
Attachment Attached File


Pic of assembled recoil spring (left) and old parts on the right.  
Attachment Attached File


Link Posted: 2/5/2024 5:46:31 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Slingblade2006:
I just received my order of recoil spring parts from Midwest Gun Works.  Below is what I ordered/paid.  

929191 H&K USP Recoil Spring Retainer Snap Ring $5.00
214721 H&K USP Front Recoil Spring Retainer $9.24
214822 H&K USP 45 Recoil Spring $8.00
214843 H&K USP 45 Recoil Rod Buffer Spring $5.00

As expected the snap ring was the most difficult part to remove and install.  Instead of using the slide to hold the recoil spring back to work I put the recoil spring in my vise and put a zip tie around the guide to hold the spring down.  I didn’t find there was enough room to work while it was still in the slide.  

I then used a small screwdriver and small set of plier jaws to spread the snap ring off the guide.  This took a few attempts but I was able to work it off.  The below picture shows the orientation of the tools.  

Installation was the reverse but I did not use any tools on the new snap ring.  I started on one side of the guide and forced it on using my thumb nail.  Ouch.  The socket method did not work (for me) as the guide is stepped on the backside of the snap ring.

The whole process did not take too long.  Maybe 20 min.  Probably be quicker now that I have a method.  Also I don’t think snap ring pliers would work unless you got a small one that you could file down the head to make it fit the tiny gap of the snap ring.  Maybe some jeweler pliers.  Idk.  

My USP 45f is about 25 years old and well north of 10k rounds.  The old spring was considerably shorter than the new one.  Also I did not replace the smaller spring as the current one still seemed very stiff.  I did purchase one to have JIC.  

Pic of recoil spring in the vise.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/223527/IMG_1927_jpeg-3118155.JPG

Pic of orientation of screwdriver and plier jaw used to spread old snap ring apart.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/223527/IMG_1928_jpeg-3118156.JPG

Pic of new spring (left) vs old spring (right).
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/223527/IMG_1929_jpeg-3118168.JPG

Pic of assembled recoil spring (left) and old parts on the right.  
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/223527/IMG_1931_jpeg-3118163.JPG

View Quote


Cycle the new spring 3 to 10 times, then disassemble and compare to the old spring.

Most springs will take some amount of set, the overwhelming majority of which is accomplished after a mere 3 compressions.
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